yeah, u really need champion with good cc in ur team (nat, amumu, udyr) to make him work.
still, an excellent character all around.
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- Thread starter SouthernDragon
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yeah, u really need champion with good cc in ur team (nat, amumu, udyr) to make him work.
still, an excellent character all around.
Only on Jayce's hammer to differentiate it from your crossbow.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
SafeinSound
Member
He doesn't seem that complicated to me. I wish I didn't just drop all my IP on Ezreal last week.
What on earth are you talking about?
1. Udyr is a terrible ganker, one of the few junglers with absolutely no gap closer besides flash. Using him as an example is just laughable (plus if Udyr gets in range for the knockback then he has a chance of stunning before the knockback happens).
2. The jump is ONLY an offensive move, not to wards or minions or anything. It can slow, yes, but you have to jump into someone's face and then try to run away while they're slowed. Someone with a root or stun or nuke should be able to hit you after you close the distance unless you use jump + knockback to harass (I'm not sure if I tried this combo much). Compared to someone like Katarina, Ahri, Jax, Lee Sin, maybe Riven etc. those champions have even more escape besides speed boost. *edit* If someone ganks behind you you can jump to them, so I correct myself on this as it could be used as escape in this fashion.
3. The hard CC you mention is the short range knockback. It is not a stun like many top laners, nor long range like Ahri.
From my own playing, I imagine he will be nerfed because of everyone complaining (though I guess everyone almost always complains about new champions), but he seems relatively balanced because of two weaknesses -- no stun and no escape besides speed boost. If you stick to ranged form and play like an AD carry then it might work ok, but then you don't get the defensive boosts.
Don't forget that Graves was a ranged AD carry that got tanky stat boosts, had a slow, a gap closer that worked on offense or defense and could go through walls, and could completely prevent the enemy from seeing anything in the game.
Oh, and the other weakness, no ult/finisher. Compared to someone like Riven, Caitlyn, Graves, Miss Fortune, Darius, most AP carries, etc., he has to rely on pokes and sustained damage.
He does actually seem rather fun to play, which is rare for me, so I guess I should hope that he remains somewhat viable if he does get nerfed into the ground so he can still be fun without people hating you for choosing him.
SouthernDragon
Member
hahahaha holy shit
He can Jungle, go Bruiser top, or AD carry bot?
I <3 JAYCE
He can Jungle, go Bruiser top, or AD carry bot?
I <3 JAYCE
EclipseGST
Member
a game in which our team leader bans only 2 champs and thinks he is on his third ban and picks jax, a champ he never played and asks who can switch with him so I say i'll change i guess, but i haven't played jax since his overhaul. At one point we are down by 20 kills and we make a comeback to win because their ahri is always farming or away. Our ashe gets a penta kill at baron and ashe, tf, and taric push for the win.
Udyr is not a "terrible" ganker. That is a ridiculous notion and gap closers aren't necessary to gank. You might as well say Nocturne can't gank before six. Secondly, the knockback hammer outranges a melee stun, so good luck with that.
You can jump to jungle or enemy minions. Why do you do this? How does Jax have more escapability when his jump works the same way without the slow? A slow is still a slow. You can jump in, knock away, and run off on certain champs. I am talking about top lane. Which is a long lane. Jumps and dashes while still good are less effective than movement speed. That's why Ghost is still valuable on many top lane champions. Riven and Kat are not difficult gank targets. Jax is average, just watch the creep wave and don't let him escape with his stun and ultimate.
Hard CC is hard CC. Knockbacks are suppresses and/or stuns depending on enemy positioning. It interrupts abilities.
How does he have no escape? I just went over this. He has multiple speed boosts and built in defensive stats.
What is your point? Graves was the best AD carry for a very long time and still is one of the best and most versatile. He had to be nerfed so much compared to his original incarnation.Don't forget that Graves was a ranged AD carry that got tanky stat boosts, had a slow, a gap closer that worked on offense or defense and could go through walls, and could completely prevent the enemy from seeing anything in the game.
Caitlyn and Miss Fortune are poke champions. You are going to give me an ulcer. Not every champions needs a finisher. In fact many top laners do not have one. Look at Singed, Jax, Renekton, Nasus, Olaf, Irelia, etc.
This will probably be the biggest deal ever for him. On paper, he seems like he has good safe play by poking and good dueling in general with good pursuit ... but he won't really burst finish anyone barring a Wall + Shot nuke. Granted, I say that as a primarily Riven player so I'm comparing him to a ranged execute. It'll be interesting to see how he adapts into the meta (if he does, anyway) once the initial shock wears off.
I'm kind of expecting him to just be a bulkier AD Carry option depending on the kind of damage he does fully geared. Top option may still be good just due to how good he'll be at controlling the lane and zoning. Jungle should be better at ganking than Shyvana-esque champs and with good clear speeds so I can't imagine it not being viable, just not an ideal ganking champ.
Haven't tried him yet, though! If nothing else, I think I'll have some fun with him at my Summoner Level :x
How significant is his transform movement boost anyway? The wall one looks like a big deal (and allows for punishing bad chases with the boosted shot) but the transform one didn't seem _that_ significant.
In that vein, he does have an advantage with his great pursuit / ranged option. It'll be interesting, to say the least.
a game in which our team leader bans only 2 champs and thinks he is on his third ban and picks jax, a champ he never played and asks who can switch with him so I say i'll change i guess, but i haven't played jax since his overhaul. At one point we are down by 20 kills and we make a comeback to win because their ahri is always farming or away. Our ashe gets a penta kill at baron and ashe, tf, and taric push for the win.
