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League of Legends |OT8| Goodbye, Promos.

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C

Crab Milk Mickey

Member
clemenx said:
He'll get nerfed so hard.

It is really a perfect storm for WW this patch. The skirmishers + devourer and having unparalled sustain wheras everyother jungler is struggling.

He's always been annoying and was safe pick when I wasn't comfortable with jungle.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say "every other jungler" is struggling sustain-wise. I've been staying consistently healthy (read: in between 85% and near 100%) as Udyr, Trundle, Nunu and Cho'gath with their first clear not harming them that much, and they don't even need Ranger's Trailblazer to keep that up. Sion also isn't really phased by the jungle hitting harder and provided her stats remain largely the same, Rek'sai has to go out of her way to lose a significant chunk of her health. There's bound to be more I'm overlooking.

PhillipCostigan said:
The jungle getting nerfed again next patch really has me worried. I legitimately think Riot is making a mistake nerfing the Gift of the Heavy Hands and Ranger's Trailblazer instead of buffing other jungle items. The jungle, while going definitely in the right direction, is still heavily nerfed over what it was last season and nerfing it again will really put the role in a bad spot honestly.
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Ranger's nerf is completely justified. It's overloaded on stats as it is, and the removal of the Smite cooldown reduction won't hurt it. Increasing the number of auto-attacks required for proccing Heavy Hands is a little dubious though, and hopefully reconsidered since it'll hardly influence the stronger junglers.
 
D

drawkcaB

Member
garath said:
I have to believe this was riots intent. Give the laners some early breathing room and time to play unless there are very specific early game junglers out there. Risk vs reward.

I like the direction.
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Same. Once Riot is happy that jungling is as hard as laning (speaking from how often the jungler is in danger, jungling obviously has it's own challenges as well) then they might be more willing to give junglers more gold and XP starting in the mid game. Same risks as laners? Same rewards as laners.

Crab Milk Mikey said:
I wouldn't say "every other jungler" is struggling sustain-wise. I've been staying consistently healthy (read: in between 85% and near 100%) as Udyr, Trundle, Nunu and Cho'gath with their first clear not harming them that much, and they don't even need Ranger's Trailblazer to keep that up. Sion also isn't really phased by the jungle hitting harder and provided her stats remain largely the same, Rek'sai has to go out of her way to lose a significant chunk of her health. There's bound to be more I'm overlooking.
Click to expand...

Xin still sustains like a boss, particularly so if you level Q or W instead of E first (which may be the way to go now that single target damage is stronger for clearing). Once I get two points in Titan's Wrath, Nautilus doesn't lose a shred of hp between camps. The mana regen on upgraded smite gives enough use to W and E every camp. Kinda shocked people are saying he gets killed by the camps in the jungle. He's the only jungle tank I know that can breeze through all 6 camps in the initial clear before backing. Vi is still solid once she has two points in Q and starts annihilating camps while he passive tanks the first few rounds of AAs from the camp. Volibear is fine for reasons I haven't quite grasped yet since he has fuck all for sustain.

Sejuani is kinda ok, but no worse than in S4, honestly. If you bare with it then you can bare with it now. Only jungler I've tried who has a tough time is Maokai. I thought he was absolutely terrible before but I've adjusted my routes since and he's ok for sustain, but anyone who thinks his passive gives him good sustain in the jungle is on drugs.
 
M

Moral Panic

Member
I think the obvious soiluttion to increasing "jungler risk" would have been to increase gold/xp for counterjungling. This makes the game jungler vs jungler wheras now it's jungler vs random luck. If your ganks dont go well or you get set behind early you are pretty much done. You will be lvl 3/4 when the laners are lvl 6 and starting to roam added with the snowball the dragon gives will just write you out of the game.
 
B

Bacon

Member
Voli's passive routinely pops for me on my first clear. He had a slow first clear in season 4 too so it's not surprising.
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
I guess it depends on the player, but I didn't think jungle was a very easy or desirable position, with junglers and supports almost always being the last ones to show up in team builder.

Maybe that's changed a bit with the appeal of a new jungle, but even before the season change I thought jungler was the acceptable scapegoat for problems in most games. If you went jungler, you were the person who could be raged at by all lanes for their own failures.
 
