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League of Legends |OT10| Botlane Was A Mistake, It's Nothing But Thresh
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
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Mostmanlyman
Member
That's why I don't design champs.
proper design utilises the concept of a 'power budget'. when a champion is incredibly versatile, as in the ability to do two opposite things but scale at both - it takes away from the 'power budget'
damage/support modes - you have two choices:
1. skills are reasonably powered - form swap must be on a large cooldown to pay for the power of the skills + the versatility
2. form swap on a low cooldown - the skills have to be really weak to pay for the versatility
in design 1, you're making it hard for the player to enjoy the champion because they basically have 3 skills most of the time. choice 1 is similar to gnar, who trades the ability to control his mode swap for more power. also - tank + damage is less versatile than damage + heal which gives gnar some power back too.
design 2, nobody likes weak ass skills. sona is a good example of choice 2 - however she only has 4 abilities, so you will lose even more by having access to 6.
you can make all the spells really short ranged/melee, make the champion melee with limited mobility to account and ignore the two choices above, but then I question what's the point of having shitty low ranged damage spells and no mobility
Very interesting post. Thanks for this
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
I beat Dark souls yesterday and parried the shit out of the final boss. And I just beat the first Dlc of destiny today.
So now I'm gonna try the patch and see if i can beat ranked.
So now I'm gonna try the patch and see if i can beat ranked.
Mostmanlyman
Member
Congrats dude.
nah, i think they could've just done a lot more with a normal champion kit
like the w - q interaction is neat, but e is meh, and q and w outside of that interaction are meh too.
ult is a cool spell but is could've easily been bard's ult or whatever
passive just feels like a jungle enabler thing
i mean, melee / ranged has been kind of a disaster too lol, with champions like jayce just taking the best out of both worlds and shit
but i don't think form changers are that interesting anyways, so not necessarily a fan of that approach for kindred either.
like say elise or nidalee they have two forms but it's not like you have to do much thinking about which form to use, it's basically just a champion with 6 spells instead of 4, which is fine, but not really cool enough, specially cos all form changers kind of have this mashallthebuttons mode in which they just exhaust all their ranged spells and then do the same with melee which isn't super interesting :/
u should do ng+
you'll breeze thru it and it's really enjoyable to see everything again now that you've mastered it
kind of feels like an epilogue to your adventure, like looking back and seeing how capra demon felt impossible once and now he can't even hit you, that kind of thing
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
I learned to parry with a target shield just to beat that boss and almost felt bad about it.
I could just fight the tauras demon but i dont want to waste anymore time with a 4 year old game because yo, new videogamez tho.
second part of patch rundown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ooyo6CWXN3Y
apparently they're now gonna do it split into two, one part is like about the idea behind the patch, the other part is gonna be more nitty gritty balance changes and stuffs
or something
i think it's cool, i always wished patch rundowns were longer and more in-depth
i still gotta finish my no-shield run, i got stuck trying to kill smough first for some reason, i think i'm just gonna do ornstein first and move on with the game
apparently they're now gonna do it split into two, one part is like about the idea behind the patch, the other part is gonna be more nitty gritty balance changes and stuffs
or something
i think it's cool, i always wished patch rundowns were longer and more in-depth
i mean, can't think of that many new games that are better, so ehh...
i still gotta finish my no-shield run, i got stuck trying to kill smough first for some reason, i think i'm just gonna do ornstein first and move on with the game
wat
elise takes some pretty high skill
sure her 'damage rotation' can be pretty faceroll, but that's what a lot of spell based damage can seem like
I think the problem with kindred's abilities is that Wolf detaches from Lamb and persists on the map when the W is cast
E could've easily been expressed as Wolf grabbing people to slow them and boosting Kindred's hit on them for 3 hits... but how would that work with the current W?
Q could've been expressed as a dash where wolf flies off and bites the closest target + an arc around it... again, how does that affect the current W?
The W is pretty cool, and makes Wolf feel like he "exists" but as it is has defined the rest of Kindred's spells, preventing them from designing a Wolf more involved in the rest of the abilities.
The alternative is to create a zone of chaos like trundle's W where wolf becomes 'unchained' and dissipates, appearing to attack somebody and disappearing again
as someone that used to like elise a lot i never understood why ppl say she's so hard to play. like you cocoon and press all the buttons, what's so difficult about that. no tricky skillshots, not that many situational spells, etc.
like the super difficult thing about her is how impossibly annoying her autoing animation is lol
..
kindred's spells, i duno, vfx are one thing i guess
i just think her kit doesn't give wolf as much of the spotlight, and the visual design is that way too
like the super difficult thing about her is how impossibly annoying her autoing animation is lol
..
kindred's spells, i duno, vfx are one thing i guess
i just think her kit doesn't give wolf as much of the spotlight, and the visual design is that way too
She has two ways to enter a gank and they involve different patterns. the judgement of which to use is more involved than most junglers
pull off the rappel to minion and stun
volatile spider into spider Q for those in minion fights
pull off tower dives to abuse her early game cos her late game is lacklustre
spell dodge with rappel since hers has more delay than trollpole n pool
I think you're looking at her at way too much as a damage source, like shes a mid laner or something.
