I love the Rune system
I hate the Rune system
It's so easy to get caught up in customizing them, but each change is a grind
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League of Legends |OT10| Botlane Was A Mistake, It's Nothing But Thresh
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
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- Status
I love the Rune system
I hate the Rune system
It's so easy to get caught up in customizing them, but each change is a grind
CLG getting into the bot game. Trying to find out the worst team comp so they can sell the info to account leveling services.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Reposting because It's an interesting discussion.
And this is the crux of it. They're dangling the chest or key parts in front of your face, saying 'Look at this! It's a mystery box with brand new shiny things! You want to open it, don't you?'. There are people that have little self control and just want to immediately unlock it. This kind of system preys on that person. There are people that feel enjoyment when 'gambling' on a pack of cards, a chest like this, or pulling a lever. This system preys on that.
And Zky is right. Feeling 'exploited' or 'icky' about the system is a natural reaction to knowing how these types of systems work. I play Destiny a whole lot, it's the same damn thing in that. And that's what Riot is sorta chasing, the 'loot' aspect, the final cog of the machine. DotA has done it, with drops here and there or buyable versions, or purchasable 'mystery boxes'. It's pulling a lever in a slot machine, just digitized.
And I dunno why people are picking on Zky over seeing this as negative, seeing as I'm right here nitpicking on their intentions behind this shitty system.
There are hundreds of studies on stuff like that. Behavioral consultants are hired by, among others, video game companies hire to inform them on how to create systems to keep a player pressing the button for cheese. Whether it's World of Warcraft, Diablo, Destiny, Vegas Casinos, Claw Machines, Gacha machines, or what have you, all of these utilize a system that encourages customers to keep interacting with it. Whether it's the flashing lights and sound of a slot machine or opening a mystery skin and getting neat little graphics and sounds in League, or the color grading system of equipment in Diablo or WoW, all of these systems come together to prod the customer to keep playing.
DotA has done this for a while. Whether it's the Compendium, the buyable chests, or the loot drops, it enforces the playing of a game outside of the game itself. Yeah, League is fun to play, but what if we added Mystery Chests that can contain shiny new looks or ability graphics eh? And we'll give you some free Chests to get that feedback loop started, to get you excited for it. And then we'll pull the wool over your eyes and stop offering free Mystery Chests but they're purchasable over here for a measly 250 RP. You want to open the Mystery Chest, don't you?
...What happens is that playing the game stops being about the game itself, and it starts being about opening the chests or working towards the next key. Towards the next pull of the lever.
It's disgusting, quite frankly.
If you want to learn more about how these systems work, watch this video from Gamespot, it's about Destiny, but it talks about the background of systems like the one League is about to introduce-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g79dWuqXe5o
The thing is, these systems are tailored to create these addictions. That's the scary part.
The mice that learned to press the button for cheese learned how to press the button. And then they pressed it over and over and over and over again despite having no previous inclination to do so. If they implement this system the way they said-Chests as drops here and there, key fragments you build up, it'll create that same loop. Play until you finish a key, open the chest. Rinse and repeat. Especially if they sale chests but you still have to build keys. Instead of pressing the button, you play the game to get this piece of key to open the chest and hope you get a new shiny.
It's a reality of how these systems work.
And this is the crux of it. They're dangling the chest or key parts in front of your face, saying 'Look at this! It's a mystery box with brand new shiny things! You want to open it, don't you?'. There are people that have little self control and just want to immediately unlock it. This kind of system preys on that person. There are people that feel enjoyment when 'gambling' on a pack of cards, a chest like this, or pulling a lever. This system preys on that.
And Zky is right. Feeling 'exploited' or 'icky' about the system is a natural reaction to knowing how these types of systems work. I play Destiny a whole lot, it's the same damn thing in that. And that's what Riot is sorta chasing, the 'loot' aspect, the final cog of the machine. DotA has done it, with drops here and there or buyable versions, or purchasable 'mystery boxes'. It's pulling a lever in a slot machine, just digitized.
And I dunno why people are picking on Zky over seeing this as negative, seeing as I'm right here nitpicking on their intentions behind this shitty system.
There are hundreds of studies on stuff like that. Behavioral consultants are hired by, among others, video game companies hire to inform them on how to create systems to keep a player pressing the button for cheese. Whether it's World of Warcraft, Diablo, Destiny, Vegas Casinos, Claw Machines, Gacha machines, or what have you, all of these utilize a system that encourages customers to keep interacting with it. Whether it's the flashing lights and sound of a slot machine or opening a mystery skin and getting neat little graphics and sounds in League, or the color grading system of equipment in Diablo or WoW, all of these systems come together to prod the customer to keep playing.