Such an awsome game, or team had a little rage, but we had some great team fights, i never saw a throw so bad as this one, even playing with gaf!
Yeah, that's not a huge amount but any speed advantage is enough to just out run; no collision detection just cements it. Of course, no dashes means he's pretty screwed vs snares/stuns/gap closes but ... that's the case for many champs anyway. On the flip side, his pursuit will be stupid good, especially with his Cannon W and a Phage proc.
Looking forward to trying him out later today.
Well, I didn't mean it was bad. Just that a sort of Boots boost isn't going to be "I outrun everything that tries to gank me ever" sort of thing. It's good and lets him get to safety when he gets approached but it's not a safety net for a hard gank. But, the same applies to practically every champ on most ganks so it's not really a negative or anything.
And it really does kind of make the Vayne and MF passives seem pretty bad in comparison. At least MF's reaches 70, I guess ... :| In that view, it's pretty ridiculous that his entire playstyle of weapon swapping basically outclasses some of the other movement passives in both an offensive/defensive capacity.
Vanillalite
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A lot of older champs have passives that have been used else where to a better degree in newer champs either via passive or an ability that ends up more useful. It's just the current state of things sadly.
thestopsign
Member
Yall should stop talking about stupid Jayce and start talking about how bitchingly awesome Newnu is. He now can dominate top lane and jungle. I just top-laned against a Yorick and was able to out sustain him with by maxing my q and just autoattacking continually.
Riot is pretty good about releasing new champs with bad passives when they want to. Like Viktor. And Sejuani. And Xerath.A lot of older champs have passives that have been used else where to a better degree in newer champs either via passive or an ability that ends up more useful. It's just the current state of things sadly.
Ahri has a long-range, decent duration taunt combined with triple non-targeted dash to escape. Do you honestly mean to suggest that non-dash/blink escapes are better than dash escapes, especially multiples ones?
If you mean non-ult escapes then ok.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I don't disagree, but that's sort of a difference stance. More than older passive ideas are reused in better ways in newer champs now which make the old passives seem not as good.
I'm not sure why you keep twisting my words to make it seem like I'm complaining about anything. I'm just saying that +Movement on his Transform isn't broken overpowered. It's just good.
Ahri has a good escape. It is on a long cooldown and if she blows it she isn't going to use it offensively. Jayce has no long CD timers prohibiting him from escaping.
Yes, they usually are. Especially top lane where the lane is too long to dash to safety in. On champions that blow up instantly a blink is good. On tankier champions and over any long distance a move speed buff wins. How do you think Singed works?
XeroSauce
Member
Udyr is a terrible ganker and you should not compare him to Nocturne who has a Q that increases him speed if he hits it on the enemy, a fear leash, and a spell shield to counter anti-ganks (Alistar, Taric).
The only worse ganker is Shyvana, and that's because at least if Udyr flashes in or gets the jump on the lane, he can stun and then proc slow with red, while Shyvana has to have perfect timing with her jump into the lane to get her red slow or use her dragon eventually.
Jayce is seeming ridiculous though. Facing him gives you the same kind of helplessness that you had when you originally faced against Darius before people figured him out; Jayce has so many moves and so many ways to play that it's hard to beat him, he's so safe.
The only worse ganker is Shyvana, and that's because at least if Udyr flashes in or gets the jump on the lane, he can stun and then proc slow with red, while Shyvana has to have perfect timing with her jump into the lane to get her red slow or use her dragon eventually.
Jayce is seeming ridiculous though. Facing him gives you the same kind of helplessness that you had when you originally faced against Darius before people figured him out; Jayce has so many moves and so many ways to play that it's hard to beat him, he's so safe.
Freeweeks with new characters are even worse.
Udyr has built in move speed and an instant CC. I don't really know what else I have to say. They are fairly comparable in terms of ganking before six. There are plenty of junglers with less gank potential, especially early game.
Why is Taric getting left out?
thestopsign
Member
Udyr just needs a good ganking angle. I've been jungling him a lot lately and the key is to get one or two ganks off before the wards are up in mid and top, go back to farming for a bit until you have enough for two gp/10 and oracles, then continue non-stop farming/ganking. Build him 0-21-9 and he is tanky enough not to lose oracles. I also tend to get Aegis before Wit's End as it makes him practically invincible in 1v1 and team fight situations as long as he doesn't get focused by 3+ people during the mid game. He is also the king of counter ganking, I often wait for the other jungler to come out in a lane and run in behind as they are focusing the laner. His bot lane ganks you pretty much have to do a lane gank if they have wards in river, so that is situational.
crackbabyjr
Member
He's too outrageous to even be considered on the same level as those two.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
Lol @ chat.just won 4v5 rank
wherever there is leona there should be corki
Yeah, I think it took 2-3 bot games for me to be quick enough to click and not have someone dodge.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Not impressed with the Jayce players I've seen in Dominion so far.
He's pretty meh at whatever he chooses to do.
Probably better in SR.
He's pretty meh at whatever he chooses to do.
Probably better in SR.
thestopsign
Member
Jayce top lane is OP, I've witnessed it first hand. You heard it here first.
I think a lot of people complaining about Jayce aren't the ones playing him. Now it may be possible for someone to consistently do well and win 4-6 ranked games in a row, but until then I think we should wait a week or two to jump to conclusions.
And then like Orianna, they will renerf her, and no one will ever play her again.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Ori is way too damn hard to play.
SafeinSound
Member
What is the cooldown between switching?
XeroSauce
Member
I'll play him even with nerfs because Full Metal Jayce is pretty cool.
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