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[methane47]

I played a match yesterday with a terrrible Leona.

We were bot against Fizz and Nidalee... to start the match Leona engaged and I jumped ontop of fizz and we took him out... i thought it was going to go well... Leona proceeded to stay directly next to the bush killing mobs taking pokes from Nidalee spears for some idiotic reason...

After she died she started fail ganking all over the map, leaving me Solo bot as Tristana.

Anyways Leona would ever now and again roll down to bot and proceed to Push hard, and didn't bother to check the bush... OF course enemies were waiting and even though i tried to help a couple times, they would get both kills... I gave up with Leona and bot lane and started ganking mid and top. Managed to get some items early, decided to hold off on a BF and just farmed enough to buy a IE right out.

At this point in the match i was 1-4
After getting IE the match turned around, i eventually ended the match with 10 kills ... highest on my team + the win...
Ppl on the other team then started complaining that Ziggs (Who was on my team) was OP. Despite him having less kills than me...

 

[Inskipp]

Overall look of OT is pretty solid, but I think the learning center could be highlighted better, since it's a good source of info. Could also be paired with the LoL- wiki, should someone want to look for something specific. Also could use some follow-up sections for those interested on reading more advanced/selective stuff, such as this or that.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I played a match yesterday with a terrrible Leona.

We were bot against Fizz and Nidalee... to start the match Leona engaged and I jumped ontop of fizz and we took him out... i thought it was going to go well... Leona proceeded to stay directly next to the bush killing mobs taking pokes from Nidalee spears for some idiotic reason...

After she died she started fail ganking all over the map, leaving me Solo bot as Tristana.

Anyways Leona would ever now and again roll down to bot and proceed to Push hard, and didn't bother to check the bush... OF course enemies were waiting and even though i tried to help a couple times, they would get both kills... I gave up with Leona and bot lane and started ganking mid and top. Managed to get some items early, decided to hold off on a BF and just farmed enough to buy a IE right out.

At this point in the match i was 1-4
After getting IE the match turned around, i eventually ended the match with 10 kills ... highest on my team + the win...
Ppl on the other team then started complaining that Ziggs (Who was on my team) was OP. Despite him having less kills than me...

The thing with Leona is that there isn't really a middle ground for playing her.

You either play really well and get your carry kills or you initiate at the wrong times and feed.

With other supports they can contribute outside of initiation, where as that's all Leona has.

I've only played Leona once in a ranked game and it went really well. If you stagger your ability use your carry can get up to three procs of her passive for a good amount of additional damage.

Depending on who you are paired up with and who you are fighting, you can instagib the enemy carry. She is also good for getting runners due to the long range on her ult.

 

[zkylon]

I'd like a huge BUY WARDS sign

The thing with Leona is that there isn't really a middle ground for playing her.

You either play really well and get your carry kills or you initiate at the wrong times and feed.

With other supports they can contribute outside of initiation, where as that's all Leona has.

I've only played Leona once in a ranked game and it went really well. If you stagger your ability use your carry can get up to three procs of her passive for a good amount of additional damage.

Depending on who you are paired up with and who you are fighting, you can instagib the enemy carry. She is also good for getting runners due to the long range on her ult.

Yeah, but if she was roaming and leaving bot to hang, her problem was bigger than just her skill at Leona

 

[FoxSpirit]

It's important to note that other than, "Buy Wards" and "Find a build other than the Recommended Items", the best information on league is a moving target.

If you're looking to have an OP that's useful in the way you imply, someone's going to have to step up to the plate and take on the responsibility of keeping it up to date, adding new champions, guides, ect.

Not a simple task.

Hmmm, guides in what form??
Also, good beginner advice is zoning and initiating. Also "don't ever start a 3v5 unless you are really really fed."
People sometimes seem to think they have to fight just because the enemy team is in front of them.
Also, "close to level 10, the first tower doesn't really offer any protection anymore."

Those would improve games so much.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

I guess I need to buy some champs to play ranked. Time to get all the 450 and 1350 IP champs.

