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Kobe Bryant slinging homophobic slur during nationally televised NBA game

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Ollie Pooch

In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Souldriver said:
Offending anybody is fine, but don't cry when you get called out for it.
It's people's choice to be offended, though.
My reaction to this situation is 'clearly he's a dickhead' but I don't feign outrage and act personally offended at him using the word he did. I couldn't give a shit what Kobe Bryant thinks of gay people.
 
I'm offended by the continued use of the word "homophobic" to describe pretty much anything the GLBT community considers offensive. It's just silly, and it makes me have less sympathy for their cause.

Personally, I don't use those words, but I wouldn't care if someone did under that context, where it's clearly not aimed at offending a gay person. None of the gay people I work with pretty much on a daily basis are such sensitive flowers either, so I don't think there would be much of a ruckus in my studio if somebody did use such a word in that context.
 

Orayn

Member
Joates said:
Yes, this is nothing new PCers have been winning for years now. God forbid we ever offend anyone. Happy holidays everybody.
Yeah, telling someone they sound like an insensitive jerk is always motivated by hand-holding, kumbaya-singing PCism.
 
Devolution said:
Why are you using them as a measurement of what is acceptable language? There are some words that target women that I don't necessarily have a problem with, but I don't let my preferences dictate how other women should feel about gendered language. And if those women are offended I could see why. I shouldn't be used as a cutoff point just because I happen to be a woman not offended. If anything you're just appealing to the people who want to use said language with "express permission" of part of a minority group. It's still not cool, I'm sorry. Use it around those friends but don't use their opinion on the word as a justification to use it everywhere.

I'm not saying its justifiable because some people are okay with it. I only said that because your post made it seem like every gay out there is offended by it which is not true.
 
Pristine_Condition said:
I'm offended by the continued use of the word "homophobic" to describe pretty much anything the GLBT community considers offensive. It's just silly, and it makes me have less sympathy for their cause.

Personally, I don't use those words, but I wouldn't care if someone did under that context, where it's clearly not aimed at offending a gay person. None of the gay people I work with pretty much on a daily basis are such sensitive flowers either, so I don't think there would be much of a ruckus in my studio if somebody did use such a word in that context.
Yet that word covers all things that are anti-gay. Funny how that is...
 
Joates said:
lol. Thats a funny one. And if someone doesnt care that you take offense to something and goes harder on you, dont go crying, grow some thicker skin.
I'm not crying. After all, like you say: words are just words.

I just like to think that it's better for people to realize that some words are very offensive to entire groups of people, and that -if they want to- they can chose to not use those words in the future if it wasn't their intent to insult those groups of people in the first place.

I'm not asking for the physical ban of insulting words out of this world, and the prosecution of the people who use them. Shocking, I know!
 

Al-ibn Kermit

Junior Member
Devolution said:
No there isn't. You have gay posters in this very thread telling you how upset it makes them, and yet you and Cupcakes are pulling this shit.
And that makes kobe stupid, I'm not denying that. I believed that before today anyways. I'm just saying you can't use one example of what he said when pissed off at the ref to label him as homophobic or not.

As far as the subjectivity argument, I would get more bothered by hearing certain slurs than others.
 

Joates

Banned
Pristine_Condition said:
I'm offended by the continued use of the word "homophobic" to describe pretty much anything the GLBT community considers offensive. It's just silly, and it makes me have less sympathy for their cause.

Personally, I don't use those words, but I wouldn't care if someone did under that context, where it's clearly not aimed at offending a gay person. None of the gay people I work with pretty much on a daily basis are such sensitive flowers either, so I don't think there would be much of a ruckus in my studio if somebody did use such a word in that context.

Dont bother with that argument its been tried and youll just beat your head against a wall for hours as the others tell you context doesnt matter at all :lol right
 

Dr. Malik

FlatAss_
julls said:
It's people's choice to be offended, though.
My reaction to this situation is 'clearly he's a dickhead' but I don't feign outrage and act personally offended at him using the word he did. I couldn't give a shit what Kobe Bryant thinks of gay people.

I agree with this but then there is also this

ChocolateCupcakes said:
You would be surprised how many fans he has.

