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[Sutton Dagger]

Then Zephyr's words shouldn't offend you really, if you can recognize your privilege and use it in a way that helps marginalized folks.

It doesn't offend me, it just didn't make any sense to me.

 

[Gaborn]

I'm about to be real with you all.

Nigga (without the "ER". very important) and faggot, I say them both, but never in the way they were originally intended, towards the people they were intended for. Never in a million years. I say "that's gay" as well. I don't hate blacks or gays.

"nigga" and "faggot"? "faggot" is much more comparable to "nigger" to the gay community. "nigga" is a word that has developed a COMPLETELY different meaning because "nigga" wasn't a word at all until recently. Faggot hasn't. There's a very good reason that NO ONE has ever called a girl a "faggot" and that's because it's about males and definitions of manliness and how for some people a gay man is not a "real man."

 

[Margalis]

I love the idea that significant percentage of the adult population has no idea that "fag" or "gay" has anything to do with homosexuals.

 

[Jerk]

I love the idea that significant percentage of the adult population has no idea that "fag" or "gay" has anything to do with homosexuals.

Yeah. I would love to live in that fantasy world.

 

[Dr. Malik]

Not matter how you look at it is was aimed at me whether it was indirect or not. And the reason why I said the usage isn't justified was because Gaborn was talking about me and I wanted to make things clear.

Ok then, you have every right to take issue with my comment just like I can take issue when people say faggot. And if my comment offended you in one way or another then I apologize.

 

[MIMIC]

And how do you think the world nigger transformed into a word where people are "extremely aware of what [they're] saying and where it comes from?" The word was clearly commonplace and had dual (triple, quadruple, etc) meanings in the past. It certainly didn't transform into the spoken stigma it is today out of complacency by letting it be "less" wrong in some contexts and "more" wrong in other contexts.

Like what?

Did nigger use to mean piece of hair? A page out of a notebook? Did it mean that someone was in an anxious mood?

 

[LizardKing]

And how do you think the world nigger transformed into a word where people are "extremely aware of what [they're] saying and where it comes from?" The word was clearly commonplace and had dual (triple, quadruple, etc) meanings in the past. It certainly didn't transform into the spoken stigma it is today out of complacency by letting it be "less" wrong in some contexts and "more" wrong in other contexts.

And if it didn't transform into the spoken stigma that it is today, I don't think that blacks would be in any worse position, and nobody would be any worse off. In fact that might have been for the better, as racists wouldn't have such a loaded word to throw at blacks. It's probably a good thing if these poor intentioned words lose their meanings as being derogatory towards certain sects of people. So if people want to use them in a better way, then maybe other people should let them. By being offended by this word, you are only empowering it.

 

[Devolution]

Good post. Though ignorance of the suffering of minority groups is unfortunately not just demonstrated by those in the majority. I'm amazed to see some black minority groups openly profess their distaste of the gay and lesbian community...Where was their perspective? Ignorance and bigotry certainly can't be distilled down to one group, majority or minority, and the accusations of 'lack of perspective' don't do anything but create more division.

Well I've had this discussion before about how "communities" is actually a white person's creation. Would you consider yourself part of a greater "white community", an amorphous blob that feels the same way about everything? No? Then why ascribe this notion to minority groups.

But getting past that diatribe of mine, there are also clashes between minorities because they are not without prejudices of their own, just like whitey. In the instance of the "black community", I feel there is a great denial and shame when it comes to homosexuality. I think it might be the great influence of religion though in this instance. There is this thing, don't know a better term for it here, called "on the down low", where a man will actually be gay but have a beard and kids in order to, I guess, "save face."

Prejudice can go in all directions, same with privilege in certain instances. But you can kind of figure out the totem pole based on how society deals with certain races/ethnicities, genders, religions and sexual orientation. You don't necessarily create division if you can recognize how society has given you certain advantages compared with other people, and help to close those gaps with legislation that gives minorities rights on par with the established privileged majority.

 

[ZephyrFate]

This has become the most useless topic ever. We're going over the exact same stuff over

andover

andoverandoverandover

 

[Dr. Malik]

This has become the most useless topic ever. We're going over the exact same stuff over

andover

andoverandoverandover

Its the circle of Gaf.