 

[garath]

Some links to champion build guides would be helpful. Just general links to:

lolpro.com and
solomid.net

is a great start for someone learning a champion.

 

[MultiCore]

Hmmm, guides in what form??
Also, good beginner advice is zoning and initiating. Also "don't ever start a 3v5 unless you are really really fed."
People sometimes seem to think they have to fight just because the enemy team is in front of them.
Also, "close to level 10, the first tower doesn't really offer any protection anymore."

Those would improve games so much.

Even though every build may not be optimal, champion-specific guides on sites like mobafire offer a lot of good info for people looking to pick up a new champ, whom may only have a vague idea on where to begin.

Obviously these vary in quality, and solomid obviously has some guides from top-tier players, but since the game changes so fast, things like a Chaox guide for an ADC where's he's pushing wriggles, or double dorans, when those may now be more situational instead of a no-brainer, need to be watched for current applicability.

We really need the ability to collaborate on OT OP's. :/

 

[brian!]

if we are to talk builds and trends
we need to explain the theory behind the builds and trends, and what makes them popular and what makes them perceived as optimal

like, it would be really beneficial to counter a sheep mentality

which is why I always advise newer players to forgo really straightfoward advice; I mean, in my opinion, you get much more out of just diving into games, copying what is working, trying to understand why these things work, and coming up with better solutions that meet the goal of the role you are trying to fulfill

the difference say in running a carry jungler vs. a supportish jungler, the difference in Bot ADs lane phases and why they tend to build IE/PD, get early dorans or get a vamp scepter or run flash ignite

like, you can tell a new player to ward, and which places to ward, but that doesn't mean they are conditioned to watch the minimap or are aware that they are more safe if the enemy jungler has appeared somewhere far away from them.

it should be re-iterated that champion builds tend to vary situationally, but you will never understand what is a good situation to build a particular item if you don't know the roles of each item.

Edit: when southern was making the previous OT he had a google document that everyone could contribute towards

Also if we are to describe the meta, it would be good to emphasize it's position in a specific time frame, that it is something subject to change. For example, lane swapping is pretty common now, but we are not in a place where you will queue up and people will understand the nuances of it; the current meta is sometimes misunderstood to be one of assigned laning rather than the assigning of roles and of optimization (jungle is free untapped gold, 0 cs supports are effective, solo lanes are able to handle a solo lane, etc.)

 

[garath]

If we're talking a lot about better ways to introduce new people to the game, we should really stay away from things like "the meta" and current trends in item builds, etc etc. Remember new players have to go from level 1 to 30 and you won't even see anything more than a hint of "the meta" before level 15 or so. What new players need is mechanics and learning the champions. Then they need to learn things like runes and roles.

Mechanics are introduced pretty well through the actual league of legends site. We could also have some youtube videos that really introduce the game. I remember watching a bunch of real helpful ones. It should also cover things like the shop, last hitting, etc. Warding in the low levels really isn't necessary with all that's going on.

The champions are best learned through research. Lolpro, solomid, youtube, streams, etc.

Since a new person is going to be focused completely on the free champs of the week, they'll have to learn new ones all the time. I remember having sheets of paper with sample builds and where each item was located in the store.

Another thing that could be helpful is a list of some good starting champions that are cheap and will serve you well into later life. I remember buying Vayne with rp full price as my first champion. I can't say I really REGRET it, but it defintely wasn't the best idea.

Ashe
Alistar
Garen
Ryze
etc

 

[Blizzard]

I think Shaco and Vayne may have been two of my first few champions. It didn't work out quite as well as I had hoped.

 

[brian!]

right I agree with some of that, like practicing mechanics is not something you can read about and obtain

but people are going to ask questions like what items should I build? or what lane should I be in? and they are going to get convoluted or matter of fact answers that don't make sense to them or oversimplify things

but yeah if newer players get aggressed by all this information about the "meta" when it isn't terribly relevant to them...

however, guides only work when you have at least an ok handle on how the game works.

