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League of Legends |OT2| So free, it's only 8000 USD!
- Thread starter SouthernDragon
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Legato.Reborn-
Member
And one big competitor has revenue flowing in from different venues.
Does Riot have that too?
Look, I'm not saying it wouldn't be glorious to have all the champs for free (it would) but it is what it is you know?
I'm certain the Riot has what is one of the most popular games out there and that their time is extremely valuable.
I kind of like the champion collection thing. "Gotta buy them all"
on a side note. I find myself looking forward to the impending diana nerf (hopefully today). She is perpetually banned now and I can't play my favorite champion that I paid good money for dammit.
Inskipp
Member
This is a key-point. Valve makes tons of money off the Steam- platform, allowing their games to act as loss leaders for their platform. Not many companies have that luxury.
Riot is owned by the third largest internet company in the world. They aren't a struggling indie dev anymore.
Do you have a source that Valve loses money on their games?
Do you have a source that Valve loses money on their games?
No but they also can't get away with using their game as a Trojan Horse to get people on a service. Look it's nice to want things to be free and all, but the business model is what it is and I don't harbor contempt for companies based on their desire to make money. In no way do I feel slighted or taken advantage of by Riot, because if I did I'd stop playing. I get a lot out of League for very little.
Unrelated, but I am trying to pick Darius up after seeing him in MLG recently. He is quite possibly one of the easiest champions to farm on, but I really need to work on team fighting with him. There are very small intricacies to him that I just have trouble picking up, like the grab range, the number of blood stacks, and the delay on the execute. It really is fun to just kind of bowl around the map as Darius though.
Inskipp
Member
I don't think I ever claimed that they lose money on them, which makes it that much more effective.
Legato.Reborn-
Member
At the same time, it's not like Phreak is just Schrooge McDucking in pools of Riot money at his mansion. Riot is still investing a lot of money back into the game and isn't sitting on mounds of profit.
I've heard from some people who work with Riot in the eSports scene that the company is taking a huge loss right now to really promote the eSports aspect of the game. Millions of dollars are going to prize pools, player salaries, accommodations, coverage, etc. I've heard Riot is actually losing money by investing so heavily in the eSports scene right now, but the company hopes to recoup these loses within five years as the game continues to grow and the eSports audience expands.
That's also why they take a very hard stance on unprofessional behavior that could tarnish the image of LOL as a serious eSport (the Dig/Crs ARAM being the most notable example).
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Inskipp
Member
That is so what? He has a point.
Riot is trying to force their way into the eSports, like, hardcore. I'm not certain why they're trying so hard though. If your game is competitive by nature and people and has solid mechanics I think people will take to playing it competitively on their own. Didn't league as an "eSport" (I hate that word) take off on it's own original and then Riot said "Hey look at this lets throw money at it." ?
This is the problem I have with League of Legends as an eSport right now. The whole thing screams "Hey me too!"
Also might help if Riot stopped trying to pay people to not allow other MOBAs in events. That shit is just sad.
Eh, considering the amount of people that follow it and all, I wouldn't really say it's a "me too" situation. League is already up there with SC2 as far as things are concerned.
I dunno, the audience seems pretty organic to me. If you look at last year's Season 1 finals, Riot didn't even have a spectator mode built in yet, but LOL was still dwarfing the numbers of StarCraft 2. It only seems like they've been pushing it as an eSport over the past year, after the audience was already there.
I do agree that Riot is spending a lot of money at eSports, but at the same time, I'm not sure if "forcing" is that right word for it when it was already beating other games in terms of viewers before Riot even began to focus on it. I would say Riot is more responding to demand, rather than forcing.
viewers are important, but having live audience is much more important.
I agree with this post. I see it as the competitive community had some momentum. Riot sees it as a good thing and is trying to push it along. It's a good thing as it's really tough to get competitive e-sports rolling strong without support.
Inskipp
Member
He does have a point with Riot inflating the major league scene with their own money, making the scene very dependent on them. If Riot were to drop support anytime soon, the scene would degrade very quickly.