DotA has done this for a while. Whether it's the Compendium, the buyable chests, or the loot drops, it enforces the playing of a game outside of the game itself. Yeah, League is fun to play, but what if we added Mystery Chests that can contain shiny new looks or ability graphics eh? And we'll give you some free Chests to get that feedback loop started, to get you excited for it. And then we'll pull the wool over your eyes and stop offering free Mystery Chests but they're purchasable over here for a measly 250 RP. You want to open the Mystery Chest, don't you?
...What happens is that playing the game stops being about the game itself, and it starts being about opening the chests or working towards the next key. Towards the next pull of the lever.
It's disgusting, quite frankly.
If you want to learn more about how these systems work, watch this video from Gamespot, it's about Destiny, but it talks about the background of systems like the one League is about to introduce-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g79dWuqXe5o
The thing is, these systems are tailored to create these addictions. That's the scary part.
The mice that learned to press the button for cheese learned how to press the button. And then they pressed it over and over and over and over again despite having no previous inclination to do so. If they implement this system the way they said-Chests as drops here and there, key fragments you build up, it'll create that same loop. Play until you finish a key, open the chest. Rinse and repeat. Especially if they sale chests but you still have to build keys. Instead of pressing the button, you play the game to get this piece of key to open the chest and hope you get a new shiny.
It's a reality of how these systems work.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
r u calling me a nolifer
I don't like chest and key system/gambling either. I guess it was inevitable as soon as we had a client that could handle it, considering what a monetary success it is in valve's games.
Other than that, cool changes. I'll have to read more to catch up.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Well I mean...
....you can either nerf Morde and get an extra ban, or you can trade it all in for what's in this box-
i know you don't mean that by inevitable but it wasn't inevitable, it was a conscious choice that riot made
and tbh i always thought rito just didn't agree with the chest stuff and that's why they didn't do it, which is why i'm pretty disappointed to see.
pretty much
blame shouldn't be on the person exploited, developers should just not make exploitative systems
i'm surprised i had so much pushback
weird
this is a really good video
i love danny, he's great
Yeah, you get what I mean and I get what you mean. Before, I thought rito didn't agree with it either but the timing with the new client makes me think otherwise; that the client tech was holding them back from this source of revenue. Granted, it is speculation from my side.
Yeah pretty much.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Um, thats not the problem.
yeah, keys are the thing that makes the whole thing unpleasant, specially because when they're tied to $$$
thinking of the payday 2 blowout, i'm surprised this isn't a hot topic on the league subreddit
i think partly is how riot worded the whole thing. the writing is very unclear and you could be forgiven for going through it thinking that keys cannot be bought on the store, but with so little details, it's not wild thoughts to assume key shard drops will be scarce enough to make buying keys worth it
the whole chasing the next reward loop thing has long been in the game, from ranked tiers to mastery to skins to champion and icon and ward collecting, etc.
thinking of the payday 2 blowout, i'm surprised this isn't a hot topic on the league subreddit
i think partly is how riot worded the whole thing. the writing is very unclear and you could be forgiven for going through it thinking that keys cannot be bought on the store, but with so little details, it's not wild thoughts to assume key shard drops will be scarce enough to make buying keys worth it
it is a big problem, or at least the big problem that's introduced in this particular time
the whole chasing the next reward loop thing has long been in the game, from ranked tiers to mastery to skins to champion and icon and ward collecting, etc.
That's why you two aren't even on the same point
Zkylon is sad about the dangling of the key and the goodies box tied to potential money for at risk return
You're annoyed about the gambling like RNG of loot rolls which you allege leads to addiction
Which is just meaningless however since its not a core part of the game, unlike loot rolls in destiny and Diablo likes
So zkylon makes sense, you don't.
Zkylon is sad about the dangling of the key and the goodies box tied to potential money for at risk return
You're annoyed about the gambling like RNG of loot rolls which you allege leads to addiction
Which is just meaningless however since its not a core part of the game, unlike loot rolls in destiny and Diablo likes
So zkylon makes sense, you don't.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I think its going to be the chests that are sold @_@ not the keys themselves since those are seemingly easier to come by.
Its a wai and see...unfortunately.
Given how much the league subreddit loves dota, I would expect them to love this. Many people have been wanting the chest and key system for "free skins".
i agree with what he says about gambling and stuff, and i think there are traces of that in this chest system thing as it existed in tf2.
i wouldn't say it's meaningless even tho it's not as pronounced as in destiny or whatever
i think it's keys but i could be wrong
i dunno, in general i feel the league subreddit is really bad at reacting to stuff like that (for or against), while they freak over the stupidest of things
Um mouse press button analogies work for destiny and the like but that's all that makes sense
The analogy just flat out doesn't work here, even if this is definitely a form of "gambling" though he didn't seem too concerned about the money aspect, but more so the RNG aspect
It doesn't make sense because chests cannot become a big enough reason of why you play the game due to factor like: you can't sell the items, the chests will be rarer than tf2 standards, major cosmetics will still be sold on lolshoppe and the items don't have stats
The league subreddit is concerned about dynamic queues,which I think is fair enough. It changes the core game for many players (solo queue)
I'm a solo queuer and I am tentatively worried myself, mostly because 4 stacks I've met have been pretty annoying
Wolf Akela
Member
I just got home from work and read the news.