I mean we are like conjecturing that there will be this imaginary host of newer players coming into this thread, when even after OT2 it has been mostly the same people

really the only helpful thing I can offer beyond talking theory with people more on my level is to keep saying that things will become clearer the more you play, and to take all advice with a grain of salt

 

[SouthernDragon]

Looks like I'm doing it. Give me a little while, I have to drive to the hospital, but once I'm there I'll sit down and do this. I'll start a Google Doc.

The only improvement I could suggest over the current OT is a list of regular LoL GAF and their corresponding summoner name.

A list is definitely a good idea. I'll use the "Who Posted?" list as a base.

I would be willing to compile a list of more up to date and quality guides for you.

Thank you very much! Could they be general gameplay guides? I think champ specific ones will go out of date fast.

No I think the OT needs to be reworked to be more beginner friendly. The world championships are soon and thatd bring in a few new players.

New players in the thread are often asking for tips. So perhaps the current OT is a bit lacking.

and also reserve a post for season 3 information

Yeah, I have to include the championship info to make it timely. And an expanded "General LoL-GAF tips" section would be nice, too. Could you compile the championship info?

Perhaps. Maybe some explanation of the lanes and some other general tips (e.g., bigger focus on what you do in lane, last hitting, etc.) could be useful as well, though probably not a first post sort of thing. So basically a repeat of the tips post anyway just with more.

It's important to note that other than, "Buy Wards" and "Find a build other than the Recommended Items", the best information on league is a moving target.

If you're looking to have an OP that's useful in the way you imply, someone's going to have to step up to the plate and take on the responsibility of keeping it up to date, adding new champions, guides, ect.

Not a simple task.

I would actually advise against this. The amount of people that look or use the OT diminishes greatly as time goes on. I'll also be quite busy, honestly. I have time for the OT now, but to continuously update it... information is often disseminated as the thread is kept current anyways.

Overall look of OT is pretty solid, but I think the learning center could be highlighted better, since it's a good source of info. Could also be paired with the LoL- wiki, should someone want to look for something specific. Also could use some follow-up sections for those interested on reading more advanced/selective stuff, such as this or that.

Thank you for these resources!

 

[scy]

I think Shaco and Vayne may have been two of my first few champions. It didn't work out quite as well as I had hoped.

I bought Vlad when he was on sale and then Riven the next day. As far as starting champs are concerned, I think I hit it pretty damn good.

 

[Flare]

How did this thread hit 20000 so fast... LoL GAF more active now?

 

[kayos90]

LOL. Where the hell is OT3?

 

[Merovin]

The only improvement I could suggest over the current OT is a list of regular LoL GAF and their corresponding summoner name.

I like this suggestion, it would also be nice to have a break down of who's on each server etc...

 

[kiunchbb]

I don't think meta matters at level 1 - 15 for new players, just tell them to find and focus on 2 or 3 champ (free or cheap), grab a build guide, follow the build and go. I don't think people will enjoy spending hours reading guides just to try a game.

If they enjoy what they are doing they will start looking for guides so they can win more often, only thing we need to provide them is easy access to information (gaf chat, OT3, solomid.net).

They will slowly learn the rest by asking question in gaf chat/OT3, reading guides, etc. I don't really mind new player asking basic or stupid question in thread, it give us different stuff to talk about, and show how friendly we(1 or 2 of us) are. It is not like we have anything meaningful to discuss in the thread (ghost on ashe).

We can list people that willing to volunteer to train newbie and stuff.

edit: oh a lot of people mentioned this already, forgot to refresh and read the thread before posting. -.-

 

[garath]

I bought Vlad when he was on sale and then Riven the next day. As far as starting champs are concerned, I think I hit it pretty damn good.

Haha. That's like the jackpot of starting champs. Especially Riven. She's a pub stomp early.

 

[dimb]

I guess I need to buy some champs to play ranked. Time to get all the 450 and 1350 IP champs.

