XeroSauce
Member
Riot sometimes bends under community pressure, and I'm just imagining people complaining once Dota comes out and the comparisons/arguments get even worse. Hell, even the third-person Smite game is looking good in beta.
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Riot sometimes bends under community pressure, and I'm just imagining people complaining once Dota comes out and the comparisons/arguments get even worse. Hell, even the third-person Smite game is looking good in beta.
The thing is, they're at a point where they have such a huge following they can basically do whatever they want. I'm sure they'll keep pushing more and more until the community fights back but as it stands the 6300 complaint-crowd isn't large enough that Riot isn't willing to do anything about it. Not really Riot but actually the parent company that owns them.
XeroSauce
Member
Yea, I suppose you're right; wishful thinking, I guess.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Top: Tanky, or self sustaining characters. Basically any character that can survive alone without much intervention for anyone else. This lane usually has the most freedom in who you can pick.
Mid: AP carry characters. AP carry characters are any characters that do mostly magical damage.
Bot: AD Ranged Carry and 0 CS support. Any attack damage focused ranged character. 0 CS supports are characters where they can still contribute to the team even if they don't get any money from creeps/kills. Usually the only money they get is from towers, dragons, assists, gp5 items (gold per 5 )
Jungle: Anyone with fast clear times, and/or good ganking capability.
Yep tanky. Looks like she'll be able to jungle with ganks, and no CD on her ult looks pretty insane. Doubt she'll pull big damage. Looks fun though, probably pick her up for another jungle option. Hit everyone with moonlight, they proceed to teleport to each one.
Not dumb at all! Actually a lot of people are used to just copying other people on lane placement (not that there is anything wrong with that, since you end up placing people in the right places regardless), without really thinking about why. The current meta puts the AP carry at mid, an AD carry and support at bot, a jungler (usually one with a fast clear, or good cc, something that doesn't need too many items, etc.), and something that can survive alright top and makes sense in your team comp (of course if you are playing to win, you will always attempt to synergize your picks).
This happens for many different reasons, but a lot of it begins to make sense when you think about the nature of the champ and their position in regards to map objectives (dragon, buffs, etc.), who needs gold (in an AD and support lane, it is currently very popular to allow the AD to get all the last hits, and to make the support buy items like philo and heart of gold, same for several junglers), just you know general optimization of resources and usage of the champ's skillset. Keep in mind that this is part of a long-going "meta" and is subject to change. In fact, many teams subvert these lane assignments; knowing that another team has picked a "weaker" laning phase top, vlad for example, you may decide to send your AD and support up there. In the past there have been roaming supports, AD mids, etc. Basically, though, people just follow what the pro players are doing at the moment, so if you check that out and think about the decisions they make it'll become clearer to you. Essentially this is what they have decided is the most efficient way to play.
ferrio got dat tl;dr
I mean, it's pretty useful to know how the enemy team comp will adhere to the meta and how you can counter their adherence. For example, when talon was less weak he was played in mid a lot, since his skillset countered popular mids. People started playing manaless APs at top because they had good survivability and could participate in a double WOTA strategy. Counter-jungling became very popular after M5 cleaned house with the strategy, disturbing the timing of teams that didn't ward their jungle or picked junglers that couldn't fight well by themselves in the jungle. Putting a manaless AP in mid can allow you to have a blue reliant jungler. !!! just gotta think about how the champ you pick will do their role efficiently
Wolf Akela
Member
Another kind of "0 CD" on an ult. >_>
Jazzy Network
Member
I hope she's a legit jungler and not like Darius top/maybeicanjunglejustwellenoughtojungle kind of jungler.
YLA Rex, I'm not sure what your GAF name is, but I'm sorry -- I'm not sure what you meant about nagging -- my questions about minions? You asked me why I did something about minions (pushing at tower?) and I asked you what you meant but you didn't respond. I was trying to learn how the minions work, and if you have advice I'll be happy to take it. If I type too much just ask me to stop -- apparently you were pissed at me a week ago and you didn't even say anything about it? It's easy to tell me, just say something. I think I stopped typing immediately when you asked because you were keeping jungle timers.
For anyone else, do you have minion advice for top lane? I need to understand the mechanic of how minions push and focus.
Situation 1: Enemy champion last hits minions under their turret, and I am completely out out of XP range and not attacking at all (Jax was 2-0 from other players before the lane even started, and I could not get within jump + stun range because of the risk of Alistar ganks). This exact location holds for 5-10 minutes. Is that the time limit for how long a lane can be frozen?
Situation 2: Once the lane finally pushed to my turret many minutes later, I started trying to attack/last hit the minions under my turret. This was when Rex asked me why I was pushing or something to that effect, but he didn't reply to my question in response so I'm not sure what I should do there. Is the idea to use the fewest attacks possible to last hit, only hitting the minion the turret is currently focusing (1 + turret + 1 for melee, turret + 1 for ranged minions)?