I'm sure Riot has good intentions, but I'm not sure how they intend to fix the problem, or if they even acknowledge it. But it is a worrisome bubble that Riot has built up.
I'm trying to figure out why League has such a huge fanbase when it comes to the tournament games. It dwarfed SC2 almost instantly.
I think it's in part due to the fact that the game is free. I also think it's due in part to how "pandery" the game. I don't mean to say that in a negative way and it might be an ignorant statement, but I can't shake that thought.
I think it's in part due to the fact that the game is free. I also think it's due in part to how "pandery" the game. I don't mean to say that in a negative way and it might be an ignorant statement, but I can't shake that thought.
I think SR "feels" more like an arena, so clutch plays and team fights really make it feel like you're watching a sporting event...
I think the tourney streams etc. are popular because it's relatively easy to follow what's going on, the game is addictive, and you get the feeling (probably false hope) that if you played another 200 hours, you might raise your elo and improve etc.
I don't think it's due to pandering if you mean sexual pandering, since pretty much the only time you even see skins is at the loading screen, and even then it's only a small shot rather than the whole splash art. Ingame (especially with tourneys) it's zoomed way out all the time.
I don't think it's due to pandering if you mean sexual pandering, since pretty much the only time you even see skins is at the loading screen, and even then it's only a small shot rather than the whole splash art. Ingame (especially with tourneys) it's zoomed way out all the time.
True enough, I suppose. I just don't think I agree with saying that Riot is forcing LoL into the competitive scene: It was already there. They're just nurturing it. Aggressively nurturing it but still.
I honestly don't think the fanservice pandering skins matter anywhere near that much as far as the eSports and competitive scene is concerned.
Legato.Reborn-
Member
Okay a few things -
I don't think Valve and Riot compare apples and apples when you say Archie has a point. Valve has these products (Steam) that are generating god knows how much revenue for the company right? What is Riot's form of revenue? My understanding is the skins and etc purchases (boosts - ip/rp) -- at least for the main form of revenue. So you see my understanding of it correct? So now when you two come into the thread and say, "well league guys come on Riot ain't no indie studio" well of course not. But there's a significant difference between having products of your own that generate revenue for you and being owned by a "wealthy?" company (Tencent). What are the relationships between EA and the companies you like?
Now I have absolutely 0% understanding of how the Tencent/Riot relationship works (it's just share owning isn't it?) but Tencent doesn't give.. oh say for shits 10mil annually to Riot right?
So how does this make sense at all in that argument? How is there a point in that? I just don't get it.
Inskipp
Member
Well there's that, and the fact that they promote the events within their own client. Any major tournament (MLG, IEM and the likes) are displayed in the AIR- client.
I thought we already covered the whole Valve/Riot thing. I'm pretty sure that any reasonable person who follows both companies can understand how both companies function and why they do things in their way.
Legato.Reborn-
Member
I hadn't refreshed since classes lol
It's definitely because it is and always has been a free game. Watching MOBAs almost entirely devolves into understanding the game mechanics. Almost anyone can watch fighting games and understand a depleting life bar means a character is getting hurt or that someones losing if they just got knocked around by a 7-hit combo. I think the same can be said for RTS's for the most part - armies are easy to gauge by looking at numbers or the size of units, or a player with a sprawling massive base is obviously doing better than someone with only a few buildings.
MOBAs, on the other hand, aren't intuitive for a number of reasons. First, half the time, character don't look like their role. You have characters like Diana that are armed long swords but are casters, or big burly drunken men like Gragas that look light fighters, or big demon knight guys with huge maces (Morde) who are casters. Meanwhile, you have Leona and Taric, clad in armor with massive weapons and shields, and they are weak support classes.
