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[HowZatOZ]

Is it just my client or do updates take forever to download? I always seem to get only 200-300kb/s, despite being on cable and getting upwards of 3 MB/s in Steam. 150mb patches take far too long.

So....6 losses in a row tonight. Jesus fuck. This new patch makes it damn hard to come back if the enemy team is ahead.

Question: what is your jungle philosophy on a lane that is losing. I used to think if a lane was getting dominated, you focus on other lanes that have a chance to push them ahead. However, just played a game with an Olaf who gave up 15 deaths by end. 0 kills. Top lane. At 3 deaths, I told our jungle he needs to get up there before top lane tilts and collapses. He didn't, and top lane imploded. I'm a little pissy that the top lane was ignored, especially since mid was destroying and bot (me) was doing ok holding off. Curious where you guys stand. In the end, our top lane doomed us.

That's exactly my jungle mentality. Why help a lane that is clearly doing fine when another is being crushed by either their jungle ganks or just a good matchup. A jungler should be ebbing and flowing around the map, but they should also direct their attention to spots that are hurting more. It'd be like a doctor administering a bandaid to your cut toe when you've got a gaping wound on your neck.

 

[jerd]

So....6 losses in a row tonight. Jesus fuck. This new patch makes it damn hard to come back if the enemy team is ahead.

Question: what is your jungle philosophy on a lane that is losing. I used to think if a lane was getting dominated, you focus on other lanes that have a chance to push them ahead. However, just played a game with an Olaf who gave up 15 deaths by end. 0 kills. Top lane. At 3 deaths, I told our jungle he needs to get up there before top lane tilts and collapses. He didn't, and top lane imploded. I'm a little pissy that the top lane was ignored, especially since mid was destroying and bot (me) was doing ok holding off. Curious where you guys stand. In the end, our top lane doomed us.

Reeeeeally depends on who the laners are on both sides. Is it a riven that's gonna get out of control if you don't babysit? Probably a good idea to spend some time on the lane. Do you have a teemo getting dumpstered? He's probably not contributing much to the game regardless. A lot of times even just dropping a ward for your laners is enough to at least keep them from feeding

Just like everything else in the game theres no one right answer

That's exactly my jungle mentality. Why help a lane that is clearly doing fine when another is being crushed by either their jungle ganks or just a good matchup. A jungler should be ebbing and flowing around the map, but they should also direct their attention to spots that are hurting more. It'd be like a doctor administering a bandaid to your cut toe when you've got a gaping wound on your neck.

At first glance this probably seems like it should be true but with experience you'll realize that's just not really how solo q works. As long as that lane isn't actively costing you the game sometimes its better to snowball your jinx bot lane and focus on towers and dragons.

 

[HowZatOZ]

Oh definitely as jungler you gotta weigh up the choices of helping that Kindred top lane who is losing badly or snowball a competent mid Yasuo who just needed the leg up. Its why I love Jungle role, its the most interesting and dynamic role in the game with no one match being the same.

 

[dimb]

Not really sure how to feel about the Preseason stuff. I actually hate the masteries. Pushing more power into them is fun and all but it's already obvious to me that this benefits some champions far more than others. I guess the choices just also don't feel interesting to me. It's harder to find concessions to put points into talents that I feel suit me/the champion, because the choice is fairly obvious most of the time. With two options on the table it mostly comes down to what role you are taking.

It doesn't help that these masteries seem like they push the game in directions I find displeasing. Mages get more burst. Healers get more out of their heals. It just feels wonky and unbalanced without supporting many fringe champions. I don't find the options for bruisers interesting. I don't like all the sustain in the game.

I absolutely hate what they've done to the jungle. Buying potions is awkwardly expensive so you're stuck with the crummy refillable pot, which only turns amazing once you dump 250 in it. But there is a huge hurdle early game for the first jungle item, and it's even steeper if you want sustain from the second pot. You cannot delay the item purchase for the first upgrade though because of the experience gains it provides. The efforts they made to prevent double jungling are also had an extremely negative impact on the feel of the jungle. There's no fluidity to the paths now. One buff to the other. Experience gains are painful for tank junglers. Scuttler Crabs aren't an early out for champs with low sustain either, which feels even more punishing with the lower early health regen. Failed ganks also feel like a death sentence. If you only get a Flash you are falling way far behind.

It's still really early but I do not think I will like this season very much.

 

[Tizoc]

Bit of a silly question but when will the new ranked placements start?

