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[Burt]

Eh, ADCs all suck until some streamer/pro goes on an epic tear or they get minor buffs that bring them back to people's attention. There have been occasional examples of them being broken OP, but they're few and far between. Generally speaking, it's the most interchangeable role, and there's no reason you can't play any ADC in any game. Except Urgot. He doesn't count.

One day qtpie's gonna be dicking around with Sivir and hit R at just the right time with just the right team comp and by the next week the whole world'll be calling for nerfs.

 

[Newt]

Eh, ADCs all suck until some streamer/pro goes on an epic tear or they get minor buffs that bring them back to people's attention. There have been occasional examples of them being broken OP, but they're few and far between. Generally speaking, it's the most interchangeable role, and there's no reason you can't play any ADC in any game. Except Urgot. He doesn't count.

One day qtpie's gonna be dicking around with Sivir and hit R at just the right time with just the right team comp and by the next week the whole world'll be calling for nerfs.

That's now how it works at all. There's a difference between a champions seeing competitive play and being overpowered. I'm not sure what division you play in, but as the higher you go, other picks have real consequences. Like back when Tristana was broken, Vayne couldn't really be played against her even with two equally skilled players. It didn't have anything to do with Trist being a Vayne counter, it had everything to do with them having similar roles, but Trist having less weaknesses because of lack of balance.

Champions like Twitch and Sivir both see competitive play, and are both balanced.

 

[Edwardo]

Krepo will be on summoning insight this week. Should be out on Wednesday.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

My punishment for complaining about poor support play in Bronze on here yesterday?

Finding out how much worse it can be last night!

Game 1: Team gets to last two picks, and realizes we need a mid. One guy locks in Karma the other guy panics and locks in Kayle. Says he can't play mid so at the start of game they swap and put Karma mid. Game starts and I predict to my team that Kayle will build 0 support items and our lack of vision and burst will cost us the game.

Kayle's first full item is a damage item, does build a sightstone second but by then we are already getting steam rolled. Game is over at 20 minutes.

Game 2: Guy with last pick says he wants jungle. Our first pick takes WW. Last pick seems bummed but doesn't call anything else. When it comes to the people before him they lock in ADC and Mid leaving only support. Last pick guy types some gibberish but says nothing else. When his pick comes up he auto locks Quin. Proceeds to feed all game. Refuses to surrender and just trolls us all in chat.

After that I decided I should probably just play support even more often than I do.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Everything in bronze is poor. I've been there. Everyone sucks. Realise that if you're in bronze you suck too and try to improve yourself. You'll get out in no time.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

My punishment for complaining about poor support play in Bronze on here yesterday?

Finding out how much worse it can be last night!

Game 1: Team gets to last two picks, and realizes we need a mid. One guy locks in Karma the other guy panics and locks in Kayle. Says he can't play mid so at the start of game they swap and put Karma mid. Game starts and I predict to my team that Kayle will build 0 support items and our lack of vision and burst will cost us the game.

Kayle's first full item is a damage item, does build a sightstone second but by then we are already getting steam rolled. Game is over at 20 minutes.

Game 2: Guy with last pick says he wants jungle. Our first pick takes WW. Last pick seems bummed but doesn't call anything else. When it comes to the people before him they lock in ADC and Mid leaving only support. Last pick guy types some gibberish but says nothing else. When his pick comes up he auto locks Quin. Proceeds to feed all game. Refuses to surrender and just trolls us all in chat.

After that I decided I should probably just play support even more often than I do.

I struggle to support well. I think it's a hard role, despite people claiming that it's easy. Well, I guess it's easy to be competent, but it's really hard to be a good support.

Getting out of Bronze/Silver will happen eventually. It takes a while, but you'll get there. Unfortunately there are idiots in every tier. Last night we lost a game because our stupid ADC gave up first blood by spamming laugh in front of their ADC and their whole team just ran forward and killed him about 1:30 into the game. He decided to just feed from there, and then they just steamrolled the bot lane and eventually every lane.

 

[zkylon]

Name champions by their W ability name

got all 123, although the last 4 (evelynn, olaf, xerath and urgot) were by process of elimination so it wasn't perfect

i got 101

i missed a lot that were like "frenzy", "dark frenzy", "battle roar" and stuff because they're all so generic i can't even think of their shitty champions

also cheated on nocturne cos i was fucking sure that

Spoiler

shroud of darkness was akali's w... it has shroud in it ffs...

 

[Jeff-DSA]

I laned (top) against Nocturne last night. It's the first time I've seen that happen. I will admit that I was totally confused at how to handle him and that he just kicked the crap out of me. That ult in lane was insanely powerful combined with his W. He would get on top of me and then I had trouble reacting.

