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[vertopci]

I would have played in the tourneys if it wasn't for the mods.

Also, your posts are really fun to read. It's pretty much the embodiment of a stuck up jerk telling people to fuck off if they don't like something, and insulting their intelligence regardless. Likely because that is how they read, regardless of whether or not you mean it that way. If you do mean it that way, then congrats! You're awesome at speaking.

And I love reading the post by you, Twig and co. because never once do you guys try to argue any of my points in a logical manner. All you guys say is "That is stupid" with absolutely no argument to back it up.

Also whether you like to admit it or not, L4D wouldn't have tourneys after the initial wave if it weren't for these mods.

Also you wouldn't have played in any of the tourneys anyways. Do you know why? Because CEVO and the couple other L4D2 tourneys are VANILLA. The only one that isn't is the newegg one. And even then, they used CEVO for L4D which is just tanks every level and no kits outside saferoom. And you didn't participate. So don't lie to me about not playing in the tourneys because of these mods.

Also, I'm fairly certain you have never even tried these mods, so don't talk shit on them before you try them.

 

[vazel]

So, I don't know if it's considered legit, but I faced a team today on the Motel Scavenge map that would lob a bomb into the billboard while still in the safe zone and it would blow all of the gas cans right down to the pool area. Basically spotting them 3 free easy points every round, they didn't turn yellow either, so yea. I hope it doesn't catch on, we still beat them pretty easily, but it's annoying.

Don't worry most people aim wrong. You can also do it in Dead Center scavenge.

 

[Daigoro]

I'd like to play this guy's Survival maps sometime. He's a member of the Black Mesa mod team, and these maps look pretty good:


We should be able to play them in L4D2 if we have addon support installed.

those look nice. id be up for trying some out.

 

[vertopci]

Just won a game, highlight of the day not just because we won but it was so close and fun, and at the end our whole team were like, was that the finale? did we just win...and smiles all around.

I was mashing the 'score' button and updating how many points they needed. Paul really liked you guys he said, and would love to play with us again (Conceptor is a member of the GAF vs group, but he isn't a poster; he met me through zombie mod CS, then vert and co through L4D).

Here's the .dem files, Sanjay: http://redscarlet.paragonsigma.com/L4D/011910vsSF.zip

That log really hurt.

But I did kill you right before, so...

Yup good game indeed

 

[Daigoro]

well, that was a quick visit from twig.

 

[SundaySounds]

Just won a game, highlight of the day not just because we won but it was so close and fun, and at the end our whole team were like, was that the finale? did we just win...and smiles all around.

Yeah, t'was awesome. Is Dr. Paul on GAF?

Poor Jenga got himself Banned for a while though, I think. : /

 

[Red Scarlet]

Dr. P is one of RocketDarkness's real-life friends that is fun to play with. He really loved Sanjay's accent I guess, and had a blast that game. He doesn't post here, no. But neither does Conceptor.

 

[SundaySounds]

Dr. P is one of RocketDarkness's real-life friends that is fun to play with. He really loved Sanjay's accent I guess, and had a blast that game. He doesn't post here, no. But neither does Conceptor.

Marvel's accent is the best.

:3

I was pretty impressed with the good Dr., I wasn't so sure about it going in but he's a pretty cool dude.

 

[Jenga]

Poor Jenga got himself Banned for a while though, I think. : /

Got kicked because according to Vert you'd leave if Panda did.

 

[BuddhaRockstar]

Good game tonight fellas, intense tank showdowns were had by all- minus the part on the first level where our tank needed a boat

 

[SundaySounds]

Good game tonight fellas, intense tank showdowns were had by all- minus the part on the first level where our tank needed a boat

Seriously, I must have missed the part where the infection caused everyone to lose their ability to swim, including the immune people. Tha fuck.

Got kicked because according to Vert you'd leave if Panda did.

Possibly

 

[vertopci]

There's a land bridge next to the boat that tank can use to cross the lake. Only way for tank to cross over.

 

[SundaySounds]

There's a land bridge next to the boat that tank can use to cross the lake. Only way for tank to cross over.

Can survivors cross it? I don't understand.

 

[vertopci]

Can survivors cross it? I don't understand.

