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[Q8D3vil]

Are there any melee champs who actually fare well against ranged champs during lane? I wondered about it since I just had a game (me Vayne + Shen) against a Riven and Sejuani and they were just helpless. It didn't help that Shen was pretty good at his taunts so it was much easier to do Q->E combos to turn the lane into a buffet. I didn't even use a single potion, and I didn't need the lifesteal I usually build early on.

Neither side had a jungler. Mid tried to gank a few times but we always had wards at bot so we ate the ganks from mid.

i heard that leona jarvan is one of the best combo's to kill botlane but i have yet to try it.

 

[Complex Shadow]

What's your ELO? We should duo when I get back to LoL.

i dunno. i don't have a rank. maybe becuase i havent won a game yet =/ but i am down to do a duo que.

i heard that leona jarvan is one of the best combo's to kill botlane but i have yet to try it.

ashe and leona are pretty good. they have too much CC together.

 

[Ken]

^Okay so you're doing placement matches and you start out at 1200 ELO so I've been told. I'm down to about 1050 from 1322 so I'm down for anything at this point.

Are there any melee champs who actually fare well against ranged champs during lane? I wondered about it since I just had a game (me Vayne + Shen) against a Riven and Sejuani and they were just helpless. It didn't help that Shen was pretty good at his taunts so it was much easier to do Q->E combos to turn the lane into a buffet. I didn't even use a single potion, and I didn't need the lifesteal I usually build early on.

Neither side had a jungler. Mid tried to gank a few times but we always had wards at bot so we ate the ganks from mid.

Top lane Riven is pretty good against other top lane ranged champions thanks to her mobility, CC, and damage. She doesn't belong bot though.

You also can't forget that that lane was also a Shen vs Sejuani thing; maybe things would have gone differently if you swapped partners.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

Why would you not use smartcasing on a mage? Especially one who is spamming?

You'd be surprised how many people play mages without smartcasting. The only time I don't use smartcasting is when I'm trying to learn and memorize a champs range of their abilities at different levels.

 

[y2dvd]

Are there any melee champs who actually fare well against ranged champs during lane? I wondered about it since I just had a game (me Vayne + Shen) against a Riven and Sejuani and they were just helpless. It didn't help that Shen was pretty good at his taunts so it was much easier to do Q->E combos to turn the lane into a buffet. I didn't even use a single potion, and I didn't need the lifesteal I usually build early on.

Neither side had a jungler. Mid tried to gank a few times but we always had wards at bot so we ate the ganks from mid.

Patheon hits ranges pretty hard. The passive is also very annoying.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Are there any melee champs who actually fare well against ranged champs during lane? I wondered about it since I just had a game (me Vayne + Shen) against a Riven and Sejuani and they were just helpless. It didn't help that Shen was pretty good at his taunts so it was much easier to do Q->E combos to turn the lane into a buffet. I didn't even use a single potion, and I didn't need the lifesteal I usually build early on.

Neither side had a jungler. Mid tried to gank a few times but we always had wards at bot so we ate the ganks from mid.

Fiora/Jarvan/Renekton/Pantheon/Garen make for awesome kill lanes.

Bot lane is about synergies, and if they mess up their bot lane combo it's really hard for them to win a lane.

 

[Ken]

You'd be surprised how many people play mages without smartcasting. The only time I don't use smartcasting is when I'm trying to learn and memorize a champs range of their abilities at different levels.

Smart casting isn't exactly made known at all to players in game, IIRC. I played quite a bit of LoL not knowing what smart casting was and only found out through searching it online.

Corki+Leona is pretty brutal too because of how easily Corki can trigger Leona's passive.

 

[red13th]

After a few months of LoL inactivity I decided to try Proving Grounds, and after a couple hours downloading patches and 10 minutes of dodgers (accept your goddamn random shitty character ffs) I liked it a lot.
But I really hope they add matchmaking for that map soon since it gives no IP and QUITTERS.

 

[scy]

Top lane Riven is pretty good against other top lane ranged champions thanks to her mobility, CC, and damage. She doesn't belong bot though.

You also can't forget that that lane was also a Shen vs Sejuani thing; maybe things would have gone differently if you swapped partners.

Honestly, I'd have figured the Sejuani would have made the lane easy for them. Riven can E -> W in and Sejuani has a billion snares to keep them from escaping when pressured. It sounds like the lane snowballed them rather than ranged > melee in top lane.

 

[zkylon]

You'd be surprised how many people play mages without smartcasting. The only time I don't use smartcasting is when I'm trying to learn and memorize a champs range of their abilities at different levels.

I don't like to use smartcasting for skillshots, but I probably should train myself so, specially with stuff like Annie's W or Akali's combos. With Lux, I like to take my time to snipe, so I only smartcast when in need of a hasty snare.

