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[ZephyrFate]

it really is

No... not really...

 

[Dead Man]

I am surprised this has raised a lot more outrage and controversy from the public than when he signed a 5 million dollar contract with Turkish Airlines...Yep I said it!

I'm kidding, actually I am not surprised at all, because there are obviously a lot more gay people in the world right now than there are people who know about the first genocide of the twentieth century.

No more contracts with German companies now? Or American companies for the last genocide of the 19th century?

 

[LyleLanley]

An athlete says something stupid while in the heat of the moment, news at 11.

 

[EricHasNoPull]

No more contracts with German companies now? Or American companies for the last genocide of the 19th century?

Please see my post again and bold and emphasize the words "Know about"

I didn't realize the German government is still denying the Holocaust, are you posting from an alternate reality or something?

 

[Smokey]

courtesy of RJ in NBA thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flv5pxlgcec

 

[Dead Man]

Please see my post again and bold and emphasize the words "Know about"

Your post implies that if more people knew about it, there world be more outrage over his contract with them. I know you were only half serious, but if that is reasonable grounds for being upset at commercial sponsorships, then presumably all nations that have commited genocidal actions of any sort should be on the black list, including the USA, Germany, etc etc.

 

[Koodo]

I think it might be a little bit. Homophobic would imply that kobe was legitimately afraid of the ref for his sexuality and retaliated against his fears with the slur. Really, kobe is just a dude who was pissed off and yelled at the ref like a douche.

He's likely an in general douchebag more than anything else, but this particular slur was a homophobic moment. Not saying he's a homophobe throughout, but it seems better to say there are varying degrees of homophobia than to outright say "he simply is not homophobic." Shoving him into the not homophobic group would mean shoving him into a group that is also inhabited by people that don't use the word in the "heat of the moment." Are we now saying he's just as tolerant as those that never use the word?

 

[marathonfool]

Who gives a fuck he was fined 100k let it go. He knows he shouldn't of said it he paid for it and that's that.

Really no need for this thread to be almost 1,500 posts.

You know, this type of comment pisses me off. It's actually a good thing for a discussion to evolve into a bigger more complex discussion.

 

[EricHasNoPull]

Your post implies that if more people knew about it, there world be more outrage over his contract with them. I know you were only half serious, but if that is reasonable grounds for being upset at commercial sponsorships, then presumably all nations that have commited genocidal actions of any sort should be on the black list, including the USA, Germany, etc etc.

Please see my late edit... Sorry, I should've finished my sentence.

EDIT: You're clearly not in full understanding of the history and more importantly the present situation of said Genocide, so hence "Know about." Sorry if I wasn't too clear initially.

 

[dream]

courtesy of RJ in NBA thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flv5pxlgcec

Another Laker fan trying to deflect Kobe's hateful actions onto the 17 time world champion Boston Celtics, obviously.

 

[numble]

Please see my post again and bold and emphasize the words "Know about"

I didn't realize the German government is still denying the Holocaust, are you posting from an alternate reality or something?

Plenty of NBA stars, like Kevin Garnett, Shaq, Baron Davis, and Evan Turner have endorsement deals with Chinese companies, the latter 3 with Li Ning, who is named after a nationalist Chinese hero. I don't want to look it up, but I bet the Chinese state own some interests in these companies, just like the minority interest that the Turkish government holds in Turkish Airlines. And the Chinese government has denied plenty of the atrocities of their past policies, like the Great Leap Forward, where even the most conservative estimates say resulted in over 15 million deaths (higher estimates say over 45 million).

 

[Red Blaster]

courtesy of RJ in NBA thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flv5pxlgcec

Kenyon Martin don't give a fock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jgxlPfSr-0&feature=player_embedded

 

[Herpes Reasons]

Kenyon Martin don't give a fock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jgxlPfSr-0&feature=player_embedded

k-mart dont give a fuck.

fuckyeah.gif

 

[Dead Man]

Please see my late edit... Sorry, I should've finished my sentence.

EDIT: You're clearly not in full understanding of the history and more importantly the present situation of said Genocide, so hence "Know about." Sorry if I wasn't too clear initially.

