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[kiunchbb]

Yeah, I'm not too big a fan either, specially since the mana is a waste on Ahri. Now I'm thinking of Rylai's again...

So Abyss->Rylai's->Zhonya's/Rab? Uh...

Either doran abyss -> hourglass/rab
or doran rylais -> hourglass/rab ->void

Abyssal if you're team have lots of ap dmg, and no one is building it. Rylais if your team lack slow, or running kiting comp against tanky.

Hourglass if you getting focus, rab if your ad getting focus.

Rylais is actually pretty optional, but if you can't aim (or playing the game dead tire), run it, other wise, dorans to deathcap will help you win game faster. The health/defense is really a waste stats on a champ with so much mobility. However, you must keep in mind that if your aiming isn't that great, deathcap will be a waste stats too lol, so I usually just rush rylias. Also take into consideration on how good your opponent is at dodging.

 

[scy]

The damage isn't at cast. It's when the roots spread out and it hits you. Granted, it's so fast that it is essentially the same thing. lol.

True. You can theoretically flash the ult damage (or whatever other invuln frames, e.g., I fucking hate you Fizz). Still, my point stands that it's weird that the damage and knockup are separate.

 

[kayos90]

True. You can theoretically flash the ult damage (or whatever other invuln frames, e.g., I fucking hate you Fizz). Still, my point stands that it's weird that the damage and knockup are separate.

I think logically it makes sense. I mean if it comes to the center rapidly it's going to induce some sort of CC effect and that's what they were trying to go for. Anyway, like someone mentioned, I'd rather have the AoE be a smaller diameter rather than reduce the cast range.

 

[scy]

I think logically it makes sense. I mean if it comes to the center rapidly it's going to induce some sort of CC effect and that's what they were trying to go for. Anyway, like someone mentioned, I'd rather have the AoE be a smaller diameter rather than reduce the cast range.

I suppose. I just think that the damage should happen at the time of the knockup. It just seems weird to me, I guess. Not that I'm complaining, per se, about the damage being nearly instant. Just find it weird :x

 

[kayos90]

I suppose. I just think that the damage should happen at the time of the knockup. It just seems weird to me, I guess. Not that I'm complaining, per se, about the damage being nearly instant. Just find it weird :x

Honestly, I think if the damage was at knockup, that would be sort of dumb. I already consider the Morg ult to be somewhat awkward that it does damage at the actual bind. Meh... might just be me.

 

[scy]

Honestly, I think if the damage was at knockup, that would be sort of dumb. I already consider the Morg ult to be somewhat awkward that it does damage at the actual bind. Meh... might just be me.

I know, just add damage to her knockup!

 

[EXGN]

Rayven - one request. Special interaction - when Leona gets an assist on a Diana kill, make her awkwardly shout "I WANTED TO BE THE ONE TO FILL HER DARK SOUL WITH LIGHT!"

 

[scy]

Rayven - one request. Special interaction - when Leona gets an assist on a Diana kill, make her awkwardly shout "I WANTED TO BE THE ONE TO FILL HER DARK SOUL WITH LIGHT!"

I am so disappointed that there aren't champion interactions like this.

 

[Ferrio]

I am so disappointed that there aren't champion interactions like this.

Voli and zilean have one.

 

[scy]

Voli and zilean have one.

New favorite champs

 

[XeroSauce]

Well, the nerf is designed for players with good map awareness, and have ability to aim.

It is too bad we got caught in between

AP champ with no escape, at least in the crappy champion hell, ori, swain, tf, mord, lux... will keep her company.

Ori has a self-speed up, TF has an on-demand stun, Lux has a snare and slow, Swain has snare and slow.

Zyra only has snare, and short-ranged/hard to hit. :/

 

[zkylon]

Either doran abyss -> hourglass/rab
or doran rylais -> hourglass/rab ->void

Abyssal if you're team have lots of ap dmg, and no one is building it. Rylais if your team lack slow, or running kiting comp against tanky.

Hourglass if you getting focus, rab if your ad getting focus.

