In all honesty it's not sound rhetoric to create an argument without also mentioning your faults, which I didn't do. I recognize that. However, he still should recognize his mistakes. If he doesn't then that's on him and I feel sorry for anyone else who loses games because of his mistakes.
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- Thread starter SouthernDragon
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In all honesty it's not sound rhetoric to create an argument without also mentioning your faults, which I didn't do. I recognize that. However, he still should recognize his mistakes. If he doesn't then that's on him and I feel sorry for anyone else who loses games because of his mistakes.
What mistake? He just didn't go top to help *you* losing your lane? I'm not saying he didn't make any mistakes, and I can't claim he did/did not since I have no knowledge of the match. But not going top to help probably wasn't one of them.
Also think of it this way. The only reason it's his fault is because you failed. You claim the first 2 deaths were on your head and your responsiblity. So if you wouldn't of died those two times, suddenly he's cleared of any wrong doing. See how logically stupid that is?
Finn of Ooo
Member
As someone who jungles almost exclusively I'll say this, if top lane is being camped and I don't help then I'm doing something wrong. Now if top lane feeds a couple kills and then gets camped, or doesnt respond to retreat ping then I void all responsibility. Jungle is a tough role though, people think you owe them something, they forget that you have to farm as well.
Yup. That's unsavalgable lane. lol. Can't be helped.
Ferrio: We've been saying the same thing for about 3 rotations so we've reached the point where we made our points across. I think we got information as much as we could from the discussion.
jungling is the hardest role in the game, losing top lane is easy especially to champions like riven who can snowball to victory very easily.
the first thing i do as a jungler is to try and analyze all the matchups and see the items and the weaknesses in every lane to determine the best way to assist my team even though im giving up farm and gold (by buying red wards to ungrateful fucks who wont even acknowledge the shit your doing to them).
jungling not just "herp derp kills mobs and ban the nearest lane", there is much more to it.
since you went 0-2-0 then you lost your lane and if skarner was camping you then even if he was there it would have been a waste of time counter gank because you are already behind so hard in lane. tbh boots of mobility are bad on nautilus and if you get them on him then you dont have the right runes to jungle him (movement speed quint are a must) in the first place.
the first thing i do as a jungler is to try and analyze all the matchups and see the items and the weaknesses in every lane to determine the best way to assist my team even though im giving up farm and gold (by buying red wards to ungrateful fucks who wont even acknowledge the shit your doing to them).
jungling not just "herp derp kills mobs and ban the nearest lane", there is much more to it.
since you went 0-2-0 then you lost your lane and if skarner was camping you then even if he was there it would have been a waste of time counter gank because you are already behind so hard in lane. tbh boots of mobility are bad on nautilus and if you get them on him then you dont have the right runes to jungle him (movement speed quint are a must) in the first place.
Or you have MS quints and just want to go fast.
Schmattakopf
Member
Clearly not everyone shares this opinion.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Just woke up from the most amazing nap ever. How are you g...=/
I see we need these two videos again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVtmV0FzW_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnQ-5uFuDtc
You guys ever read Battle Royale? You remember that one guy that always says "stay frosty" when shit goes down? It may sound dumb but I just say that and take deep breathes for 10 seconds to calm down if I'm about to lash out at a teammate. Lashing out at randoms is one thing, you'll probably never see them again. But lashing out at gaffers is toxic to our community.
I see we need these two videos again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVtmV0FzW_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnQ-5uFuDtc
You guys ever read Battle Royale? You remember that one guy that always says "stay frosty" when shit goes down? It may sound dumb but I just say that and take deep breathes for 10 seconds to calm down if I'm about to lash out at a teammate. Lashing out at randoms is one thing, you'll probably never see them again. But lashing out at gaffers is toxic to our community.
I saw an Ocean-themed Sona but I don't think it's as well done as the one I posted yesterday.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Roles in the game from hard to easy, taking responsibility into account:
1.) Jungle
2.) AD Carry
3.) AP Mid
4.) Top lane
5.) Support
Jungle is by far the toughest job. No debate needed.
AD Carry - you HAVE to farm and carry the team late game or you are dead weight. If you feed a double kill bottom lane, you could very well be screwed the entire game. You are always one Blitzcrank Q away from having a bad time.