See:

Plenty of NBA stars, like Kevin Garnett, Shaq, Baron Davis, and Evan Turner have endorsement deals with Chinese companies, the latter 3 with Li Ning, who is named after a nationalist Chinese hero. I don't want to look it up, but I bet the Chinese state own some interests in these companies, just like the minority interest that the Turkish government holds in Turkish Airlines. And the Chinese government has denied plenty of the atrocities of their past policies, like the Great Leap Forward, where even the most conservative estimates say resulted in over 15 million deaths (higher estimates say over 45 million).

Also, Japan and others have committed genocidal acts that they have not officially recognised. Lots of countries have dark moments in their history they have not acknowledged, either call out all of them, or none.

 

[EricHasNoPull]

I have you on my ignore list Numble after the last controversial thread about Kobe, and I'm just going to pretend I didn't take a peak at your post ( I wish when you put someone on your ignore list, they're totally invisible to you, too bad it doesn't work that way)

I don't have another night to waste on you my good friend.

It's funny how we always meet on GAF when the topic is Kobe and controversy eh?

 

[Massa]

Please see my late edit... Sorry, I should've finished my sentence.

EDIT: You're clearly not in full understanding of the history and more importantly the present situation of said Genocide, so hence "Know about." Sorry if I wasn't too clear initially.

People who know about the Armenian Genocide and think it somehow should be reflected on Turkish Airlines are fucking crazy.

 

[KJTB]

He's likely an in general douchebag more than anything else, but this particular slur was a homophobic moment. Not saying he's a homophobe throughout, but it seems better to say there are varying degrees of homophobia than to outright say "he simply is not homophobic." Shoving him into the not homophobic group would mean shoving him into a group that is also inhabited by people that don't use the word in the "heat of the moment." Are we now saying he's just as tolerant as those that never use the word?

This is a never ending argument. I believe that it falls back to the context of the word. I just think that labeling someone as homophobic is a little extreme. I don't believe that Kobe hates or fears gay people and did not intend the word to be anti homosexual. I don't believe that he called the ref a f*g because he intended to belittle the guy by implying that he was, in fact, gay... but rather it was just an expletive. When you say "fuck you, douchebag!" you don't literally mean to fuck him. They're just words to express anger. His choice of words was extremely poor and very politically incorrect and offended a lot of people. That's pretty much all there is to it.

I'm done posting here after this response because honestly, this thread is just a back and forth between two opposing views that aren't going to budge. That's not to say that both viewpoints don't have credibility.

 

[numble]

I have you on my ignore list Numble after the last controversial thread about Kobe, and I'm just going to pretend I didn't take a peak at your post ( I wish when you put someone on your ignore list, they're totally invisible to you, too bad it doesn't work that way)

I don't have another night to waste on you my good friend.

I didn't realize you are still denying good arguments, are you posting from an alternate reality or something?

 

[Dead Man]

I have you on my ignore list Numble after the last controversial thread about Kobe, and I'm just going to pretend I didn't take a peak at your post ( I wish when you put someone on your ignore list, they're totally invisible to you, too bad it doesn't work that way)

I don't have another night to waste on you my good friend.

We are pretty off topic now, I'll drop it.

 

[EricHasNoPull]

People who know about the Armenian Genocide and think it somehow should be reflected on Turkish Airlines are fucking crazy.

Ok maybe "Knowing" isn't enough what I meant was truly understand the situation.

Anyway, If we continue this, we be derailing the thread. I'll stop now.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Please don't judge the gay 'community' (I hate this term) by a few easily-outraged overly vocal members.

Obviously, I don't. That's why I wrote that "none of the gay people I work with pretty much on a daily basis are such sensitive flowers either, so I don't think there would be much of a ruckus in my studio if somebody did use such a word in that context."

I'm a photographer, so I work with gay guys (and occasionally girls) every day. I honestly don't think I could do my business without gay people--freelance creatives, my stylists, my set builder, about 20% of my agency clients, my favorite magazine photo buyer, ect. Not because they're gay, simply because they are the best people at their jobs, and people I enjoy working with--it's just that happen to be gay. My gay colleagues and friends aren't wimps though, not even the more-flamboyant guys. I'm sure when I ask them about this tomorrow, they'll just say, "well that was stupid," or "I'll bet he wishes those cameras weren't there!" laugh at his fuck-up, and move on.

