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kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
I see we have new people vying for title of Angriest. We're going to scare Opiate away. D:

I'm angry that he fails to recognize it's his fault. Yeah, I died twice against a Riven. She beats me. I lost to her. I understand that. However, he goes proceeds to not gank and roam around, even if he's behind, and let their jungle camp bot not allowing me to do anything. That is HIS fault. Not mine. A jungle should be doing something about that shit. If I lost to Riven solely 1v1, I wouldn't care cuz it's actually MY FAULT. This was on him.

I'm posting it because that shit needs to stop in the lobby.

If we want a good thriving gafLoL community (all 30afk of us) we can't flame each other in the lobby when we have a bad game.

I'm not flaming him. I'm telling him that he needs to recognize when he fucked up. And he did. Then he proceeds to ignore me because I told him the truth and he couldn't take it? Lol. kk. Awesome.
 

Ken

Member
I sure wish some authority figure over beverages played with me and Schmatt again like the old days.

Also SR is the only real game mode of LoL.


I'm angry that he fails to recognize it's his fault. Yeah, I died twice against a Riven. She beats me. I lost to her. I understand that. However, he goes proceeds to not gank and roam around, even if he's behind, and let their jungle camp bot not allowing me to do anything. That is HIS fault. Not mine. A jungle should be doing something about that shit. If I lost to Riven solely 1v1, I wouldn't care cuz it's actually MY FAULT. This was on him.

It might be his fault but the way you communicate this is poorly and in anger, whether jokingly or not. Like that game with support Blitzcrank. Just because he missed a grab and ruined the jungle invade doesn't mean you can go "BLITZ WFT FAIL INVADE *sigh* wtf man omg* all in the space of 12 seconds. Show a little respect to other people, GAF or not.
 

Ferrio

Banned
I'm angry that he fails to recognize it's his fault. Yeah, I died twice against a Riven. She beats me. I lost to her. I understand that. However, he goes proceeds to not gank and roam around, even if he's behind, and let their jungle camp bot not allowing me to do anything. That is HIS fault. Not mine. A jungle should be doing something about that shit. If I lost to Riven solely 1v1, I wouldn't care cuz it's actually MY FAULT. This was on him.



I'm not flaming him. I'm telling him that he needs to recognize when he fucked up. And he did. Then he proceeds to ignore me because I told him the truth and he couldn't take it? Lol. kk. Awesome.

Who was he, who were you? Was he ganking any other lanes, counter jungling? His job isn't to gank your lane, certainly that's one of his potential jobs. If you lost your lane you lost your lane, it shouldn't land on his head no matter what. Now he can be at fault for not helping any other lane, or impeding their jungler... but he shouldn't be to blame for your lane.
 
If you don't agree with that, you're an idiot. I don't care that I went 0-4-0 but if you think that you should let Skarner camp top lane for 2 minutes while you do nothing. And proceed to let him gank me freely and deny me farm and exp, that's the jungle's fault. Beyond 2 deaths, it's you own fault. Not mine.

kayos, the line that made me post that was the "are you a fucking scrub?"

every line before that I was nodding "yep, yep, mmmhmmm these guys had a bad game it sounds like"

but don't say, "are you a fucking scrub"

that's a good way to get infinite declines from now on in the lobby
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Who was he, who were you? Was he ganking any other lanes, counter jungling? His job isn't to gank your lane, certainly that's one of his potential jobs. If you lost your lane you lost your lane, it shouldn't land on his head no matter what. Now he can be at fault for not helping any other lane, or impeding their jungler... but he shouldn't be to blame for your lane.

That's the point. If I lost my lane because it was just against Riven I'm perfectly fine with that. I fucked up. The problem is that Skarner repeatedly came top and camped and our jungle did nothing to do about it at all and only came when there was no gank potential.

kayos, the line that made me post that was the "are you a fucking scrub?"

every line before that I was nodding "yep, yep, mmmhmmm these guys had a bad game it sounds like"

but don't say, "are you a fucking scrub"

that's a good way to get infinite declines from now on in the lobby

Oh. That's what you meant. Then yeah, apologies.
 