Survivors can't reach it. Tank can cross the land bridge then use an infected ladder to climb over the fence. I would have told you before your tank spawn, but we had to find out about it ourselves that very round so I figured I should let you guys figure it out on your own too

 

[marvelharvey]

OK steam aficionados, how do I find the last server I was on? I just found a Japanese CEVO server, but there was no info on the server page and all I could do is 'join steam group' which I've subsequently realised is just the standard Japanese group. So, is there anyway to find the previous server's IP?

In other news: Playing CEVO with pubs is fucking awful >_<

Marvel's accent is the best.

Thanks. This is why I'm never the team co-ordinator, everyone will be listening to 'how I say' not 'what I say'

 

[morningbus]

I swear, next time we're playing, I'm making marvel say aluminum.

 

[notsol337]

And I love reading the post by you, Twig and co. because never once do you guys try to argue any of my points in a logical manner. All you guys say is "That is stupid" with absolutely no argument to back it up.

Also whether you like to admit it or not, L4D wouldn't have tourneys after the initial wave if it weren't for these mods.

Also you wouldn't have played in any of the tourneys anyways. Do you know why? Because CEVO and the couple other L4D2 tourneys are VANILLA. The only one that isn't is the newegg one. And even then, they used CEVO for L4D which is just tanks every level and no kits outside saferoom. And you didn't participate. So don't lie to me about not playing in the tourneys because of these mods.

Also, I'm fairly certain you have never even tried these mods, so don't talk shit on them before you try them.

This won't go anywhere.

Never mind.

Don't know why I bothered.

 

[vertopci]

This won't go anywhere.

Never mind.

Don't know why I bothered.

Gee once again great argument :lol

 

[Remfin]

OK steam aficionados, how do I find the last server I was on? I just found a Japanese CEVO server, but there was no info on the server page and all I could do is 'join steam group' which I've subsequently realised is just the standard Japanese group. So, is there anyway to find the previous server's IP?

dev console->"openserverbrowser"->History should be what you're looking for

 

[marvelharvey]

I swear, next time we're playing, I'm making marvel say aluminum.

Tally ho, chocks away, let's all have a cup of aluminium.

dev console->"openserverbrowser"->History should be what you're looking for

Why thank you kind sir.

 

[vazel]

I've actually been meaning to ask a similar question. Is there a quicker way to join last server played? Having to wait for the serverbrowser to refresh takes too long.

 

[Nabs]

steam has a built in server browser thats real quick. just hit view > servers and it should have a list

(not sure if it works w/ l4d. just tried it w/ tf2)

 

[vultureparade]

First off, why should one team get an advantage? Giving one team an advantage is stupid in every way.

On the flip side of the tank and witch spawns, the second team playing infected also know about the tank and witch spawns allowing them to set up for it. So it evens out more or less.

Also how does it suck that people who want to play in tourneys have to deal with the mods? They are the exact people who want these changes. In fact these changes are tested by them and approved by them.

And if you're going to call these changes terrible back them up with an argument or don't say anything because otherwise you look like someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

The slight advantage is just that, a slight advantage; it isn't going to determine much. It's the way the game is designed and rather unavoidable given how the game is played in rounds. The team going second is always going to have a slight advantage over the team going first. It just seems rather drastic to remove an entire item from the game because of a negligible advantage.

Good point on the tank and witch spawns. Personally, I think survivors benefit from knowing where the tank and witch are a lot more than the infected, but I can see your point that both teams get an advantage.

I like playing in tourneys, and I certainly don't like most of these changes. I don't remember testing or approving any of them.

Why do you like these changes?

My biggest problem with them is that it separates L4D2 into the "tournament crowd" and the "public crowd." I'd like to be able to practice by playing arranged team versus against a wider audience rather than have to play with a select group of people because of some arbitrary game changes that a group decided to make.

My second biggest problem is that a lot of these changes (tank on every map, item removal) mess with the game's core. Teams who explore are sometimes rewarded for that exploration and all those removed items present different strategies.

Tanks are supposed to be rare. If your team blows the tank, that's it. I don't agree that each team should get numerous tank chances. Also, fighting a tank on every map sounds rather boring.

Do you run this mod on your server? I've played similar mods but not this exact one. I'd love to grab a game with you sometime. Maybe you can change my mind.

 

[drkOne]

steam has a built in server browser thats real quick. just hit view > servers and it should have a list

L4D servers don't appear there (at least for me). Not sure why Valve decided to make it like that (even if I can understand why they'd "hide" the in-game server browser).

