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League of Legends |OT10| Botlane Was A Mistake, It's Nothing But Thresh

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Z

zkylon

zkylewd
Dreams-Visions said:
zky, you were right. It's hard to win with LeBlanc.

Or perhaps better stated, it's incredibly hard to win playing from behind. And my teams kept falling behind all day. idk. certainly not the easiest champ to rescue a team from the jaws of defeat.
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she's an assassin and she needs to snowball to be relevant cos teamfights and sieges are bad for assassins or at least are harder for them to play and as the game goes on it becomes more and more about that

her waveclear is also very unreliable if her team's on the defensive and very much tied to her assassination potential, so you gotta give one up to get the other, similar to how lux's ult is balanced

she's actually not terrible at sieges cos her poke pattern is fairly safe and she can trade her cooldowns for sending a squishy back to base and get objectives off that, or just pick ppl off between turrets as your team's rotating from lane to lane. it's just more punishing than just mindlessly throwing poke on a <4s cd

someone like ziggs has a much easier time doing his job because he only needs to sit back and lob spells at the baddies in every scenario and even if he's struggling he can still provide waveclear and waveclear's always useful
 
N

Newt

Member
Leblanc difficult to carry.
0e212e11bd31150e75f2cf5c413cee9c.png
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D

Dreams-Visions

Member
zkylon said:
she's an assassin and she needs to snowball to be relevant cos teamfights and sieges are bad for assassins or at least are harder for them to play and as the game goes on it becomes more and more about that

her waveclear is also very unreliable if her team's on the defensive and very much tied to her assassination potential, so you gotta give one up to get the other, similar to how lux's ult is balanced

she's actually not terrible at sieges cos her poke pattern is fairly safe and she can trade her cooldowns for sending a squishy back to base and get objectives off that, or just pick ppl off between turrets as your team's rotating from lane to lane. it's just more punishing than just mindlessly throwing poke on a <4s cd

someone like ziggs has a much easier time doing his job because he only needs to sit back and lob spells at the baddies in every scenario and even if he's struggling he can still provide waveclear and waveclear's always useful
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I see. Yea, assassins are perhaps just not my cup of tea. I like being able to snowball, but I don't like being dependent upon snowballing. Which is odd because I'm really effective with Kassadin (now) and Ekko. idk. It's weird for the reality to be either you're snowballing or you're losing?
 
T

TheBritishBear

Banned
Dreams-Visions said:
I see. Yea, assassins are perhaps just not my cup of tea. I like being able to snowball, but I don't like being dependent upon snowballing. Which is odd because I'm really effective with Kassadin (now) and Ekko. idk. It's weird for the reality to be either you're snowballing or you're losing?
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Well, Kassadin and Ekko aren't typical assassins. Kassadin is built to scale and Ekko has a flexible build that he can be bursty, sustain or tanky.

Those two are really a different flavour of assassins. Usually for me, assassins thrive in the early and mid game, because they are designed to assassinate carries and snowball the lead. But Ekko and Kassadin's win conditions don't depend on that as heavily as other assassins.
 
P

Peanut Butter

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
I see. Yea, assassins are perhaps just not my cup of tea. I like being able to snowball, but I don't like being dependent upon snowballing. Which is odd because I'm really effective with Kassadin (now) and Ekko. idk. It's weird for the reality to be either you're snowballing or you're losing?
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I'm not sure if you already mentioned it earlier in the thread, but have you tried Zed and/or Talon? They don't necessarily need to snowball out of control to win games, but when they're ahead they're pretty dumb.
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
Dreams-Visions said:
I see. Yea, assassins are perhaps just not my cup of tea. I like being able to snowball, but I don't like being dependent upon snowballing. Which is odd because I'm really effective with Kassadin (now) and Ekko. idk. It's weird for the reality to be either you're snowballing or you're losing?
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it's not as binary but sorta, because of the way assassins scale. and by that i don't mean like the ap/ad ratios but like how their usefulness develops over a game. it's a power spikes thing

say someone like zed is really broken in lane but really bad at teamfights (and his ult can be canceled with zhonyas/qss) so later in the game all he has is splitpushing. to create splitpushing pressure you need to be pretty strong so you can threaten a kill. if you're not snowballing then the enemy team can just send their top laner to deal with you and you're not gonna do much more than deliver farm to them while he still has global pressure with tp. so yeah with zed you destroy lane or are absolute garbage. and eventually he'll fall off and be useless anyways, so gotta make something happen fairly quick

leblanc and fizz have a few more tools than zed, so they're a little better, but they're still on a timer until ppl get banshee's/zhonyas or start grouping up

ahri and ekko have more utility and reliable aoe dmg so they're even less reliant on snowballing and you can just go even in lane and then easily make up for it later on. they're obviously not gonna be as useful as someone like ori or lulu or viktor in teamfights/sieges but they're much better than lebonk

kassadin is just super item/level dependent so he doesn't have the pressure to make something in lane.