Ferrio

Banned
That's the point. If I lost my lane because it was just against Riven I'm perfectly fine with that. I fucked up. The problem is that Skarner repeatedly came top and camped and our jungle did nothing to do about it at all.

That's still not his fault. Was he taking advantage of it in other lanes? Counter jungling? Securing dragon?

Also why is mobility bad on naut? Mobility runes are the best runes for most junglers and especially for naut who's one of the slowest in game.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
That's still not his fault. Was he taking advantage of it in other lanes? Counter jungling? Securing dragon?

Also why is mobility bad on naut? Mobility runes are the best runes for most junglers and especially for naut who's one of the slowest in game.

Boots of mobility? Over Tabi or merc treads on Naut? I disagree. And he had one successful gank bot and failed ganks elsewhere. There were tons of opportunities when Riven pushed lane and could've ganked but Naut proceeded to just go mid.
 

Ken

Member
Boots of mobility? Over Tabi or merc treads on Naut? I disagree. And he had one successful gank bot and failed ganks elsewhere. There were tons of opportunities when Riven pushed lane and could've ganked but Naut proceeded to just go mid.

Sometimes people have bad games.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Boots of mobility? Over Tabi or merc treads on Naut? I disagree. And he had one successful gank bot and failed ganks elsewhere. There were tons of opportunities when Riven pushed lane and could've ganked but Naut proceeded to just go mid.

Oh thought you were talking about runes. But ya I could see mobility on naut... like i said.. he's SLOW.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
I'm not saying losing lane wasn't my fault. It was definitely partially my fault for letting it start to snowball. My first death was a 1v2 where Skarner - I kid you not - camped top lane for 2 minutes - which I found to be somewhat odd since it rarely occurs. The second death was a 1v1 and Skarner came again for the remaining two deaths again. He camped top.

Sometimes people have bad games.

I checked his match history. Builds it basically every single time on Naut.
 

Opiate

Member
I see we have new people vying for title of Angriest. We're going to scare Opiate away. D:

Quite to the contrary, the opposite is likely to happen. Now that this is not "just another thread" to moderators -- and is instead a thread that a moderator is actively watching with special interest -- I plan on cleaning up the joint.

This does not mean I plan on banning everyone. Instead, I'll offer this useful advice: whenever you're going to post something hostile or mean spirited, I want you to take a quick moment to pretend that the game you're arguing about is Ping Pong instead of League of Legends (or if you also really like Ping Pong, swap in Racquetball, or some other game you don't care about). Imagine getting very angry at someone about their back hand, and saying that you cannot believe how big an idiot they are for not properly spinning the ball and jesus christ who gave birth to a retard like you that can't properly serve.

Does that sound very silly to you? Because it does to me -- right out of a hackneyed satirical movie, even. If it sounds silly or absurd to you when you replace "League of Legends" with "Ping Pong," then don't post it. This is a simple rule which will keep you off my naughty list. Thanks!
 

Ferrio

Banned
I will say this, it's *never* the jungler's fault if you lose your lane. EVER. The jungler will never make you lose a lane, he can make you win it.. but he can never make you lose it.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Quite to the contrary, the opposite is likely to happen: now that this is not "just another thread" to moderators -- and is instead a thread that a moderator is actively watching with special interest -- I plan on cleaning up the joint.

This does not mean I plan on banning everyone. Instead, I'll offer this useful advice: whenever you're going to post something hostile, I want you to pretend like the game you're arguing about is Ping Pong (or if you also really like Ping Pong, swap in Racquetball, or some other game you don't care about). Imagine getting very angry at someone about their back hand, and saying that you cannot believe how big an idiot they are for not properly spinning the ball and jesus christ who gave birth to a retard like you that can't properly serve.

Does that sound very silly to you? Because it does to me -- right out of a hackneyed satirical movie, even. If it sounds silly or absurd to you when you replace "League of Legends" with "Ping Pong," then don't post it. This is a simple rule which will keep you off my naughty list. Thanks!

