i think u guys misinterpret design talk with balance talk way too often
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League of Legends |OT10| Botlane Was A Mistake, It's Nothing But Thresh
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
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i think u guys misinterpret design talk with balance talk way too often
Terbinator
Member
Heal that's trash.
Damage that's only allowed to be trash.
E that''s used to charge your passive than the ability itself.
R that's trash unless your on VOIP and isn't as useful as Janna/Nami.
Stone Ocean
Member
Having a good win rate in some ELOs doesn't mean you're in a good state
I think that's a bit harsh.
Sona is really oppressive when she has a good matchup.
The problem comes when she does not have a good matchup, since her kit is the way it is. She's really binary.
alright alright, I'm convinced. It's just that seeing the win rate graph drop so sharply with game length is a bit disheartening, but the same is more or less true with Koz, Ziggs and Malz, the other mid caster champs I own
what are the advantages of Syndra over the other poke/artillery mages, anyway? I'd just like to know which niche she fills currently
Stone Ocean
Member
She's a much better laner than any of them and late game she can snap a finger and kill any squishy out of position
She also has a very fast, very long range stun that if mastered can lead to excellent picks like any Thresh or Blitz hook would
She also has a very fast, very long range stun that if mastered can lead to excellent picks like any Thresh or Blitz hook would
My comment can be taken either way; I do not feel shes needs balance or design work at this time. There's many other champs way worse off then her
Yeah but we got champs that are low in all ELOs that desperately need attention
the reason caster mids have low late game winrates is their itemization scaling blows chunks right now
about the only efficient item they have over any other class is void staff, but if the damage falls off late anyway right now who cares about void staff
the utility on spooky ghost is the only reason it scales "well" even if the stats dont
about the only efficient item they have over any other class is void staff, but if the damage falls off late anyway right now who cares about void staff
the utility on spooky ghost is the only reason it scales "well" even if the stats dont
Targeted ult rather than skillshot.
Lux with frost queen is a nightmare
that's just how non hyperscaling mages go, if you don't have the consistent dmg of someone like azir or the utility of ori you're gonna get less relevant as the game progresses since you just cannot kill tanks
she's not really a poke mage, she's more similar to lux than someone like ziggs, she's a ranged assassin that creates picks with her qe combo and then oneshots them with ult.
she's also one of the meanest lane bullies in the game, she can make pretty much anyone rage if played correctly
she's also really fun to play because most of her spells you can cast while moving and also cos shitting on helpless suckers in lane feels really good. there's also lots of different things you can do with like ulting then e'ing a bunch of balls or just like ball stacking in a brush to get a 7 ball ult or like e'ing a ball that's mid air after you launched it with w, or just stealing buffs and scuttlers and other crap from junglers.
she's lots of fun
not very well balanced right now but really fun to play
that doesn't really matter, we're not riot, we don't have to take time constraints into account when discussing champion design.
and sona's is outdated and really difficult to balance
the good thing about spooky ghosts is that it gives you better mana regen than athenes for a lot less money which you can dump on rushing a ludens echo to keep up with the item race since all your other items got nerfed.
but even yeah the ap items rebalance was a disaster and made the class generally feel a lot worse to play, i don't know if mids' winrate by gametime looked any different before preseason. i would be surprised if it did tbh
that item on anyone is a nightmare, it's broken af
the only bad thing about syndra is that she tends to get really shitty skins but fortuntately art always finds the way
See, now that's a Smite champion.
Orochinagis
Member
I think Sona was more useful prework, she was able to push everything with her E, gives you a passive Magic resist or a damage boost without a shitty duration, making most of your team a easy target by focusing all their AoEs in Sona
Nami can outplayed her easily, Sona just simply pokes enemies to death until Mid game when she became useless and just wait for her R to do something.
Blonde Sona.
Nami can outplayed her easily, Sona just simply pokes enemies to death until Mid game when she became useless and just wait for her R to do something.
Blonde Sona.
