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- Thread starter SouthernDragon
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The problem with Veigar is that he can one combo ko either one of us so he must die first
The other problem was grave, since he kept spamming his smoke on me, i can't target it on him, so i just try to kill whoever i see (bad playing right there
)We gots teh worst luck with our teammates. Why you would pick a squishy ass mage after you see the other team go AP Sion is beyond me.
ElectraStar
Junior Member
Just finished watching that last TSM vs SK game.
Hoooly shit @ Sion's farm. I think it's the first time I've seen someone pull off the 100-minions-per-10 rule.
Hoooly shit @ Sion's farm. I think it's the first time I've seen someone pull off the 100-minions-per-10 rule.
I feel like Sion is one of the few who can do this easily if he's laning against someone who ignores him and doesn't have the power to burst his shield, since it literally clears entire waves at a certain point. (I'm assuming he was AP sion?)
I still don't quite understand the concept of not getting it broken though. Does it actually get stronger the closer it is to exploding, and when it is first turned on, it does not match the tooltip description of its strength? What is the minimum damage it can take? Certain champions seem to be able to pop it in one or two hits at low levels, with very rapid moves.
the shield scales with AP, armor, and magic resist
What? According to http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sion_the_Undead_Champion it only scales with AP.And I understand how it scales with AP, I just meant does it burst more easily when you just start the animation versus when it's been running and is solid white, or does it take the same amount of damage either way? Does it do more damage if you let it charge longer? That sort of thing. I don't remember either the tooltips or the wikia move summary describing this.
If it does the same amount of damage and absorbs the same amount of damage regardless of charge time, then certain champions will in fact pop it easily at early levels. I just wasn't sure if I was missing some key mechanic.
Not sure how Regi started it, but a lot of AP Sions level the shield over everything else (including the ult) so by only a few levels + Doran's rings + masteries + runes, you have a shield that can take upward of 300 damage. It's tough to break that as an AP mage without blowing your CDs (and that's just to pop a shield).
Plus, if you're trying to harass the shield, that means you're in range for the stun. AP mages can't afford to eat that stun + shield combo.
Sure, you can probably burst it if a Sion stands right in front of you, activates shield, and does nothing else within the cooldown. Sion will normally activate the shield from a distance and then activate blast once cooldown is done. Plus, his stun usually guarantees he gets blast off.
davidpdong
Member
You gain the full shield upon cast.
The idea is you cast it while out of range and wait till the 3,2,1 to start and rush in to the middle of the wave to get all your sweet CS.
You max shield first and get 1pt of e at lvl 2 and 1 pt of ult at lvl 6, and then ignore those 2 until last.
EDIT - BEATEN! we got a sion in here!
The idea is you cast it while out of range and wait till the 3,2,1 to start and rush in to the middle of the wave to get all your sweet CS.
You max shield first and get 1pt of e at lvl 2 and 1 pt of ult at lvl 6, and then ignore those 2 until last.
EDIT - BEATEN! we got a sion in here!
Yep, this is what I would try to do to farm minions. I liked trying to do it and maxing the shield first, and building AP so the shield gets stronger, but certain champions would seem to use a cooldown or two to cancel it if I went into farm, using a gap closer so they would be out of range for the stun. The thing is that if the shield does get broken in that fashion, Sion loses all of the farm unless the wave survives until the next cooldown, he is down 110 mana, and he loses nearly all of his damage unless he ults and autoattacks someone.
Of course the counterargument might be, if someone bursts the shield then they will themselves lose the farm for that minion wave. I suppose the key thing is to find a lane where someone will just focus on their own minions and let you farm waves.
I didn't know that the shield damage would be less the more damage someone has done to your shield but I suppose that makes sense. I did know about the 4 second explodey rule and I try to do that.
davidpdong
Member
the situation you described just had someone blow 3 spells to cancel your one shield, that comes back in like 5 sec.
Damage done to shield is calculated after armor and magic resist is taken into consideration.
So more armor and magic resist, the more damage your shield can take.
The shield cooldown is 8 seconds, and according to wikia it's 8 seconds after it expires, so if you're charging it, it will really be more like 12-14 seconds.
The second thing is that I could have sworn I have seen some champions eat it with one ability (maybe galio's Q, maybe nunu's snowball). I could be completely wrong on that. The third thing is that I had trouble with Irelia, who can use a move or two for a total of say, 70-100 mana, while sion using shield + stun will take 200+ mana (near 100 alone for the shield).
I might have tried two dorans rings on him before since I always ran into mana problems if I tried to use the stun.
In summary, I want to try him again with AP and focus on farming, and I will try to report back if I have trouble with the shield getting broken. AP Sion does seem risky due to such a huge part of his damage depending on the shield, especially now that I have learned its damage gets reduced on taking damage.
Oh right, I guess I think of that as Sion himself scaling rather than the shield specifically scaling.
Thanks for the tips everyone. I tried to play AP Sion (usually mid) in a bunch of ranked games and maybe I will give it a try again. It sounds like learning Kennen, Vlad, or Morgana might be better choices these days, however.
SouthernDragon
Member
How is Vlad hard to play?
ElectraStar
Junior Member
He doesn't enter god-mode until late game, unless you really know what you're doing and eat everyone alive. Nowadays I feel like most AP mids beat him either because they outburst him, outrange him, or out-CC him. I've been told he's a good top (because of sustain and because he can stay away from most melees), but I have yet to try it.
I've been meaning to try it since the buff, but I haven't had the chance yet.