My problem isn't particularly that they did poorly. Majority of my anger comes from the fact that people refuse to admit that they did bad and not recognize their mistakes when pointed out. Regardless, I will behave even though I did not post the image.

I will say this, it's *never* the jungler's fault if you lose your lane. EVER. The jungler will never make you lose a lane, he can make you win it.. but he can never make you lose it.

It IS the jungler's fault if the other jungler had a hand in it and yours failed to respond properly afterwards.
 

Wrekt

Member
Battlecast Cho!

chogathNews.png


Battlecast Urgot!

urgot1.jpg


Battlecast... Xerath

skin_760px_6123_1.jpg


One of these things is not like the other.
 

Ferrio

Banned
It IS the jungler's fault if the other jungler had a hand in it and yours failed to respond properly afterwards.

No it's not. The juggler's isn't there to baby sit you, that's on your head. The jungler's job is to gank, counter jungle, secure buffs. If you're being ganked, or losing your lane there's usually something you could of done to avoid it.

Now the jungler can fail to take advantage of certain opportunies, but that's not why you lost your lane.
 

mercviper

Member
Decisions I have problems making in LoL:

When to leave a teammate behind to die during a retreat.

What lane to gank as jungle when all lanes are losing.
and get yelled at by the other one because you didn't gank theirs enough or when you are on that side of the jungle the lane is pushed and you can't gank

When to roam as mid.

Saving flash when you're going to die anyway.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
No it's not. The juggler's isn't there to baby sit you, that's on your head. The jungler's job is to gank, counter jungle, secure buffs. If you're being ganked, or losing your lane there's usually something you could of done to avoid it.

Now the jungler can fail to take advantage of certain opportunies, but that's not why you lost your lane.

I do not expect jungle to babysit. I expect the jungle to gank top if their jungle caused something to go horribly awry. Sure, it's also up to the top lane to hold it together on their own but to say that the jungler ix completely irrelevant to the problem, I disagree.

Also, I'm not saying I lost because of a failed gank. That's hardly the point.
 
I will say this, it's *never* the jungler's fault if you lose your lane. EVER. The jungler will never make you lose a lane, he can make you win it.. but he can never make you lose it.

I agree with that sentiment generally speaking, though I feel jungle can contribute to the failing of top lane when he/she is being camped top and there is no relief for them from the jungle.
 

EXGN

Member
It IS the jungler's fault if the other jungler had a hand in it and yours failed to respond properly afterwards.

I don't know anything about the matchup, but there is a point where there is nothing your friendly jungler can do. If you go 0/2 or 0/3 and the enemy top gets those kills, he'll likely be able to kill you AND the jungler if he tries to gank. Sometimes its best to let a lane go in hopes of helping others to gain an advantage.
 
I will say this, it's *never* the jungler's fault if you lose your lane. EVER. The jungler will never make you lose a lane, he can make you win it.. but he can never make you lose it.

Eh? You know I jungle all the time and that's BS. I'll never admit it but I have failed a lane causing them to lose. The only time I will agree with you is when all 3 lanes lose. Then you're not at fault.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Decisions I have problems making in LoL:

When to leave a teammate behind to die during a retreat.

What lane to gank as jungle when all lanes are losing.
and get yelled at by the other one because you didn't gank theirs enough or when you are on that side of the jungle the lane is pushed and you can't gank

When to roam as mid.

Saving flash when you're going to die anyway.

You leave them to die when you feel that you can't contribute anything to both of your escape or the VIP's escape.

Ganking for jungle when all lanes are losing? uh.... I'm sure OddOne mentioned this but I forget....

Roaming mid is when your lane is pushed and you basically have nothing else to do.

Eh? You know I jungle all the time and that's BS. I'll never admit it but I have failed a lane causing them to lose. The only time I will agree with you is when all 3 lanes lose. Then you're not at fault.

Yeah, lol. That's a toughy because there's little the jungle CAN do. lol. OddOne gets mad all the time when this happens.

Both of the Xerath skins are really lazy and rotten.