Peanut Butter
Member
Come on Riot, make it happen.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
n0
hey jerks
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofle...at_is_riots_vision_for_the_last_whisper_line/
what do you think. is my assessment off base
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofle...at_is_riots_vision_for_the_last_whisper_line/
what do you think. is my assessment off base
Hmm, I rarely have this problem. Most duo I played with actually tend to carry games. Although I did play with duo who were awful just now and started feeding mid, bot and top.
Also, if you have to dodge, play Team Builder.
PhillipCostigan
Member
personally, I think LW is a much healthier item now than it was before. % armour penetration is meant to keep you relevant against tanks, but old LW with its % total armour penetration was incredible against squishies. With LW and some flat armour pen, you would be doing almost true damage to squishy champions which was not the intended use case of the item. It's supposed to be a way for you to counter armour stacking, not do more damage to people with very little armour.
It
Current LW might be undertuned, but it's now doing the job it was meant to do. It's meant as a way to get through tanks, but it's irrelevant against squishies.
So in terms of what the vision is, I think it's pretty clear. It's a way for you to chew through tanks and not squishies. Maybe it's not as powerful as it needs to be for that use case, but I think that's a numbers thing.
Honestly hope they do the same for Void Staff if they change AP items in the future. It's just pretty much always an incredibly efficient purchase and excels at nuking squishies maybe even more than it is useful against people stacking MR. Old Last Whisper was the same.
that's not even sona's hair style pls
i feel like you're seeing a problem where there is none
assassins being locked out of arpen stacking is fine cos that was making assassin itemization dumb (arpen stacking isn't interesting, intuitive or fun) and it overlapped with adcs in ways that made both classes difficult to balance
adcs buying last whisper later is not good or bad, it's just a change in direction for the item
and i don't think lw was any good before, it was a bundle of stats thing that was used against its purpose and to just add more burst for assassins that just didn't have actual items tailored to them. now they have the reworked maw and reworked youmuus that make more sense for them
itemization is a lot better and whatever problem there is is a numbers problem that can be easily fixed (unlike before where any change to last whisper affected multiple different classes, from top riven to mid zed to jungle lee sin to most adcs)
void staff is a crappy item and should be replaced by something more interesting but the approach should be different because ap itemization and ad itemizations are completely different beasts and have different needs and different effects
simplest case would be ad benefitting not only spells but also autoattacks, making ad champions scale way better than ap with raw numbers. similarly because ap champions are gated by cooldowns while ad champions (mostly) are not because of them always being able to autoattack, ap champions should be balanced around the highs of when they spellcast vs the lows when they're on cooldown (while ads are generally balanced around range because that's what gates their dmg). ap also doesn't have the problem of assassins or junglers or whatever abusing their items, ap assassins build pretty similar to regular mages anyways because both function kind of the same, really.
so that being said, void staff is still a crappy item because it's a bundle of stats item and those are always lame and boring. i also think the resistances vs penetration arms race is a absolutely boring thing so i'd rather whatever changes they make not be a stat check thing like it currently is.
I think your analysis of the item is not unreasonable, but I am not sure about your macro analysis of Riot's itemization goals. Making each item only a practical purchase for a specific class of champion in a specific situation is basically Riot's entire strategy for itemization right now. All of their changes to AD and AP itemization recently have been specifically to make it simpler to identify the items targeted for you and (necessarily) simpler to identify items that are NOT targeted for you and that you shouldn't buy. So LW being a niche pick for ADCs and physical damage assassins is basically right in line with their design principles.
It might not be supposed to be quite as niche as it is now, but it will always be pretty limited in its current form because it's dependent on opponent itemization decisions to be useful. So a little bit of tweaking is probably appropriate and just a little bit more gold efficiency will probably put it back in a reasonably good spot, so that when you see Thornmail start popping up on people, LDR is a good response. But I think, in terms of whether it's supposed to be an easy sensible pick for a bunch of different champs in different roles and lanes, basically no items are supposed to be that any more.
In fact, if anything, I'd expect the next changes to LW tree items to make them even more differentiated, because the next big itemization pass will probably be for assassins. I wouldn't be surprised to see the two LW items made even more obviously "this is the ADC one" and "this is the assassin one", which probably means them both being even more niche than they are currently.