K

Kotetsu534

Member
I'm a bit surprised they've targeted the jungle as a role which was "too easy". It's definitely the role I see weaker/unfamiliar players completely bomb at moreso than others - and that was before they made it much more complicated and unforgiving. It's also the role where you're most likely to have several players blaming you for things going wrong, usually without justification. I hope it doesn't become too unpopular in S5, but I could definitely see a scenario developing where there's a huge performance gap between jungle "mains" and average players, across most ELO brackets, if it stays the way it is (and the OP fringe cases like Warwick and Pantheon get toned down so people can't easily cheese with them).
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
i don't think they meant easy related to players but to champions

like afaik s4 you could like jungle with whoever you felt like it and spirit stone regen and jungle creeps being overall weak would allow you to do fairly ok. so you saw things like karthus or twitch jungle sometimes

but it has nothing to do with decisionmaking and actually the jungler role, just the base requirement to farm it i guess

basically i forgot which rioter was it that said it, but the way they put it is, farming the jungle in s4 had no "lose condition".
 
N

nbraun80

Member
So a little theory crafting here. I've been just trying different people out jungling in customs, figuring if i can do decent on the first run with no leash they would probably be decent in normals where you usually get a leash of some kind. So I tried one of my personal fav. champ Malz. Tried AP like fiddle, but just went horrible, no sustain plus somewhat long cooldowns made it tough. THEN I said screw it and went full ad Malz. Which has been pretty amazing if you use your spawnlings correctly. Basically you want to spawn him at 1:40 so he's fully upgraded and can tank a good amount of damage. The first clear is a tough, but after 3 and trailblazer it goes pretty smoothly. Basically just throw all three spells at them and watch him tank and do decent damage as well as you auto. Repeat at all camps, obviously blue buff helps a lot. I soloed dragon at 10 min. with just trailblazer, tear, and long sword. basically at that point you can blaze through your jungle very fast, taking minimal damage.

On top of that ganks are pretty nice with his ulti too. just walk into the lane spam spells and ulti, and let the other guy do free damage. Make sure you have a spawnling spawned, because they will do a lot of damage while your in your ulti.

Obviously I have no real games to back this up, but it has been pretty fun trying different, abnormal things in the new jungle.
 
M

Mister Negative

Member
nbraun80 said:
So a little theory crafting here. I've been just trying different people out jungling in customs, figuring if i can do decent on the first run with no leash they would probably be decent in normals where you usually get a leash of some kind. So I tried one of my personal fav. champ Malz. Tried AP like fiddle, but just went horrible, no sustain plus somewhat long cooldowns made it tough. THEN I said screw it and went full ad Malz. Which has been pretty amazing if you use your spawnlings correctly. Basically you want to spawn him at 1:40 so he's fully upgraded and can tank a good amount of damage. The first clear is a tough, but after 3 and trailblazer it goes pretty smoothly. Basically just throw all three spells at them and watch him tank and do decent damage as well as you auto. Repeat at all camps, obviously blue buff helps a lot. I soloed dragon at 10 min. with just trailblazer, tear, and long sword. basically at that point you can blaze through your jungle very fast, taking minimal damage.

On top of that ganks are pretty nice with his ulti too. just walk into the lane spam spells and ulti, and let the other guy do free damage. Make sure you have a spawnling spawned, because they will do a lot of damage while your in your ulti.

Obviously I have no real games to back this up, but it has been pretty fun trying different, abnormal things in the new jungle.
Click to expand...

NB3 did a game or two with AD malz in the new jungle and iirc he said it wasn't all that bad. Might be worth trying more.
 
S

Sofo

Member
I am so excited about double IP weekend! I am going to grind it out hell yeaaaaah.

Dobe, I am ready for some loserinos!
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Sofo said:
I am so excited about double IP weekend! I am going to grind it out hell yeaaaaah.

Dobe, I am ready for some loserinos!
Click to expand...

OH SHI IT STARTS TODAY!
Luckily I've got morning and afternoon shifts at work so I can put some hours into them XO
 
M

Musician

Member
Whenever I need cheering up I go into an aram and play champions "wrong". My personal favorite so far is AD Nami. The worst is AD Karthus.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
I once played an ARAM game against a Karthus that spammed his bombs, shit was annoying and irritating. It was KATHOOM every 2 seconds yeesh.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
What else are you supposed to do on Karthus?
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Blizzard said:
That's normal for Karthus because you want to charge your tear of the goddess as fast as possible.
Click to expand...

Which is funny cuz I've not seen many Karthus players spam it that much in the games I played, they mainly predict where you'll be and place it there.
 
KarneeKarnay

KarneeKarnay

Member
I really enjoy the new jungle for two reasons.

1. Jungle is way more interesting and way more important for a team. Killing those crabs, securing the buffs and above all else, timing the Drake spawns are very important.
2. The bad jungles are finally being exposed. We’ve all been there with that Yi who just wants to farm his feral flare for thirty minutes. Not going to fly now, I love seeing good junglers take advantage of this. Just a Naut smiting the new Wraith and killing the crab outside Drake. Now bot lane and mid have vision for almost all of bot side on the jungle. Even with a Rammus the enemy jungler could not make a gank work. Or in my team when we’ve been losing a game, but we have kept taking the Drakes because we had a jungler who was keeps track of it, and then we turn it around.