Which is what makes it wrong.
 
Joates said:
Dont bother with that argument its been tried and youll just beat your head against a wall for hours as the others tell you context doesnt matter at all :lol right
You are just the most butthurt user in this thread. You sure you haven't been power bottoming some guy while talking to us?
 

Mumei

Member
Pristine_Condition said:
I'm offended by the continued use of the word "homophobic" to describe pretty much anything the GLBT community considers offensive. It's just silly, and it makes me have less sympathy for their cause.

Personally, I don't use those words, but I wouldn't care if someone did under that context, where it's clearly not aimed at offending a gay person. None of the gay people I work with pretty much on a daily basis are such sensitive flowers either, so I don't think there would be much of a ruckus in my studio if somebody did use such a word in that context.

Why does it offend you?
 

Ollie Pooch

In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Pristine_Condition said:
I'm offended by the continued use of the word "homophobic" to describe pretty much anything the GLBT community considers offensive. It's just silly, and it makes me have less sympathy for their cause.

Personally, I don't use those words, but I wouldn't care if someone did under that context, where it's clearly not aimed at offending a gay person. None of the gay people I work with pretty much on a daily basis are such sensitive flowers either, so I don't think there would be much of a ruckus in my studio if somebody did use such a word in that context.
Please don't judge the gay 'community' (I hate this term) by a few easily-outraged overly vocal members.
 

Plumbob

Member
Joates said:
Only the first 3 words you listed actually do have other definitions...

fag - act as a servant for older boys
faggott - meatball
faggot - an archaic English unit applied to various-sized collections of sticks
faggot - A burning or smouldering piece of firewood;

How do any of these alternate definitions make sense in context?
 

Joates

Banned
Souldriver said:
I'm not crying. After all, like you say: words are just words.

I just like to think that it's better for people to realize that some words are very offensive to entire groups of people, and that -if they want to- they can chose to not use those words in the future if it wasn't their intent to insult those groups of people in the first place.

I'm not asking for the physical ban of insulting words out of this world, and the prosecution of the people who use them. Shocking, I know!

I agree with you.
 
How much of gaf is from the europe? In the US faggots are assholes, so Kobe was saying "your an asshole" or w/e to the coach, not calling him a homosexual
 

Gaborn

Member
Why are some people so desperate to justify using a word like "faggot"? Is it so hard to NOT use it?

Advance Alarm - Your dictionary must be different than mine. Faggot has a clearly defined meaning and a long history OF that meaning.
 

Joates

Banned
Plumbob said:
fag - act as a servant for older boys
faggott - meatball
faggot - an archaic English unit applied to various-sized collections of sticks
faggot - A burning or smouldering piece of firewood;

How do any of these alternate definitions make sense in context?

How does a "gay person" fit the context?
 
Joates said:
I agree with you.
fireworks.gif

CAN THIS BE OVER NOW
 
Advance_Alarm said:
How much of gaf is from the europe? In the US faggots are assholes, so Kobe was saying "your an asshole" or w/e to the coach, not calling him a homosexual
In the US faggot is most definitely not 'asshole'
 

SolKane

Member
Synth_floyd said:
He didn't mean "faggot." What he meant was "I am very frustrated right now and am venting that verbally using a powerful word." Obviously that wouldn't sound right, nor would calling the guy a "jerk" or "loser" or "douche bag," etc. so in his moment of emotions he happened to pick the word "faggot" because it's a strong word, not because he was trying to slur gay people.

...

So I guess it's just kind of bad luck for Kobe that he happened to use that word when he was pissed off. He should apologize (which he already did), just pay the fine, and use it as an example in the future for equality and as a teachable moment, etc, etc.

Incidentally I think your post suggests the root of this matter. The larger problem is that individuals are taught at an early age that this form of language is acceptable. Using "faggot" under the connotation you describe, as one of frustration, is what I would consider normative language behavior for a certain set of speakers: American males. I'd say there's some truth to this, considering how young boys communicate with one another. Part of what they learn as speakers is that slurs have a functional importance, which is to express some particular emotion. Studies even show that swear words are as much as a reflexive behavior as the patellar reflex. They learn unconsciously that these words connote strong emotion, and suggest frustration, anger, etc.