 

[jerd]

Very true on the keystones. I get that they were trying to make them more interesting than just raw numbers buffs but it just seems like there are too many abuse cases atm. Surely these will be ironed out well before s6 tho

Seasons usually start in january iirc tizoc

 

[Peanut Butter]

competent mid Yasuo

 

[Skux]

Observations so far:

- There is a lot more damage in the game between Thunderlord's Decree, Fervor of Battle, carries going 18/12 instead of the semi-defensive 21/9 and the removal of flat resists in the early defensive mastery tree. Skirmishes and teamfights feel a more explosive as a result and games can swing a lot more depending on who gets focused in teamfights.

- Marksmen feel great, they are all more distinct in their identity, though they might be overtuned at the moment. The item curve is much smoother and marksmen become relevant a lot earlier on now, which I like.

- Last Whisper no longer being seen as a necessity has been sort of a secret boon for tanks at the moment, everyone is too busy trying out the new items. But I think if it starts being built regularly we'll see that tanks got left behind in this patch.

- I like the vision changes. Vision control isn't as snowbally as it was before and invisible champs no longer get hard countered by a sweeper.

- Not so sure about the turret changes. It's so easy to take them down early if you die and they have a Jinx or Trist.

- I don't think the minion changes (which weren't included in this patch) will be necessary. The game definitely feels faster already and the proposed rules are way too confusing, conditional and snowbally.

 

[Newt]

Not really sure how to feel about the Preseason stuff. I actually hate the masteries. Pushing more power into them is fun and all but it's already obvious to me that this benefits some champions far more than others. I guess the choices just also don't feel interesting to me. It's harder to find concessions to put points into talents that I feel suit me/the champion, because the choice is fairly obvious most of the time. With two options on the table it mostly comes down to what role you are taking.

It doesn't help that these masteries seem like they push the game in directions I find displeasing. Mages get more burst. Healers get more out of their heals. It just feels wonky and unbalanced without supporting many fringe champions. I don't find the options for bruisers interesting. I don't like all the sustain in the game.

I absolutely hate what they've done to the jungle. Buying potions is awkwardly expensive so you're stuck with the crummy refillable pot, which only turns amazing once you dump 250 in it. But there is a huge hurdle early game for the first jungle item, and it's even steeper if you want sustain from the second pot. You cannot delay the item purchase for the first upgrade though because of the experience gains it provides. The efforts they made to prevent double jungling are also had an extremely negative impact on the feel of the jungle. There's no fluidity to the paths now. One buff to the other. Experience gains are painful for tank junglers. Scuttler Crabs aren't an early out for champs with low sustain either, which feels even more punishing with the lower early health regen. Failed ganks also feel like a death sentence. If you only get a Flash you are falling way far behind.

It's still really early but I do not think I will like this season very much.

You should seen Rex play Eve today. Holy the new Jung is rough.

 

[Nekofrog]

slows are stacking again

i dont know under what conditions, it was a brand with rylais

maybe something with the new masteries but it was going down to levels near 70%+

Jax E isn't mitigating some skill abilities like Riot said it would, too.

 

[Terbinator]

Still no skin

The changes are too daunting for me to jump in and mess about. Guess I'll skip match play for a few days.

 

[Leezard]

Is the jungle really that rough now?

I thought they made all the camps easier.

 

[Newt]

Is the jungle really that rough now?

I thought they made all the camps easier.

They got rid of rangers.

 

[killatopak]

I really wish they'd add more tenacity items or masteries. Mercs being nerfed and zephyr being removed is pretty bad.

Hory shit just logged on and there's a ton of guys playing so I'm stuck on this log in queue.

The new champ is so broken.

 

[killatopak]

double post.

 

[dimb]

Yeah, I think I actually do not like the game at all right now. Riot really messed up on this stuff. I don't even understand how a lot of this stuff goes through a preliminary pass.

Is the jungle really that rough now?

I thought they made all the camps easier.

The experience gains are weak and the camps aren't that much weaker, so it just feels like everything is cost ineffecient. You're also less likely to get camp assistance early on, and you're pushed to stuff like blue buff as your first camp, which hurts because the smite buff off it is worth nothing.

 

[Leezard]

They got rid of rangers.

A lot of champs did not use Rangers, though. I can see how it is an issue for some junglers.

Yeah, I think I actually do not like the game at all right now. Riot really messed up on this stuff. I don't even understand how a lot of this stuff goes through a preliminary pass.

The experience gains are weak and the camps aren't that much weaker, so it just feels like everything is cost ineffecient. You're also less likely to get camp assistance early on, and you're pushed to stuff like blue buff as your first camp, which hurts because the smite buff off it is worth nothing.

So you're not getting a leash now? I can see how that can be tough. I thought lanes would be more inclined to help since taking a camp solo as a laner is weaker. Every game I've played so far has had the bot lane help the jungler.

