• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

League of Legends |OT10| Botlane Was A Mistake, It's Nothing But Thresh

Status
Not open for further replies.
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
patchday said:
lol I love this post :)
Click to expand...

yeah like it's hilariously appropriate

Stone Ocean said:
Active items are the best things supports can ask for because they give utility regardless of stats
Click to expand...
active items are the best cos they're fun and involved. they can have big strong effects like zhonyas or mikaels because they have high cooldowns and you feel great when you use them

something like ardent censer or zekes is like ok i build this and someone else is stronger regardless of what i do. i just have to be in the vicinity and not be a total idiot!

whoop-dee-doo
 
P

pigeon

Banned
I'm sad that they never managed to make Ardent Censer good. It's been like a year and a half! Just give it +10 AP whenever you heal somebody already.

It still lets Janna give turrets attack speed right?
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
you risk making it really good on kayle or something if you give it more ap

it's just a really boring item either way, just throw it out like ohmwrecker
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
dunno if he/she is bronze or not, but that sure is a bronze-like attitude

use some more judgement and analysis than just experience. why would that item would be good when its uses are so limited? why doesn't anyone really build it? why does anyone say it's shit?

don't just blindly go with what's worked cos it might've worked in a situation in which anything could've worked
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
i'm permanent plat 2 limbo. i've been there for what feels like a year now. you don't know the kind of shit rex and i see in ranked man, you don't know.
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
faridmon said:
Yes I am bronze :(
Click to expand...
that's fine, some of my best friends are bronze!
actually no, i kind of hate the bronze 2 guy i know

it's ok if you're bronze, just don't try and convince ppl of things that you only know through experience because your experience in bronze if probably not the right field to test your theories on.

if you got like math and stuff or like "hey guys what do you think of X?" that's great tho, but i feel like if you're bronze you should probably be taking advice, not giving it :p
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
zky's post in summation:

image.php


"Bitch, please."
 
P

patchday

Member
Nekofrog said:
zCeFYcC.png


i dont post match results much anymore, but holy shit this game.
Click to expand...

I know I probably never said anything but I always looked forward to your post game screen shots. I vividly remember you posting shots of post game Irelia and Shen. Back then I couldnt wait to acquire those champs and see what I could do with them

tl;dr - post screenies; even tho some of us might not comment we do read and enjoy them

edit- oh right- I could just follow you on na.op.gg
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
Nekofrog said:
zky's post in summation:

image.php


"Bitch, please."
Click to expand...
i love it!

patchday said:
I know I probably never said anything but I always looked forward to your post game screen shots. I vividly remember you posting shots of post game Irelia and Shen. Back then I couldnt wait to acquire those champs and see what I could do with them

tl;dr - post screenies; even tho some of us might not comment we do read and enjoy them

edit- oh right- I could just follow you on na.op.gg
Click to expand...

image.php


"Bitch, please."

i never read them lol
 
P

pigeon

Banned
zkylon said:
you risk making it really good on kayle or something if you give it more ap

it's just a really boring item either way, just throw it out like ohmwrecker
Click to expand...

Ohmwrecker is better than it's ever been! (Still not good.)

Honestly they should just make Ohmwrecker one of the support upgrade item abilities.

FQC = spooky ghosts
Targon's = Ohmwrecker
Coin = I dunno, ZZrot

edit: Also, Ardent Censer should be reworked into a gp5 item for healing supports. Everybody wins!
 
P

pigeon

Banned
patchday said:
^^ lol zky

Think I am improving with Shen even though we lost:
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2053690802/36583

got 231 CS with him. But lost my lane due to one fatal mistake. Towards late game we pushed mid (cause us pubs love mid) and was about to pop their inhibitor. But we wqere fools and got killed during a bad dive. We all got ace'd and my nemesis (Renekton) casually tore down all my turrets in my lane ;(
Click to expand...

This is super common. Number one mistake in low elo is fighting when you shouldn't fight. The most obvious is the eternal mid push. Got the inner turret? Let's go to inhib! Got inhib turret? Let's stay and get inhib. Got the inhib! I guess we should try to end! Just don't do that stuff. You'll probably be right more often assuming you always have to leave after an objective than you will assuming you can always stay.

Unfortunately number two mistake in low elo is not fighting when you should fight, so.
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
pigeon said:
Ohmwrecker is better than it's ever been! (Still not good.)

Honestly they should just make Ohmwrecker one of the support upgrade item abilities.

