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[Srsly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jgxlPfSr-0&feature=player_embedded

Where was the outrage?

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

ChocolateCupcake: I'm pretty sure you guys were arguing that because faggot has other small meanings that its greater ties to its sexual connotations can be swept away. SolKane argued against that.

I take all that back about it not still having sexual connotations. I stopped arguing that awhile ago, since it does make sense that people know what it means but still uses it. I just don't think everyone uses it in purposeful and hateful manner.

 

[Joates]

Because "gay person" was meant to be an insult. It evokes stereotypes of femininity, flamboyance, and submissiveness that aren't desirable in a hyper-masculine context. Of course Kobe didn't think this through before he used it, he just reached into his grab-bag of insults. The question is why the word was in his grab-bag in the first place.

We have went around this circular argument a couple times. The word was in his grab bag perhaps because for him its synonymous with other insults (not related to sexual orientation ) and he said it without thinking. SHOCKING I KNOW.

 

[Opiate]

Because I hear the word "faggot" probably at least 20 times a day and rarely, if ever, hear the other.

Well then clearly that means the N word is more spiteful! I'm not necessarily arguing with your anecdotal notion that you hear "faggot" more often than "nigger." It is entirely possible you do and I have no way to disprove that. Instead, let's assume you are correct. I want you to consider two possible conclusions, here:

1) You hear "Faggot" more often because its not a harmful word and/or is significantly less harmful. Just like we hear "is" 100 times a day because nobody considers that verb offensive.

2) You hear "Faggot" more often because -- despite its harmful tone -- it is considered socially acceptable to be bigoted against homosexuals, but it is no longer considered similarly acceptable to be bigoted against black people.

You have clearly jumped to the first conclusion. I'd like to suggest that the correct explanation may be the second one.

 

[ZephyrFate]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jgxlPfSr-0&feature=player_embedded

Where was the outrage?

Vulgarity and pejorative terms are sometimes not one in the same.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

and its probably the truth

Lol please piss off with this. I'm black and have probably been called just about every name in the book and sometimes even by my own race. Just last semester I pretty much had a teacher stare me in the face and assume I couldn't do basic math, probably because I wasn't Indian like him.

The thing is, is that I don't dwell on it and I prove them wrong and go about my life.

 

[UrokeJoe]

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me might as well of been a cave painting. Because this is the future and my feelings matter more.

 

[Joates]

Lol please piss off with this. I'm black and have probably been called just about every name in the book and sometimes even by my own race. Just last semester I pretty much had a teacher stare me in the face and assume I couldn't do basic math.

The thing is, is that I don't dwell on it and I prove them wrong and go about my life.

But how do you not just go sit in the corner and cry yourself to sleep from all the pain. Or could the words possibly effect different people differently? Unpossible.

 

[Srsly]

Vulgarity and pejorative terms are sometimes not one in the same.

Faggot is used pejoratively in both cases. What is the difference?

 

[Crumpet Trumpet]

Lol please piss off with this. I'm black and have probably been called just about every name in the book and sometimes even by my own race. Just last semester I pretty much had a teacher stare me in the face and assume I couldn't do basic math, probably because I wasn't Indian like him.

The thing is, is that I don't dwell on it and I prove them wrong and go about my life.

You don't care when people are rude to you. Why do you care so much when other people care though?!

 

[MIMIC]

Vulgarity and pejorative terms are sometimes not one in the same.

*notsureifserious.jpg*

 

[blame space]

You don't care when people are rude to you. Why do you care so much when other people care though?!

caring about actual issues is different than caring about the common usage of words that happen to be associated with the issue

 

[Crumpet Trumpet]

caring about actual issues is different than caring about the common usage of words that happen to be associated with the issue

what in the actual fuck

headache

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

In this thread, people who have never been to a competitive sporting event.

or played an online FPS?


At this point in time, in American culture, homophobic slurs are often used as insults.
Not saying any of this is acceptable though, but I don't think it should be taken with such offense. Kobe apologized and is getting fined $100,000.

That said no matter how many people call Kobe a rapist or a homophobe he will still crush your heart with venomous game winning shots.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

You don't care when people are rude to you. Why do you care so much when other people care though?!

You obviously haven't been reading what I have been saying because what he said was a bit insensitive and I could understand people being hurt by this but you can't expect to snap your fingers and noone would use that word anymore. Especially since other words like nigger and chink are still being used.

I'm just saying its a process.

caring about actual issues is different than caring about the common usage of words that happen to be associated with the issue

Nicely put also.

 

[UrokeJoe]

caring about actual issues is different than caring about the common usage of words that happen to be associated with the issue

Sums up my feelings.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

what in the actual fuck

headache

There's bigger issues than freaking out about Kobe Bryant saying 'faggot' to a ref.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Faggot is used pejoratively in both cases. What is the difference?

Did he say faggot? I couldn't really tell what he said, it sounded muffled. If he did, then yeah, there should be uproar about that.

 

[Crumpet Trumpet]

You obviously haven't been reading what I have been saying because what he said was a bit insensitive and I could understand people being hurt by this but you can't expect to snap your fingers and noone would use that word anymore. Especially since other words like nigger and chink are still being used.