AP Mid - you are easier to gank than top but that goes for your lane opponent as well. If you keep wards up, this isn't a big problem. Even if you screw your farm, you usually have some utility and can gank bottom or top to even things up with some kills/assists, as opposed to the AD carry that has to farm bottom until mid/late game with very few exceptions.
Top lane - a very neutral lane. Even if you get hard countered you can usually farm close to your turret with little trouble and this opens your opponent for EASY ganks. You need less wards than other lanes.
Support - even if you are way behind, you have utility and that doesn't scale with items for most.
1.) Jungle
2.) AD Carry
3.) AP Mid
4.) Top lane
5.) Support
Jungle is by far the toughest job. No debate needed.
AD Carry - you HAVE to farm and carry the team late game or you are dead weight. If you feed a double kill bottom lane, you could very well be screwed the entire game. You are always one Blitzcrank Q away from having a bad time.
AP Mid - you are easier to gank than top but that goes for your lane opponent as well. If you keep wards up, this isn't a big problem. Even if you screw your farm, you usually have some utility and can gank bottom or top to even things up with some kills/assists, as opposed to the AD carry that has to farm bottom until mid/late game with very few exceptions.
Top lane - a very neutral lane. Even if you get hard countered you can usually farm close to your turret with little trouble and this opens your opponent for EASY ganks. You need less wards than other lanes.
Support - even if you are way behind, you have utility and that doesn't scale with items for most.
I can't agree with this because it depends on the phase of the game. Is this early, mid, or late game. Also on the team comp.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Overall. We're talking straight meta here. Obviously jungle's role diminishes late game.
having 400-425 ms is perfect anything beyond that is a waste.
too many variables, but top is definitely harder than ad in the lane phase because of how easy ganks can change the tides.
its divide into 2 rules :
assassinate the other carries (nocturne, shyvana, mundo ,malphite) or defend your carry (nautilus, udyr, maokai). its not useless but not as important as the ad carry role.
Finn of Ooo
Member
I'd disagree with mid being easier to gank than top, unless your mid has some hard cc, the enemy is just a flash or dash move away from safety. Ahri and fizz especially so.
Beyond that is moving at the speed of sound, quickest hedgehog around.
Schmattakopf
Member
I play bot games for my WotDs and I build move speed only. It's the best thing ever.
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
I am sorry but support is a harder role than ad carry, how hard is it to last hit anyway.
Support is the one that keep track of both junglers location (so they know when the best time to start fight), keep track of dragon and buff timer, setting up ward, keep track of enemy ward and time, doing all the harass, claiming bush and territories.
Support also make the call when to fight or retreat, most ad are tunnel visioned into last hit and harass so much, support had the bigger picture in mind and usually in the better position to make calls.
Of course if you just sit in a bush, heal and ward, it can be a simple role.....
Support is the one that keep track of both junglers location (so they know when the best time to start fight), keep track of dragon and buff timer, setting up ward, keep track of enemy ward and time, doing all the harass, claiming bush and territories.
Support also make the call when to fight or retreat, most ad are tunnel visioned into last hit and harass so much, support had the bigger picture in mind and usually in the better position to make calls.
Of course if you just sit in a bush, heal and ward, it can be a simple role.....
and support never gets recognition =/
0/4/18 go back to farmville.
Jazzy Network
Member
I think AD carry is harder because in team fights, positioning and targeting is key. Last hitting is just one of the things they need to do.
I'm going to have to carry even harder?
dem stats
Edit: Shit, there was another entire page?
I think Zyra is really strong, from what I've seen. Ahri is a good AP mid.
Sona, Taric, and Alistar.
Her Q thing does so much damage early on, and I was surprised how easily and quickly she bursts me down after landing her snare. Maybe if I had more experience playing against her, I'd think otherwise but for now I think she's a pretty strong pick.
Not to be mean but if you're a laner and not keeping track of the jungler, objectives, wards (at least your own, for the sake of your jungler), etc. then you're pretty bad. This is like the basic stuff to keep track of honestly. Certainly Support needs to have even BETTER map awareness but they shouldn't be the ONLY one doing it.
Zyra's greatest strength right now is her low skill requirement to pick her up. Landing an EWQW (or variations thereof) is pretty easy. Her base damage allows you to burst down many AP Mids.