FQC = spooky ghosts
Targon's = Ohmwrecker
Coin = I dunno, ZZrot
Click to expand...
ehh, i feel like you're messing with actives that are strong and interesting already

ohmwrecker is just bad cos it's situational af. if they allowed it to buff your own turrets it could be more interesting, specially on something like an azir comp but still, really situational in comparison to BIG SHIELD or BIG AOE MS BOOST
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
pigeon said:
This is super common. Number one mistake in low elo is fighting when you shouldn't fight. The most obvious is the eternal mid push. Got the inner turret? Let's go to inhib! Got inhib turret? Let's stay and get inhib. Got the inhib! I guess we should try to end! Just don't do that stuff. You'll probably be right more often assuming you always have to leave after an objective than you will assuming you can always stay.

Unfortunately number two mistake in low elo is not fighting when you should fight, so.
Click to expand...

Its not just low elo that does that. It's so common even in high plat that I want to punch people. That lucian in that screen shot just kept lingering after every team objective and push even if the rest of the team all left together as a unit, then he'd die because he wanted those last 2 cs or the enemy wolves as they were respawning with home guards.
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
the worst part is, those people don't learn from their own mistakes in game in real time. they just keep doing it over and over and over with the same goddamn result, making the game harder by the minute.
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
Nekofrog said:
Its not just low elo that does that. It's so common even in high plat that I want to punch people. That lucian in that screen shot just kept lingering after every team objective and push even if the rest of the team all left together as a unit, then he'd die because he wanted those last 2 cs or the enemy wolves as they were respawning with home guards.
Click to expand...

agreed, it's not just a low elo thing

Nekofrog said:
the worst part is, those people don't learn from their own mistakes in game in real time. they just keep doing it over and over and over with the same goddamn result, making the game harder by the minute.
Click to expand...
learning from mistakes real-time is kind of hard to do because of how much the game throws at you

people are not ready to do it because when they win it's because they've done the same thing over and over and it worked, so they never really learn anything else

playing from behind's complicated as it is and idiots with solo carry mentality don't make it any easier and me being one such idiot i often have such issues like recalling at bad spots and being overeager and trying to do too much and if you don't have someone to tell you "relax, you should do x thing instead" then you're not always sure what to do or what you're doing wrong. you'll place the blame on someone else for not being on the same page or not taking the initiative

what you really need is someone with good game sense and you need that to be yourself but that's one of the hardest things to learn
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
i just wish ppl would remember this is a team game and if you're doing bad because you're camped or something it's likely someone else is doing good because you're taking all the jungler pressure

i try to remind myself that even tho league is a game that's really painful to play when you feel powerless (aka invisible fed rengar oneshotting you with no counterplay)
 
E

Edwardo

Member
Nekofrog said:
Its not just low elo that does that. It's so common even in high plat that I want to punch people. That lucian in that screen shot just kept lingering after every team objective and push even if the rest of the team all left together as a unit, then he'd die because he wanted those last 2 cs or the enemy wolves as they were respawning with home guards.
Click to expand...

Every single game
 
P

pigeon

Banned
zkylon said:
i just wish ppl would remember this is a team game and if you're doing bad because you're camped or something it's likely someone else is doing good because you're taking all the jungler pressure

i try to remind myself that even tho league is a game that's really painful to play when you feel powerless (aka invisible fed rengar oneshotting you with no counterplay)
Click to expand...

This is the thing I find most fascinating about MOBAs, they're a game where social skills and people management are actually almost as important as twitch/micro. You're dropped into a group of 5 randoms, the other team is also 5 randoms, you're all approximately equally skilled, so the game is really about whether your team of 5 can organize, communicate, and support each other better than the other team of 5, or whether you will just fall apart into blame, disagreement, and split pushing. Which is totally about learned skills, not magic or luck.

But it's really hard for a lot of people to understand, not just that they need to improve their social/emotional intelligence, but that League is a social game at all! The classic example is when you see somebody throw up a surrender because they're 0/3 in lane even though your team is like 10/4. Because they're losing in lane they can't even see that they're winning the game -- if they aren't in position to dominate then the game must be basically over. This is the 1v9 mentality.

tldr if you are losing probably l2manage people in an office environment
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
pigeon said:
This is the thing I find most fascinating about MOBAs, they're a game where social skills and people management are actually almost as important as twitch/micro. You're dropped into a group of 5 randoms, the other team is also 5 randoms, you're all approximately equally skilled, so the game is really about whether your team of 5 can organize, communicate, and support each other better than the other team of 5, or whether you will just fall apart into blame, disagreement, and split pushing. Which is totally about learned skills, not magic or luck.