 

[Dark Octave]

"nigga" and "faggot"? "faggot" is much more comparable to "nigger" to the gay community. "nigga" is a word that has developed a COMPLETELY different meaning because "nigga" wasn't a word at all until recently. Faggot hasn't. There's a very good reason that NO ONE has ever called a girl a "faggot" and that's because it's about males and definitions of manliness and how for some people a gay man is not a "real man."

Hmmm. Good points.

I can't feel what you feel when t he word "faggot" is used and the truth is, "nigger" with the "ER" still very much does sting when said, even by myself as a joke or mocking a racist or something like that. I get pulled out of my own joke for a second because the word is so ugly to me.

I'll have to think about that one, Gaborn.

 

[adamsappel]

The meaning of a slur in the wider context of society doesn't magically disappear just because some guy and his derphead posse decide that the slur doesn't offend them personally.

Are you aware of the way common insults function? Person A takes a term that represents something society considers wrong or bad or dirty and applies it to Person B, thus shifting to Person B the negative associations linked to the thing that term represents. Let's look at a list of common insults and the main things they represent. Notice the associations that come to mind as you read them, and see if you can spot a pattern.

fucker - one who engages in sexual intercourse
shit - excrement
asshole - eliminatory orifice
bitch - female dog
cunt - female genitalia
dick - male genitalia
cocksucker - one who performs oral sex
faggot - effeminate male homosexual

These terms are insulting because of what they mean or originally meant. Asshole may be a generic insult, but the reason it's insulting is because people regard the anus's excretory function as dirty. Even if faggot were a generic insult, as you claim, the reason it would be insulting is because of its original association with a gay male stereotype, which many people, straight men in particular, perceive to be repulsive and unnatural.

I wonder why the bolded is an acceptable term (GAF's own Pimpbaa is tagged with it). It doesn't not generically mean "one who performs oral sex." It is never used against a woman. It is a synonym for homosexual and is intended to convey the exact insult as "faggot."

 

[UrokeJoe]

This has become the most useless topic ever. We're going over the exact same stuff over

andover

.

but not out

 

[Dead Man]

"nigga" and "faggot"? "faggot" is much more comparable to "nigger" to the gay community. "nigga" is a word that has developed a COMPLETELY different meaning because "nigga" wasn't a word at all until recently. Faggot hasn't. There's a very good reason that NO ONE has ever called a girl a "faggot" and that's because it's about males and definitions of manliness and how for some people a gay man is not a "real man."

Good post.

Hmmm. Good points.

I can't feel what you feel when t he word "faggot" is used and the truth is, "nigger" with the "ER" still very much does sting when said, even by myself as a joke or mocking a racist or something like that. I get pulled out of my own joke for a second because the word is so ugly to me.

I'll have to think about that one, Gaborn.

Good point. I will never know what it is like to be called a nigger. But I do know what it is like to hear faggot used as an insult on an almost daily basis. Fucking shit sucks.

 

[mavs]

I wonder why the bolded is an acceptable term (GAF's own Pimpbaa is tagged with it). It doesn't not generically mean "one who performs oral sex." It is never used against a woman. It is a synonym for homosexual and is intended to convey the exact insult as "faggot."

If you want to go that far, what does "sucks" mean?

TBH, I try not to use either of those. "Sucks" is a hard word to substitute out, though.

 

[blame space]

basically it all comes down to real estate

 

[JCRedeems]

I can't believe this got so much attention. It must be a slow news day. Political correctness has gotten out of hand. Was it wrong? Yes. But out of the trillion billion problems in the world what he said was ranked 808,088,548,868th.

Get over it.

 

[LizardKing]

If you want to go that far, what does "sucks" mean?

TBH, I try not to use either of those. "Sucks" is a hard word to substitute out, though.

Or blows

 

[Sutton Dagger]

Well I've had this discussion before about how "communities" is actually a white person's creation. Would you consider yourself part of a greater "white community", an amorphous blob that feels the same way about everything? No? Then why ascribe this notion to minority groups.