Black-Wind
Member
Hey, as a result of a job lead I very recently started looking at Moba games.
Started playing LoL like last week and I LOVE IT! But I don't really know what I'm doing. I feel like I could really enjoy this game if I could learn more about it. Not really sure where to start.
For example, I knew about Jinx because I saw the music video they made for her. So I was super happy to see that she's a "free character" when I started playing. Played a decent amount of games with her the first day ... came to find that the free characters are a rotating selection and I'd have to buy her if I wanna play her. She cost a good bit of IP so I got Annie with my IP cause I over heard friends saying she's an easy character some years ago. She's pretty simple but I don't really like her ... so I started playing with other characters in the free selection.
Tried Rengar but I got a lot of hate because I didn't know the roles at the time and tried to share top instead of jungle ... (against bots I might add. I have yet to try PVP and it blows my mind the mount of ridicule you can get in this game doing stuff in Beginner Co-op v AI. 2nd time I tried to Jungle with him I got laughed at by 2 people until I told em that yeah, IDK how to play him which is why I'm playing against the computer ... they then started speaking in Spanish).
Because of that I pretty much only played support Janna up til now because in my experience no one ever expects much from support so I could just relax and learn more about the game through being a more passive observer without getting yelled at. In all my matches with her only twice have people factored me into their plays ... I mostly just chill and CC and try to save people with my speed buff + backward Tornado combo. But in my latest matches yesterday I was getting better at understand the ins-and-outs of the game and started playing with more confidence, doing stuff I feel an active support does. But I don't want to get stuck on that role.
My main questions are ... what are some good characters to start learning the game with? Lots of stuff I watch about this game to learn more about it are all out dated now (like the "mastery" system and such are different and some characters have had changes over the years). Though I really enjoyed Jinx and wanted to buy her with IP I noticed that Runes are important and cost IP. I would like to be able to start making 2 "generic" tier 3 rune pages when ever I hit level 20 so I'm gonna save my IP. Could by her with RP but I see on their site that they're having a deal on her sometime next month so I figured I should try something else until then.
Also, when's a good time to start PvP? I feel like I should only start when I have a good handle on at least 1-2 character/ roles and decent understanding of the game.
Started playing LoL like last week and I LOVE IT! But I don't really know what I'm doing. I feel like I could really enjoy this game if I could learn more about it. Not really sure where to start.
For example, I knew about Jinx because I saw the music video they made for her. So I was super happy to see that she's a "free character" when I started playing. Played a decent amount of games with her the first day ... came to find that the free characters are a rotating selection and I'd have to buy her if I wanna play her. She cost a good bit of IP so I got Annie with my IP cause I over heard friends saying she's an easy character some years ago. She's pretty simple but I don't really like her ... so I started playing with other characters in the free selection.
Tried Rengar but I got a lot of hate because I didn't know the roles at the time and tried to share top instead of jungle ... (against bots I might add. I have yet to try PVP and it blows my mind the mount of ridicule you can get in this game doing stuff in Beginner Co-op v AI. 2nd time I tried to Jungle with him I got laughed at by 2 people until I told em that yeah, IDK how to play him which is why I'm playing against the computer ... they then started speaking in Spanish).
Because of that I pretty much only played support Janna up til now because in my experience no one ever expects much from support so I could just relax and learn more about the game through being a more passive observer without getting yelled at. In all my matches with her only twice have people factored me into their plays ... I mostly just chill and CC and try to save people with my speed buff + backward Tornado combo. But in my latest matches yesterday I was getting better at understand the ins-and-outs of the game and started playing with more confidence, doing stuff I feel an active support does. But I don't want to get stuck on that role.
My main questions are ... what are some good characters to start learning the game with? Lots of stuff I watch about this game to learn more about it are all out dated now (like the "mastery" system and such are different and some characters have had changes over the years). Though I really enjoyed Jinx and wanted to buy her with IP I noticed that Runes are important and cost IP. I would like to be able to start making 2 "generic" tier 3 rune pages when ever I hit level 20 so I'm gonna save my IP. Could by her with RP but I see on their site that they're having a deal on her sometime next month so I figured I should try something else until then.