Unfortunately the same can be said as a negative. If a jungler screws up, then it hurts way more now. In the past it used to be that if the jungler died, it was bad, but aside from some buffs, it wasn’t a huge game changers. Now if he dies, the enemy can really push that advantage and take the creeps that offer a lot.
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
KarneeKarnay said:
I really enjoy the new jungle for two reasons.

1. Jungle is way more interesting and way more important for a team. Killing those crabs, securing the buffs and above all else, timing the Drake spawns are very important.
2. The bad jungles are finally being exposed. We’ve all been there with that Yi who just wants to farm his feral flare for thirty minutes. Not going to fly now, I love seeing good junglers take advantage of this. Just a Naut smiting the new Wraith and killing the crab outside Drake. Now bot lane and mid have vision for almost all of bot side on the jungle. Even with a Rammus the enemy jungler could not make a gank work. Or in my team when we’ve been losing a game, but we have kept taking the Drakes because we had a jungler who was keeps track of it, and then we turn it around.

Unfortunately the same can be said as a negative. If a jungler screws up, then it hurts way more now. In the past it used to be that if the jungler died, it was bad, but aside from some buffs, it wasn’t a huge game changers. Now if he dies, the enemy can really push that advantage and take the creeps that offer a lot.
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Exhaust/smite Yi is in the top 3-4 junglers right now. His weak early game is mitigated now with the new jungle item, and he can duel almost anyone with exhaust. His ganks are now also pretty decent with the slow smite/exhaust as a backup.

Then again I never played the AFK farm Yi style to begin with. I always looked to make an impact.
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
I just want to make Evelynn work. Too bad she needs the regen smite. That does not improve her in the one area she always lacked (endgame scaling.)
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
I don't see how Eve can possibly work in the new jungle. You have to be relevant early but the jungle simply doesn't allow her to do a decent level 3 gank without being basically dead. Itemization sucks balls for her, the lack of the burn on Warrior gimps her really hard, the AP upgrade is poop because AP Eve is useless, she can't really Drag early since the thing will eat her alive, and if you haven't been relevant by the time midgame hits the game is essentially 4v5 and it's not getting any better.

Eve needs like half of the last few nerfs reverted and then buffed some.
 
F

Ferga

Member
I like the new jungle but I think they need to make the first clear a bit less harsh (or first 2 camps).

Sustain junglers shouldn't be dominating the role because of their sustain.

I feel like the game is not going in the right direction when sustain junglers become the meta.

Jungling should be about a balance of sustaining your hp and mana bar while applying pressure. Maybe it's just inexperience talking right now but something doesn't feel right about the the early game jungle at the moment
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
Ferga said:
I like the new jungle but I think they need to make the first clear a bit less harsh (or first 2 camps).

Sustain junglers shouldn't be dominating the role because of their sustain.

I feel like the game is not going in the right direction when sustain junglers become the meta.

Jungling should be about a balance of sustain your hp and mana bar while applying pressure. Maybe it's just inexperience talking right now but something doesn't feel right about the the early game jungle at the moment
Click to expand...
It doesn't feel right because there's basically no early game presence at all. As a laner I don't mind the early safety but if that just ends up meaning that stupid level 6 junglers can just kill me after staying in their little comfort zone since there is little map pressure going around then it's pointless.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
2 out of 3 games I played had our jungler die to a random camp.
I did get the pleasure of seeing a Panth take on the drake as early as Lvl. 2 though!
 
S

Sofo

Member
baconbm said:
So what's the best way to grind for ip during the double ip weekend?
Click to expand...

Not sure where I read it but I think it was suggested ARAM was the fasted IP/EXP? I could be wrong though!

In other news, just bought Blitzcrank and god, that was so much fun. Except hooking once Skarner (which would have been fine if we had chained CC properly, it was right before a dragon) I got some really nice hooks. So much fun haha.

oz70Vu1.png


http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/1846906932/206655443?tab=overview

My contribution to kill is kinda lower than I have with other supports I feel though, maybe I need to just work it better!

Got some nice solo kills when Corki or Katarina would try to take me after a poor team fight or when they were backing and probably tabbed, lol. Was nice.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Personally I dislike Frozen Gauntlet on Blitz, Trinity is better because of its extra movement speed which benefits blitz as well as the Attack speed, plus the sheen passive means bigger damage on his E.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
Tizoc said:
Personally I dislike Frozen Gauntlet on Blitz, Trinity is better because of its extra movement speed which benefits blitz as well as the Attack speed, plus the sheen passive means bigger damage on his E.
Click to expand...
If you're going to build Blitz for damage might as well go full AP.
 