Interesting that they do not feel that much weaker. I wonder if it has to do with the mastery changes; there were a lot of jungle masteries before. On paper I thought the camps seemed to become much easier.

 

[Stone Ocean]

The experience gains are weak and the camps aren't that much weaker, so it just feels like everything is cost ineffecient. You're also less likely to get camp assistance early on, and you're pushed to stuff like blue buff as your first camp, which hurts because the smite buff off it is worth nothing.

These aren't true though? You're getting more XP than before in every single camp, and with jungle camp also spawning earlier laners have no reason not to leash so you can go about your normal route.

Jungle items not being as efficient is true but every camp gives more gold, you no longer have to spend as much gold on wards and there's more ambient gold so that's a moot point.

 

[Tizoc]

Holy shit
They made Maw of Malmortus a little better now.
Dat armor pen

 

[jerd]

The new champ is so broken.

Idk she seems weird to me. Her E seems really good. She's really similar to the juggernauts it seems since shes low cc and no mobility. Could be great could be awful. i wouldnt use this vid as evidence either way tho. There are like 10+ tentacles in that lane. It takes 2 aas to kill them so pretty much anyone who isn't top lane graves wouldnt have a problem keeping the lane clear of them.

Also that guy is a diamond+ player and most pbe players are low elo.

 

[Tizoc]

I've been watching this stream for 15 minutes and every time he gets a match someone bails out
http://www.twitch.tv/lilballzlolz

Let's see if he manages to get a game going this time :V

 

[kenbo]

Yeah, I think I actually do not like the game at all right now. Riot really messed up on this stuff. I don't even understand how a lot of this stuff goes through a preliminary pass.

The experience gains are weak and the camps aren't that much weaker, so it just feels like everything is cost ineffecient. You're also less likely to get camp assistance early on, and you're pushed to stuff like blue buff as your first camp, which hurts because the smite buff off it is worth nothing.

It's a shame jungle got shafted(?) again

Played a few games of my own. Ap mid still feels great. With Thunderlord's, AP doesn't feel nerfed. It's practically a free luden's passive.

I know some people are reading notes and seeing ad items and assuming that means ad assassins are pushing out Ap assassins but thunderlord's really keeps Ap assassins in the game since it does magic damage whilst ad assassins have no keystones that augment their burst

 

[Tizoc]

This is my 2nd time seeing a Mid Cait @_@

 

[dimb]

Just because the camps spawn earlier doesn't really mean people are inclined to help you. Timer is still 25 seconds between creeps spawning and camps spawning.

These aren't true though? You're getting more XP than before in every single camp, and with jungle camp also spawning earlier laners have no reason not to leash so you can go about your normal route.

???}
Why lie? It's in the patch notes.

Simply put, the jungle's a tad easier and gives more gold, but nets less overall experience unless you've got a jungle item to make up the difference.

I don't feel like the difficulty of the camps was cut very hard for the drawbacks in place.

So you're not getting a leash now? I can see how that can be tough. I thought lanes would be more inclined to help since taking a camp solo as a laner is weaker. Every game I've played so far has had the bot lane help the jungler.

Interesting that they do not feel that much weaker. I wonder if it has to do with the mastery changes; there were a lot of jungle masteries before. On paper I thought the camps seemed to become much easier.

I was playing with the same people for a lot of games in a row and it looks like I had some bad info. I can still do the old path but I'm not sure how that lines up with Smite timers. I don't really feel like that changes my overall complaints about how it feels to jungle right now.

There just aren't power items set up for you as a jungler, and you have so many other things you need to invest in that aren't combat stats. Junglers are certainly not on the high end of income in most games, but it's one of those things where there's just too much going on. I don't want to mess around with specialized sustain items. It was nice just having purple smite there and it was something that pushed the low sustain junglers though. Now that's not an option. I feel trapped building items without combat stats.

I'm forced into prioritizing an expensive jungle monster only upgrade. On many champions I feel like I need to invest more in sustain. And then I have boots. It's not fun. When I hit my first jungle item it doesn't feel like a power spike, it feels like I'm crossing my fingers that the laners are letting me keep up with them.

AD carries have all these specialized items with solid raw stats and powerful passive/active components. As the jungler I feel like I get nothing in the trade. Stuff like the new Warriors is super dull.

 

[powerdrain]

I don't understand what's so bad about support Lux? I've been using her a lot recently and had loads of success with her. Wombo combo OP. Plus I tend to duo with Jinx's so lots of ults paired together which are always satisfying.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Every Large jungle monster lost 10 experience, but now Machete and Talisman give you +15 experience on large monster kill. 5 extra experience per camp.

