-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
League of Legends |OT10| Botlane Was A Mistake, It's Nothing But Thresh
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
- Start date
- Status
killatopak
Gold Member
Yay series for Plat 4.
PhillipCostigan
Member
If you want to do no damage you could do that.
I can see an argument for E over W as your second ability to max but maxing Q is his damage.
These comments are scary me as they are all about how good the damage is on these tanks X.x
I don't mind the Tank meta and much prefer it over the Talon/Zed fest I've been seeing at the moment with zero front line to entertain them. I mainly play ADC so the tank meta meant for some decent prolonged fights but also felt like you had no power.
It will be scary if these new tank items/builds are giving the 3-4k HP monsters enough damage to crush the backline with ease. It's already bad enough in SoloQ where the tank front line does zero peeling or disruption and goes straight for the backline so I can only see this getting worse if they can do damage as well
Ah well I'm always for change though it is nice to shake things up rather than keeping them static or designing around a super safe set of margins.
I don't mind the Tank meta and much prefer it over the Talon/Zed fest I've been seeing at the moment with zero front line to entertain them. I mainly play ADC so the tank meta meant for some decent prolonged fights but also felt like you had no power.
It will be scary if these new tank items/builds are giving the 3-4k HP monsters enough damage to crush the backline with ease. It's already bad enough in SoloQ where the tank front line does zero peeling or disruption and goes straight for the backline so I can only see this getting worse if they can do damage as well
Ah well I'm always for change though it is nice to shake things up rather than keeping them static or designing around a super safe set of margins.
Why not just get mobis instead? If you are a jungler/support, that is.
Or both! If they stack?
I could see it maybe being okay for Naut/Alistar/Leona support due to the slow it gives once you are charged. Probably not cost effective for most other supports though.Stone Ocean
Member
You don't need that much MS, specially with diminishing returns
PhillipCostigan
Member
These comments are scary me as they are all about how good the damage is on these tanks X.x
I don't mind the Tank meta and much prefer it over the Talon/Zed fest I've been seeing at the moment with zero front line to entertain them. I mainly play ADC so the tank meta meant for some decent prolonged fights but also felt like you had no power.
It will be scary if these new tank items/builds are giving the 3-4k HP monsters enough damage to crush the backline with ease. It's already bad enough in SoloQ where the tank front line does zero peeling or disruption and goes straight for the backline so I can only see this getting worse if they can do damage as well
Ah well I'm always for change though it is nice to shake things up rather than keeping them static or designing around a super safe set of margins.
Well the concept of juggernauts is that they're not tanks per se. The idea is that yeah they're beefy and do some serious damage, but they have to get to you first. I think why Skarner is the immediate outlier in terms of fulfilling that role right now is that he's super fast and can get to people to do his damage.
But yeah. They're not assassins. They do a lot of damage but in general they're slow and they have to just run at you to reach you. They're also not cc monsters like regular tanks (Skarner has the most cc of the 4. I'm beginning to notice a pattern here). They're just beefy dudes that can wreck you if you try to fight them in their area of operation.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
You see, League of Legends is Metal Gear. Shen is Solid Snake, Zed is Liquid Snake, Yasuo is Raiden. Tahm Ketch is fatman.
War is butts
You are probably going to max E over W on new Skarner. Or at the very least swap points between the two. W scaling off points is only a few extra HP % on the shield, which is nice and all, but less needed when the shield isn't flat that scales up with points in the ability. I will try to play him today.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Is he out yet?
Morde's bot lane clear is sick too. W level 1 and you can push 3 waves into the enemy tower, go get scuttle crab and then get back in order to push the 4th wave into their tower.
Just won a morde/support duo lane game
It felt pretty weird.
That dragon is pretty damn hilarious though....
Also -
PROJECT: Fiora concept art ??? (she has an 06 and the same sword)
that's not fiora, some random art zeronis did. at least that's what he posted about that piece a few weeks ago
killatopak
Gold Member
I think someone commisioned him/her to do it. I feel her skin would be similar considering the artist is from Riot.
morde? yes
Orochinagis
Member
Just won a morde/support duo lane game
It felt pretty weird.
That dragon is pretty damn hilarious though....
Also -
PROJECT: Fiora concept art ??? (she has an 06 and the same sword)
Project Sona lol
He's correct. Maxing Q or E is situational, but E max first will be more frequent, or in the least bit stronger. 11 patches later and people are still maxing W first on jungle Nautilus, so sometimes players are their own problem.
Q now scales off total attack damage which means that its damage increases without having to put ranks in it. On top of that, its stacking movement speed and attack speed bonus have now been shifted to his passive, which either triggers on applying kit-based CC (Fracture or Impale) or when a near a crystal spire. It isn't loaded with combat stats anymore, there's no reason to pick it up first except in a single potential case.
At Level 9, a rank 5 Crystal Slash will deal ~44 damage (or 88 with empowered Qs). A rank 1 Crystal Slash will deal 32 damage/64 damage (all this is before additional AD, which is fine to assume to be near 0 because Cinderhulk will still generally be better on Skarner). That's a difference of 24 damage per empowered Crystal Slash. The difference in damage of a rank 1 and rank 5 Fracture is 240 damage. So in the span of 10 seconds (rank 5 CD on E w/ the on-hit CD reduction passive on E) Skarner would have to land 10 empowered Crystal Slashes to equal the damage differential. That would be impossible; just can't happen even in an ideal situation. On top of that, ganking is still very important at level 9 and the burst damage from E is better than the sustained damage from Q, as is the slight improvement to the strength of the slow. Added bonus is that his clear speed in the jungle is better with E and clearing lane minions is way better with E than Q.