 

[Ken]

^Smart casting is pretty essential for quick combos like getting Brand's stun off after setting someone ablaze; you don't want to be fiddling with an aiming thing while the opportunity window ticks away. With skill shots, it's less about having time to 'snipe' and more about your reactions, zoning, and taking advantage of where they can move because of the minion wave or geography. Smart casting greatly assists with how fast you can take advantage of these things. I hope that makes some sense but it probably doesn't since I'm tired. Basically, just smart cast because it's great.

Honestly, I'd have figured the Sejuani would have made the lane easy for them. Riven can E -> W in and Sejuani has a billion snares to keep them from escaping when pressured. It sounds like the lane snowballed them rather than ranged > melee in top lane.

It's Shen. Against Sejuani.

Also Vayne can just knock back either when they go in for damage and a Shen taunt can keep the other in for damage.

Now maybe if it was soda cop's Sejuani, things would be different...

 

[mercviper]

I don't like to use smartcasting for skillshots, but I probably should train myself so, specially with stuff like Annie's W or Akali's combos. With Lux, I like to take my time to snipe, so I only smartcast when in need of a hasty snare.

One nice thing about Annie's W is that it's the same range as her Q, so if you go in for a Q and see the cast animation, you can immediately smartcast a W in their direction and get that damage off as well.

 

[kayos90]

Akali's proc is now too strong. If you happen to miss the melee then you can easily use E to proc it. Especially if you don't know who to burst in a teamfight and your mark got lost in the clutter. She's too easy mode now...

 

[Ken]

Akali's proc is now too strong. If you happen to miss the melee then you can easily use E to proc it. Especially if you don't know who to burst in a teamfight and your mark got lost in the clutter. She's too easy mode now...

I haven't played Akali at all since the patch but I still don't think that alone makes her "too easy mode."

I don't know, maybe you're right. At max level, Q+E ends up being only -65 energy which would allow you to do Q+E safely twice in one fight if you want to keep the shroud available.

 

[zkylon]

^Smart casting is pretty essential for quick combos like getting Brand's stun off after setting someone ablaze; you don't want to be fiddling with an aiming thing while the opportunity window ticks away. With skill shots, it's less about having time to 'snipe' and more about your reactions, zoning, and taking advantage of where they can move because of the minion wave or geography. Smart casting greatly assists with how fast you can take advantage of these things. I hope that makes some sense but it probably doesn't since I'm tired. Basically, just smart cast because it's great.

Yeah, I get that, and I have to work on it, because I do feel like I'm missing that crucial split second in some combos. I usually play with my Q ready with Lux, so I almost always land the reaction -omg-imma-get-ganked snares, but I think it's at the combos where it'll make the most difference (it's also where I feel like my 200 ping is the most hurtful).

One nice thing about Annie's W is that it's the same range as her Q, so if you go in for a Q and see the cast animation, you can immediately smartcast a W in their direction and get that damage off as well.

Oh, never thought of that, that's pretty good.

Akali's proc is now too strong. If you happen to miss the melee then you can easily use E to proc it. Especially if you don't know who to burst in a teamfight and your mark got lost in the clutter. She's too easy mode now...

I don't think it changed all that much, really, but I appreciate the extra lenience towards shitty Akali players

 

[XeroSauce]

Blitzcrank is so fun omfg

Missing pulls and beeping all day

And if you are a funny robot the enemy team doesn't even hate you, they start laughing too, because Blitz is just running around going chug chug chug chug and punching things.

 

[Blizzard]

Blitzcrank is so fun omfg

Missing pulls and beeping all day

And if you are a funny robot the enemy team doesn't even hate you, they start laughing too, because Blitz is just running around going chug chug chug chug and punching things.

This is my favorite thing about Blitzcrank. Even if I'm terrible he's funny. And if you're not doing anything you can spam the laugh emote which is also funny.

And just in case you haven't seen the car skin, that's also hilarious. BEEP BEEP screeeech *pow*


Fired Up And Ready To Go

 

[scy]

It's Shen. Against Sejuani.

Also Vayne can just knock back either when they go in for damage and a Shen taunt can keep the other in for damage.

Now maybe if it was soda cop's Sejuani, things would be different...

Well, true. Knockback/Taunt to control the start of a fight but, even ground, I'd still say Riven/Sejuani has the better pursuit and straight up killing potential. Once things go good for the Vayne/Shen, they'll just snowball and control the lane easily. Just early pressure is pretty iffy, especially if Shen misses a Taunt.

But, generally, yeah ... it's Sejuani. I just know from my own Riven that I've won solo 2v1 top enough that adding someone that lets me get more kills by virtue of removing escape options should mean I win the lane harder. Then again, I've lost 1v2 in lane due to dumb partners so eh :/

 

[Boken]

Smartcast isn't essential. Yes, I use it, and yes it makes you a little faster, but at a cost to accuracy. You cant hold a spell ready with smart cast either (leaving the aiming cursor activated to wait for somebody to walk into range). Froggen doesn't use smart cast and he is easily one of the best mage players right now.