But part of growing as an individual is understanding and being critical of your own behaviors. When we look at a word like "faggot" - we must consider not only the context of its use, but also its literal meaning. Well, its literal meaning is one that has shifted over years of this kind of behavior I'm talking about . The origins of faggot as a slur, are not entirely known (some linguists posit that it's related to the "fag" which indicates a younger term boy in British schools, but that does not explicate why "faggot" is not extensively used as a slur in the UK; incidentally the shifting of meaning of "gay" is also unknown). But as the word has been used, there's been a remarkable shift in connotative and denotative use. We know that it modern standard American English it means exclusively: slur for a male homosexual. There's little debating that - words shift in meaning as one of the many patterns and facets of language. We can also consider the larger context of 20th century social movements, and the more public face of homosexuals in the US in the last few decades. As social changes occur, so also do linguistic changes.

Therefore, there's really little credibility to these sorts of arguments. Speakers know what they are saying when they say faggot - they understand the literal meaning. They must surely know, that words are regulated not solely by their contexts. There has been a shift in the word "faggot" - which is the one we all understand it to be. Whether there's some greater shift, suggesting that "faggot" can denote something undesirable, well I would argue that reflects a greater marginalization of homosexuals via linguistic apparatus. Proponents of such views are being willfully ignorant. Frankly there's no evidence that would suggest that "faggot" is undergoing a change in meaning, rather, the case seems to be that it's becoming an increasingly powerful tool of hatred and repression.
 
Gaborn said:
Why are some people so desperate to justify using a word like "faggot"? Is it so hard to NOT use it?

Advance Alarm - Your dictionary must be different than mine. Faggot has a clearly defined meaning and a long history OF that meaning.

I'm not justifying it if you are referring to me. People as a whole need time to get over using the word. Rome wasn't built in a day, etc.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
PhoenixDark said:
Sorry, but I don't give a shit what athletes say on the court, field, etc. I've played enough sports not to care, and said things I wouldn't say anywhere else.
Nailed it. Heat of the moment.
 

Dr. Malik

FlatAss_
Gaborn said:
Why are some people so desperate to justify using a word like "faggot"? Is it so hard to NOT use it?

Well its kind of funny/sad how some people here who probably have never been discriminated in their life like to say 'its just a word'. Them bitches are lucky and will probably never understand.
 

Joates

Banned
Gaborn said:
Why are some people so desperate to justify using a word like "faggot"? Is it so hard to NOT use it?

Advance Alarm - Your dictionary must be different than mine. Faggot has a clearly defined meaning and a long history OF that meaning.

No words should be banned from usage. Just because a word offends people doesnt mean it should never be used. Its a word. A label. Another word would fill its place and everything would continue with the status quo until the underlying ideas about the groups are changed. Just my opinion.
 

Koodo

Banned
How to test if the usual contrarians in Gaf are wrong: use analogy »» white basketball player insulting the referee with the slur "you useless nigger!" »» projected outcome »» the rolling of heads and mass rage.

Of course, this would be in many ways a positive reaction. It's not so much the context but the fact that slurs like this should not be allowed to be perpetuated; if they continue to be perpetuated, they continue to exist for people to use them maliciously. The word "nigger" has been stigmatized to such an extent that it's no longer commonplace in public, and that's a good thing.

Since every single one of you would take offence at the prior hypothetical situation (and you are a hilarious liar if you say otherwise), it is hypocritical to be inconsistent with these ideals and propose "the faggot word was just lightly used, using this slur in public to an audience of millions is OK because he didn't mean it!"

No, stop being ignorant.
 

Mumei

Member
Joates said:
Dont bother with that argument its been tried and youll just beat your head against a wall for hours as the others tell you context doesnt matter at all :lol right

I don't know why you insist on lying. Do you have some sort of compulsion to lie? I mean, at first I thought it was just an honest mistake on your part, but then you continued saying the lie after being corrected. Maybe you just haven't been paying attention, and you aren't actually a liar.