I'm sure it's a janky play at best, but it confused the crap out of me. I wouldn't mind not seeing that ever again.

 

[Sofo]

I think getting the minimum basics of supporting is easy but being a "good" support ends up being hard. Like it's a kind of a cerebral job, and to add to that you have champion mechanics and map awareness as well as objective control.

By far to me the most interesting role and with nice synergy with your team you can make good plays.

Spoiler

Often times you get to do some dookie play, that's fine too!

 

[zkylon]

if you don't like supports in your elo then you play support

like it's bronze, everybody sucks in every role in bronze. that's like the defintion of bronze

 

[Newt]

Support and ADC are the only good roles. All the other roles are stupid and/or boring .

 

[Kotetsu534]

Got a support Vel'Koz who blamed me for losing lane (I was bad, he was worse), then raged and ran around the map randomly firing spells, feeding kills and bought four pairs of mobis. Game was perfectly winnable - enemy carry up 40 cs and 3-4 kills, but our jungler was fed as hell. He had to have his temper tantrum and that was that.

Queued up again and had an intense 49 minute marathon of a game as Maokai jungle. I was last pick and we needed a tank jungler, so I defaulted to the tree. Enemy had a pretty significant advantage early on thanks to Zed winning mid against Talon and he roamed top a lot. They went two dragons up and on the third, when we started a teamfight well, our top laner forgot to TP so we got flanked by Lissandra, lost the fight 2-4 and third dragon. We hung on and I managed to Flash-Smite steal a baron around 35 minutes to get us an advantageous fight. But then we had a hell of a job sieging down their base with Graves, Talon and Sion, before finally breaking through with a reckless dive. Finished 2/7/30, almost identical score to our Janna (one of the best supports I've played with in a long time - game in general was much higher level than usual and there was no rage despite a large deficit).

I felt so weak as Maokai in that game though, despite doing well and farming as best I could. Out of mana often (thanks to removing Spirit Stone I guess) and generally gold starved until we started getting lots of objectives after 30 minutes. Like season 2 but the camps did more damage. Sometimes a team comp just needs a tank, but I hope he's just on the weaker side now because the first 15 minutes were very rough despite no invasion from Jarvan.

 

[drawkcaB]

I hope he's just on the weaker side now because the first 15 minutes were very rough despite no invasion from Jarvan.

As a jungler, yeah he's weaker now. Wasn't that great in S4 either even after his rework. There's some interesting stuff you can do with him though, like his level 2 ganks that are among the best if not the best in the game.

 

[Fuzzery]

My punishment for complaining about poor support play in Bronze on here yesterday?

Finding out how much worse it can be last night!

Game 1: Team gets to last two picks, and realizes we need a mid. One guy locks in Karma the other guy panics and locks in Kayle. Says he can't play mid so at the start of game they swap and put Karma mid. Game starts and I predict to my team that Kayle will build 0 support items and our lack of vision and burst will cost us the game.

Kayle's first full item is a damage item, does build a sightstone second but by then we are already getting steam rolled. Game is over at 20 minutes.

Game 2: Guy with last pick says he wants jungle. Our first pick takes WW. Last pick seems bummed but doesn't call anything else. When it comes to the people before him they lock in ADC and Mid leaving only support. Last pick guy types some gibberish but says nothing else. When his pick comes up he auto locks Quin. Proceeds to feed all game. Refuses to surrender and just trolls us all in chat.

After that I decided I should probably just play support even more often than I do.

Sounds like support kayle wasn't really why you lost that first game.

 

[Edwardo]

Support and ADC are the only good roles. All the other roles are stupid and/or boring .

True, but I love toplane too

 

[Syph Medwes]

Can someone please explain to me when the next season/ranking starts?
I'm level 25, so does that mean even when I hit level 30 I have to wait for a certain date before my placement matches?

 

[garath]

Can someone please explain to me when the next season/ranking starts?
I'm level 25, so does that mean even when I hit level 30 I have to wait for a certain date before my placement matches?

You can jump right into ranked right when you hit 30 (though I wouldn't recommend it) even in pre-season. What will happen when the next season starts (if they do it the same way as last season) is everyone gets a "soft reset" which means you go to unranked but your internal MMR (match making rating) is not completely reset to unranked. It's only shifted toward 1200 (which is around Silver IV) or something. So if you are bronze you'll get a small boost to your internal MMR, if you are gold or above, you lose some. Then everyone does the 10 placement matches again and you'll get placed based on the results of those.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

I struggle to support well. I think it's a hard role, despite people claiming that it's easy. Well, I guess it's easy to be competent, but it's really hard to be a good support.