One of the biggest mistakes often made regarding ranked is that people rush into it. Honestly you can learn just as much in normals. Simply filling your roster out with champions you don't click with won't help anyone. While there are a number of lower IP cost champions I would strongly recommend everyone owns you aren't really missing out on much by skipping over champs like Sion, Teemo, Nasus, etc.

 

[Ferrio]

One of the biggest mistakes often made regarding ranked is that people rush into it. Honestly you can learn just as much in normals. Simply filling your roster out with champions you don't click with won't help anyone. While there are a number of lower IP cost champions I would strongly recommend everyone owns you aren't really missing out on much by skipping over champs like Sion, Teemo, Nasus, etc.

Truth. You'll learn a lot more about the game running 5 man normals with GAF than ranked. Ranked you're going to have to wade through a lot of crap (while winning) until you start playing with people that are worth a damn. Join a 5 man normal with gaf, you'll certainly be placed against another team that knows what they're doing.

 

[Blizzard]

Truth. You'll learn a lot more about the game running 5 man normals with GAF than ranked. Ranked you're going to have to wade through a lot of crap (while winning) until you start playing with people that are worth a damn. Join a 5 man normal with gaf, you'll certainly be placed against another team that knows what they're doing.

By doing this, one can learn much about life, pain, chat rage, and loss.

Sometimes wins too, sure.

 

[scy]

I need to do more games with GAF that aren't just playing top lane (and/or start practicing some top laners I haven't played in awhile). I keep just playing the same champ over and over :|

Haha. That's like the jackpot of starting champs. Especially Riven. She's a pub stomp early.

I think of my Riven as fairly decent by now. She's my go-to champ if I get stuck in a losing streak or something since I rarely do bad with her.

 

[zkylon]

I think of my Riven as fairly decent by now. She's my go-to champ if I get stuck in a losing streak or something since I rarely do bad with her.

Wish I could say the same

I did a couple good purchases to reach the 16 needed to play Ranked: Janna and Morgana. Actually, I think I have a kinda solid roster: Ahri, Akali, Alistair, Annie, Ashe, Graves, Janna, Jax, Kayle, Lux, Malph, Morg, Nunu, Riven, Sona and Tristana. If I could only play well with half of them... (I don't think I've ever really used Ali, Jax or Tristana)

 

[LCGeek]

I need to do more games with GAF that aren't just playing top lane (and/or start practicing some top laners I haven't played in awhile). I keep just playing the same champ over and over :|

Try other stuff you know with me and a few others we can carry while you get use to it. Beats random pubbers and the bitching they tend to shoot at you for trying things out of the norm. I've had my fun with experimenting and tend to use dominion for that now I just troll wins and rack ip for buying things.

 

[scy]

Wish I could say the same

Turning ganks around with Riven is so satisfying. Jungler and top diving? np, double kill.

Seriously though, she harasses really well and her E lets you make all trades basically free (or mitigates the damage taken tremendously). E, auto, W, Q away is free damage. Her R steroid is significant (and the range boost helps) and you can catch them off-guard by E canceling the animation. The damage her execute does is just obscene as well and it's hard to miss it outside of a damned good Flash.

Riven is very much a champion that can safely aggressively harass and can push out fast damage. As long as you properly use her passive (E -> Auto, W -> Auto, Q -> Auto, etc. for when you're going for the kill, not EWQ, autoautoauto), she's just really solid during laning phase.

She desperately needs gold, though. Getting zoned out from cs or not getting any kills will really hurt her.

Try other stuff you know with me and a few others we can carry while you get use to it. Beats random pubbers and the bitching they tend to shoot at you for trying things out of the norm. I've had my fun with experimenting and tend to use dominion for that now I just troll wins and rack ip for buying things.

Yeah, I've been meaning to but I kept just, "Oh, yeah, I got top Rengar" over and over. Next few games, I'll probably work on my Vlad or Sivir or something.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Mods and others, please be patient for OT3. I'll be working on it soon enough, likely later on tonight. I have errands to run. :<

 

[zkylon]

Turning ganks around with Riven is so satisfying. Jungler and top diving? np, double kill.