But getting past that diatribe of mine, there are also clashes between minorities because they are not without prejudices of their own, just like whitey. In the instance of the "black community", I feel there is a great denial and shame when it comes to homosexuality. I think it might be the great influence of religion though in this instance. There is this thing, don't know a better term for it here, called "on the down low", where a man will actually be gay but have a beard and kids in order to, I guess, "save face."

Prejudice can go in all directions, same with privilege in certain instances. But you can kind of figure out the totem pole based on how society deals with certain races/ethnicities, genders, religions and sexual orientation. You don't necessarily create division if you can recognize how society has given you certain advantages compared with other people, and help to close those gaps with legislation that gives minorities rights on par with the established privileged majority.

Great point about the 'community' distinction, though again this works both ways in my experience. For instance the Aboriginal community (though not traditionally a homogenous group of people) have had to, out of necessity to survive, banded together and collectively regard themselves as a community.

Things like the distinction between 'Australian history' and 'Aboriginal history' in our education system are disheartening to me, the constant 'us' and 'them' mentality is socially reinforced to the point that it isn't thought about. The entire concept of hating someone because of their race/sex/sexual orientation etc. just seems so ludicrous to me, it has no basis in rational, logical thought.

 

[Dead Man]

Or blows

Blows is actually from blowing chunks, or vomiting. At least where I live. Kids would say 'This blows chunks' when something was boring or inept.

/showing age

 

[Sutton Dagger]

I can't believe this got so much attention. It must be a slow news day. Political correctness has gotten out of hand. Was it wrong? Yes. But out of the trillion billion problems in the world what he said was ranked 808,088,548,868th.

Get over it.

After reading plenty of your posts, you can't seem to form a rational/logical argument, thus your input doesn't really amount to anything.

 

[Gaborn]

Hmmm. Good points.

I can't feel what you feel when t he word "faggot" is used and the truth is, "nigger" with the "ER" still very much does sting when said, even by myself as a joke or mocking a racist or something like that. I get pulled out of my own joke for a second because the word is so ugly to me.

I'll have to think about that one, Gaborn.

Think about this. I think you're a black man, and you've grown up knowing the history of very ugly prejudice, and probably facing it yourself. Gays have too, and one of the tools of that prejudice is behind the word faggot.

I'm not sure if you know where it actually comes from, but Faggots were basically burning branches. They used to burn "faggots" and in fact, burn faggots at the stake. That's essentially the reason why it's so derrogatory. It's not just a word. It has too much history for that.

 

[Koodo]

And if it didn't transform into the spoken stigma that it is today, I don't think that blacks would be in any worse position, and nobody would be any worse off. In fact that might have been for the better, as racists wouldn't have such a loaded word to throw at blacks. It's probably a good thing if these poor intentioned words lose their meanings as being derogatory towards certain sects of people. So if people want to use them in a better way, then maybe other people should let them. By being offended by this word, you are only empowering it.

That doesn't make sense given that precisely because it has turned into a stigma is why you see anyone using the word in public getting severely penalized (i.e. expulsion from the workplace); in other words, because it has turned into a stigma is that you see overt racism getting penalized, and this should have logically lead to the decrease in discrimination towards blacks (the stigma forces you to [1] avoid maliciously insulting others, which can lead to [2] a realization that this group of people are normal just like you, given that you would not be surrounded in an environment with a word that categorizes this group as an "other").

I would agree that people should not get offended (it would not only be better for your health not to, but it anecdotally appears to be the best strategy to make these offenders shut up). Not being offended doesn't mean you should let the word continue to be perpetuated, however. Realize that, nowadays, only gays and women are in the unfortunate position where their innate self is commonly used as an insult (you don't see people saying "stop being black, white or chinese;" you do hear people saying "stop being gay or a girl"). Whether you realize it or not, these words only end up perpetuating the notion that these groups are either repulsive (gays) or inferior (women), because words can consciously and unconsciously shape the way we think.