Both? Wait... I only see one.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Eh? You know I jungle all the time and that's BS. I'll never admit it but I have failed a lane causing them to lose. The only time I will agree with you is when all 3 lanes lose. Then you're not at fault.

No, it's never your fault. Like I said a jungler can't make someone lose a lane, they can only make them win.

You didn't cause them to lose, you may of not helped to shift them to winning (and that sometimes isn't the highest priority or even possible) but them initially losing and continue to lose isn't your fault.
 
see guys we can argue all day about jungle things

but in the end we can never come to a definitive answer because jungle is so "what if"

hey jungle you should have ganked mid

hey jungle we would be better off if you had just counter jungled instead of trying (and failed) the gank top

hey jungle why didn't you come bot to gank, top was dead anyway don't even try to help that

hey jungle
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
No, it's never your fault. Like I said a jungler can't make someone lose a lane, they can only make them win.

You didn't cause them to lose, you may of not helped to shift them to winning (and that sometimes isn't the highest priority) but them initially losing and continue to lose isn't your fault.

Man, I should jungle all the time because if a game goes bad during laning phase then Jungle will never ever be at fault. Why wouldn't someone play a role where they will never be blamed.

Uh, sorry but I completely disagree.

Also, a jungler may not actively fail and make someone lose the lane but essentially not doing anything is almost the same thing as failing in this case.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Man, I should jungle all the time because if a game goes bad during laning phase then Jungle will never ever be at fault. Why wouldn't someone play a role where they will never be blamed.

Uh, sorry but I completely disagree.

They're can be at fault for lots of things. Not ganking when appropriate, not counter jungling when appropriate, not securing dragon or baron. Not warding. etc.

But they never cause a lane to lose, short of running into it and feeding the enemy.
 

Opiate

Member
see guys we can argue all day about jungle things

but in the end we can never come to a definitive answer because jungle is so "what if"

hey jungle you should have ganked mid

hey jungle we would be better off if you had just counter jungled instead of trying (and failed) the gank top

hey jungle why didn't you come bot to gank, top was dead anyway don't even try to help that

hey jungle

Yes, jungling is the ultimate test of opportunity cost. Even a successful gank may not have been the best use of your time. If you ganked top, you might have instead been able to gank bot and get in 2 kills instead of 1. Or maybe you could have counter jungled and killed their jungler. Or perhaps you really are not capable of getting any kills right now, so instead of trying to get them your best opportunity is simply to farm as hard as you can and be ready for late game.

Other lanes face opportunity costs as well, but they're significantly muted relative to the jungler. Most of laning complexity is in trades and last hitting.
 

mercviper

Member
You leave them to die when you feel that you can't contribute anything to both of your escape or the VIP's escape.

Ganking for jungle when all lanes are losing? uh.... I'm sure OddOne mentioned this but I forget....

Roaming mid is when your lane is pushed and you basically have nothing else to do.



Yeah, lol. That's a toughy because there's little the jungle CAN do. lol. OddOne gets mad all the time when this happens.

1 is more like, they're retreating at low hp vs 1-2 champs at low-half hp so I feel I can join and get us a couple of kills... and then 2 more enemies follow up from the fog as soon as I leap in.

3 is probably me not pushing it fast enough to go gank? It seems that every time I do roam/go further than doing wraiths in a lull I end up losing half the hp on my tower because my opponent stayed to push, and not getting a gank in the lane I roam to because by the time I'm down there my team is too low from already engaging so I feel like it was wasted. Conversely, every time I notice my mid opponent is mia and roaming I can't push it to their tower fast enough and they get the gank off. Makes me feel there's more to it and I should probably watch other lanes more, but I'm so focused on getting CS and trying to zone my opponent.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
1 is more like, they're retreating at low hp vs 1-2 champs at low-half hp so I feel I can join and get us a couple of kills... and then 2 more enemies follow up from the fog as soon as I leap in.

3 is probably me not pushing it fast enough to go gank? It seems that every time I do roam/go further than doing wraiths in a lull I end up losing half the hp on my tower because my opponent stayed to push, and not getting a gank in the lane I roam to because by the time I'm down there my team is too low from already engaging so I feel like it was wasted. Conversely, every time I notice my mid opponent is mia and roaming I can't push it to their tower fast enough and they get the gank off. Makes me feel there's more to it and I should probably watch other lanes more, but I'm so focused on getting CS and trying to zone my opponent.

