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League of Legends |OT10| Botlane Was A Mistake, It's Nothing But Thresh

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zkylon

zkylewd
If someone finds her unsatisfactory compared to other supports, that I can buy, different playstyles, preferences.

But less satisfying than her old self, who had passive auras as opposed to ones that needs to maneuver around the playfield to max out her strengths and you can see providing tangible benefits? In what world is seeing a shield on an ally less satisfactory than an invisible defensive stat buff, or seeing them take off like a rocket for a few seconds after hugging them with the celerity aura as opposed to that old weak ass speed up?

(Soraka's rework missed the mark. Instead of her Q poke giving her back health to heal more, it should have been what enables the heal in the first place, or makes is stronger.)
the thing is, her active spells were more powerful than they are now. better heals, more damage, more speed, better passive. yeah the auras were invisible power and whatnot but you could actually feel your spells deal damage specially before.

The updated version of Soraka is definitely worse for the game from the player's end and the opponent's end. Old Soraka just had more to her that was engaging. Shorter range Starfall encouraged a more active playstyle that would reward an extended engagement or careful attention to the spell's range. Her heal was less about the regained health and instead incentivized careful timing to provide resistances, which made it most beneficial while you were fighting instead of being safe and reliable after engagement subsided. I think the silence definitely improved as an interesting mechanic, but overall the updated Soraka encourages a playstyle that just shouldn't be in the game.
yeah i see what you mean
 

garath

Member
I can't seem to play with any juggernauts. They're all banned every game lol. Might have to teambuildwr skarner jungle tonight.
 

Kenai

Member
yeah i see what you mean
.

In an objective sense the heal was more powerful due to no health leech + the armor but was on a much longer CD, and Starfall was a nono bot lane since it had pretty short range and could easily kill minions to sabotage your ADC.

Also if Leona jumped on you or Thresh/Blitz hooked you there was literally nothing you could do since there was no real harass from her so they'd be full health all ins. Sona wasn't notably aquisher but had more harass options with her Q and passive, Janna's shield/knock up allowed her ADC to be more aggressive while still providing safety, and Nami was kinda in the middle of both with trading and CC and sustain. Plus all 3 had a much more useful ult at 6 for engaging/disengaging.

The only real thing Soraka had over them was her mana refill so her ADC could make up for her lack of poke by spamming their Q or whatever else more. I'm sure there are plenty of old videos of her old laning phases and I can promise you they aren't more engaging than now. Unless you are counting her solo laning phases, which was a whole different issue and was most likely the fire that lit up under Riot's butt and sped up her rework since so many people thought it was super toxic.
 
2352323523.jpg

Yesssssssss
 
Because "muh burden of information" or some shit

Now if only they would add fucking complete tooltips that say what a spell does in every rank like in Dota and we're golden
 
Nah, at one point Soraka (two versions ago) can outpoke anyone by maxing E. Long range point and click nuke and silence followed by an auto or two. W for heal and armor against autos. Maxing Q means you're looking for extended trades,and she was the best support at doing that. It's a bit similar to Nautilus E except way more damage.

No idea why maxing E didn't catch on back then. There was literally no counterplay.

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Nocturne buffs? Please no! I don't want him to get popular and receive net nerfs.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
In an objective sense the heal was more powerful due to no health leech + the armor but was on a much longer CD, and Starfall was a nono bot lane since it had pretty short range and could easily kill minions to sabotage your ADC.

Also if Leona jumped on you or Thresh/Blitz hooked you there was literally nothing you could do since there was no real harass from her so they'd be full health all ins. Sona wasn't notably aquisher but had more harass options with her Q and passive, Janna's shield/knock up allowed her ADC to be more aggressive while still providing safety, and Nami was kinda in the middle of both with trading and CC and sustain. Plus all 3 had a much more useful ult at 6 for engaging/disengaging.

The only real thing Soraka had over them was her mana refill so her ADC could make up for her lack of poke by spamming their Q or whatever else more. I'm sure there are plenty of old videos of her old laning phases and I can promise you they aren't more engaging than now. Unless you are counting her solo laning phases, which was a whole different issue and was most likely the fire that lit up under Riot's butt and sped up her rework since so many people thought it was super toxic.
i mean, i'm not really arguing any soraka is better cos i don't really like playing her myself, but i feel as an opponent pre and post rework she's boring af

and tbh, sona feels boring too for a similar reason, tho not as bad as raka

2352323523.jpg

Yesssssssss
cool, it's pretty cray this didn't exist until now

they said on reddit before that their icons couldn't actually show mana costs with their old tech. I think that was the latest excuse at least.
ir ur tag new? i just noticed just now
 

clemenx

Banned
Oh shiii. Finally Nocturne ulti range buffs for rank 1. It helps on all ranks tho but this is much needed.

So guys, how should I play/build Morde now? I don't get the gist of it from just reading lol and kinda want to play him.
 

Kenai

Member
Nah, at one point Soraka (two versions ago) can outpoke anyone by maxing E. Long range point and click nuke and silence followed by an auto or two. W for heal and armor against autos. Maxing Q means you're looking for extended trades,and she was the best support at doing that. It's a bit similar to Nautilus E except way more damage.

No idea why maxing E didn't catch on back then. There was literally no counterplay.