Holy shiiiiiiiiiiiit
Holy shiiiiiiiiiiiit
i guess there's two things
there's the "addicting" element of the reward structure which isn't that different from first win of the day, mastery or even patches. it gets you hooked in the game because of things built to get you hooked into the game. this is not necessarily a bad thing, as all games have leveling systems, loot, side quests, etc., so the implementation is what matters here. i think league does fairly ok with this, and i don't think the chests really make this much worse.
the second thing is the creation of an artificial need and how they provide a for profit way of satiating that need. i never liked this, i hate it in fallout shelter when i play it and look at that fucking super tempting mr handy upgrade that could make collecting those resources so painless and then i have to stop and remind myself not to fall for its tricks. this is kind of what is being introduced with chests, and i guess it's up to key drop rates but i'm guessing they won't be plentiful so that feeling of having a need that's not covered is gonna be there and i dislike that a lot
it's one of the things i criticized a lot about doto, i played like 5 games of doto and got a bunch of locked chests and a few armor pieces that would look SO COOL if i just bought the rest of the set and while i'm at there this guy is selling keys for the cheap and...
yeah i guess for me it just sounded like a cool thing but i can see there could be some big pitfalls if matchmaking is wonky, specially in regions like mine where there's not that many peoplee
BreezyLimbo
Banned
there can only be 2 newt
solo queue(with infinite party) and party queue
solo queue(with infinite party) and party queue
I mean more than 2 players. You should still be able to duo q for solo q.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
You can. 1-5 players can all join together in new ranked.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
There is no solo queue anymore, there is ranked draft. You can duo queue in ranked draft.
Team ranked draft seems to still be separate though.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Wait shit oh no they're bringing the draft mode to ranked
fuck
I feared this
It's all over, fuck this cuddling pick your role and characters and be nice to everyone bullshit in the lobby, fuck the riot state.
It's all over, it's all over for league. It will perish.
It's more like they're bringing team builder to ranked, which is fine, but I wish they would still keep generic solo q.
:lol
BreezyLimbo
Banned
AzureSkies
Member
I already quit so I approve of this change.
Don't worry Newt, you can still pick Bard jungle even if you queue for adc.
You say it as if I troll for fun. That's simply a by-product.
If the world didn't have Yasuos, I would never troll.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I'm sure with the new system where you have to pick your roll, if you do a troll pick it's much easier to track it and easier to ban.
It's an awful solution, rito plz
It's an awful solution, rito plz
I get why you're doing it even if I don't agree with doing it.
You can still do it though. What is it that you're missing from the new ranked from the old one?
Well now he can quit early if people show "yasuo" intent without repercussions
and also, you're more likely to get caught if you say pick bot-adc and end up playing bard with most of your time in the jungle
The new queue simultaneously solves his problems and makes his trolling harder to pull off
and also, you're more likely to get caught if you say pick bot-adc and end up playing bard with most of your time in the jungle
The new queue simultaneously solves his problems and makes his trolling harder to pull off
Stone Ocean
Member
I honestly don't see the difference between chests and mystery skins and those are loved.
Let people with credit cards decide what to do with their money, they're adults or kids with parent permission. If they want to burn it they don't need a gambling system for that, making it sound like Riot is doing something shady is silly
Let people with credit cards decide what to do with their money, they're adults or kids with parent permission. If they want to burn it they don't need a gambling system for that, making it sound like Riot is doing something shady is silly
Stone Ocean
Member
I dunno I just think people are overthinking things waaaay too much and using a bunch of unlikely what if scenarios to complain about something that they haven't even tried yet - talking about the quadra Q reddit thing, not you zky, before you think I'm giving you shit for saying your opinion even though I don't agree.
"But what if I get matched with a 4 man premade and we do bad and they're assholes and actually take it out on me" is not a common thing and there's 4 months until the new season actually starts, there will be plenty of time to test it and figure it out if it actually sucks and if Riot should cancel the thing.
"But what if I get matched with a 4 man premade and we do bad and they're assholes and actually take it out on me" is not a common thing and there's 4 months until the new season actually starts, there will be plenty of time to test it and figure it out if it actually sucks and if Riot should cancel the thing.
That would be cool. I did not expect any more map skins.i've been with 4 stacks before though in normal q
theyre lamers
with todays reveal its probably worth it to bring up this guy:
snowdown snowy summoners rift with free mastery chests for testing hype
everybody is going to forgive riot
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