 

[blame space]

i for one subscribe to our founding fathers' ideals in which people belonging to "communities" are able to be bought and sold on a whim

god, this thread is so off track.. you guys are making a dude who is good at playing basketball saying the word faggot into some kind of national climate debate

this isn't changing anyone's views on gay people, this isn't helping anything. all it's doing is creating static in the true binary: equal rights for everyone.

if gay people are suddenly granted equal rights because Kobe Bryant brought this pertinent issue to public light, maybe we can figure out what the fuck else is actually wrong with the equality issues in this country. but in the mean time, let's argue about people who misuse words.

 

[SolKane]

I'm not sure if you know where it actually comes from, but Faggots were basically burning branches. They used to burn "faggots" and in fact, burn faggots at the stake. That's essentially the reason why it's so derrogatory. It's not just a word. It has too much history for that.

That's not true, that's a folk etymology.

 

[Devolution]

Great point about the 'community' distinction, though again this works both ways in my experience. For instance the Aboriginal community (though not traditionally a homogenous group of people) have had to, out of necessity to survive, banded together and collectively regard themselves as a community.

This is true of other groups in the US as well, but it's also used unfairly to describe large swaths of minorities as if they are all the same. Their backgrounds, heritage, culture and individual feelings about issues are just as complex as us, yet we feel the need to lump them all together as one race. At this point it's just really disingenuous to talk about minorities in such a way, especially when we don't talk about the "white community" or consider Boehner, for instance, a white community leader who speaks for all of us.

Things like the distinction between 'Australian history' and 'Aboriginal history' in our education system are disheartening to me, the constant 'us' and 'them' mentality is socially reinforced to the point that it isn't thought about. The entire concept of hating someone because of their race/sex/sexual orientation etc. just seems so ludicrous to me, it has no basis in rational, logical thought.

We still have a real lack of acknowledgment of Native American history and just what the westward expansion and pioneers did to those peoples. It's our history too, yet we act like it was inevitable and even necessary to basically commit mass genocide. It's covered a bit in U.S. history classes with the Trail of Tears and such, but not really on a level I would consider eye opening.

 

[pakkit]

There's a very good reason that NO ONE has ever called a girl a "faggot" and that's because it's about males and definitions of manliness and how for some people a gay man is not a "real man."

Don't tell me how I could potentially use curse words in the English language, thank you.

 

[blame space]

my high school history teacher used Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start The Fire" as an outline for an entire quarter's curriculum

and you guys think kids give a shit about the history of words they use for "dude i don't like"

 

[btkadams]

i for one subscribe to our founding fathers' ideals in which people belonging to "communities" are able to be bought and sold on a whim

god, this thread is so off track.. you guys are making a dude who is good at playing basketball saying the word faggot into some kind of national climate debate

this isn't changing anyone's views on gay people, this isn't helping anything. all it's doing is creating static in the true binary: equal rights for everyone.

if gay people are suddenly granted equal rights because Kobe Bryant brought this pertinent issue to public light, maybe we can figure out what the fuck else is actually wrong with the equality issues in this country. but in the mean time, let's argue about people who misuse words.

what else is there to do on a wednesday night? it's not hurting anyone to have this thread discussion.

 

[Gaborn]

That's not true, that's a folk etymology.

Huh, you're right, at least to the extent that there is no direct evidence that's why it evolved that way. They certainly did burn people at the stake and bundles of sticks were called faggots but it's hard to document if they specifically burned anyone alive just because they were gay.

The generally agreed upon meaning however is all about effeminacy and a perception of gay men as not real men though. It's a very ugly word for that reason.

 

[Devolution]

my high school history teacher used Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start The Fire" as an outline for an entire quarter's curriculum

and you guys think kids give a shit about the history of words they use for "dude i don't like"

I think if a history teacher pointed out the persecution of homosexuals throughout history like we get for Jews and Blacks, kids would reconsider throwing "faggot" around, like how "nigger" and "kyke" has been bred out of common usage.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

This is true of other groups in the US as well, but it's also used unfairly to describe large swaths of minorities as if they are all the same. Their backgrounds, heritage, culture and individual feelings about issues are just as complex as us, yet we feel the need to lump them all together as one race. At this point it's just really disingenuous to talk about minorities in such a way, especially when we don't talk about the "white community" or consider Boehner, for instance, a white community leader who speaks for all of us.