Rylais is actually pretty optional, but if you can't aim (or playing the game dead tired), run it, other wise, dorans to deathcap will help you win game faster. The health/defense is really a waste stats on a champ with so much mobility. However, you must keep in mind that if your aiming isn't that great, deathcap will be a waste stats too lol, so I usually just rush rylias. Also take into consideration on how good your opponent is at dodging.

Yeah, that sounds alright. I kinda want the extra health from RoA/Rylai's because I stopped building WotA and I feel I need to fountain more than I wish to.

Rayven - one request. Special interaction - when Leona gets an assist on a Diana kill, make her awkwardly shout "I WANTED TO BE THE ONE TO FILL HER DARK SOUL WITH LIGHT!"

lol

 

[dimb]

Zyra only has snare, and short-ranged/hard to hit. :/

1300 range. 1300. Come on guys. And you can't even mess it up by hitting a target before the one you want.

Karthus and TF have really safe ranges for mid harass and farm. TF has a stun. Annie has a stun. Veigar has a stun. Karthus escape options are pretty bad though.

Annie stun isn't always up, and you might only be able to throw it down on one target, and by the time you can with her range you could already be caught in some CC. I bought up champs like Karthus and TF because of how difficult team fighting can be with them if you get caught at all.

Zyra is a very low risk high reward champion at all phases of the game with no real flaws to her kit. I don't really feel like I could say this about any other champ.

 

[brian!]

that fucking lord of the rings shit when you log in

 

[Blizzard]

These are some of the most drastic nerfs to any champion in one go. How can you possibly sit there and pretend like Zyra is weak or something. Zyra is constantly banned and has the highest win rate in the last month.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Which numbers are you going by for win rate though? According to lolking.net, in the past month on normal, Amumu, Rumble, Taric, and Malphite all have higher win rates than Zyra. In "All Ranked", only Rumble has a higher win rate though (lol 60%). It may be worth noting, however, that Zyra's popularity in ranked is low compared to some of the other champions, so there may be some factor of people not knowing how to properly counter and play against her.

One thing I learned from researching this is that EVERYONE PLAYS EZREAL. D:

Voli and zilean have one.

I don't know about interactions, but when I played Renekton like 10 years ago he constantly whined about Nasus (or vice versa). It was kind of annoying.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Honestly, for LoL 2.0 the champs should have DotA-style interactions. Riot has invested a LOT of time into the lore, but it kinda disappears entirely in-game.

 

[Achtius]

LoL 2.0? did i miss something while I was on vacation

 

[Ferrio]

LoL 2.0? did i miss something while I was on vacation

Think he's referring to the gradual shift to more complex champions and systems. They're phasing out all the old shitty art, new legendaries are amazing, old legendaries are worse than regular skins etc.

 

[kiunchbb]

Honestly, I think if the damage was at knockup, that would be sort of dumb. I already consider the Morg ult to be somewhat awkward that it does damage at the actual bind. Meh... might just be me.

Half at cast, other half at bind

Ori has a self-speed up, TF has an on-demand stun, Lux has a snare and slow, Swain has snare and slow.

Zyra only has snare, and short-ranged/hard to hit. :/

Compare to ahri, swain, lux and morgana her snare can barely call a skillshot.

TF have to wait for the random rotation to stun.

You also completely ignore zyra ability to set seed as ward to avoid gang. She also can place seed before casting snare, so even if the snare missed, the plant will keep slowing them.

If Zyra isn't consider safe in lane, ahri must be free gold for enemy team in the first 15 minute.

 

[scy]

Annie stun isn't always up, and you might only be able to throw it down on one target, and by the time you can with her range you could already be caught in some CC. I bought up champs like Karthus and TF because of how difficult team fighting can be with them if you get caught at all.

Flash stun is still an escape. Just like Flash snare is. But it's not a great escape. It's not a case of "Zyra has a bad escape unlike everyone else" but that "Zyra has a bad escape like everyone else." Just because other champions share that scenario doesn't somehow negate that it's still a bad escape.

She dies really easily when things get on her. She's forced to quickly use her Flash to get out of bad situations. It's nothing unique to her but it is her situation. Bringing up champions in the same boat doesn't change anything about her situation.