Seriously though, she harasses really well and her E lets you make all trades basically free (or mitigates the damage taken tremendously). E, auto, W, Q away is free damage. Her R steroid is significant (and the range boost helps) and you can catch them off-guard by E canceling the animation. The damage her execute does is just obscene as well and it's hard to miss it outside of a damned good Flash.

Riven is very much a champion that can safely aggressively harass and can push out fast damage. As long as you properly use her passive (E -> Auto, W -> Auto, Q -> Auto, etc. for when you're going for the kill, not EWQ, autoautoauto), she's just really solid during laning phase.

She desperately needs gold, though. Getting zoned out from cs or not getting any kills will really hurt her.

I get the feeling there's something I'm missing, or maybe I got just plain bad luck with bad matchups (I'm not that used to playing top as I am mid or bot, so I may run into champions I'm not familiar with, like Rumble), but so far I've never been able to effectively pull off her harass.

 

[Q8D3vil]

i've been rocking jayce the last 2 days and i gotta say the fix to his AA is perfect and made last hitting so much easier.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

I like Riven because you can pull off some serious clutch wins with her due to the nature of her abilities.

She kind of reminds me of Renekton. I guess I just tend to like mobile AD casters.

i've been rocking jayce the last 2 days and i gotta say the fix to his AA is perfect and made last hitting so much easier.

I've only played Jayce a few times but he seems like a much better Nidalee. He has the poke, tankiness, speed, and damage, all he's missing is the heal. That's kind of why I want to see a Nidalee rework like they did with Katarina and Garen.

 

[scy]

I get the feeling there's something I'm missing, or maybe I got just plain bad luck with bad matchups (I'm not that used to playing top as I am mid or bot, so I may run into champions I'm not familiar with, like Rumble), but so far I've never been able to effectively pull off her harass.

I guess it comes down to where are you positioned when csing? I try to keep myself around max E range so I can E, auto, W before they can react. Always be ready to dash in for this when a minion gets low. Q first means you can always QQQ away if things go bad. W second if you want to be aggressive or E second if you need to play the lane safe at level 2 and then R>W>E>Q otherwise. I generally prefer QW start since some level 1 harass into a surprise "I just hit level 2" burst combo on them + Ignite tends to score the first blood.

This is also why I run 19/11 to get the -2 damage from Indomitable; these trades will end up with a few minion hits and I play aggressive at the start so I might as well just expect it.

i've been rocking jayce the last 2 days and i gotta say the fix to his AA is perfect and made last hitting so much easier.

I played a lot of (Dominion) Jayce and it always seemed weird to me that he wasn't more used in streams and such. He has good top lane harass, good poke, and engage/disengages really well for the lane. He's a little squishy for a top laner but his mobility and disengage makes up for it.

 

[Blizzard]

If Riven gets behind or makes one wrong engage, I feel some top lane enemies can really harass or outdamage her. I suppose that comes back to the comment about her really needing gold.

I hope they don't remake Nidalee in a weird way, kind of like Katarina's new playstyle, or Eve-without-close-range-stealth. I don't mind the Garen rework though.

 

[Q8D3vil]

starting a game with jungle lux in rank.
i hope this fucker get banned after this game.

 

[LCGeek]

Yeah, I've been meaning to but I kept just, "Oh, yeah, I got top Rengar" over and over. Next few games, I'll probably work on my Vlad or Sivir or something.

I can always use a lee sin with a sharp edge.

 

[zkylon]

I guess it comes down to where are you positioned when csing? I try to keep myself around max E range so I can E, auto, W before they can react. Always be ready to dash in for this when a minion gets low. Q first means you can always QQQ away if things go bad. W second if you want to be aggressive or E second if you need to play the lane safe at level 2 and then R>W>E>Q otherwise. I generally prefer QW start since some level 1 harass into a surprise "I just hit level 2" burst combo on them + Ignite tends to score the first blood.

This is also why I run 19/11 to get the -2 damage from Indomitable; these trades will end up with a few minion hits and I play aggressive at the start so I might as well just expect it.