Oh... well it'd help if you mentioned that earlier, lol. Ummm.... It depends and it's really your own personal call. It also depends on how fast your running partner responds.

Uhh... dunno about that.

Honestly, if you can't push enough for a gank then.. well... you can't really do much about it.

I meant both his release skins. The new oven Xerath skin is finally one he deserved.

OH. lol.

Yes, jungling is the ultimate test of opportunity cost. Even a successful gank may not have been the best use of your time. If you ganked top, you might have instead been able to gank bot and get in 2 kills instead of 1. Or maybe you could have counter jungled and killed their jungler. Or perhaps you really are not capable of getting any kills right now, so instead of trying to get them your best opportunity is simply to farm as hard as you can and be ready for late game.

Other lanes face opportunity costs as well, but they're significantly muted relative to the jungler. Most of laning complexity is in trades and last hitting.

I agree with this to a degree. Honestly, I think jungler has the most potential to be blamed during laning phase but at the same time they also have the right to say they changed up the dynamic of a lane leading to its victory as well. It sort of is opportunity cost. However, like I mentioned previously. Shirking responsibility is unacceptable. Unless you had a really really good reason.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Thing is jungler has *alot* more duties than your lane has, so what may be really important to you isn't important to him. I don't know how your game went down, so I can't say what happened but just because he didn't help didn't mean he failed.

-If skarner is camping you, than means your jungler has free reign to counter jungle, gank mid/bottom and easily secure dragon. All more important than your lane.
-How well were other lanes fairing?
-Maybe your lane was too far gone to help, that happens a lot. You had a fed top, and and a skarner up there. It might of been too much risk for too little reward to contest it.
-Was it warded at top at all? Going to gank blindly isn't fun at all.
 

Blizzard

Banned
They're can be at fault for lots of things. Not ganking when appropriate, not counter jungling when appropriate, not securing dragon or baron. Not warding. etc.

But they never cause a lane to lose, short of running into it and feeding the enemy.
This is one of the most annoying things a jungler can do. I've done it and I've had it done to me. It's really disheartening when you are holding or winning a lane, and one or two other players come into the lane to tower dive morde or something. He had no kills before? Well now he does! =P
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Thing is jungler has *alot* more duties than your lane has, so what may be really important to you isn't important to him. I don't know how your game went down, so I can't say what happened but just because he didn't help didn't mean he failed.

-If skarner is camping you, than means your jungler has free reign to counter jungle, gank mid/bottom and easily secure dragon.
-How well were other lanes fairing?
-Maybe your lane was too far gone to help, that happens a lot. You had a fed top, and and a skarner up there. It might of been too much risk for too little reward to contest it.
-Was it warded at top at all? Going to gank blindly isn't fun at all.

- No counter jungle, no securing dragon, one successful gank and the rest of them were ganks at inopportune times from what I saw (resulting in failed ganks)
-Mid wasn't doing that bad actually and bot was doing okay. I think... I wasn't paying attention to bot all that much other than the gank
-It was pushed up once or twice and the rest of the time Riven had it pushed to the bush closes to the tower for me.
- Top was warded numerous instances because I didn't want to get ganked.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Well, whatever the case I"ll say this. Top and Jungler are both my most played roles. So I know the frustration of both. I know how it sucks to be top, losing, and having no assistance from your jungler and wanting to blame them for not helping. At the same time I know how it sucks to be a jungler, and having to ignore someone for other objectives and feeling helpless you can't be everywhere at one time. I've come to the conclusion that when I'm top and I lose, it's me and only me. There's always something I could/shouldn't of done to of won my lane.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Well, whatever the case I"ll say this. Top and Jungler are both my most played roles. So I know the frustration of both. I know how it sucks to be top, losing, and having no assistance from your jungler and wanting to blame them for not helping. At the same time I know how it sucks to be a jungler, and having to ignore someone for other objectives and feeling helpless you can't be everywhere at one time. I've come to the conclusion that when I'm top and I lose, it's me and only me. There's always something I could/shouldn't of done to of won my lane.