People said that the context doesn't matter in the specific examples you gave. You gave an example of someone calling someone a faggot and meaning it as a slur and someone calling someone a faggot and not meaning it as a slur but as a general insult. In those situations, context doesn't significantly change anything.

They didn't say that context never matters, and actually gave you examples where context would be relevant (with regards to Huck Finn / Tom Sawyer). Or spindashing gave an example where context mattered - where he and his friends, as young black men, feel comfortable using the n-word around one another. Similarly, many younger gay people feel comfortable with casual / ironic use of fag / faggot within their social group.

But, hey, feel free to keep lying and saying that people are being mean and arguing that context doesn't matter.
 
SolKane said:
Incidentally I think your post suggests the root of this matter. The larger problem is that individuals are taught at an early age that this form of language is acceptable. Using "faggot" under the connotation you describe, as one of frustration, is what I would consider normative language behavior for a certain set of speakers: American males. I'd say there's some truth to this, considering how young boys communicate with one another. Part of what they learn as speakers is that slurs have a functional importance, which is to express some particular emotion. Studies even show that swear words are as much as a reflexive behavior as the patellar reflex. They learn unconsciously that these words connote strong emotion, and suggest frustration, anger, etc.

But part of growing as an individual is understanding and being critical of your own behaviors. When we look at a word like "faggot" - we must consider not only the context of its use, but also its literal meaning. Well, its literal meaning is one that has shifted over years of this kind of behavior I'm talking about . The origins of faggot as a slur, are not entirely known (some linguists posit that it's related to the "fag" which indicates a younger term boy in British schools, but that does not explicate why "faggot" is not extensively used as a slur in the UK; incidentally the shifting of meaning of "gay" is also unknown). But as the word has been used, there's been a remarkable shift in connotative and denotative use. We know that it modern standard American English it means exclusively: slur for a male homosexual. There's little debating that - words shift in meaning as one of the many patterns and facets of language. We can also consider the larger context of 20th century social movements, and the more public face of homosexuals in the US in the last few decades. As social changes occur, so also do linguistic changes.

Therefore, there's really little credibility to these sorts of arguments. Speakers know what they are saying when they say faggot - they understand the literal meaning. They must surely know, that words are regulated not solely by their contexts. There has been a shift in the word "faggot" - which is the one we all understand it to be. Whether there's some greater shift, suggesting that "faggot" can denote something undesirable, well I would argue that reflects a greater marginalization of homosexuals via linguistic apparatus. Proponents of such views are being willfully ignorant. Frankly there's no evidence that would suggest that "faggot" is undergoing a change in meaning, rather, the case seems to be that it's becoming an increasingly powerful tool of hatred and repression.

I am going to quote this to show how much I love this post.
 

Joates

Banned
Marius_ said:
Well its kind of funny/sad how some people here who probably have never been discriminated in their life like to say 'its just a word'. Them bitches are lucky and will probably never understand.

Yep cause people are never harassed for anything under the sun that makes them different..
 
UrokeJoe said:
Michael Jordan never did that. Another +1 on the court for him.

you clearly dont know jordan, a very quick google search i found

sports illustrated said:
As a leader Jordan proved more tormentor than mentor. Many Washington players got the business end of a Jordan harangue, but he designated second-year forward Kwame Brown as the whipping boy, referring to him, as reported by The Washington Post, as a "flaming faggot." A source told SI that Jordan ritually reduced Brown to tears in front of the team.
link
 
ZephyrFate said:
SolKane, you carry the honor of the best post in this thread.

Not saying I disagree but seriously?

SolKane said:
Incidentally I think your post suggests the root of this matter. The larger problem is that individuals are taught at an early age that this form of language is acceptable. Using "faggot" under the connotation you describe, as one of frustration, is what I would consider normative language behavior for a certain set of speakers: American males. I'd say there's some truth to this, considering how young boys communicate with one another. Part of what they learn as speakers is that slurs have a functional importance, which is to express some particular emotion. Studies even show that swear words are as much as a reflexive behavior as the patellar reflex. They learn unconsciously that these words connote strong emotion, and suggest frustration, anger, etc.