Got to have more practice, too. I may have played her like 4 times tops...

starting a game with jungle lux in rank.
i hope this fucker get banned after this game.

I once ran into a jungle Lux back on level 20 and she destroyed us, but yeah, I don't get it either

 

[Ken]

/end OT

 

[EXGN]

Tried the AP Eve build that's going around, pretty freakin' ridiculous. I could do something like 80 percent of a target's total health with a DFG+Ult combo.

Unfortunately, our Yi went Rambo and would try to dive Caitlyn even though I could one shot her. I'd circle around to the back of the group to ult her but then he would dive in and die in two seconds, every fight was essentially 4v5.

 

[Q8D3vil]

is it wrong to wish for someone to die after a game ?

 

[Blizzard]

starting a game with jungle lux in rank.
i hope this fucker get banned after this game.

Let us know how the game went for them. *edit* Yes, that's an overreaction. It sounds like their jungle plan didn't go well, but it's just a game.

Also I hope I get to try another AP Eve game before it gets nerfed or something. Her ult was on a ridiculous cooldown before, like 3 minutes, I thought. It feels nearly impossible to get mid lane currently since someone else always locks in, or else you sit through 5-10 minutes of draft with people dodging (and/or taking mid anyway).

Anyway, the Lux fanart is adorable so we can all be happy. ^.^

 

[zkylon]

/end OT

I <3 you

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

is it wrong to wish for someone to die after a game ?

Yes, it is.

Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, suffering leads to low ELO.

 

[scy]

I can always use a lee sin with a sharp edge.

I'll be honest, I'm legitimately shocked that I landed every Q I threw.

Got to have more practice, too. I may have played her like 4 times tops...

That too. I think I've got ~100 Riven games by now. She's easy to pick up but she has a pretty good ceiling just due to her whole auto-attack weaving and some small kiting you can do (e.g., buying time on dives by kiting around, jousting with her +75 auto-attack range from her ult).

/end OT

Thread over.

 

[Dobkeratops]

Hey, I kept all of the composition assets for the thread so if you guys want to have a modified version for OT3 or even something new just let me know.

 

[Q8D3vil]

we won the game because i was support blitzcrank and my ad ezrael was really good so we owned botlane even though mid and top were little behind but the jungle lux was terrible in every way possible, she was stealing farm from lanes because she couldnt farm in the jungle.

in the end it turned out that he is 12 year old who follow phantom lord stream, i guess its easier to follow wanna be clown pro if you cant follow the real ones.

 

[wonderdung]

Saw Scarra at lunch today with some Rioters, didn't recognize anyone else with them. Apparently my Tuesday spot is also popular with Riot as it's the same place I saw Nikasaur one time. Anyway I expect more Katarina changes now!

 

[Blizzard]

Saw Scarra at lunch today with some Rioters, didn't recognize anyone else with them. Apparently my Tuesday spot is also popular with Riot as it's the same place I saw Nikasaur one time. Anyway I expect more Katarina changes now!

Why do you say this? Changes why/in what direction?

 

[SouthernDragon]

Hey, I kept all of the composition assets for the thread so if you guys want to have a modified version for OT3 or even something new just let me know.

DUDE, YES

I had forgotten your GAF username, thank god you posted.

 

[JesseZao]

Why do you say this? Changes why/in what direction?

Scarra was the? top kat player before the changes. Since he hasn't been streaming I wonder how he likes new kat.

 

[Blizzard]

Scarra was the? top kat player before the changes. Since he hasn't been streaming I wonder how he likes new kat.

Oh I guess I missed that he was eating lunch WITH the Rioters, and therefore they might be changing Katarina based on what he suggests. Thanks.

If I recall correctly someone said his opinion was that new Kat has even worse/more awkward early game and farming, but better late game. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

 

[scy]

Well, I think Tiensi's recent thoughts on Katarina are that she's overall worse. Don't think scarra's said anything new since shortly after her update. Both of them basically say she has a worse early-to-mid game, improved late game (+ better farm), easier to get counterpicked.