In Dom, a good Zyra basically shouldn't lose to any non-gap closer bottom. It's sort of reflective of what she'll do in mid lane for SR just as far as her combo mechanics and the kind of output you're looking at. She pushes and holds a lane really well which lets her get a farm advantage if you're playing her right.
She does have her bad matchups though. Basically anything that gap closes or pressures really well. Ahri, for instance, shouldn't lose to a Zyra.
Shinji Mimura.
Because yes.
I like Zyra, but I'm terrible at her. Specifically I'm terrible at farm, probably because I run out of mana, and when I get plants shooting I miss lots of last hits against people who clear waves with one ability (since I'm building mana regen rather than AP early). She's nice with combos if you can land the snare, but against some champions or smart players I have a really hard time doing that.
I think this is the first time I've ever been matched against GAF people:
Someone invited me to a premade, I decided to back out and do solo draft instead. I got matched against these 4, kayos typed in chat that I was going to get destroyed or whatever, and sure enough I did. I'm a terrible gragas. But, my random premade was good so I was carried to victory.
I think this is the first time I've ever been matched against GAF people:
Someone invited me to a premade, I decided to back out and do solo draft instead. I got matched against these 4, kayos typed in chat that I was going to get destroyed or whatever, and sure enough I did. I'm a terrible gragas. But, my random premade was good so I was carried to victory.
I like Zyra, but I'm terrible at her. Specifically I'm terrible at farm, probably because I run out of mana, and when I get plants shooting I miss lots of last hits against people who clear waves with one ability (since I'm building mana regen rather than AP early). She's nice with combos if you can land the snare, but against some champions or smart players I have a really hard time doing that.
I think this is the first time I've ever been matched against GAF people:
Someone invited me to a premade, I decided to back out and do solo draft instead. I got matched against these 4, kayos typed in chat that I was going to get destroyed or whatever, and sure enough I did. I'm a terrible gragas. But, my random premade was good so I was carried to victory.
So sad.... T_T
Alistar is free, and arguably the best jungler in the game. Good luck playing a game where he isn't banned though. Also amumu, jax, malphite. All cheap and good junglers.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Amumu is very blue dependent and gets counter jungled like no tomorrow.
Malphite is getting banned pretty often too lately.
I don't have enough experience with jungle Jax to comment.
They're decent junglers but he's right when says the top tier junglers, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Nautilus, Shyvana, etc etc. Are all 6300 ip, which really sucks.
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
LOL (thanks for the laugh)
They are the most important class in team fight, but everyone need good positioning.
I think you give too much credit to the guy that just have to find a safe place to shoot, it is a lot more difficult for the other 4 people on the team trying to snipe enemy carry while protecting their own. No matter how good you are positioning as ad carry, if no one do a good job protecting you, you won't be doing much.
The only exception is vay with all the amazing wall stun, dodging, and sniping enemy in middle of a team fight. Or may be Ezreal with all the aiming, but no one should play Ez unless they know how to aim.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Nunu is OP right now IMO.
MultiCore
Member
Fixed.
Best post of today.
You're probably using her abilities way too often if you're running out of mana. She can pressure fairly well with minimal mana costs and that's even with E > Q (or Q > E) leveling. Save seeds as needed rather than using them as you have them in my opinion. Or at least pressure with them if you do use them. She farms really well and can push lane easily if you try too hard, however.
But, at the same time, the AD Carry HAS to be in good position otherwise they die and the fight is most likely lost. Their positioning is the most important of the team. Still, I do agree with you that AD Carry is a lot easier to play for the most part, it's just their positioning in team fights in the late game is beyond critical.
gogo Korea
Chaox saving the game for them basically.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Use Teevox.
http://teevox.com/#!/c=streams&ch=20&s0=709410&p=3
You never miss popular streams ever again. GG
I'm watching it from CLG's site.
http://clgaming.net/live/7200-mlg-league-of-legends
Chaox is hard carrying to a ridiculous level but TSM is so behind on turrets they might roll over because of the early advantage the other team got.
http://clgaming.net/live/7200-mlg-league-of-legends
Chaox is hard carrying to a ridiculous level but TSM is so behind on turrets they might roll over because of the early advantage the other team got.
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