V

V_Arnold

Member
Stone Ocean said:
I don't see how Eve can possibly work in the new jungle. You have to be relevant early but the jungle simply doesn't allow her to do a decent level 3 gank without being basically dead. Itemization sucks balls for her, the lack of the burn on Warrior gimps her really hard, the AP upgrade is poop because AP Eve is useless, she can't really Drag early since the thing will eat her alive, and if you haven't been relevant by the time midgame hits the game is essentially 4v5 and it's not getting any better.

Eve needs like half of the last few nerfs reverted and then buffed some.
Click to expand...

IAS Eve kinda works. Devourer :p
But you are right, you need to rely on ganks for secure money, you cant treat jungle as your real home.
 
S

Sofo

Member
Nl4XTQp.png


Quality community right there.

Not only was he spamming "homos" the entire game, but he had to bring it to that level. Jesus fucking christ.

It was all unwarranted too.

wtf with these people

Pd. felt worse because we had our ADC go AFK because there was some workers at his house -_- I think we could have won it but whatever.
 
N

Nopren

Member
I tried Evelynn jungle in a custom game with only me, just to see how it would work. And holy shit, after taking blue first I needed to back to get more pots. Hit lvl 6 12 minutes in and every camp was only survived with a sliver of hp.
Though I don't have runes or am good at jungling it seems horrible to do it as Eve. Really want to see how a good clear with Eve looks.
 
M

MaxiLive

Member
Sofo said:
Quality community right there.

Not only was he spamming "homos" the entire game, but he had to bring it to that level. Jesus fucking christ.

It was all unwarranted too.

wtf with these people

Pd. felt worse because we had our ADC go AFK because there was some workers at his house -_- I think we could have won it but whatever.
Click to expand...

Seems like you snooped to his level though which is almost just as bad :p
 
C

Crab Milk Mickey

Member
Sofo said:
I am so excited about double IP weekend! I am going to grind it out hell yeaaaaah.

Dobe, I am ready for some loserinos!
Click to expand...
Free IP weekend should've happened a week earlier so I wouldn't have to divide my time with Smash now that's out in Europe.

Ferga said:
I like the new jungle but I think they need to make the first clear a bit less harsh (or first 2 camps).

Sustain junglers shouldn't be dominating the role because of their sustain.

I feel like the game is not going in the right direction when sustain junglers become the meta.

Jungling should be about a balance of sustaining your hp and mana bar while applying pressure. Maybe it's just inexperience talking right now but something doesn't feel right about the the early game jungle at the moment
Click to expand...
Sustain junglers having some importance now is fine, as opposed to them having been entirely redundant before. It's not like they're immediatedly good at everything either; Warwick's clearing speed isn't that high relative to other picks (like say Udyr or Cho) in conjunction with absolutely no lane pressure up until 6 (and even then warding appropriately vs him isn't difficult), Cho'gath isn't a particularly strong dueler, Trundle struggles against early mobility when ganking unlike a Lee Sin, et cetera. I like the increased initial difficulty spike barring the pending nerf to the Krug's Heavy Hands (which'll do more harm than good), and the only thing I'd really want to see changed come next patch is Riot reverting the counter-jungle item back to its original state. Could maybe stand to make them more concerned about mana, though.

baconbm said:
So what's the best way to grind for ip during the double ip weekend?
Click to expand...
Dominion. Especially if you buy a 3-day XP boost from the store to stack on top of that. Last time they had one of those, I earned somewhere in between 30k - 50k IP total.
 
B

Bacon

Member
Crab Milk Mickey said:
Dominion. Especially if you buy a 3-day XP boost from the store to stack on top of that. Last time they had one of those, I earned somewhere in between 30k - 50k IP total.
Click to expand...

Planning on doing ip boost on top of the double ip. Do you play regular dominion games or against bots?
 
S

Sofo

Member
MaxiLive said:
Seems like you snooped to his level though which is almost just as bad :p
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How exactly did I get to his level? As far as I can tell, I wasn't the one yelling HOMOS in caps and NOOBS everytime he died and being all around a toxic piece of shit. Could I spared the comment about dicks? Sure, but if that's my preference, I don't see why I should hide it. Sure some people can say "I love big boobs", well, I love big fucking dicks and no 12 year-old homophobe on League of Legends is gonna stop me from saying that.
 
P

PhillipCostigan

Member
I wonder if Riot really regrets moving the EU LCS to Berlin now. They lost their two biggest casting talents and more could follow. Wonder if Sjokz will continue with Riot or if she'll stay with ESL too.

It was a strange move to begin with considering the esports industry in Cologne.
 
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