But part of growing as an individual is understanding and being critical of your own behaviors. When we look at a word like "faggot" - we must consider not only the context of its use, but also its literal meaning. Well, its literal meaning is one that has shifted over years of this kind of behavior I'm talking about . The origins of faggot as a slur, are not entirely known (some linguists posit that it's related to the "fag" which indicates a younger term boy in British schools, but that does not explicate why "faggot" is not extensively used as a slur in the UK; incidentally the shifting of meaning of "gay" is also unknown). But as the word has been used, there's been a remarkable shift in connotative and denotative use. We know that it modern standard American English it means exclusively: slur for a male homosexual. There's little debating that - words shift in meaning as one of the many patterns and facets of language. We can also consider the larger context of 20th century social movements, and the more public face of homosexuals in the US in the last few decades. As social changes occur, so also do linguistic changes.

Therefore, there's really little credibility to these sorts of arguments. Speakers know what they are saying when they say faggot - they understand the literal meaning. They must surely know, that words are regulated not solely by their contexts. There has been a shift in the word "faggot" - which is the one we all understand it to be. Whether there's some greater shift, suggesting that "faggot" can denote something undesirable, well I would argue that reflects a greater marginalization of homosexuals via linguistic apparatus. Proponents of such views are being willfully ignorant. Frankly there's no evidence that would suggest that "faggot" is undergoing a change in meaning, rather, the case seems to be that it's becoming an increasingly powerful tool of hatred and repression.

He pretty much said what others have been saying and what you were so defensive about.
 
Joates said:
Yep cause people are never harassed for anything under the sun that makes them different..
there's a difference between harassing someone for something they cannot change versus things like their character, clothing style, personality, actions, etc.

ChocolateCupcake: I'm pretty sure you guys were arguing that because faggot has other small meanings that its greater ties to its sexual connotations can be swept away. SolKane argued against that.
 

Plumbob

Member
Joates said:
How does a "gay person" fit the context?

Because "gay person" was meant to be an insult. It evokes stereotypes of femininity, flamboyance, and submissiveness that aren't desirable in a hyper-masculine context. Of course Kobe didn't think this through before he used it, he just reached into his grab-bag of insults. The question is why the word was in his grab-bag of insults in the first place.

Think about it. You could call a woman an asshole, but you wouldn't call her a faggot.
 

Joates

Banned
Mumei said:
I don't know why you insist on lying. Do you have some sort of compulsion to lie? I mean, at first I thought it was just an honest mistake on your part, but then you continued saying the lie after being corrected. Maybe you just haven't been paying attention, and you aren't actually a liar.

People said that the context doesn't matter in the specific examples you gave. You gave an example of someone calling someone a faggot and meaning it as a slur and someone calling someone a faggot and not meaning it as a slur but as a general insult. In those situations, context doesn't significantly change anything.

They didn't say that context never matters, and actually gave you examples where context would be relevant (with regards to Huck Finn / Tom Sawyer). Or spindashing gave an example where context mattered - where he and his friends, as young black men, feel comfortable using the n-word around one another. Similarly, many younger gay people feel comfortable with casual / ironic use of fag / faggot within their social group.

But, hey, feel free to keep lying and saying that people are being mean and arguing that context doesn't matter.

You must have missed a lot of posts in the thread. People were saying context can never make the word mean any less that a gay slur. I disagree. That makes me a liar?
 

Ollie Pooch

In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Marius_ said:
Well its kind of funny/sad how some people here who probably have never been discriminated in their life like to say 'its just a word'. Them bitches are lucky and will probably never understand.
I've been called a 'faggot'. Many times. I don't care. I still understand it isn't 'just a word' - it carries heavy connotations. But why anyone cares about some athlete (who they probably didn't give a shit about until now) saying it is beyond me. He was disciplined for it, and issued an apology - what more do people want?
 
julls said:
I've been called a 'faggot'. Many times. I don't care. I still understand it isn't 'just a word' - it carries heavy connotations. But why anyone cares about some athlete (who they probably didn't give a shit about until now) saying it is beyond me. He was disciplined for it, and issued an apology - what more do people want?
Using some cash to I dunno, make a commercial or donate to a LGBT organization or something. Get the message across that it's not acceptable to use that word in any context.
 
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