Also, when's a good time to start PvP? I feel like I should only start when I have a good handle on at least 1-2 character/ roles and decent understanding of the game.
- when is good to start pvp: as soon as possible, coop vs ai teaches you some bad habits and is also really boring. ppl are gonna flame you, that's just how it goes, just remember you can press tab and click on the speech bubble to ignore ppl
- runes: don't bother with runes, don't think about them too much. by the time you'll get to lvl 20-30 you can start thinking about runes and buying the essentials but early on forget about runes. definitely don't spend ip on this right now
- jinx and janna are good noob champions. jinx is pretty fun and easy to play. you can start out looking at the cheaper champions that cost 450ip like sivir, master yi, etc. those are so cheap you can buy them and try them out even if you don't like them, like you did with annie
- don't play rengar
- runes: don't bother with runes, don't think about them too much. by the time you'll get to lvl 20-30 you can start thinking about runes and buying the essentials but early on forget about runes. definitely don't spend ip on this right now
- jinx and janna are good noob champions. jinx is pretty fun and easy to play. you can start out looking at the cheaper champions that cost 450ip like sivir, master yi, etc. those are so cheap you can buy them and try them out even if you don't like them, like you did with annie
- don't play rengar
Ghost is Bad
Banned
dw man just hmu on any of my 1000000 smurfs and ill support ur ass through levels 1-5
Black-Wind
Member
Ok, thanks! looking at the shop and I think I'll try Warwick and Sivir sometime tmr. I have 6302 IP right now so I guess I should use it to get use to some different kinds of characters than I'm use to so far.
Oh, I'm level 12 now but thanks!
Ghost is Bad
Banned
what the fuck i make another smurf and i still get fucking sweetheart annie
when you are a jungler one of the lanes will blame u.
Peanut Butter
Member
People always pop off on Junglers and Supports to a point where it just becomes part of the experience.
Manus
Member
If you wanna learn jungle Nunu is the way to go. His jungle clear is super easy and he's tanky.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
then dont save him lel
sivir is pretty great, warwick is a good starter jungler but really boring imo
poppy is 450 and really fun tho she's kinda weak atm. keep an eye on her if she gets buffed in future patches. i also like sion quite a lot and he's 450 too
Ghost is Bad
Banned
or just be like me
play soraka :^)
play soraka :^)
lol went 5/11 but won as kindred jungle
got better but no more ranked with her till I learn how to switch prey better. my stacks were at 5 35 mins in which is terrible.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
i mean i got started by doing the hard shit first so the easy things came naturally. that means spamming thresh all the time so shit like janna or sona who take 0 mechanics to play were like childs play
i got like 3 irelia skins in my snowdown on 2 of my smurfs that i do play irelia on
i also got like 3 irelia skins in my snowdown that i never ever play irelia on
Ghost is Bad
Banned
i didnt even play on the account yet
so far ive gotten sweetheart annie on every single fkn snowdown sale
so far ive gotten sweetheart annie on every single fkn snowdown sale
Peanut Butter
Member
That's a pretty cool pic, but her proportions are too normal to be splash art for League =P
Don't save your laners as the jungler. Your objective is to get a laner fed, not to prevent all enemies from getting fed. Think of yourself as a middle manager. You don't want to spend all your time trying to help your underperformer. Just fire that guy and use your management energy to enable your actually good guys to succeed.
oh wait i just remembered tsuaii's and sakimichan's luxes
well all art is beautiful
why must there be a winner
when i am clearly the winner
her back is not bent in a painful way so not rito material i guess
still pretty sexy tho
i love this picture and the more muted slight redesign of spellthief lux
well all art is beautiful
why must there be a winner
when i am clearly the winner
it's less about proportion and more about pose
her back is not bent in a painful way so not rito material i guess
still pretty sexy tho
i love this picture and the more muted slight redesign of spellthief lux
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