not all assassins are the same that's what i'm getting at :p

Levi Ackerman said:
I'm not sure if you already mentioned it earlier in the thread, but have you tried Zed and/or Talon? They don't necessarily need to snowball out of control to win games, but when they're ahead they're pretty dumb.
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this is pretty incorrect imo, zed is pretty much the worst assassin if he's not snowballing. he does absolutely nothing if he's not super fed.

talon is kinda similar, tho better
 
G

Ghost is Bad

Banned
nah since theyre both ad assassins and build ghostblade they can easily transition into rat gameplay with relative safety and farm enough items to become more relevant

talon can also just become an armor pen suicide bomber and turn ur fights into 4v4s after taking out a support or carry
 
P

Peanut Butter

Member
Zed being able to do nothing if not snowballing is a bit of a stretch because there's a difference between not snowballing and being behind/feeding like crazy. Of course a 0/9/0 Zed at 7 min isn't going to do anything for you, but a 0/0/0 Zed with 180 farm at 19 min isn't worthless because he still has gold and hasn't fed kills to his opponent.

If the player sees that he/she can't kill someone fast enough, it's not the end of the world seeing that splitpushing is a valid option, and both Talon/Zed can escape easily. Also, it's only a matter of time until either champion gets enough items to pick off a priority target during a fight with ease.
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
who are they gonna pick, if you have zhonyas/qss on your carries they're useless already

but this is a discussion to have when they fix ap items and stop giving a billion free arpen through masteries lol
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
like i said, they're still on a timer, they're just better off than zed and talon because they can do a few other things like be annoying and they actually have a tiny bit of cc to create picks of their own
 
G

Ghost is Bad

Banned
they arent on a timer because of pick potential tho. if ur smart with ur champ, u can play through qss zhonyas banshees (see: faker) and assassins falling off late game doesnt explain shit like kassadin whos basically the antimage of league of legends except he never falls off after 6 items.
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
Ghost is Bad said:
they arent on a timer because of pick potential tho. if ur smart with ur champ, u can play through qss zhonyas banshees (see: faker) and assassins falling off late game doesnt explain shit like kassadin whos basically the antimage of league of legends except he never falls off after 6 items.
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you're mixing up things here

kassadin is fine lategame because he has a scaling kit thanks to his ult being up all the time. ignore current champion balance for a bit and akali/kat (and to a degree, diana) are the same way thanks to resets. they're much better teamfighters because they have spell rotations every few seconds.

someone like zed has a really bad teamfighting kit cos his ult is on an 80s cooldown and without his ult he doesn't do shit. leblanc and fizz have better basic spells so they can stay relevant a little more, but they also have a lot of problems for being so ultimate reliant

and games of league are mostly resolved through teamfights, solo picks aren't as easy to do in a world in which blue trinket exists (and i mean season 5 blue trinket, not even the current nightmare lol) so unless you have cc to set someone up for your team to help you blow them up (like ahri charm) then you're gonna have trouble killing people that will happily just trade zhonyas or qss cooldowns with you and get helped by their team. at least with leblanc you can snare them and force their flash lol

and i don't even know why you mention faker, faker doesn't ever play zed, he plays leblanc -__-
 
P

Pancakes

hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Luigi87 said:
Purchasing a 790 Mystery Gift for myself to get a 975+ skin..
Get Exiled Morgana...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Luigi87/vanilla.jpg[/IG][/QUOTE]

League is suffering.

[Quote][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ZQ18diR.gif
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W

Wolf Akela

Member
I doubted our Veigar against Zed. He wasnt even attentive when I was trying to give him blue.

25 mins and 670AP later, he instagibbed enemy Mundo and caused 2 enemies to RQ.
 
G

garath

Member
TheFlow said:
yeah but my elo is taking a huge dive.
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It'll come back. When I started last season I placed gold III, got to gold II promos then went on such a nosedive. I lost 15 in a row and was at 0lp gold V. It seemed like there was nothing I could do to win. I took a ranked break. Played a lot of normals. Then climbed back to almost gold III before season ended.

You aren't alone :)
 
M

Moonlight

Banned
I like Ahri a lot, but since I'm midlane, it feels like I'm almost always out of my depth skill-wise, lol. Was like one game today where I felt like I had control over the lane. Everything else I was getting way too behind. Eventually got my first win today, but man, doesn't feel great. :v
 
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