Getting out of Bronze/Silver will happen eventually. It takes a while, but you'll get there. Unfortunately there are idiots in every tier. Last night we lost a game because our stupid ADC gave up first blood by spamming laugh in front of their ADC and their whole team just ran forward and killed him about 1:30 into the game. He decided to just feed from there, and then they just steamrolled the bot lane and eventually every lane.

I've been Bronze for 3 years, I'm never getting out.

Support is the hardest role other than jungle, and I'm actually pretty good at it. I don't know why I ever bother picking other stuff other than boredom.

Sounds like support kayle wasn't really why you lost that first game.

It wasn't the sole reason. Our jungler sat top and helped dominate that lane, but because of it the enemy bot lane pushed to our bot tower relentlessly and support Kayle did nothing to deter them. Karma vs Vlad mid was never gonna work in our favor. The overall communication problems, lack of vision and lack of awareness lost us that game pretty fast.

 

[Syph Medwes]

You can jump right into ranked right when you hit 30 (though I wouldn't recommend it) even in pre-season. What will happen when the next season starts (if they do it the same way as last season) is everyone gets a "soft reset" which means you go to unranked but your internal MMR (match making rating) is not completely reset to unranked. It's only shifted toward 1200 (which is around Silver IV) or something. So if you are bronze you'll get a small boost to your internal MMR, if you are gold or above, you lose some. Then everyone does the 10 placement matches again and you'll get placed based on the results of those.

Awesome, thank you.
Also why would you recommend against playing ranked right after level 30? (if the answer pertains to something other than skill)

 

[Edwardo]

Can someone please explain to me when the next season/ranking starts?
I'm level 25, so does that mean even when I hit level 30 I have to wait for a certain date before my placement matches?

It should start late January.

 

[Newt]

Awesome, thank you.
Also why would you recommend against playing ranked right after level 30? (if the answer pertains to something other than skill)

I honestly think diving into ranked is fine if you think you're playing consistently well for your level and you at least know how to play ADC/Support/Jungle (don't need to know mid or top usually for ranked). I think the reason some people advise against it is because ranked is a completely different experience than normals. People expect quality out of you, and when they don't get it they can be somewhat... ill mannered.

 

[Kotetsu534]

Oh god, watching through TheOddOne's stream from yesterday and apparently blue side is doing the double golems and dinging level 2 before going to lane again. They miss a couple of melee creeps but it's a big advantage.

 

[Syph Medwes]

Sweet, thanks for the info everyone

 

[Blizzard]

Oh god, watching through TheOddOne's stream from yesterday and apparently blue side is doing the double golems and dinging level 2 before going to lane again. They miss a couple of melee creeps but it's a big advantage.

Leezard has been advocating this as a huge advantage. It potentially puts the jungler behind by a level (unless you start on the opposite side of the map and things respawn soon enough) but presumably it's worth it because it helps bottom lane so much.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Leezard has been advocating this as a huge advantage. It potentially puts the jungler behind by a level (unless you start on the opposite side of the map and things respawn soon enough) but presumably it's worth it because it helps bottom lane so much.

I've started doing it. It's definitely the way to go for now.

 

[Nekofrog]

if anybody tries that crap with me when i'm yi jungle, i'm quitting. double golems is what lets me jungle without a leash from anyone as yi, putting nobody on my team at risk of getting behind

 

[garath]

Awesome, thank you.
Also why would you recommend against playing ranked right after level 30? (if the answer pertains to something other than skill)

I honestly think diving into ranked is fine if you think you're playing consistently well for your level and you at least know how to play ADC/Support/Jungle (don't need to know mid or top usually for ranked). I think the reason some people advise against it is because ranked is a completely different experience than normals. People expect quality out of you, and when they don't get it they can be somewhat... ill mannered.

Yeah. Pretty much what Newt said.

- Skill is a big part. Reaching level 30 is just the tip of the iceberg. I started ranked after ~600 games total give or take and got placed into Silver II. Had I started immediately after hitting 30 I would have been like Wood 3 for sure.

- Runes and champs are a big part of it too. You won't have more than 1-2 rune pages with the amount of IP you will have after level 30 and you will have just the minimum amount of champs to get into ranked if you buy all cheap ones. It's a little bit of a disadvantage. You can offset that by buying some champs with real money though and only spending IP on runes.

- Knowing all the roles is pretty important. That also takes time and practice that you won't get from 1-30. Up until 20 there's barely roles at all. Doesn't leave a lot of time to get comfortable with the "meta".