 

[Plaguefox]

.

 

[Nabs]

L4D servers don't appear there (at least for me). Not sure why Valve decided to make it like that (even if I can understand why they'd "hide" the in-game server browser).

that's too bad. the in-game browser is ugly as shit.

whats weird is you can see what servers your friends are in, even in l4d2.

 

[Panda Bear]

Survivors can't reach it. Tank can cross the land bridge then use an infected ladder to climb over the fence. I would have told you before your tank spawn, but we had to find out about it ourselves that very round so I figured I should let you guys figure it out on your own too

Ahem I found it thank you. One of the few things I contributed to my team that game.

 

[vertopci]

The slight advantage is just that, a slight advantage; it isn't going to determine much. It's the way the game is designed and rather unavoidable given how the game is played in rounds. The team going second is always going to have a slight advantage over the team going first. It just seems rather drastic to remove an entire item from the game because of a negligible advantage.

Good point on the tank and witch spawns. Personally, I think survivors benefit from knowing where the tank and witch are a lot more than the infected, but I can see your point that both teams get an advantage.

I like playing in tourneys, and I certainly don't like most of these changes. I don't remember testing or approving any of them.

Why do you like these changes?

My biggest problem with them is that it separates L4D2 into the "tournament crowd" and the "public crowd." I'd like to be able to practice by playing arranged team versus against a wider audience rather than have to play with a select group of people because of some arbitrary game changes that a group decided to make.

My second biggest problem is that a lot of these changes (tank on every map, item removal) mess with the game's core. Teams who explore are sometimes rewarded for that exploration and all those removed items present different strategies.

Tanks are supposed to be rare. If your team blows the tank, that's it. I don't agree that each team should get numerous tank chances. Also, fighting a tank on every map sounds rather boring.

Do you run this mod on your server? I've played similar mods but not this exact one. I'd love to grab a game with you sometime. Maybe you can change my mind.

Holy shit someone who actually gives their reason! Twig and co could learn from this post :lol

Onto your points now:

It's a slight advantage but I think you would agree that removing as many advantages as possible is the best way to go for tournaments. After all, you are competing to see who the best team is and having as many advantages gone as possible is the only way to be perfectly fair. If both teams are fairly evenly matched, even a slight advantage will make a difference. For example the CEVO finals for L4D: One team got a shitload of mollies during the finale and the other didn't. The team with mollies got outplayed slightly that game, however the extra two mollies they got gave them the win. This was before the update that fixed the random item spawns btw but gives you an example of how a slight advantage can help.

There isn't much that can be done about tank and witch spawns except randomizing where they spawn. However that can be a horrible idea as one team may get the tank in front of a million cars and another in an open area where its easy to kite the tank. So the current way is probably the best way.

The mods/configs were tested by the community. For the most part it was the better teams who tested them as they are the ones who play the game more and know more about it. So unless you are on a very active team, its unlikely you got to test them.

I like the changes because it's more fun to me. Being a survivor is actually intense instead of vanilla where you find kits like mad. Overall, its just more challenging and difficult to get points which is more fun than being able to walk thru a map without fear of being wiped out.

Also exploring doesn't really factor too much into this. Most teams will skip exploring as it's best to attempt to get thru the map with as little damage taken as possible. Exploring leads to more damage which leads to a possible loss during the tiebreaker. Plus even if you go exploring you can still find items like mollies and pipes. Also those item removals were done for balancing sake, though tbh I'm not too sure why the chainsaw was taken out. I suppose the chainsaw made killing SI too easy or something.

Also on tanks, I don't agree they are supposed to be rare. Tanks were the only reason maps in L4D1 were difficult to get thru and with the exception of maps with the elevator and sewer drop down, it's still the case for L4D2. And fighting a tank every map is not boring as how a team handles the tank is usually key to win. So they are very exciting since they will decide who wins and loses in most cases.

And yes I run this mod on my server.

I'm sort of out of it right now at 4 am so ignore any typos, missing words, etc :lol I'm sure you'll get the basic jist of it

edit: Also like to throw in that the changes help emphasize what I consider the core of the game: survival.

 

[drkOne]

(...)

Not meaning to insult anyone that gave their opinion, but I find that finally someone was able to give some good points as why CEVO and the like changes aren't all good, and that there are advantages of vanilla settings.