I agree wholeheartedly and acknowledge the issues it causes, I was just making the point that the idea of 'community' is sometimes applied out of self preservation.

still have a real lack of acknowledgment of Native American history and just what the westward expansion and pioneers did to those peoples. It's our history too, yet we act like it was inevitable and even necessary to basically commit mass genocide. It's covered a bit in U.S. history classes with the Trail of Tears and such, but not really on a level I would consider eye opening.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

 

[Dark Octave]

I think if a history teacher pointed out the persecution of homosexuals throughout history like we get for Jews and Blacks, kids would reconsider throwing "faggot" around, like how "nigger" and "kyke" has been bred out of common usage.

I agree with this.

lol WTF is a "Kyke"? Sounds so ugly. Nevermind, I don't care to know.

People can come up with some shitty words, can't they.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

This reminds me of South Park.

 

[Koodo]

The generally agreed upon meaning however is all about effeminacy and a perception of gay men as not real men though. It's a very ugly word for that reason.

Not to mention that this perceptions ends up affecting straight men too. Either you adhere to the rigid hegemonic masculinity, or you suffer the consequences of not being a "normal" man.

 

[maruchan]

Kobe just drooped 36pts, 9 reb, and 6 ast... lol.

 

[blame space]

get that single double shit (stuff, not excrement) out of here, grown ups are talking about important words.

 

[Gaborn]

I agree with this.

lol WTF is a "Kyke"? Sounds so ugly. Nevermind, I don't care to know.

People can come up with some shitty words, can't they.

I believe she meant "kike"

 

[Smokey]

Who gives a fuck he was fined 100k let it go. He knows he shouldn't of said it he paid for it and that's that.

Really no need for this thread to be almost 1,500 posts.

 

[CrushDance]

Holy shit! I leave for work and come back to a 29 page thread? Wow. I can't read through all of this, what happened to that methos guy? what else did I miss?

 

[Esiquio]

Is it just me, or is the word, "homophobic" greatly misused in a lot of these situations?

 

[Dark Octave]

Who gives a fuck he was fined 100k let it go. He knows he shouldn't of said it he paid for it and that's that.

Really no need for this thread to be almost 1,500 posts.

Smokey
Just ordered 2 Laker car flags on Amazon.com
(Today, 10:50 PM)
Reply | Quote

Sorry man, I had to.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Is it just me, or is the word, "homophobic" greatly misused in a lot of these situations?

It's not.

 

[Smokey]

Smokey
Just ordered 2 Laker car flags on Amazon.com
(Today, 10:50 PM)
Reply | Quote

Sorry man, I had to.

I'm not a Laker fan hence my avatar

You wouldn't understand unless you're apart of NBA-age . But seriously 1,500 posts for this is dumb.

 

[Dark Octave]

I'm not a Laker fans

You wouldn't understand unless you're apart of NBA-age

lol I see. I think I understand.

 

[KJTB]

It's not.

I think it might be a little bit. Homophobic would imply that kobe was legitimately afraid of the ref for his sexuality and retaliated against his fears with the slur. Really, kobe is just a dude who was pissed off and yelled at the ref like a douche.

 

[Derwind]

Haha, Kobe, kobe, kobe, kobe........koooooooooooooooooooooobe....

I mean I know profession sports players say some unsavory things during the heat of the moment but its lovely when caught on film. XD

 

[EricHasNoPull]

I am surprised this has raised a lot more outrage and controversy from the public than when he signed a 5 million dollar contract with Turkish Airlines...Yep I said it!

I'm kidding, actually I am not surprised at all, because there are obviously a lot more gay people in the world right now than there are people who know about the first genocide of the twentieth century.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I think it might be a little bit. Homophobic would imply that kobe was legitimately afraid of the ref for his sexuality and retaliated against his fears with the slur. Really, kobe is just a dude who was pissed off and yelled at the ref like a douche.

Newsflash: Homophobia is not the same as other 'phobias' in that it's not based on an actual 'fear' like, say, arachnophobia.

 

[blame space]

it really is