Zyra is a very low risk high reward champion at all phases of the game with no real flaws to her kit. I don't really feel like I could say this about any other champ.

Her early-to-mid game is strong and her team fight presence is really high (plant damage, knockup). I wish she'd have a higher skill requirement rather than just changing her numbers but, eh, I suppose that's harder to do than numbers.

Compare to ahri, swain, lux and morgana her snare can barely call a skillshot.

If you're getting ganked, you shouldn't miss Ahri Charm, Lux Snare, or Morgana Snare either at close ranges. Swain snare is pretty shitty though. Missing their skillshot on an engaging target requires you to really miss or get drastically outplayed.

TF have to wait for the random rotation to stun.

It's about a 1s setup. Depends on how the gank forms if that's not enough time to get a gold card.

You also completely ignore zyra ability to set seed as ward to avoid gang. She also can place seed before casting snare, so even if the snare missed, the plant will keep slowing them.

Most Zyra players still buy wards since W is leveled last, though. Using seeds for a temp ward is possible but it's not a replacement for mid warding.

 

[dimb]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Which numbers are you going by for win rate though? According to lolking.net, in the past month on normal, Amumu, Rumble, Taric, and Malphite all have higher win rates than Zyra. In "All Ranked", only Rumble has a higher win rate though (lol 60%). It may be worth noting, however, that Zyra's popularity in ranked is low compared to some of the other champions, so there may be some factor of people not knowing how to properly counter and play against her.

One thing I learned from researching this is that EVERYONE PLAYS EZREAL. D:


I don't know about interactions, but when I played Renekton like 10 years ago he constantly whined about Nasus (or vice versa). It was kind of annoying.

Don't check Normal. It's Blind Pick and stuff. I just went off NA servers and filtered by the plat level. Now that Rumble got nerfed Zyra wins at all levels though in the past week. Zyra isn't popular in ranked because she is banned too.

And yeah, Easyreal is the strongest AD carry right now. I picked him up just recently to bandwagon and because I'm embarrassed to pick Graves.

Check mid lane matchups by the way. Zyra wins every single one, sometimes by a really high amount.

 

[Pancakes]

Dem bans!

 

[kayos90]

Don't check Normal. It's Blind Pick and stuff. I just went off NA servers and filtered by the plat level. Now that Rumble got nerfed Zyra wins at all levels though in the past week. Zyra isn't popular in ranked because she is banned too.

And yeah, Easyreal is the strongest AD carry right now. I picked him up just recently to bandwagon and because I'm embarrassed to pick Graves.

Check mid lane matchups by the way. Zyra wins every single one, sometimes by a really high amount.

Zyra vs Zyra lane is the dumbest lane I've ever seen in LoL history though. lol.

 

[scy]

Dem bans!

Bans Ahri, Alistar, and Janna.

First picks Nasus.

 

[kiunchbb]

Flash stun is still an escape. Just like Flash snare is. But it's not a great escape. It's not a case of "Zyra has a bad escape unlike everyone else" but that "Zyra has a bad escape like everyone else." Just because other champions share that scenario doesn't somehow negate that it's still a bad escape.

I thought the arguement was Zyra is super strong, and someone suddenly argue that Zyra is balance since she is very easy to gang? If she has bad escape like everyone else, while at the same time being a lot more powerful, then she is OP.

She dies really easily when things get on her. She's forced to quickly use her Flash to get out of bad situations. It's nothing unique to her but it is her situation. Bringing up champions in the same boat doesn't change anything about her situation.



Her early-to-mid game is strong and her team fight presence is really high (plant damage, knockup). I wish she'd have a higher skill requirement rather than just changing her numbers but, eh, I suppose that's harder to do than numbers.

A good change will be putting a global cd on when she set the seed, that way instead of casting seed on reaction, she had to predict enemy movement like hiem.

If you're getting ganked, you shouldn't miss Ahri Charm, Lux Snare, or Morgana Snare either at close ranges. Swain snare is pretty shitty though. Missing their skillshot on an engaging target requires you to really miss or get drastically outplayed.