Things get murky once you start considering non 1v1 or Xv1 situations in Skarner's favour. But now you have to consider how many champions is Skarner hitting with Q or E, how much on-hit CDR is he getting on E, etc. Worst comes to worst, Q max and E max are equal, but since E > Q for 1v1 scenarios and ganks, then E as a whole is better.
Q max first does have its uses. A very early snowball for Skarner opens up the possibility of going Warrior with Trinity Force as his second pickup for lots of early game damage and this build favours Q max. Again, Skarner will generally be consigned to being the team's tank so Cinderhulk will still be the more frequent item. This favours E max.
I fully expect to see a considerable difference in the win rates for Q first and E first skill order on champion.gg and leagueofgraphs.com by this weekend.
Try Impaling a target with Righteous Glory and W active. Now that Skarner gets his 100 MS bonus for the duration of his ultimate pulling targets 2/3 of the screen is fucking hilarious. Definitely putting some work in this weekend on Skarner as well.
Stone Ocean
Member
Fuck, I really hope the actual Fiora skin looks similar to this
killatopak
Gold Member
hngggggggggggg
Orochinagis
Member
Why waste money when you can find them he.....
Stone Ocean
Member
Why waste money on Sakimichan when you can get NSFW+ Zeronis stuff
I hate this
killatopak
Gold Member
Pm me the links pls.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
i didnt do it this time
PhillipCostigan
Member
well, first of all it's not a straight 240 damage difference because the E itself is magic damage and you're not going to ever get magic pen on new Skarner. I also think going Cinderhulk is a waste considering his dueling potential and the amount of damage he can put out, especially with the Cinderhulk nerf this patch making it worse. Maxing Q brings the cooldown to 2.5 seconds, or 1.5 seconds with 40% CDR which is potentail builds heavily favour. Coupled with the 1 second cooldown refund on champion hit means you'll be throwing out a Q every 0.5 seconds. It's a massive DPS increase to max Q especially if you're buying at least an AD item so that you're weaving Qs in with super fast autos. And then when you consider the AoE damage from Qing in a teamfight...
None of that even considers the fact that if you miss the E you're fucked.
Q to me is a far better choice.
SenorArdilla
Member
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I'm watching imaqtpie play mordekaiser
he might be a tad bit weak. Or maybe qtpies build is stupid as fuck.
I told you guys about skarner
he might be a tad bit weak. Or maybe qtpies build is stupid as fuck.
I told you guys about skarner
Stone Ocean
Member
QT is building random shit and still wrecking most bot lanes he plays against. When people perfect Morde's itemization he'll probably be pretty strong.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
nahhhh
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
Oh God the Morde ez nightmare is real.
Irrelevant without knowing the specific MR and armor of the target. Might be better. Might be worse. At rank 9 natural armor has now outstripped natural MR on most champions.
Cinderhulk is worse after something like 1000 bonus hp. At purchase, it's now better.
.
Are you going to have 40% CDR at level 9? No, you're not. You won't be getting 10 Crystal Slashes at level 9, I guarantee it. We're talking about which skill to max first and you're bringing out this scenario that occurs later in the match.
It's a total AD skill, whether you're ranking it or doesn't change much. It's a massive DPS if you're going with a Sheen item, not raw AD. Again, you're envisioning a scenario that goes beyond Level 9. You won't have the significant amount of purchased AD at that point to really take advantage of the 0.33 tAD -> 0.45 tAD increase.
And if you're not in melee range you can spam Q all you want it won't do shit.
"What do I max first?" Has everything to do with what makes you strongest at level 9, and not necessarily your best spell. Once itemized Q will hold the lion's share Skarner's damage potential, but it's not what you max first. It is his best spell because of the way it can dole out damage, or even pump up his utility with Frozen Fist, etc.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
skarner is op now
you can max w and you'll still win
you can max w and you'll still win
Stone Ocean
Member
I doubt they'll touch him too hard since the next two patches are meant for worlds
BreezyLimbo
Banned
"We decided we wanted to bring back Zed, Lucian, and Skarner for worlds because they make the game look more fun than it is. So we will nerf them again after worlds. In fact we rebuffed Kassadin just for Worlds."
i mean directly after his rework, skarner was wrecking everything so hard that they insta nerfed him in like a hotfix or something. or maybe it was the next patch, i dunno. they seem to like buffing him to super stronk then immediately cutting him down instead of letting him stay op like other champions.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I want to say the only time a champions been nerfed through a hotfix is Leblanc. I wouldn't remember about Skarner, don't think he was egregiously disgusting.
I agree that they should've waited until post season/pre season to do the big changes. This to me screams out, 'WE WANT CRAZY THINGS TO HAPPEN AT WORLDS! LOOK AT ALL THESE CUHRAZY PICKS! SKARNER AND DARIUS AND GAREN! WOW! WE NERFED ARMOR ITEMS! FIORA AND IRELIA OH MY!'.
I mention Irelia because well...nerfing armor items is going to help her alot
That's the only reason I can see why they're doing this.
I genuinely do not understand riots mentality. They make sweeping changes in a number of untouched champions, across the board changes to an entire class of item (armor) and add new items RIGHT before worlds. What professional sport does stuff like that??? I would be so mad if I was a pro player. There's no possible way they can balance it properly in the weeks before worlds let alone the adaption that teams have to make.
PhillipCostigan
Member
do what this guy says
I couldn't be happier that Riot is telling the pro LoL scene to go fuck itself. Game first, boring shit where nothing happens for 20+ minutes second.
Stone Ocean
Member
Xin Zhao, Zyra were both also nerfed through hotfixes
This is an ever changing game that you need to constantly adapt for if you want to be competitive. This is the last big patch before worlds, all scrims happening right after the playoffs are done will be in this patch, everyone is on even ground so if teams can't handle getting used to the changes in a two month span too fucking bad.
- Status