That said, you can jump right in and brave the waters. All the more power to ya.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

if anybody tries that crap with me when i'm yi jungle, i'm quitting. double golems is what lets me jungle without a leash from anyone as yi, putting nobody on my team at risk of getting behind

Well, you obviously ask. If the jungle isn't down, you just leash and go to lane. If he's cool with it, it's a pretty big boost.

 

[Leezard]

Oh god, watching through TheOddOne's stream from yesterday and apparently blue side is doing the double golems and dinging level 2 before going to lane again. They miss a couple of melee creeps but it's a big advantage.

Leezard has been advocating this as a huge advantage. It potentially puts the jungler behind by a level (unless you start on the opposite side of the map and things respawn soon enough) but presumably it's worth it because it helps bottom lane so much.

Yup, it's completely insane. If you can take Gromp (purple side bot lane) or golems on level 1, you will get a huge advantage over the other bot lane unless they do the same thing.

 

[Sofo]

I've been Bronze for 3 years, I'm never getting out.

Maybe I missunderstood, but imo sounds from your posts that you are on tilt. I'd suggest a small break from the game or just play other game modes/try to have fun with it.

 

[drawkcaB]

Well, you obviously ask. If the jungle isn't down, you just leash and go to lane. If he's cool with it, it's a pretty big boost.

And no doubt this delightful community does exactly that.

Said it yesterday, I'll say it again - do the same for XP as they did for gold in the machete item. Bar laners from the full benefits of the jungle. Riot's belief that the jungler isn't entitled to the jungle is fucking bullshit.

 

[Newt]

Yeah, ranked is awful for everyone. That reminds be of those games yesterday .

 

[Quenk]

Yeah, ranked is awful for everyone. That reminds be of those games yesterday .

Is that your normal Kalista build path? I want to learn how to play her but I haven't looked into popular skill and build orders.

 

[Bacon]

Yeah, ranked is awful for everyone. That reminds be of those games yesterday .

Why were you building randuins on sivir if you don't mind me asking? To stick to people better?

 

[Jeff-DSA]

And no doubt this delightful community does exactly that.

Said it yesterday, I'll say it again - do the same for XP as they did for gold in the machete item. Bar laners from the full benefits of the jungle. Riot's belief that the jungler isn't entitled to the jungle is fucking bullshit.

I'm on board with giving laners a diminished XP/gold reward for farming the jungle unless they have a jungle item or smite. Make it a big trade off to be able to farm jungle.

 

[Newt]

Is that your normal Kalista build path? I want to learn how to play her but I haven't looked into popular skill and build orders.

Yeah, that's a pretty normal build path for me. I go:

Botrk>GB>LW if ahead

Botrk>Shiv>LW if behind


R>Q>E>W

Why Q over E? Better base damages, and more reliable.

Why were you building randuins on sivir if you don't mind me asking? To stick to people better?

Their majority of damage to me was physical, useful for peeling shaco and nasus, and considering how many times I was dying or had potential to die GA would have been useless. As Sivir, you really gotta get close to the action.

 

[Stone Ocean]

if anybody tries that crap with me when i'm yi jungle, i'm quitting. double golems is what lets me jungle without a leash from anyone as yi, putting nobody on my team at risk of getting behind

You're playing Yi, your team is already behind for 10 minutes at least

 

[Newt]

You're playing Yi, your team is already behind for 10 minutes at least

+1

 

[Nekofrog]

You're playing Yi, your team is already behind for 10 minutes at least

maybe you missed the part where yi gets his feral flare with like 30 stacks at first back within the first 10 minutes now and is incredibly strong early game.

i'll forgive you because it's a recent change

 

[Leezard]

if anybody tries that crap with me when i'm yi jungle, i'm quitting. double golems is what lets me jungle without a leash from anyone as yi, putting nobody on my team at risk of getting behind

You can still get a leash from the top laner. The advantage you give to the bot lane is huge.

Of course, if it's a really weak jungler then you can't do it.

 

[cwmartin]

Anyone recommend a Xin Zhao jungle start? He's my favorite jungler to play, but I'm admittedly not great at the game in general.

I usually start gromp>blue>wolves> back to get skirmishers/rangers then to red>gank

I dont know what im doing usually.

 

[Nekofrog]

You can still get a leash from the top laner. The advantage you give to the bot lane is huge.

Of course, if it's a really weak jungler then you can't do it.

if i'm master yi, i'm starting golems no matter what. period dot. immediate smite and I will not take any substantial damage that ever drops me below 75% health in my entire first clear. and this is leashless. no bot lane is taking that away from me. i don't show up in bot lane at level 1 to take all their cs, after all.

i think the trade off of every single laner getting to lane when they want to (hell they can even chase up to the minions before they meet) and fast push to level 2 is worth the bot lane not getting instant level 2. everyone wins in my situation.