Additionally, other factors that aren't apparent - items, character match ups, team interactions - that make it very difficult to gauge which team is winning. Look at the 2nd game between Curse and Dignitas at MLG, for example - up until the 20 minute mark, the game was remarkably even in terms of gold and kills. Then Dig wins one team fight and steam rolls through Curse's base - if you don't know how to play the game, how are you supposed to understand what just happened in a chaotic team fight?
Making LOL free ensures that everyone who plays it can, at some level, understand what's happening in pro matches. In that sense, the more people that Riot can get to play LOL, the greater audience for these pro matches will be.
It's different than say, Street Fighter, in which someone like me - who has only played a few games - can watch Street Fighter games and still sorta follow what's happening. The Street Fighter audience has room to grow, regardless of active user base, whereas LOL will only grow as more people play and understand it.
Barrel Cannon
Member
Just to add to that the fact that in tournaments many teams use primarily cheaper costing champs encourages new players to be able to use them as well and understand those playstyles better. I initially started playing LoL with Jax and Nunu because of watching them and seeing how they worked a bit. Another thing is the free rotations. It encourages you to learn a couple champs at a time and witness other champs as you play allowing you to learn the ropes slowly. You are matched with players who generally have the same amount of champs as you and mostly free week rotations. That ease into learning I felt was important early on for me. You don't get that in DOTA 2 where you are put head first into a massive character selection screen. I played the original DotA in it's heyday for a bit but only for a little while due to feeling overwhelmed by it all. I didn't feel that with League.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
League is accessible. One-button recall, brushes to hide you, summoner spells, no clearly defined champion roles (almost anyone can jungle), the ability to stack items, no gold lost upon death, turrets that warn you when they attack you, etc. It's also more colourful.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
these are just good game design, Dota 2 really needs better indication on a lot of the spells and abilities imo, same with when a player has aggro.
XeroSauce
Member
Inskipp
Member
Not in an efficient manner... That's like saying anyone can play as AD- carry.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
i miss you guys
come play gw2 with me T_T
I already am!
It's true, I saw __________ play AD TF/Support Sion/Supper Kayle so that must mean he's viable so Ill play him in ranked because reasons.
Those just come with experience really. I see what you're saying but neither of them is really necessary either. Not everything in a game should be spelled out for you, there should be some sense of discovery as well IMO.
Inskipp
Member
I thought you could enable range- indicators on spells via the Autoexec? Also iirc, there is a distinct sound effect that procs whenever the tower is hitting you, so there is some form of indication there.
I do wish Dota 2 supported smartcasting properly, it just feels so sluggish to play without it.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
AD Leblanc is actually pretty good.
Luck is so random. Last night I had afk teammates, feeders, and I was feeding horribly with Katarina (I've lost like 60-70% of games with her since the remake). Tonight I picked Lux against Katarina, and I practically NEVER play Lux, and I went like 3/0/9 and had great teammates carry me.
I have stopped buying RP because I am tired of every new champ costing 6300. I also think that, typically, they release champions in an OP state to make more sales.
If they start releasing champions at lower prices, I may consider purchasing RP again. It probably doesn't matter, but I believe in speaking with my wallet.
I'm looking at Rengar and the recent reworks and laughing heartily.
That's why I said 'typically'.
i miss you guys
come play gw2 with me T_T
I am! lol.
SouthernDragon
Member
Personally, I tend to buy them with IP.
I'm already at, like, 2k.
I'm already at, like, 2k.
I only bought one with RP. My point is that I disagree with the way they're running the company, so I don't give them money any longer. I have probably 75% of the champions and about 9k IP saved up.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Broke my record and got an Infinity Edge by 14:00 today with Cait.
Got so fed off a failed jungle/mid gank that went horribly wrong.
Got so fed off a failed jungle/mid gank that went horribly wrong.
Love those games. Isn't it fun to come out with the IE and just start killing everything in a few shots. Then the complaints come, oh fuck this person is really fed.
Inskipp
Member
I hope you had Nunu supporting you. Makes that early IE that much more sweeter.
Legato.Reborn-
Member
i'm still holding out for my armored bear to become a true armored bear
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