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Nocturne buffs? Please no! I don't want him to get popular and receive net nerfs.

Bot lane didn't care about silencing one person as much since the ADC can still auto you, sustain supports just heal 1-2 times and shrug it off, and all ins just continue to all in after., Plus with support items it didn't do that much damage either. We are talking about something like...Silence + Soraka autos vs Sona Q + autos or Nami W + E empowered autos + chance for a Q stun. A quick silence wasn't a bad disengage per se but wasn't going to compare to a Janna tornado, Annie W stun or Nami Q either.

Plus, her Q was shorter/equal range to the harass from most of the supports you had to worry about poke from (especially Annie and Zyra which outranged her pretty easily). They weren't 'extended trades, they would straight up poke you down or snatch/hook/snag and mow down your ADC before you could ramp up Starfall damage. This was also back during the earlier days of Thresh + Leona not having gone through their multiple nerfs. They'd wreck you way faster than Starfall would wreck them.

i mean, i'm not really arguing any soraka is better cos i don't really like playing her myself, but i feel as an opponent pre and post rework she's boring af

Oh i agree, i still think as far as engaging supports go she's probably the most boring there is. Which is sad considering it will probably be a long time before they consider a rework to her rework.
 
Bot lane didn't care about silencing one person as much since the ADC can still auto you, sustain supports just heal 1-2 times and shrug it off, and all ins just continue to all in after., Plus with support items it didn't do that much damage either. We are talking about something like...Silence + Soraka autos vs Sona Q + autos or Nami W + E empowered autos + chance for a Q stun. A quick silence wasn't a bad disengage per se but wasn't going to compare to a Janna tornado, Annie W stun or Nami Q either.

Plus, her Q was shorter/equal range to the harass from most of the supports you had to worry about poke from (especially Annie and Zyra which outranged her pretty easily). They weren't 'extended trades, they would straight up poke you down or snatch/hook/snag and mow down your ADC before you could ramp up Starfall damage. This was also back during the earlier days of Thresh + Leona not having gone through their multiple nerfs. They'd wreck you way faster than Starfall would wreck them.



Oh i agree, i still think as far as engaging supports go she's probably the most boring there is. Which is sad considering it will probably be a long time before they consider a rework to her rework.

The thing is that Soraka E can outrange those skills. The silence gets long enough that you can E, walk into AA range then walk out / back into the brush. It also had a massive base damage. I think it capped at 275 base?

The point was not to disengage, but to remove all ability retaliations whenever you dictate a start of a trade. Sona cant trigger Q or Passive. Nami cant Q, W or E in response. By the time silence was over, youre already out of range.

W was great for offsetting retaliation with autos. E used to cost zero mana as well. You could easily and constantly harass for free.
 

drawkcaB

Member
Nocturne should be making an appearance again in high elo play again. I imagine Sterak's might be a really solid buy on his Paranoia engage. Shame the Zyra change hasn't been put on the PBE yet.
 

Kenai

Member
The thing is that Soraka E can outrange those skills. The silence gets long enough that you can E, walk into AA range then walk out / back into the brush. It also had a massive base damage. I think it capped at 275 base?

The point was not to disengage, but to remove all ability retaliations whenever you dictate a start of a trade. Sona cant trigger Q or Passive. Nami cant Q, W or E in response. By the time silence was over, youre already out of range.

W was great for offsetting retaliation with autos. E used to cost zero mana as well. You could easily and constantly harass for free.

I think the particular point you're referencing is different tham mine. That may have been when Blitz was an autoban and mos lanes were Thresh vs Leona, if memory serves.

In that case that just wouldn't happen. There was no walking up to them lol. Thresh would hook you and all in then you were fucked cause silence did nothing by that point in the trade, same with Leona. Thresh autos were passive empowered too, and leona had much better base regen than now and had a E hook that I am pretty sure was a shorter CD than Silence.

I am not trying to say she was unplayable (i think i was one of the few people that continued to Soraka support right up until rework with a Lucian/Cait main spamming Q), but I played almost exclusively support back then so I remember exactly why people said she sucked. She was all but forgotten bot right up until the "discovery" of her solo lane power in which all of the things you just listed actually became a serious threat with all of the extra gold fueled AP behind it. They were so damn worried about straddling her AP values following that that the original rework passive made part of her AP into Armor/MR.
 

garath

Member
wow. Skarner is so strong. I had a blast playing him. Only got a chance to do it in teambuilder though. He's perma banned in ranked and normals.

He needs a little tuning. Might be fun to play after though.
 

drawkcaB

Member
Skarner hotfix nerfs coming early next week, so that's good. I wonder if they'll tone things down or just remove certain changes wholesale and scale him back to his 2nd PBE iteration.
 

max.renn

Neo Member
Has anyone used the puppeteer item yet? I tried to put it on Morgana earlier but it wasnt available in the store. It sounds hella good, curious to see how / who people use it
 

max.renn

Neo Member
it may have been mentioned but mordekaiser can resurrect the dragon in team fights WTF, literally busted out laughing as i was killed in a team fight earlier
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Has anyone used the puppeteer item yet? I tried to put it on Morgana earlier but it wasnt available in the store. It sounds hella good, curious to see how / who people use it
This item was only available in the Blackmarket Brawl timed event. It was actually not very good, although the concept is interesting.
 
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