 

[drawkcaB]

Try Red(smite once you lost 20% health) - Wolves -Blue(smite). Start W. Should be nearly full health with 1 pot left over. You're level 3 at this point, go gank. Xin's first power spike in the jungle comes at level 3, gotta use it.

 

[Leezard]

if i'm master yi, i'm starting golems no matter what. period dot. immediate smite and I will not take any substantial damage that ever drops me below 75% health in my entire first clear. and this is leashless. no bot lane is taking that away from me. i don't show up in bot lane at level 1 to take all their cs, after all.

i think the trade off of every single laner getting to lane when they want to (hell they can even chase up to the minions before they meet) and fast push to level 2 is worth the bot lane not getting instant level 2. everyone wins in my situation.

In the current state, if the enemy bot lane is getting their jungle camp, you are putting your bot lane at a large disadvantage by not letting them have their camp. Whether this is worth it due to your jungling is another matter. No "fast push to level 2" is fast enough to counter the instant level 2. It's not good enough

I think the strategy will get nerfed so that bot lane can't take that jungle camp and get away with it, but in the current state I think it is a mistake to not let bot lane take the camp. It's quite overpowered. You will most likely be putting your team at a disadvantage if you don't allow it to happen.

That said, I think it's for the best if it gets nerfed and it will probably get nerfed.

 

[Blizzard]

if i'm master yi, i'm starting golems no matter what. period dot. immediate smite and I will not take any substantial damage that ever drops me below 75% health in my entire first clear. and this is leashless. no bot lane is taking that away from me. i don't show up in bot lane at level 1 to take all their cs, after all.

i think the trade off of every single laner getting to lane when they want to (hell they can even chase up to the minions before they meet) and fast push to level 2 is worth the bot lane not getting instant level 2. everyone wins in my situation.

This seems a bit selfish and rude though, especially with the threat of AFK you mentioned. Isn't Leezard diamond, or am I imagining things? It might be a good idea at higher ranks for the jungler to agree to make a personal sacrifice. Teamwork!

 

[Nekofrog]

This seems a bit selfish and rude though, especially with the threat of AFK you mentioned. Isn't Leezard diamond, or am I imagining things? It might be a good idea at higher ranks for the jungler to agree to make a personal sacrifice. Teamwork!

....

it's selfish for a jungler to want his jungle creeps?

you real with this?

edit:

along with the incredibly huge respawn timers of jungle mobs, it's simply unreasonable. idgaf if you're hitting 2 first, you can fast push while they're doing it and be ready to hit 2 on the first creep of the next wave by the time they get down to the lane.

 

[drawkcaB]

More Sejani buffs on PBE! At this rate if there isn't a mild rework of Nautilus I'm going to be exceptionally disappointed.

 

[Leezard]

Isn't Leezard diamond, or am I imagining things? It might be a good idea at higher ranks for the jungler to agree to make a personal sacrifice. Teamwork!

I'm D2 right now, yes.

I think the sacrifice is worth it since the bot lane will gain more advantage of that single camp than the jungler will. Also, the threat of the enemy bot lane getting the camp is real. It's definitely a teamwork thing.

....

it's selfish for a jungler to want his jungle creeps?

you real with this?

Do you not give blue and red buff to your mid/adc to give the team an advantage?

along with the incredibly huge respawn timers of jungle mobs, it's simply unreasonable. idgaf if you're hitting 2 first, you can fast push while they're doing it and be ready to hit 2 on the first creep of the next wave by the time they get down to the lane.

No, you can't actually do that. That's the thing.

 

[Nekofrog]

I'm D2 right now, yes.

I think the sacrifice is worth it since the bot lane will gain more advantage of that single camp than the jungler will. Also, the threat of the enemy bot lane getting the camp is real. It's definitely a teamwork thing.

Do you not give blue and red buff to your mid/adc to give the team an advantage?

buffs aren't given out until later in the game, when the jungler isn't relying on a single camp to get him an entire level.

listen, the jungle is hard right now. really hard. it hits harder, mobs respawn 100% later than last season, and now junglers only get 2 pots to deal with the increased damage output that the mobs do.

if you're taking the golems at level 1 you're not just putting your jungler behind. you're putting midlane and toplane behind because now the jungler has less to work with if he wants to get a gank off because he is missing out on crucial experience.

No, you can't actually do that. That's the thing.

i'd rather put one lane in a deficit than two lanes and a jungler. stay off my creeps and i'll stay off yours. for a while.

 

[Orochinagis]

Sona feels dull now, she cant support, she cant harras properly, need to get used to her changes again