You get more experience than ever before in the jungle. Not sure where your experience issues are coming from. Camps are weaker and you get more experience and more gold.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Just because the camps spawn earlier doesn't really mean people are inclined to help you. Timer is still 25 seconds between creeps spawning and camps spawning.

???}
Why lie? It's in the patch notes.

unless you've got a jungle item to make up the difference.

We are talking about actually jungling and not being a laner and taking camps right?

Camps give 10 less XP, jungle items give you 15 more XP. It's just math. As for people leashing, they have as much reason to leash for you as they did before, nothing has changed, if people aren't leashing for you it's because they're dicks not because of the system changes.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Also have you tried Talisman instead of Machete? It's more sustainy item that should work great on tank junglers.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Not really sure how to feel about the Preseason stuff. I actually hate the masteries. Pushing more power into them is fun and all but it's already obvious to me that this benefits some champions far more than others. I guess the choices just also don't feel interesting to me. It's harder to find concessions to put points into talents that I feel suit me/the champion, because the choice is fairly obvious most of the time. With two options on the table it mostly comes down to what role you are taking.

It doesn't help that these masteries seem like they push the game in directions I find displeasing. Mages get more burst. Healers get more out of their heals. It just feels wonky and unbalanced without supporting many fringe champions. I don't find the options for bruisers interesting. I don't like all the sustain in the game.

Keystones are the ultimate illusion of choice. Most mages will be foiled into 1 keystone, ADCs into another, Bruisers into another. Tanks do have some variety with Strength of Ages being second to Bond of Stone, depending on whether you're a pure tank or bruiser(The first one is completely laughable and weaker), and utility...well, renaming the tree into 'Cunning' doesn't change the fact that supports are still their ADCs bitches, and windspeakers blessing is the best keystone if your champion has a support function that utilizes it.

It's like....holy shit who thought this through? An illusion of choice, really? Runes and masteries continue to be the ultimate farce of choice in the game. Have all these runes and yet you'll be going for the same sets every time, have all these masteries but there will always be an optimal build. They should just remove them already.

 

[Tizoc]

The new item that gives grievous wounds makes dealing with Darius a little easier.

 

[dimb]

Also have you tried Talisman instead of Machete? It's more sustainy item that should work great on tank junglers.

It doesn't really help with clear speed that much. I don't really know what else to say. The new jungle items have a high cost without value being stacked behind them. I feel like the jungle changes were designed around thwarting unwanted pro team gameplay rather than facilitating a fun jungling experience.

Sustain is weak. The cost increase to HP pots makes sustain prohibitively expensive unless you invest in an item specifically for it. I do not want to do that. I don't like the new Warrior enchant. In the past I felt like I could upgrade my Trailblazer for sustain, buy an extra item of choice as a building block that would also help me against champions. It feels bad right now.

 

[Quonny]

Keystones are the ultimate illusion of choice. Most mages will be foiled into 1 keystone, ADCs into another, Bruisers into another. Tanks do have some variety with Strength of Ages being second to Bond of Stone, depending on whether you're a pure tank or bruiser(The first one is completely laughable and weaker), and utility...well, renaming the tree into 'Cunning' doesn't change the fact that supports are still their ADCs bitches, and windspeakers blessing is the best keystone if your champion has a support function that utilizes it.

It's like....holy shit who thought this through? An illusion of choice, really? Runes and masteries continue to be the ultimate farce of choice in the game. Have all these runes and yet you'll be going for the same sets every time, have all these masteries but there will always be an optimal build. They should just remove them already.

Wait, so you're saying a competitive game that has millions of players might have some min-maxing? You're pulling my leg.

Look at these masteries like a way to shake up the game more than anything else and you won't get so upset. You see things like AP Yi, and it's only been a short while.

 

[Leezard]

So we've that jungle camps are easier than before and also give more experience.

The only problem is health pots and less effective jungle items, then?

Has jungle items lost more stats than other items? Take ap items for example. Most items have gotten more expensive.

How is the new smite enchantment?

 

[jerd]

Keystones are the ultimate illusion of choice. Most mages will be foiled into 1 keystone, ADCs into another, Bruisers into another. Tanks do have some variety with Strength of Ages being second to Bond of Stone, depending on whether you're a pure tank or bruiser(The first one is completely laughable and weaker), and utility...well, renaming the tree into 'Cunning' doesn't change the fact that supports are still their ADCs bitches, and windspeakers blessing is the best keystone if your champion has a support function that utilizes it.

It's like....holy shit who thought this through? An illusion of choice, really? Runes and masteries continue to be the ultimate farce of choice in the game. Have all these runes and yet you'll be going for the same sets every time, have all these masteries but there will always be an optimal build. They should just remove them already.