That is why we said Zyra is safe in lane, which was our point

It's about a 1s setup. Depends on how the gank forms if that's not enough time to get a gold card.

1 seconds is very long time in a bursty paper cannon lane with ignite. Jungle only have to flash and land 1 or 2 hits with red on you, the ap can burst you down to zero with ignite. If it is maokai TF can only throw Q near his tower without his flash. That is why skillshot is a lot better, because you can stop them outside of flash range

Most Zyra players still buy wards since W is leveled last, though. Using seeds for a temp ward is possible but it's not a replacement for mid warding.

Zyra doesn't have a choice, unless you want to go back to buy ward at first 15 min, if that's the case you already lost 2 waves of minions worth of gold + xp.

Zyra get W at level 2, it stack up to 2, and you can place up to 4, which mean there are no point on holding 2 seeds. You might as well set them as a mini ward so another seed can regenerate.

Soda and I was trying to argue that zyra is safe in lane (compare to other ap), but it seems like you agree with that.

 

[kayos90]

Soda and I was trying to argue that zyra is safe in lane (compare to other ap), but it seems like you agree with that.

It's summons who's saying otherwise. *sigh*

 

[brian!]

***************sigh***************

 

[Ferrio]

So anyone trying diana yet?

 

[IsayFever]

Diana's ability to assassinate an ad carry too good.

 

[kayos90]

Diana's ability to assassinate an ad carry too good.

Better than Akali?

 

[garath]

Better than Akali?

You know, I had a typed out response that she shouldn't be a better assassin than Akali due to Akali's 3 gap closers and no skillshot Q vs Diana's 2 gap closers providing you hit the skillshot but Diana does more base damage and has better AP ratios and her E draws in and slows giving her free shots.

It's a toss up.

 

[Ferrio]

You know, I had a typed out response that she shouldn't be a better assassin than Akali due to Akali's 3 gap closers and no skillshot Q vs Diana's 2 gap closers providing you hit the skillshot but Diana does more base damage and has better AP ratios and her E draws in and slows giving her free shots.

It's a toss up.

One can jungle though.

 

[garath]

One can jungle though.

Yeah. If only Akali could jungle..

But on the flip side, Akali has built in sustain with her passive which makes her a better laner.

 

[IsayFever]

You know, I had a typed out response that she shouldn't be a better assassin than Akali due to Akali's 3 gap closers and no skillshot Q vs Diana's 2 gap closers providing you hit the skillshot but Diana does more base damage and has better AP ratios and her E draws in and slows giving her free shots.

It's a toss up.

It's the draw in that makes her so good I've found. Plus low enough cds to just Q the carry again and teleport back onto them. She also isn't as somewhat squishy as akali is early game too, so early teamfights she can still kill easy

 

[scy]

Soda and I was trying to argue that zyra is safe in lane (compare to other ap), but it seems like you agree with that.

She's relatively safe, but no more than basically every other good mid laner. To claim that she's extremely safe is more baffling than saying she isn't safe, to be honest. That is my only problem with anything here: Zyra is just as "safe" as many other mid laners. Which is to say, has Flash + an escape and will die easily if they're down/missed.

I thought the arguement was Zyra is super strong, and someone suddenly argue that Zyra is balance since she is very easy to gang? If she has bad escape like everyone else, while at the same time being a lot more powerful, then she is OP.

Depends on your definition of OP, I suppose. I disagree that she's broken tier. I do agree that she needs to be toned down some, however.

A good change will be putting a global cd on when she set the seed, that way instead of casting seed on reaction, she had to predict enemy movement like hiem.

Perhaps. At least some delay so you can't just double tap the two seeds at the very least.

1 seconds is very long time in a bursty paper cannon lane with ignite. Jungle only have to flash and land 1 or 2 hits with red on you, the ap can burst you down to zero with ignite. If it is maokai TF can only throw Q near his tower without his flash. That is why skillshot is a lot better, because you can stop them outside of flash range

So when are we starting the clock for the gold card? When the Jungler enters the lane? When he Flashed? Did you Flash then W or W then Flash? That's what I meant by depending on how the gank forms. If you get caught by the Jungler before you even knew he was there, it doesn't matter what your escape is. That is just bad map awareness / positioning / Nocturne ult.