Silly Achtius, you can't (usually?) hear champions if they're hiding in bushes!
Jazzy Network
Member
Vlad isn't hard to play but he could be tough to play effectively. Ill have some easy games with him and Ill have some hard ones.
So final verdict on sej:
-She needs some reduced cooldowns, much like leona got eventually.
-Something added to her on-hit passive. It's very redundant right now since two of her skills apply the ability already. I'd suggest some low damage dot. It'd help her in the jungle more, and give her just a wee bit more damage.
After the first initiation she's just a warm body that can't do anything, other than smack people for piddly damage.
-She needs some reduced cooldowns, much like leona got eventually.
-Something added to her on-hit passive. It's very redundant right now since two of her skills apply the ability already. I'd suggest some low damage dot. It'd help her in the jungle more, and give her just a wee bit more damage.
After the first initiation she's just a warm body that can't do anything, other than smack people for piddly damage.
Sion's AP ratios were recently nerfed (0.1), but he's still a very strong mid champion. If you get confident with him, you can start to roam more and gank the other lanes. He ganks are very strong with mobility boots because he comes into the lane with a fully charged shield and a stun. During the laning phase people rarely stack MR (aside from Merc's).
I also think that her stats need to be better. Right now, while it's fine that she's a dedicated Jungler, she's exceptionally weak early jungle. Her stats make her somewhat difficult to play until post level 6 where her entire kit can be used. Other than that, it's an excellent champ.
Think Kennan, but easier. He has always been one of the easiest laners in the game. Only needs two stats(HP/AP, both improve the other, both increase defense and offensive), though cooldown reduction is a plus. No mana costs, and the pool is a pure get out of jail free card.
It will take a few games to get the timing down, but you have to suck to do bad as Vlad.
What stats? Her base ones? They really don't stand out as being bad, yet she takes so much damage.
Yeah, I mean her base stats.
The pool is even more free due to the recent buff.
SouthernDragon
Member
Oh you guys!
And that match was epic. Yes, I watched it.
Veigar would insta-melt at least one champion and rip off 1/4th of off everyone elses. There were like 4 or 5 GAs at the end game, everyone just kept resurrecting. I saw a teamfight in the bush near dragon where Sejuani tried to initiate and got promptly destroyed.
If Veigar hadn't wandered off at the end, I honestly don't know what would have happened. Veigar farms enough to insta-gib 5 champions with his Dark Matter?
And that match was epic. Yes, I watched it.
Veigar would insta-melt at least one champion and rip off 1/4th of off everyone elses. There were like 4 or 5 GAs at the end game, everyone just kept resurrecting. I saw a teamfight in the bush near dragon where Sejuani tried to initiate and got promptly destroyed.
If Veigar hadn't wandered off at the end, I honestly don't know what would have happened. Veigar farms enough to insta-gib 5 champions with his Dark Matter?
I have learned this lesson like, twice as riven.
I think I won at least one of those games but it depends on the rest of your team + jungler doing well enough to balance out the gangplank farm. Gangplank and cho shut me down the most with riven in recent memory.I have learned this lesson like, twice as riven.
I have quints armor for that situation. But ya I hate that one.
Ya I felt really worthless as her toward the end. Her skills didn't really help much when the teams were so farmed at that point. Even with like 70% damage mitigation, tabi boots, frozen heart, randuins AND almost 4k health... I was just melting.
ElectraStar
Junior Member
Achtius: Speaking of the Pentakill Sona skin sucking, CRS's got one!
edit: That game was fast!
Agreed. Also, do you play on the NA server?
edit: That game was fast!
This article takes an extensive look at base stats on her and similar champions: http://www.rog.clgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/5229-overview-sejuani-part-1
She scores fairly low across the board.
I'm looking more at the long term stat anaylsis over level 1-18. She has the lowest HP, low health regen, low attack damage, and pitiful attack speed. Unlike many of the other champions on that list she also has no shields, or built in boosters to her tankiness.
They don't take into account Anumu's cuteness factor. Like Teemo, it instantly draws in opponents to attack it.
That list is wrong!
When I first saw the spotlight and saw the kit actually in action I thought she would be amazing. Of course I know Spotlight is not how it happens, it's just advertising stuff, but her kit looked really useful. It's odd that her stats are a bit lower than average earlier and scales sort of bad towards end game. It also means that she's very item dependent and since her jungle is weak in the beginning it also carries and snowballs into mid and late game.
ElectraStar
Junior Member
But her boar take like 50% of the screen, so attacking anyone but her is hard
^
The Funny thing, is at the start we all decided it would be an experimental/troll match,
and it turned out to be a good game.
No one in our chat room raged,
we were just playing for fun, having a good time.
We need more of those.
I had this problem last night, it's like giant cho but with the added frost effects circling her. Focus veigar! WHERE IS VEIGAR I CAN'T SEE PAST THE BOARBut her boar take like 50% of the screen, so attacking anyone but her is hard
(blind didn't help either, screw you graves)
Sivir and Taric are decent, but we had Eve jungle Morde mid, and Jax when I have no clue what I'm doing. I claim our champions were way trollier than yours. =P
slidewinder
Banned
The shield's explosion damage is not reduced by taking damage. As long as it has 1 hp of absorption left and actually explodes, either by timing out or you triggering it, it will do as damage an amount equal to whatever absorption it started with. You just have to make sure that it explodes; if it is destroyed by taking more damage than its capacity, then it doesn't do any damage (obviously).
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