I'm just saying its a process.

So what exactly is the argument here?!

Here's what I gather, in summation:
It's a shame the word faggot is tossed around willy-nilly, but Kobe probably had no ill-intent. Hopefully as society and gay rights progresses, situations like this will happen less regularly.

Errbody happy?

Spoiler

spurs 2011 nba champions

 

[Devolution]

There's bigger issues than freaking out about Kobe Bryant saying 'faggot' to a ref.

There's bigger issues than telling people not to get freaked out about Kobe Bryant saying 'faggot' to a ref. You're on a forum. People discuss shit, some people get heated. Most people "freaking out" are doing so at the forum goers who apparently have no problem throwing "faggot" around. News at 11.

 

[Ilúvatar]

Just read about this a few minutes ago...He needs to be suspended by the league, no questions asked.

Sarcasm I hope

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

/thread

 

[Joates]

There's bigger issues than telling people not to get freaked out about Kobe Bryant saying 'faggot' to a ref. You're on a forum. People discuss shit, some people get heated. Most people "freaking out" are doing so at the forum goers who apparently have no problem throwing "faggot" around. News at 11.

nvm

 

[Plumbob]

We have went around this circular argument a couple times. The word was in his grab bag perhaps because for him its synonymous with other insults (not related to sexual orientation ) and he said it without thinking. SHOCKING I KNOW.

Of course the fact that he was able to use the word so easily makes the problem worse, not more excusable. Kobe's usage of the term suggests that he thinks that calling someone gay is AS insulting, but also as acceptable, as calling them an asshole or any other word out of the grab bag.

 

[SolKane]

SolKane, you carry the honor of the best post in this thread.

Thanks.. my linguistics degree finally comes in handy.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

So what exactly is the argument here?!

Here's what I gather, in summation:
It's a shame the word faggot is tossed around willy-nilly, but Kobe probably had no ill-intent. Hopefully as society and gay rights progresses, situations like this will happen less regularly.

Errbody happy?

Pretty much. And I'm confident that society will grow.

 

[Devolution]

Would that imply you have no problem throwing "faggot" around?

What are you trying to imply because you're failing at it.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

There's bigger issues than telling people not to get freaked out about Kobe Bryant saying 'faggot' to a ref. You're on a forum. People discuss shit, some people get heated. Most people "freaking out" are doing so at the forum goers who apparently have no problem throwing "faggot" around. News at 11.

I was clarifying what i thought blame space meant by his post. But thanks for the explanation.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

There's bigger issues than telling people not to get freaked out about Kobe Bryant saying 'faggot' to a ref. You're on a forum. People discuss shit, some people get heated. Most people "freaking out" are doing so at the forum goers who apparently have no problem throwing "faggot" around. News at 11.

Wtf? You pretty much made your own argument invalid and a big waste.

 

[travisbickle]

Lol please piss off with this. I'm black and have probably been called just about every name in the book and sometimes even by my own race. Just last semester I pretty much had a teacher stare me in the face and assume I couldn't do basic math, probably because I wasn't Indian like him.

The thing is, is that I don't dwell on it and I prove them wrong and go about my life.

That makes you sound racist.

 

[Joates]

What are you trying to imply because you're failing at it.

Read it wrong, but if your implying that myself or cupcakes goes around throwin the word faggot around, I think youre sadly mistaken.

 

[Joates]

Of course the fact that he was able to use the word so easily makes the problem worse, not more excusable. Kobe's usage of the term suggests that he thinks that calling someone gay is AS insulting, but also as acceptable, as calling them an asshole or any other word out of the grab bag.

No it doesnt.

 

[Devolution]

Read it wrong, but if your implying that myself or cupcakes goes around throwin the word faggot around, I think youre sadly mistaken.

Fine you're trying to defend the use of it, which isn't much better to be quite honest.

The last couple pages:

"but faggot can mean like just asshole why so mad"
"faggot is still a slur in that instance, why not say asshole instead of faggot"
"no words can evolve or have different meanings!"

Over and over

 

[Dr. Malik]

Lol please piss off with this. I'm black and have probably been called just about every name in the book and sometimes even by my own race. Just last semester I pretty much had a teacher stare me in the face and assume I couldn't do basic math, probably because I wasn't Indian like him.

The thing is, is that I don't dwell on it and I prove them wrong and go about my life.

So was my comment just aimed at you? I don't think so. And I am glad you are more tolerant to your issues than I am to mine. But justifying the usage of the word 'faggot' as just a word is ignorant and that ignorance must come from somewhere.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

That makes you sound racist.

No not, really. I didn't say that without fact. He always gave his Indian students more time which was pretty much confirmed by my class and some Indians themselves. And he constantly says how the Americans school system doesn't teach us correctly and that the Indian system is better and they have a bit of an advantage and how he would be surprised if we get some of the stuff he says.

 

[Monocle]

But how do you not just go sit in the corner and cry yourself to sleep from all the pain. Or could the words possibly effect different people differently? Unpossible.