Honestly, I consider top and jungling to be the hardest roles in the game. Not for me but I consider it to be essentially an unspoken rule and belief so I agree and sympathize with those that play them. Like I said, my problem is not that they did something wrong. My main problem is when people refuse to accept their mistakes and will continually make them believing that they are right.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Honestly, I consider top and jungling to be the hardest roles in the game. Not for me but I consider it to be essentially an unspoken rule and belief so I agree and sympathize with those that play them. Like I said, my problem is not that they did something wrong. My main problem is when people refuse to accept their mistakes and will continually make them believing that they are right.

But was it a mistake? Who's to say it would of turned out better if he came top? You assume that everything would of worked out fine, but that may of not been the case at all. Hell, he could of come top and you both could of died giving top another 2 kills. It's hard to quantify what would of happened if a jungler would of done something different.
 

Opiate

Member
I agree with this to a degree. Honestly, I think jungler has the most potential to be blamed during laning phase but at the same time they also have the right to say they changed up the dynamic of a lane leading to its victory as well. It sort of is opportunity cost. However, like I mentioned previously. Shirking responsibility is unacceptable. Unless you had a really really good reason.

I can think of a "really really good reason:" it's just a silly game that doesn't matter. I try because I find trying fun, not because it is an ethical or intellectual obligation.

This post is intended to be another reminder to everyone (and not just you, Kayos) to keep things in perspective.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
I can think of a "really really good reason:" it's just a silly game that doesn't matter.

I feel that when you're investing time and a great deal of your effort, and another person discounts that by discounting mistakes and such, it is considered rude. Having said that, how I behaved is also unacceptable. However it doesn't disprove what I said.

But was it a mistake? Who's to say it would of turned out better if he came top? You assume that everything would of worked out fine, but that may of not been the case at all. Hell, he could of come top and you both could of died giving top another 2 kills. It's hard to quantify what would of happened if a jungler would of done something different.

Even if the ganks did fail, it would mean that he was trying to pull off the proper method and procedure. I think you're confusing success and failure as to why I was angry. Like I said, success and failure had a hand in what caused me to be upset. It was the fact that he refused to admit he was wrong and then proceeded to ignore me.



Now to never play Cho' Gath.

Wow. You actually got it? Play cho tonight at least.

I can think of a "really really good reason:" it's just a silly game that doesn't matter. I try because I find trying fun, not because it is an ethical or intellectual obligation.

This post is intended to be another reminder to everyone (and not just you, Kayos) to keep things in perspective.

I think it's fine if a person thinks it's just a game. They have varying perspectives. However, if that perspective greatly influences a game and therefore creates problems and results in disrepsecting another person, I find great fault in that. However, the same can be said vice versa for those who force "try-hard" mode onto those who want to just have fun.

And it's fine if you're singling me out. It makes your message that much more potent. lol.
 

Blizzard

Banned
There might be less rage if League of Legends started everyone at level 3 (or 6, or 12) and gave everyone lots of items, and matches on Summoner's Rift only lasted 10 minutes each. As it is, it has the Left 4 Dead effect of being locked into a game for 30-70 minutes with a bunch of people from the Internet. Even ARAM can go for 30 minutes, if I recall correctly. Even Twisted Treeline can go 40-50 minutes. I go nuts playing maps like Hightower that long in TF2.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Even if the ganks did fail, it would mean that he was trying to pull off the proper method and procedure. I think you're confusing success and failure as to why I was angry. Like I said, success and failure had a hand in what caused me to be upset. It was the fact that he refused to admit he was wrong and then proceeded to ignore me.

But not bailing your ass out to tend to other things isn't a mistake. Failing ganks mid/bot and other things might of, but his choice help to fix your problem isn't.

Really from my limited knowledge of the game his only mistake was raging at you, but sounds to me like you were pointing a lot of fingers in the game from his comment.
 
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