If you're saying you can skillshot block the Flash, you had more than enough time to setup a Gold card to deal with their Flash. Not saying it is an ideal situation since this basically means trading Flashes (though, blowing theirs and saving yours is the best case scenario here) but it's not exactly a terrible situation.

Zyra doesn't have a choice, unless you want to go back to buy ward at first 15 min, if that's the case you already lost 2 waves of minions worth of gold + xp.

Zyra get W at level 2, it stack up to 2, and you can place up to 4, which mean there are no point on holding 2 seeds. You might as well set them as a mini ward so another seed can regenerate.

Placing it also means ~15s of reduced damage since you don't have both seeds available. Come the change (half damage vs 75%), I imagine this won't be that big of a deal anymore. It is nice to be able to do this before your first back though. It just isn't that big of a deal after that first back.

 

[IsayFever]

Can we just sum it up to Zyra is retardedly overpowered and is getting the nerf she drastically needs?

 

[garath]

It's the draw in that makes her so good I've found. Plus low enough cds to just Q the carry again and teleport back onto them. She also isn't as somewhat squishy as akali is early game too, so early teamfights she can still kill easy

Yeah. Not only is it a draw in, but it's 55% slow at max level. That's more than gunblade . In the early levels that shield must help her survivability too.

 

[brian!]

akali can jungle

 

[kayos90]

Can we just sum it up to Zyra is retardedly overpowered and is getting the nerf she drastically needs?

I can live with that.

akali can jungle

lol. Just not a very good jungle.

 

[scy]

Yeah. Not only is it a draw in, but it's 55% slow at max level. That's more than gunblade . In the early levels that shield must help her survivability too.

The bigger part is going to be the draw, though. Two seconds on her slow vs, say, Lee Sin's 60%/4s.

 

[Ferrio]

The bigger part is going to be the draw, though. Two seconds on her slow vs, say, Lee Sin's 60%/4s.

That cooldown though...

 

[dimb]

She's relatively safe, but no more than basically every other good mid laner.

She just wins all of her lanes because...why? Did Riot nerf her because she was too weak?

 

[Schmattakopf]

Stole a double kill early game by accident because of stupid cow passive.

 

[Ferrio]

Nashor's tooth Diana WOOOO

 

[zkylon]

akali can jungle

I only jungle with her when playing against bots (helping a buddy test a new champ, etc.) and that's only not to share a lane lol.

 

[kayos90]

Nashor's tooth Diana WOOOO

Let's just build Rageblade while we're at it.

 

[Ferrio]

Let's just build Rageblade while we're at it.

Actually nashor's might not be bad. All those stats are nice.. question is how innate tanky is she? As well as how good is her passive (radius)

 

[scy]

That cooldown though...

26s-18s, though you really only need it the one time when ganking. Ideally, anyway ... :x

She just wins all of her lanes because...why? Did Riot nerf her because she was too weak?

She's relatively safe in lane, just like nearly every other good mid laner, and she's really effective in lane (arguably too good, especially for the level of effort needed for her combo). Not sure what else you want me to say.

Actually nashor's might not be bad. All those stats are nice.. question is how innate tanky is she? As well as how good is her passive.

Base stat wise, she has it pretty good (438/90 HP, 16/3.6 Armor, 30/1.25 MR) and her passive goes up to ~290 (300?) Damage with .6 AP scaling.

I honestly kind of expected Nashor's for her.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

Does anyone have any recommendations on some troll builds that are actually viable. The Tiamat stacking builds seem to be the most viable trolling builds. I want to enjoy trolling and winning against other teams while my ELO rating is still dirt low.

 

[kayos90]

Does anyone have any recommendations on some troll builds that are actually viable. The Tiamat stacking builds seem to be the most viable trolling builds. I want to enjoy trolling and winning against other teams while my ELO rating is still dirt low.

Stacking 3 BT 2 PD and 1 Berserker's greaves. Works on almost every champ. lol.