 

[Herpes Reasons]

I have you on my ignore list Numble after the last controversial thread about Kobe, and I'm just going to pretend I didn't take a peak at your post ( I wish when you put someone on your ignore list, they're totally invisible to you, too bad it doesn't work that way)

I don't have another night to waste on you my good friend.

It's funny how we always meet on GAF when the topic is Kobe and controversy eh?

you're such a delicate flower.

 

[lexi]

Obviously, I don't. That's why I wrote that "none of the gay people I work with pretty much on a daily basis are such sensitive flowers either, so I don't think there would be much of a ruckus in my studio if somebody did use such a word in that context."

I'm a photographer, so I work with gay guys (and occasionally girls) every day. I honestly don't think I could do my business without gay people--freelance creatives, my stylists, my set builder, about 20% of my agency clients, my favorite magazine photo buyer, ect. Not because they're gay, simply because they are the best people at their jobs, and people I enjoy working with--it's just that happen to be gay. My gay colleagues and friends aren't wimps though, not even the more-flamboyant guys. I'm sure when I ask them about this tomorrow, they'll just say, "well that was stupid," or "I'll bet he wishes those cameras weren't there!" laugh at his fuck-up, and move on.

You should call one of them a faggot when they do something that upsets you, see how that goes down.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

You should call one of them a faggot when they do something that upsets you, see how that goes down.

Well, that would be an entirely different context, wouldn't it?

Context does matter.

Newsflash: Homophobia is not the same as other 'phobias' in that it's not based on an actual 'fear' like, say, arachnophobia.

Just find another word then, because if that's the case, and you aren't using the greek root correctly, then that word isn't effective at expressing your idea, which is the whole point of using words in language.

 

[EricHasNoPull]

you're such a delicate flower.

Haha! yeah I know, but ironically my delicacy has nothing to do with an overrated, overpraised and idolized athlete.

No real offense to Kobe or to you though..you know.. your avatar and all.

 

[lexi]

Well, that would be an entirely different context, wouldn't it?

No, not really. It's the exact same word that Kobe used, what's the big deal? I'm sure they'd understand it was the heat of the moment and that the word faggot isn't demeaning at all.

If you defend the word and it's context, surely its okay to call a gay person a faggot when they do something that upsets you? Isn't that the precipice of the argument about how white knight gaf is being too precious?

 

[travisbickle]

I think it might be a little bit. Homophobic would imply that kobe was legitimately afraid of the ref for his sexuality and retaliated against his fears with the slur. Really, kobe is just a dude who was pissed off and yelled at the ref like a douche.

what?!?!

 

[KJTB]

what?!?!

Phobia generally means a fear of something.

 

[Dead Man]

what?!?!

I assumed they meant to say genuinely afraid, rather than legitimately.

 

[KJTB]

I assumed they meant to say genuinely afraid, rather than legitimately.

Right. My choice of words probably wasn't the best there.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

No, not really. It's the exact same word that Kobe used, what's the big deal? I'm sure they'd understand it was the heat of the moment and that the word faggot isn't demeaning at all.

I think there's a big difference in calling a person you know identifies themselves as a homosexual a faggot out of anger, and calling a non-homosexual a faggot out of frustration.

Both are ignorant, but there are different degrees of harm based on the target.

You are obviously being totally disingenuous in your argument though, so I don't know why I'm wasting my time with you. This thread is just a waste of time if you aren't going to participate in thoughtful discussion.

 

[Dead Man]

I think there's a big difference in calling a person you know identifies themselves as a homosexual a faggot out of anger, and calling a non-homosexual a faggot out of frustration.

You are obviously being totally disingenuous in your argument though, so I don't know why I'm wasting my time with you. This thread is just a waste of time if you aren't going to participate in thoughtful discussion.