 

[Blizzard]

Smartcast isn't essential. Yes, I use it, and yes it makes you a little faster, but at a cost to accuracy. You cant hold a spell ready with smart cast either (leaving the aiming cursor activated to wait for somebody to walk into range). Froggen doesn't use smart cast and he is easily one of the best mage players right now.

Doesn't holding the button down with smartcast leave the aiming cursor active until you release it, which will then trigger the spell?

 

[Boken]

There's three aiming modes: normal (cast on mouse click), aimed smart cast (cast on key release), smart cast (cast on key press). Smart cast is the fastest of the three.

 

[XeroSauce]

Doesn't holding the button down with smartcast leave the aiming cursor active until you release it, which will then trigger the spell?

Yea but only if you click the "Enable Smartcast Range Indicator" in the Options menu. That way, if you hold the button down, you will see the range of it.

I find no reason to not smartcast targeted abilities like Annie's Q, Ryze;s entire kit, Cass's E etc. Increases your reaction-time-DPS by a huge margin.

 

[Blizzard]

There's three aiming modes: normal (cast on mouse click), aimed smart cast (cast on key release), smart cast (cast on key press). Smart cast is the fastest of the three.

Can you manually select aimed smart cast as an option, or does that automatically trigger if you turn on the smartcast range indicators?

What is the millisecond difference between tapping a key with aimed smart cast (so fast that you are unlikely to see any range indicator) and tapping a key with smart cast?

 

[Pancakes]

Blitzcrank is so fun omfg

Missing pulls and beeping all day

And if you are a funny robot the enemy team doesn't even hate you, they start laughing too, because Blitz is just running around going chug chug chug chug and punching things.

It's awesome right! No one ever rages at Blitz

 

[lazorexplosion]

I don't see the need to use smartcasting. I really don't see how it takes an appreciable amount of time to press q click rather than just q.

 

[Ark]

I don't see the need to use smartcasting. I really don't see how it takes an appreciable amount of time to press q click rather than just q.

I'm so used to smartcasting that I can't ever go back to not using it.

 

[Noshino]

It's awesome right! No one ever rages at Blitz

I DO

 

[garath]

I don't see the need to use smartcasting. I really don't see how it takes an appreciable amount of time to press q click rather than just q.

Play LeBlanc and see the difference. Any combo based burst char will really appreciate the smartcasting.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

I don't see the need to use smartcasting. I really don't see how it takes an appreciable amount of time to press q click rather than just q.

Play Ryze

 

[scy]

I feel like I need to make the swap to Smartcasting soon before it becomes too hard to adapt...

 

[zkylon]

I feel like I need to make the swap to Smartcasting soon before it becomes too hard to adapt...

Just tear off your left mouse button

 

[LCGeek]

Play Ryze

Vayne's Condemn or ashe volley is a billion times better than having to click twice to shoot.

Can't believe why people can't see the value of smartcast on certain spells as it gets rid of execution time allowing your move to come out much faster. Some character are day and night with it. I wouldn't be using my current main or even my alternates if they didn't have this.

Not disagreeing adding to your point.

 

[EXGN]

I don't see the need to use smartcasting. I really don't see how it takes an appreciable amount of time to press q click rather than just q.

Champions that are combo heavy will see a notable improvement in terms of reaction time (Veigar, LeBlac, Ryze, etc.)

Are there any melee champs who actually fare well against ranged champs during lane? I wondered about it since I just had a game (me Vayne + Shen) against a Riven and Sejuani and they were just helpless. It didn't help that Shen was pretty good at his taunts so it was much easier to do Q->E combos to turn the lane into a buffet. I didn't even use a single potion, and I didn't need the lifesteal I usually build early on.

I would imagine any champion with a solid blink gap closer would do the trick (Renekton, Irelia, Wukong, etc.).

 

[garath]

I feel like I need to make the swap to Smartcasting soon before it becomes too hard to adapt...

I found it really easy to adapt. It's so easy in fact, that's probably a big reason I have trouble readjusting to button->click in DotA2.

 

[kayos90]

Smart casting is inconvenient for certain champions and for certain moves. For instance, Akali's W and Veigar's stun.

 

[Complex Shadow]

I DO

Then you need to take it easy. Unless he's on the enemy team. Then your fucked if he's good or farmed.

 

[dimb]

You shouldn't really be missing many grabs on Blitzcrank. If you are you're trying to grab too much and the enemy can take advantage of the fact that it's down.