I really haven't given them too much thought but imo as far as adcs are concerned that's only true bc warlords is so broken right now. After they tone that down both warlords and fervor will be super tempting. I can only assume a caitlyn with fervor is disgusting in lane

Plus I guarantee this season you'll see a significant number of mages, and maybe some assassins going all the way down the utility tree as opposed to the never in a million years that they would do that before

Basically i disagree with pretty much everything you said but those are my highlights

Also I think you're pretty wrong about grasp of the undying but its not your fault, its just worded weird. Every 4 seconds in combat your next auto deals 4% of your max health in bonus damage and heals you for that amount. The way it is worded sounds like youre just getting a heal

 

[Stone Ocean]

There's a new smite enchantment? I thought the green item didn't do jack shit beyond extra sustain.

 

[Leezard]

There's a new smite enchantment? I thought the green item didn't do jack shit beyond extra sustain.

Well, it's also a mini sightstone. It's not really a smite enchantment though, that's true. I didn't know what to call it, really.

 

[garath]

There's no new smite enhancement. They got rid of rangers and poachers (did they get rid of poachers?) and added trailblazers.

So now we have:

Stalkers - chilling smite
Skirmishers - the true damage and damage reduction smite
Trailblazers - no smite change but adds wards.

Meh. I liked rangers a lot.

 

[kenbo]

Keystones are the ultimate illusion of choice. Most mages will be foiled into 1 keystone, ADCs into another, Bruisers into another. Tanks do have some variety with Strength of Ages being second to Bond of Stone, depending on whether you're a pure tank or bruiser(The first one is completely laughable and weaker), and utility...well, renaming the tree into 'Cunning' doesn't change the fact that supports are still their ADCs bitches, and windspeakers blessing is the best keystone if your champion has a support function that utilizes it.

It's like....holy shit who thought this through? An illusion of choice, really? Runes and masteries continue to be the ultimate farce of choice in the game. Have all these runes and yet you'll be going for the same sets every time, have all these masteries but there will always be an optimal build. They should just remove them already.

Not saying you're wrong but runes are a bad comparison

Pro players often vary on the same champion

Keystones are easy to max Min but the interesting choices lie in the early utility vs defense choices

 

[Terbinator]

Damn, I got a new gold banner but not Plat. Salty as fuck.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Gold banner > plat banner

 

[kenbo]

Damn, I got a new gold banner but not Plat. Salty as fuck.

Because you didn't deserve plat

 

[Quonny]

Susan is so good. Nice tanky top laner, let me just shit all over you and push down your tower while ignoring your puny damage.

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

Susan?

 

[Stone Ocean]

Susan?

Nasus aka Susan aka Doge

 

[Tizoc]

Susan is so good. Nice tanky top laner, let me just shit all over you and push down your tower while ignoring your puny damage.

Get BoRK+G. Wounds and doge is ded.

 

[Hemi-PoweredDrone]

Nasus aka Susan aka Doge

I never realized that Susan is an anagram for Nasus. What else didn't I know?

 

[Tizoc]

I never realized that Susan is an anagram for Nasus. What else didn't I know?

Trundle's Ice pillar deals 1 point of True Damage if it position it properly on an enemy champ.

Spoiler

Or so I've heard

 

[zkylon]

new masteries just feel like more of the same tbh

like soda says i don't feel keystones adjust to your playstyle as much as just boost whatever your champion is supposed to do anyways. if you're poke get the mini liandrys, if you're burst get the mini ludens echo.

that's not necessarily all that different from old masteries, but since there's less choices than before i feel like keystones kind of didn't accomplish anything

slows are stacking again

i dont know under what conditions, it was a brand with rylais

maybe something with the new masteries but it was going down to levels near 70%+

Jax E isn't mitigating some skill abilities like Riot said it would, too.

wait really slows are stacking again?

that's pretty huge

I really wish they'd add more tenacity items or masteries. Mercs being nerfed and zephyr being removed is pretty bad.

Hory shit just logged on and there's a ton of guys playing so I'm stuck on this log in queue.

The new champ is so broken.

that's very stupid

I don't understand what's so bad about support Lux? I've been using her a lot recently and had loads of success with her. Wombo combo OP. Plus I tend to duo with Jinx's so lots of ults paired together which are always satisfying.

everything is bad about support lux

dont play support lux

 

[Leezard]

I never realized that Susan is an anagram for Nasus. What else didn't I know?

Maokai = I am oak

 

[Stone Ocean]

Graves getting hotfixed next week lol

Not sure why Riot didn't even try nerfing him on the PBE, he was obviously dumb