i dunno, i mean, yea she might be more complicated than like jarvan or whatever but that's not saying much
She's more complicated than 50% of the cast
her forms are more than melee vs ranged
she has to choose between cc vs mobility/survivability where as nid/jayce choose between the range of their damage
nid gets mobility vs healing but those are both ways of saying 'I want to stay alive'
elise's "live" spell is tied to her mobility spell so you need to make sure you don't need it before you dash in and mid game, her cc is most effective with her mobility spell, which locks her out of her damage
elise has trade offs depending on spell order whilst nid and jayce just have binary patterns of poke or all in
her forms are more than melee vs ranged
she has to choose between cc vs mobility/survivability where as nid/jayce choose between the range of their damage
nid gets mobility vs healing but those are both ways of saying 'I want to stay alive'
elise's "live" spell is tied to her mobility spell so you need to make sure you don't need it before you dash in and mid game, her cc is most effective with her mobility spell, which locks her out of her damage
elise has trade offs depending on spell order whilst nid and jayce just have binary patterns of poke or all in
Two hand uchigatana is the best shit in that game. I really dislike using shields for some reason tho. I made it about halfway through ng+ then got too anxious to start ds2
don't agree
all ur saying i feel are subtleties other champions have too, and like i think ur giving her too much credit.
like poke or all in is nida and jayce, but that's elise too. throw cocoons until one lands, then mash, there's no reason to turn spider in a gank if u failed ur coccoon.
on pressure to gank early, u can say the same about pantheon. i duno about different gank techniques or whatever, but i don't think that makes her super deep
and i duno, more complicated than 50% of the roster isn't saying much imo. like 50% of the roster is pretty lame lol
edit: also you're confusing me cos you're comparing elise to junglers then jayce/nidalee
i don't like katanas much, i generally use rapiers/swords/spears and bigger two handed stuff like greatswords. i'm also a huge fan of twohanding lifehunt scythe, it's my favorite weapon in the series
my build was like a rapier and off hand parry dagger that i sometimes switched for a talisman so i could goof around with force lol
sadly ps4s in argieland are like 800usd so no bloodborne for me :<Now play Bloodborne
Dark Souls was so great tho. I loved being a Darkwraith. Pvp was incredible
tho i've seen some of the spiders in that game and i dunno if i can play it anyways :T
well isn't that the problem with our discussion
elise is almost all about her ganks.
sure, any scrub can just splooge her stun on someone and mash buttons like some pleb can button mash riven with some success.
Orochinagis
Member
It would be too hard or too useless.
i mean
she has two techniques, one that is literally walking up and throwing coccoon. and if there are minions in the middle rappel first
she's not freaking lee sin
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
why not get an import? they are all region free.
They would do this right after I've grinded most of those shatty runes. Those prices were plain dumb really
decision making maybe, mechanics and skill ceiling no
i feel like "decision making" overall is overrated, lots of champions share similar decision making requirements etc
edit: i guess skill ceiling is too vague, so ignore that
we have 40% tax on imports plus we can only import 2 things per year so i duno
also there's always the risk that someone at customs will just steal it
like saving 200 usd or something for all that stress is probably not worth it for the kind of neurotic person i am
Elise is not difficult to find success with but has potential in her kit for outplay and variety in ganking patterns. Each champion has a set of conditions they need to consider when ganking a lane ex) waiting for a flash before using a certain skill, landing a skill, when to use their gap closer and other examples . Elise and lee sin have more flexible approaches than most Junglers because of multiple ways to layer abilities.I gotta disagree with you guys; Elise is pretty difficult champion to learn. Since she has a transformation that means she's got a lot more skills to learn.
but im not gonna bother to argue that point any further cause I know everyone's got their own opinions
Woah watch out we have a Lee sin pro here
Peanut Butter
Member
league champion design lately
so good
We dota now boys
Ghost is Bad
Banned
nah give kindred the clinkz ult and i'll admit it.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Wow. I forgot Aatrox existed
Aatrox forgot he existed too, tbh.
yea she looks like one of my couriers.
killatopak
Gold Member
Aatrox was actually my main way way back when I didn't even know anything about item builds. I have fond memories of him cuz he gave me my first penta. I think I bought him around the time Kalista was released.
He was pretty good back when split pushing was meta cause he can stay in lane forever.
He was pretty good back when split pushing was meta cause he can stay in lane forever.
Wolf Akela
Member
So many lucky perfect TPs hnggghh
At least it's current HP and not max HP, right, right.
Even with an endgame build soloing baron in 5 seconds is insane.
PhillipCostigan
Member
it's also worth pointing out that the Kindred in the video has 40 passive stacks because free counter jungling
That is an absurd boost in damage that is unrealistic in any normal game.
That is an absurd boost in damage that is unrealistic in any normal game.
How much damage does Kindred gain right now from each stack?
Stone Ocean
Member
1.25% current health
PhillipCostigan
Member
1.25% of the target's current health. So with 40 stacks that's 50% of the target's current health.
I would be surprised if people even get 20 stacks in a normal game unless they're just dominating the enemy jungler, in which case the game would end quickly anyway.
All right, thanks. That is indeed quite absurd. I wonder what number of stacks is normal in mid game. 8-12?
PhillipCostigan
Member
in a 30-40 minute game I'd wager maybe 12ish, 15 or more if you're winning hard.
It all depends on how much you get to counter-jungle and how proactive you are at killing the enemy you have your passive on. You could end up with less if you use your passive for mind games.
Also since your passive is visible to the enemy team, they know which camps you're going to counterjungle so you can be really starved.
But yeah. That video is a full damage build Kindred (not sure how common it will be) with double or more the amount of stacks a normal Kindred would have.
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