Advice for playing against (or as) Jax is also appreciated. I am really bad against him and my friend had trouble in a solo lane yesterday versus him.
For anyone else, do you have minion advice for top lane? I need to understand the mechanic of how minions push and focus.
Situation 1: Enemy champion last hits minions under their turret, and I am completely out out of XP range and not attacking at all (Jax was 2-0 from other players before the lane even started, and I could not get within jump + stun range because of the risk of Alistar ganks). This exact location holds for 5-10 minutes. Is that the time limit for how long a lane can be frozen?
Situation 2: Once the lane finally pushed to my turret many minutes later, I started trying to attack/last hit the minions under my turret. This was when Rex asked me why I was pushing or something to that effect, but he didn't reply to my question in response so I'm not sure what I should do there. Is the idea to use the fewest attacks possible to last hit, only hitting the minion the turret is currently focusing (1 + turret + 1 for melee, turret + 1 for ranged minions)?
Advice for playing against (or as) Jax is also appreciated. I am really bad against him and my friend had trouble in a solo lane yesterday versus him.
Well, why are they even under their turret to begin with? Why did you push that far? If I push up to their turret, I back out. It's on them to properly last hit under turret to get their CS while I buy. If I'm pushed up and I can't buy anything then go show up in mid to scare them out of lane or something to let the wave push back out. Don't just sit outside their turret watching them with a melee champ.
When you're under turret, you just melee to get them outside of turret range and freeze them there. Right outside the turret but close enough that if someone engages you then they basically have to dive you. When last hitting, you just attack for the kill (or the extra melee swing for melee minions if needed due to low AD).
Looks like a perfect fun normals jungler. Really excited to try that ult out!
I don't remember pushing that far, I thought my minions did. I walked back to lane after helping with enemy blue golem, taking damage, and recalling, and they were pushed to turret either then or shortly thereafter. I may be totally wrong and have pushed up there, but I kind of doubt it since I was trying to ward due to jungle Alistar.
Thanks for the tips. I played a Riven top game after that, versus Renekton, and did a lot better. I didn't try to help the rest of the team and just went straight top that time though. I think the lane ended up in a similar spot but after Renekton and I hit each other a few times the lane would move around so it wasn't as static. I ended up doing well enough to keep wards and win the lane, and they surrendered.
One thing I should start doing is trying to memorize when dragon/buffs will respawn, even when I'm not jungling.
Jazzy Network
Member
How is Hecarim a disaster?
Sometimes your minions decide to be a boss and push it. It happens. Those aren't _that_ common, however. I do try to push up when I'm going to do things like that, however. If I'm leaving lane for any decent amount of time (harassing mid, helping counterjungle, backing, etc.), I push the wave to tower to try and cost them farm before doing that. if they were pushed up while you were helping with blue and backing, that's kind of an ideal situation honestly. It means the tower might be stealing the kills and they're losing gold. That's far more important than them getting "free" EXP.
Thanks for the tips. I played a Riven top game after that, versus Renekton, and did a lot better. I didn't try to help the rest of the team and just went straight top that time though. I think the lane ended up in a similar spot but after Renekton and I hit each other a few times the lane would move around so it wasn't as static. I ended up doing well enough to keep wards and win the lane, and they surrendered.
The trades are always strange. For Renekton, I try to play relatively passively (QE start) and outscale him. Just try to keep up with farm and don't let trades happen to often (and, if they do happen, try to minimize how far into his favor they go). It's a fun lane, though, since it's about outplaying the Renekton early to try and win after some items.
Buffs are a bit harder to track since you're not watching them as often but I just announce every Dragon/Baron respawn since you get the global message alert now. That and a timestamp makes it easy to just add six (Dragon) or seven (Baron) minutes to figure out when they repop.
Oxigen_Waste
Banned
My new love is now Pantheon. Am I wrong about this one as well? =P
XeroSauce
Member
Pantheon so strong early.
People never understand that he falls off really hard late game, and he always goes 9-0 in my games
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Back to back wins with my brodie after last night's cluster = feels good man.
We hadn't played in like 3 weeks until yesterday. That didn't go so well even if it wasn't our lane that had issues. Tonight we did much better. We rolled both lane in game 1, and we had much better map control so we eventually won game 2.
Almost at 6300 IP now. To save for the new chick or just buy other stuff.
We hadn't played in like 3 weeks until yesterday. That didn't go so well even if it wasn't our lane that had issues. Tonight we did much better. We rolled both lane in game 1, and we had much better map control so we eventually won game 2.
Almost at 6300 IP now. To save for the new chick or just buy other stuff.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
So NhatNgyuen posted a new Sona guide and his new masteries are really confusing me.
http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=30972
His argument:
His runes are pretty interesting too since he's dumped all the MR in favor of mana glyphs so that he can avoid buying a chalice.