Stop trolling. "Faggot is a hurtful term with a well established history as a slur against gays, therefore it's wrong to use it as an insult" obviously does not equate to the ridiculous bullshit strawman you just pulled out your ass. Your arguments in this thread are like lecturing someone on the history of the high-five when they complain you've slapped them in the face. You're being willfully ignorant.

 

[Joates]

Fine you're trying to defend the use of it, which isn't much better to be quite honest.

The last couple pages:

"but faggot can mean like just asshole why so mad"
"faggot is still a slur in that instance, why not say asshole instead of faggot"
"no words can evolve or have different meanings!"

Over and over

Faggot can mean asshole to some people, go on refusing to believe it.

Because the words are synonymous to person saying them, go on refusing to believe it.

Words can evolve and have different meanings....

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

So was my comment just aimed at you? I don't think so. And I am glad you are more tolerant to your issues than I am to mine. But justifying the usage of the word 'faggot' as just a word is ignorant and that ignorance must come from somewhere.

I would assume it was aimed at me since you quoted me twice about it. And again I never, ever justified its usage.

 

[Instro]

Too be honest I dont care what athletes say on the court or the field, it doesn't really matter what someone says in the heat of the moment. Im sure we've all said far worse when playing sports or even a video game for that matter.

 

[Monocle]

Faggot can mean asshole to some people, go on refusing to believe it.

Because the words are synonymous to person saying them, go on refusing to believe it.

Words can evolve and have different meanings....

And congress can mean fuck, but no one heads to D.C. for an orgy when they hear Congress is in session.

 

[Joates]

Stop trolling. "Faggot is a hurtful term with a well established history as a slur against gays, therefore it's wrong to use it as an insult" obviously does not equate to the ridiculous bullshit strawman you just pulled out your ass. Your arguments in this thread are like lecturing someone on the history of the high-five when they complain you've slapped them in the face. You're being willfully ignorant.

Right because the other side isnt being just as ridiculous. Call out both sides, if your going to play that game.

Or do you also believe that it can NEVER mean anything other than a gay slur.

And congress can mean fuck, but no one heads to D.C. for an orgy when they hear Congress is in session.

Right because your pretend world and the real world are equal.

Congress does not in fact mean fuck in our language, by anyones standards.

 

[Plumbob]

No it doesnt.

What great analysis. You know there are people who are okay with gay rights but still use the word "faggot" as a pejorative BECAUSE of negative stereotypes about gays. It's just two-faced bigotry. We saw it in the south when slave-owners would convert slaves to Christianity to save their souls in spite of their status as lesser-than-human.

Faggot can mean asshole to some people, go on refusing to believe it.

Yeah, and the n word can mean "bad person" to some people. Doesn't make that usage okay. What is currently acceptable discourse for some isn't necessarily what should be acceptable discourse.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Hey Joates, go back a page and read SolKane's post. You cannot, EVER, divorce faggot from its sexual connotations. Ever. Even if you 'mean it in a different way'.

 

[Mumei]

You must have missed a lot of posts in the thread. People were saying context can never make the word mean any less that a gay slur. I disagree. That makes me a liar?

I think you'll find that most of the people saying that context makes no difference were probably referring to intentionally derogatory usages. I would argue (and have argued) that context makes no difference there, as well.

In other words, yes.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Faggot can mean asshole to some people, go on refusing to believe it.

Because the words are synonymous to person saying them, go on refusing to believe it.

Words can evolve and have different meanings....

Ask any person what they think 'faggot' means and not one will claim it means 'asshole'. I've never heard it used in that way.

 

[AstroLad]

And people say Michael Scott is over the top and unrealistic.

 

[ZephyrFate]

And people say Michael Scott is over the top.

Thanks for your usual useless contribution to the thread.

 

[Dr. Malik]

I would assume it was aimed at me since you quoted me twice about it. And again I never, ever justified its usage.

I only quoted you once to prove a point not aimed at you in a derogatory way before I replied to Gaborn with that comment.

which was this

You would be surprised how many fans he has.

basically you just made an assumption

 

[MIMIC]

Words can evolve and have different meanings....

Bullshit.

Gay always meant homosexual.

 

[Monocle]

Right because the other side isnt being just as ridiculous. Call out both sides, if your going to play that game.

Or do you also believe that it can NEVER mean anything other than a gay slur.

When the word faggot is used in a pejorative sense, it's pretty bloody clear why it's supposed to be considered insulting. The emasculating association with the homophobic stereotype of the effeminate gay man is obvious to any culturally literate person. You are making a fool and an ass of yourself by ignoring this widely understood fact.

Right because your pretend world and the real world are equal.

Congress does not in fact mean fuck in our language, by anyones standards.

Whoosh.

Edit: Incidentally, from Dictionary.com:

con·gress
   /n. ˈkɒŋgrɪs; v. kənˈgrɛs, kəŋ-/ Show Spelled[n. kong-gris; v. kuhn-gres, kuhng-] Show IPA
–noun
7. coitus; sexual intercourse.

So basically you're dead wrong.