I still find that vanilla isn't perfect. Even less with L4D2.
When the new SI started to be revealed and all the new things I thought, "competitive play will stay with L4D, because all these things are sort of useless (but fun to use, on a more relaxing way), and you want to keep it as simplified as possible when it comes to competitive level".
Mods cutting features added was kind of what I wanted to feel like L4D2 kept the focus on skill and not on dozens of new "tools", all around the map, that you could use to your advantage as survivor.
For me I prefer keeping only the core gameplay, making the game as simple as possible (but not too simple), and then master that small little things I'll have to use to be successful.

I'm talking about it as if I'm a tourney level player, when I just barely manage. But it's how I see the game, and I know how I enjoy playing it. It's when I feel challenged and somewhat competitive.
Give me only the basic things, and let me work with them to make myself better.
Cut everything but pills so I have to do my best to manage going through the map with just that.
That's why I like the mods.
I can take that some people don't, but I never saw vert calling anyone noob or casual for preferring to play with vanilla settings, so don't start with the "no medkits is only for srs bsnss players".

 

[Volcynika]

I can take that some people don't, but I never saw vert calling anyone noob or casual for preferring to play with vanilla settings, so don't start with the "no medkits is only for srs bsnss players".

I'm marking this to remember to look later, because my memory is hazy and I'd have to verify if some of vert's comments (might even be in the L4D thread) might be contradictory of this. Also, fallout's joke of being the comic relief and then being told he's not even part of the competitive scene (which can be taken as because he doesn't play the mod) might not be helpful to this point. If anyone attempts to say "well if you don't do ____, you're not included in the competitive world of this game" it's an insult to people that feel the competitive way is to play the way the game was originally designed. There are different KINDS of competitive challenges, but you can't exclude an entire set of rules from it. Yeah yeah, the "majority" (aka lots of people but it's unsure if it is an actual majority) may have said THIS IS HOW WE PLAY DAWGS, but there are still others that have their own competitive setup.

 

[MNC]

This is what I hate about server mods, it kind of divides players. Not to mention that I never knew when I'm playing a Vanilla server or not. I can choose this with 'official dedicated server' right? I hate server mods. Only good for playtime and testing things for fun. IN MY OPINION.

Instead of having one game that everybody plays and has a general consensus on, you have several altered versions of a game. I don't exactly know what my gripe is for this, I hate it even when you have a 1.01 Player's Choice version of Metroid Prime that 'patches' things. I think it's because discussion will be changed. "I just did X in game Y!" "Oh, I can't do that in my version." or something like that.

Gah! It's just a bothersome feeling. As long as I have the option to play regular, that's fine. You can have silly mods!

 

[1-D_FTW]

I'm marking this to remember to look later, because my memory is hazy and I'd have to verify if some of vert's comments (might even be in the L4D thread) might be contradictory of this. Also, fallout's joke of being the comic relief and then being told he's not even part of the competitive scene (which can be taken as because he doesn't play the mod) might not be helpful to this point. If anyone attempts to say "well if you don't do ____, you're not included in the competitive world of this game" it's an insult to people that feel the competitive way is to play the way the game was originally designed. There are different KINDS of competitive challenges, but you can't exclude an entire set of rules from it. Yeah yeah, the "majority" (aka lots of people but it's unsure if it is an actual majority) may have said THIS IS HOW WE PLAY DAWGS, but there are still others that have their own competitive setup.

It really shouldn't even be a problem. This is supposed to be an official neogaf L4D2 thread. If people wanna laugh at idiotic plugins, it should be free reign. People of course should be allowed to state both sides and be respected. Instead it becomes a back and forth because some posters have to always have the last word and be right. That's why I find the whole Twig/Vert so humorous. They're really identical, but they take opposite sides. Both are always "right" and have to have the last word. It makes for ugly clashes.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

Tanks should be somewhat rare in Versus if only because more often than not it made the Survivor vs Special Infected battle so painfully dull in the majority of the games I've played, unless for instance one team got the advantage with the timing or location of its spawn.

Versus quickly became a snoozefest for me if there's one side being very defensive due to them not wanting to risk losing their health lead (which admittedly is an understandable, logical concern) and having the other side endlessly chuck rocks until they fail to hit someone before the time limit expires. I'm also aware that it's a crucial requirement to co-operate with the other Special Infected so you'll gain the most out of a Tank spawn, but it's such a jarring contrast going from facing lone Expert Tanks that can sustain a thorough beating and still be a threat if you're not careful to Tanks that can be very easily melee'd to death if whoever's controlling him is being careless / clueless.