Can you please explain why you think there is a difference? To me, a word associated with a persons sexuality is being used as an insult. Is it okay to call outwardly straight people faggots? Or are only flamboyant gays protected from the word?

Right. My choice of words probably wasn't the best there.

Language is tricky that way, stupid TV making us thing words are interchangeable.

 

[btkadams]

People. Phobia means an extreme or irrational fear of or AVERSION to something.

Aversion:
• a strong dislike or disinclination

This means that homophobia would fall under the extreme aversion definition.

 

[lexi]

I don't think there's a difference at all, and your reluctance to call a gay person a faggot shows you know this.

 

[Kintaro]

Just so I can get a gauge here, what was the level of hate towards Shaq when he called the Sacramento Kings the "Sacramento Queens" on national television, during a locker room interview? Twice.

 

[KJTB]

No, not really. It's the exact same word that Kobe used, what's the big deal? I'm sure they'd understand it was the heat of the moment and that the word faggot isn't demeaning at all.

If you defend the word and it's context, surely its okay to call a gay person a faggot when they do something that upsets you? Isn't that the precipice of the argument about how white knight gaf is being too precious?

Duuuuude I was going to not post in here but it's so hard not to

Ok, I see where you're getting at and at first glance it has some merit. However, just take a step back, take a deep breath, and then reevaluate the situation. The scenario in which you describe would require that Kobe insulted the ref with the word faggot because he knew the ref was a homosexual and he wanted to personally attack him for his sexuality. If this guy were to yell faggot to his coworkers, the insult would be a direct, demeaning attack against them specifically for their sexuality. Of course calling a homosexual person a faggot purposely, because you know that they're homosexual, to attack their sexuality is inexcusable and downright wrong. In this case, however, it seemed to be more of an expletive derived from anger.

This is probably gonna backfire on me but yeah, my 2 cents.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Phobia generally means a fear of something.

It doesn't "generally" mean a fear. It very much LITERALLY means a fear.

There's a reason words derived from Greek and Latin are used in language, and that's for clarity in meaning, which, again, is the whole point of language. There are other fine words in the lexicon to better describe many of these unfortunate people and incidents more accurately. Slapping the word "homophobic" on everything is just lazy at this point.

 

[mavs]

Duuuuude I was going to not post in here but it's so hard not to

Ok, I see where you're getting at and at first glance it has some merit. However, just take a step back, take a deep breath, and then reevaluate the situation. The scenario in which you describe would require that Kobe insulted the ref with the word faggot because he knew the ref was a homosexual and he wanted to personally attack him for his sexuality. If this guy were to yell faggot to his coworkers, the insult would be a direct, demeaning attack against them specifically for their sexuality. Of course calling a homosexual person a faggot purposely, because you know that they're homosexual, to attack their sexuality is inexcusable and downright wrong. In this case, however, it seemed to be more of an expletive derived from anger.

This is probably gonna backfire on me but yeah, my 2 cents.

It makes a difference to the target of the insult, but not to the user. Why did the user consider the word an insult? It's a "says more about you than it does about me" situation.

 

[Dead Man]

Just so I can get a gauge here, what was the level of hate towards Shaq when he called the Sacramento Kings the "Sacramento Queens" on national television, during a locker room interview? Twice.

Meh, like all things, some words are worse than others. Call a person black? Okay. Call a person nigger? Not okay. Queen carries nowhere near the venom and hate that faggot does.

Duuuuude I was going to not post in here but it's so hard not to

Ok, I see where you're getting at and at first glance it has some merit. However, just take a step back, take a deep breath, and then reevaluate the situation. The scenario in which you describe would require that Kobe insulted the ref with the word faggot because he knew the ref was a homosexual and he wanted to personally attack him for his sexuality. If this guy were to yell faggot to his coworkers, the insult would be a direct, demeaning attack against them specifically for their sexuality. Of course calling a homosexual person a faggot purposely, because you know that they're homosexual, to attack their sexuality is inexcusable and downright wrong. In this case, however, it seemed to be more of an expletive derived from anger.

This is probably gonna backfire on me but yeah, my 2 cents.

How do you know who is gay? Do you know the ref is NOT gay? I think the intent of the user is more important here. Just because you know a gay person would be more offended so you don't actively use it towards them does not make the word okay.