TL;DR he's trading utility in order to have a stronger, more aggressive lane. I'll try these out for a couple matches and see how things work out.
http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=30972
His argument:
His runes are pretty interesting too since he's dumped all the MR in favor of mana glyphs so that he can avoid buying a chalice.
TL;DR he's trading utility in order to have a stronger, more aggressive lane. I'll try these out for a couple matches and see how things work out.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
He's not. Hecarim is an amazing ganker in that he can come at you so fast even if you have wards down it won't matter. He definitely requires a specific gameplan and mindset to be useful but I've had the guy wreck my team a few times now.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
lazorexplosion
Member
That's an intelligent question
Mid has close together towers (safer for squishy champions), is close to blue buff (good for heavy mana users) and is in the middle of the map (can roam to either lane if they can push their lane up with AoE damage). Bot is close to dragon so for dragon control its best to have 2 people in the lane, which is also gives more protection to a squishy but reduces experience gain so it's better for champions that don't need levels to scale well ie. squishy ranged attack damage champions plus any champion that synergises well with a squishy AD champ with buffs, heals etc. That leaves top as a solo lane and as a long lane which makes it easiest to gank so it tends to favor beefier champs who can survive a gank better. Melee champs need to be beefy so top is mostly for melee tanky/bruiser types, but also squishier types can do well there if they have good escapes (eg. kennen and vlad are both good top laners)
XeroSauce
Member
So NhatNgyuen posted a new Sona guide and his new masteries are really confusing me.
http://solomid.net/guides.php?g=30972
His argument:
His runes are pretty interesting too since he's dumped all the MR in favor of mana glyphs so that he can avoid buying a chalice.
TL;DR he's trading utility in order to have a stronger, more aggressive lane. I'll try these out for a couple matches and see how things work out.
I don't get why you would put points in Initiator or Indomitable when you could just get 3 Points in Swiftness, get 2 points in Wealth, and start with 4 Wards and a Pot.
Swiftness gets your 2% Movement versus 3% Movement that is lost the instant you get under 70%.
Losing Indomitable means you lose 2 true damage in each auto attack, which is only useful against Teemo, Miss Fortune, or Twitch. 2 HP is nothing. You stay alive for 1 more sec and you'll make that bad.
It was kind of funny since it was almost a mirror lane for a while, though I think I got ahead a doran's blade more than renekton. We both got armor shoes etc.
I'm convinced I've seen a couple of good jungle Hecarim players that both ganked and did decent damage. I'm guessing it's rare though.
I'm so jealous.
GAF inhouse:
Thanks for all the nunu tips. I don't play support much but it was kind of fun buffing kogmaw and trying to ward. Vayne always saved E to cancel the ult so it was difficult to use it to much effect though.
I was wondering about the gold difference but then I realized...I think double smite + nunu actually helped with dragon and baron.
Lol, nunu + kog duo solo baron. Won that game sons.
who were you in that game? i don't think i know you.
who were you in that game? i don't think i know you.
he's lee sin
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
I don't get it either. I understand his reasoning about being more aggressive in lane and thus needing defensive masteries, but I don't know if losing extra XP, 6% CDR, and the %mana health regen is worth it.
It let us go to Baron right after that Dragon once, but I was way weaker in lane and team fights without Ignite. I just wanted to jungle Rumble, because going top with him during an in house is kind of just being a jerk.
The d/c hurt you a lot. Just came at the worst time.
Also: Nhat is pretty much understood to be a pretty bad support in solo queue who will often lose people games because he doesn't try. Just saying. I would agree that you need to have Sona be as tanky as possible to trade early and take advantage of her kit. There are a lot of major caveats hidden in the guide so I would recommend people at least read all of it if they're going to take his advice. Like at the very end he tells you to start boots vs. all the popular aggressive supports right now.
Don't worry about being a jerk, Nutty Hater was playing Vayne.
Don't worry about being a jerk, Nutty Hater was playing Vayne.
Kiunch with ahri. You guys could've done draft but went with blind.
It took like four tries to get in game. I just wanted to go.
From very brief discussion and impressions, it seems like Zyra's early game damage strengths are offset by her late game weakness and her lack of escapes. Lux and Morgana are similar in that if a gank comes in they have to snare to escape, but both of those champions have shields, so Zyra is even more vulnerable. I guess the ult might help you escape ganks if placed in the right spot.
Ew.
SouthernDragon
Member
I was listening to Nyx Assassin's voice.
Champions in DotA2 call out top, bot, and mid mias now! With their voices!
Champions in DotA2 call out top, bot, and mid mias now! With their voices!
Inskipp
Member
I'd be fine with Riot completely copying off Smite's voice- commands. It would certainly improve communication in pubs.
Moral Panic
Member
Oddone jungle Yi: http://www.twitch.tv/tsm_theoddone/b/325181257
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