But it's really hard for a lot of people to understand, not just that they need to improve their social/emotional intelligence, but that League is a social game at all! The classic example is when you see somebody throw up a surrender because they're 0/3 in lane even though your team is like 10/4. Because they're losing in lane they can't even see that they're winning the game -- if they aren't in position to dominate then the game must be basically over. This is the 1v9 mentality.

tldr if you are losing probably l2manage people in an office environment
Click to expand...
yeah i feel like rito should take everyone in each server for a camping trip so we can bond and learn not to hate each other

also yeah i've literally ran into situations like ppl asking for surrender cos they're 0/2 when the game's literally like 16/2

i blame mostly early streamers teaching players really bad habits and mentality and riot for not stepping up earlier to try and teach people right. both streamers and rito have been steadying course over the years but there's so much more that could be done

i wonder how detrimental would something like a "lead indicator" be for the game. like something like giving players stars every time they complete some sort of indicative of them doing well (like kills or cs or getting x money or x items or whatever). probably really hard to do well and i imagine a lot of backlash of ppl calling it dumbing down but i'd be interested to see how difficult it would be to implement and what effect would it have on people's appreciation of the game.

cos like, i feel like if ppl could see the big picture of games and not just themselves, at a glance, they would probably act a lot more rationally and play better in general
 
P

patchday

Member
anyone have that link where it shows the stats how in low-mid elo people group in mid and in higher elos (plat+) they go with more diverse strats?
 
P

pigeon

Banned
zkylon said:
yeah i feel like rito should take everyone in each server for a camping trip so we can bond and learn not to hate each other

also yeah i've literally ran into situations like ppl asking for surrender cos they're 0/2 when the game's literally like 16/2

i blame mostly early streamers teaching players really bad habits and mentality and riot for not stepping up earlier to try and teach people right. both streamers and rito have been steadying course over the years but there's so much more that could be done
Click to expand...

This makes sense, but I also think that people (especially late teens early twenties i.e. the target audience) are just typically bad at soft skills (that's literally why they are called soft skills, because people don't understand them as skills) because they don't get much opportunity to learn them except via practical use. But maybe now that MOBAs are mainstream we will see lots of gamers with better soft skills because they're actually rewarded for them?

zkylon said:
i wonder how detrimental would something like a "lead indicator" be for the game. like something like giving players stars every time they complete some sort of indicative of them doing well (like kills or cs or getting x money or x items or whatever). probably really hard to do well and i imagine a lot of backlash of ppl calling it dumbing down but i'd be interested to see how difficult it would be to implement and what effect would it have on people's appreciation of the game.

cos like, i feel like if ppl could see the big picture of games and not just themselves, at a glance, they would probably act a lot more rationally and play better in general
Click to expand...

This is an interesting idea. You're right that my immediate reaction is that it's a little bit dumbing down, mostly because almost every piece of information about global game state is already accessible by pressing Tab. People just don't process and use that information well.

It might be interesting to actually put in the team gold totals when you press tab, the way that they have them in LCS. That is probably one of the stronger overall status indicators, and one of the hardest things to back out from Tab (CS value values, assist value varies, basically you have to roughly calculate the value of everybody's inventory).

patchday said:
anyone have that link where it shows the stats how in low-mid elo people group in mid and in higher elos (plat+) they go with more diverse strats?
Click to expand...

The funny thing is I keep seeing Aphromoo complain about this on his stream in challenger elo. Basically, whenever people aren't really sure what to do next, they hang out in mid. It just happens way more at low elo because people never know what to do. But even at high elo people sometimes just head to mid and go, what do you want to do? I dunno, what do you want to do?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Riot Games is laying off even more workers on the League of Legends team.
17
862
jakinov replied
$400 Faker bundle is League of Legends’ most expensive digital pack ever
Drama Community
14
2K
The Cockatrice replied
League of Legends players are already claiming Vanguard anti-cheat is bricking their PCs
Drama Hardware
16
2K
The Cockatrice replied
Apex Legends is taking away its support for the Steam Deck and Linux
11
648
Wolzard replied
Song of Nunu: A League of Legends Story | Review Thread
Analysis Review
4
1K
killatopak replied
Top Bottom