 

[btkadams]

It doesn't "generally" mean a fear. It very much LITERALLY means a fear.

There's a reason words derived from Greek and Latin are used in language, and that's for clarity in meaning, which, again, is the whole point of language. There are other fine words in the lexicon to better describe many of these unfortunate people and incidents more accurately. Slapping the word "homophobic" on everything is just lazy at this point.

Please read my post. Guess what? The definition of homophobia is: an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

Can you please explain why you think there is a difference? To me, a word associated with a persons sexuality is being used as an insult. Is it okay to call outwardly straight people faggots? Or are only flamboyant gays protected from the word?

I answered all this, but you missed it.

Both are ignorant, but there are different degrees of harm based on the target.

Same difference between my ex-roommate in college, a black guy, calling me, a white guy, a nigger, when we get together and fuck around. It doesn't hurt my feelings at all.

 

[Gaborn]

Just so I can get a gauge here, what was the level of hate towards Shaq when he called the Sacramento Kings the "Sacramento Queens" on national television, during a locker room interview? Twice.

I think that's not the same thing because he wasn't directing it at an individual. Taking shots at a team as a whole gives you a lot more leeway than when you make a specific attack against an individual.

 

[Dead Man]

I answered all this, but you missed it.

So, not trying to be facetious here, but only people you KNOW are gay are not to be targeted with the word?

 

[Dude Abides]

People. Phobia means an extreme or irrational fear of or AVERSION to something.

Aversion:
• a strong dislike or disinclination

This means that homophobia would fall under the extreme aversion definition.

But Greek words are used for clarity or something!

Some of my best friends are gay and they explained this to me!

 

[KJTB]

How do you know who is gay? Do you know the ref is NOT gay? I think the intent of the user is more important here. Just because you know a gay person would be more offended so you don't actively use it towards them does not make the word okay.

Ok, for one, don't make this a personal attack against me. I'm not homophobic and I'm not advocating for the usage of the word faggot. I'm mostly just playing devils advocate here, I think that the term is immature to use with today's standards.

Well, that's a problem. You can't know who is or isn't gay. I think that it is safe to assume that most (not all, don't spin this please) people assume that a person is straight unless told otherwise or shown otherwise. Do you believe that Kobe thought the ref was a homosexual and decided because of that to called him a faggot?

 

[Pristine_Condition]

So, not trying to be facetious here, but only people you KNOW are gay are not to be targeted with the word?

Again, I don't use the word. So again, you guys are filling this thread with nonsense.

 

[Maximus.]

I get it, it is offensive to say something derogatory, but sometimes in the heat of the moment these things unintentionally slip out. People need to stop overanalyzing situations like this in my opinion.

 

[Osietra]

Don't really follow netball, but was Bryant the guy who forced himself on a girl?

 

[Dead Man]

Ok, for one, don't make this a personal attack against me. I'm not homophobic and I'm not advocating for the usage of the word faggot. I'm mostly just playing devils advocate here, I think that the term is immature to use with today's standards.

Well, that's a problem. You can't know who is or isn't gay. I think that it is safe to assume that most (not all, don't spin this please) people assume that a person is straight unless told otherwise or shown otherwise. Do you believe that Kobe thought the ref was a homosexual and decided because of that to call him a faggot?

I wasn't trying to attack you, sorry if that came off as harsh. I believe Kobe thought calling someone a faggot is an insult and he used it.

Again, I don't use the word. So again, you guys are filling this thread with nonsense.

I don't care if you use the word, I'm trying to get an idea of what this line is that to you makes the use okay or not okay.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I think that's not the same thing because he wasn't directing it at an individual. Taking shots at a team as a whole gives you a lot more leeway than when you make a specific attack against an individual.

And why is that? Judging from the reactions in this thread it seems that intent is not important at all--just the fact that Kobe spoke out the word is more than enough for people to vilify him. If we throw out intent from the equation and see all events of derogatory words being spoken out as one and the same (in that they all must be objected to and vilified), how come in one case a lot more leeway can be given and not the others?