 

[garath]

Smart casting is inconvenient for certain champions and for certain moves. For instance, Akali's W and Veigar's stun.

I'm with you on Veigar's stun, however I use Akali's shroud with smartcasting np. The mouse is the center of the circle. Knowing that you should be just fine. Veigar's stun requires edges so I can see that being a challenge.

 

[Noshino]

Been having a blast playing Leona lately, I like the prude lady

Then you need to take it easy. Unless he's on the enemy team. Then your fucked if he's good or farmed.

lol that's what I meant, I rage whenever the other team picks him.

I don't like to play him, he isn't "supporty" enough for me

 

[Pancakes]

You shouldn't really be missing many grabs on Blitzcrank. If you are you're trying to grab too much and the enemy can take advantage of the fact that it's down.

On the other side of that coin, it's not the end of the world if you missed a grab. You shouldn't be scared or hesitate with spells like Biltz's grab or Ashe's arrow.

 

[dimb]

On the other side of that coin, it's not the end of the world if you missed a grab. You shouldn't be scared or hesitate with spells like Biltz's grab or Ashe's arrow.

No, you should definitely feel bad if you miss arrows.

 

[Achtius]

No, you should definitely feel bad if you miss arrows.

Only if you shoot it pointblank. Shooting across the map is understandable

 

[scy]

Only if you shoot it pointblank. Shooting across the map is understandable

Unless you go out of your way to always shoot them cross map at bad spots. Then you should just be sad.

 

[XeroSauce]

No, you should definitely feel bad if you miss arrows.

The amount of arrows I've misjudged as Ashe is terrible.

Playing Blitz and practicing grabs is a good way to learn enemy movement prediction.

 

[Achtius]

Unless you go out of your way to always shoot them cross map at bad spots. Then you should just be sad.

when people are engaging at mid/top, shooting across the map from bot is always fun

 

[garath]

when people are engaging at mid/top, shooting across the map from bot is always fun

Especially when an enemy has just won a fight and is standing next to his tower recalling. Getting the kill with the arrow is glorious.

 

[scy]

when people are engaging at mid/top, shooting across the map from bot is always fun

Especially when an enemy has just won a fight and is standing next to his tower recalling. Getting the kill with the arrow is glorious.

But shooting them cross map to someone solo farming top when he has one minion left is a waste since it'll never hit (unless that guy is stupid, I guess). And he has full life so it wouldn't matter anyway. Especially pointless when there's a fight about to happen in mid and you'll need it there.

I've learned to stop hoping for Ashe arrows to ever hit. The cool factor of a tricky cross map shot does not outweigh the "I used this and actually hit something useful" factor. If you can get a cross-map kill snipe, I'm all for it and I've done it too so I'm not saying it's wrong and never do it. Just that most random Ashes I've seen just try for them because and fail miserably each and every single time. Or they land one and it doesn't matter because it doesn't kill them nor will anyone get there in time to utilize it.

 

[garath]

But shooting them cross map to someone solo farming top when he has one minion left is a waste since it'll never hit (unless that guy is stupid, I guess). And he has full life so it wouldn't matter anyway. Especially pointless when there's a fight about to happen in mid and you'll need it there.

I've learned to stop hoping for Ashe arrows to ever hit. The cool factor of a tricky cross map shot does not outweigh the "I used this and actually hit something useful" factor. If you can get a cross-map kill snipe, I'm all for it and I've done it too so I'm not saying it's wrong and never do it. Just that most random Ashes I've seen just try for them because and fail miserably each and every single time. Or they land one and it doesn't matter because it doesn't kill them nor will anyone get there in time to utilize it.

Cross map Ashe arrows and Ezreal ults are worth it in a few conditions:

- near death guy trying to recall away. A hit is a kill
- Teamfight is happening that you have no chance of getting to

Especially during the laning phase, that ~90 second second cooldown isn't that bad. Recall+buy+walk back is at least half that.

 

[zkylon]

I nailed my first Baron steal ever with Lux and I did it with my E

 

[scy]

Cross map Ashe arrows and Ezreal ults are worth it in a few conditions:

- near death guy trying to recall away. A hit is a kill
- Teamfight is happening that you have no chance of getting to

Especially during the laning phase, that ~90 second second cooldown isn't that bad. Recall+buy+walk back is at least half that.

Yup. I'm talking about ones that are:

- full health guy farming in lane with no one nearby to take advantage of a hit
- not even close to hitting anyone at all

I've seen people try to hinder Baron attempts and missed Baron's area entirely. I get the ones you mention since ... that is what you use them for. That's kind of why globals are nice. I just mean the ones that clearly screwed up and chose to ult someone that changes absolutely nothing if it hits or the ones that miss so badly that I wonder if they actually aimed it instead of just hitting R and clicking somewhere. I get those two Ashe players more often than not and it saddens me