In short: it irks me that a Special Infected designed to be a lethal opponent at close range is anything but in Versus (by itself I mean) and practically has to be played in an almost completely opposite fashion in order to be 'efficient'... I will say though that it's fun to actually send Survivors flying, rather than instacapping them with a single punch.

I'd like to play this guy's Survival maps sometime. He's a member of the Black Mesa mod team, and these maps look pretty good:

Forage
http://www.snarkpit.net/maps/41/images/3262_1.jpg

Tower
http://www.rabidmnky.com/images/map_tower2.jpg

We should be able to play them in L4D2 if we have addon support installed.

Survival is such an underrated mode in Left 4 Dead 2.

 

[vertopci]

I'm marking this to remember to look later, because my memory is hazy and I'd have to verify if some of vert's comments (might even be in the L4D thread) might be contradictory of this. Also, fallout's joke of being the comic relief and then being told he's not even part of the competitive scene (which can be taken as because he doesn't play the mod) might not be helpful to this point. If anyone attempts to say "well if you don't do ____, you're not included in the competitive world of this game" it's an insult to people that feel the competitive way is to play the way the game was originally designed. There are different KINDS of competitive challenges, but you can't exclude an entire set of rules from it. Yeah yeah, the "majority" (aka lots of people but it's unsure if it is an actual majority) may have said THIS IS HOW WE PLAY DAWGS, but there are still others that have their own competitive setup.

How is getting medkits everywhere competitive? Vanilla settings are a walk in the park and offer no challenge aside from the elevators and drop down spots. The reason medkits were totally removed was because teams kept getting 180+ HP bonus in L4D1. Every change in the config has a reason. Mind you, L4D2 maps are a bit longer, but that's why default CEVO settings give you 4 kits in the saferoom.

And whether you like to admit it or not, you can't be included in the competitive world of L4D without these configs because these configs help balance the game out and these configs ARE the competitive world. Try to find a single team that is as good as say blight.dpv and plays on vanilla only. You won't. EVER.

 

[Sanjay]

Also, fallout's joke of being the comic relief and then being told he's not even part of the competitive scene (which can be taken as because he doesn't play the mod) might not be helpful to this point.

I took it as more of a way to play more with the mod more.

If anyone attempts to say "well if you don't do ____, you're not included in the competitive world of this game" it's an insult to people that feel the competitive way is to play the way the game was originally designed. There are different KINDS of competitive challenges, but you can't exclude an entire set of rules from it. Yeah yeah, the "majority" (aka lots of people but it's unsure if it is an actual majority) may have said THIS IS HOW WE PLAY DAWGS, but there are still others that have their own competitive setup.

Welcome to PC gaming. Don't see many vanilla games at competitive tournament levels and if you ask me its not a insult to people because there are tiers of levels of competitive players.

Versus quickly became a snoozefest for me if there's one side being very defensive due to them not wanting to risk losing their health lead (which admittedly is an understandable, logical concern) and having the other side endlessly chuck rocks until they fail to hit someone before the time limit expires.

You don't have to wait around and let the tank endlessly chuck rocks at you, you can either hunt him down or move on and let him chase you.

 

[Volcynika]

How is getting medkits everywhere competitive? Vanilla settings are a walk in the park and offer no challenge aside from the elevators and drop down spots. The reason medkits were totally removed was because teams kept getting 180+ HP bonus in L4D1. Every change in the config has a reason. Mind you, L4D2 maps are a bit longer, but that's why default CEVO settings give you 4 kits in the saferoom.

And whether you like to admit it or not, you can't be included in the competitive world of L4D without these configs because these configs help balance the game out and these configs ARE the competitive world. Try to find a single team that is as good as say blight.dpv and plays on vanilla only. You won't. EVER.

Thank you for proving my point and doing exactly what I mentioned. You're setting the rules that YOU enjoy playing by as competitive. Because this "balancing" is very subjective with some of the items being removed.

EDIT: Getting medkits everywhere can be competitive, despite your complaining about the challenge being lowered compared to your mod. Both teams would end up with them and therefore there would be a semblance of balance much like pills only.

Also, to your last point, I don't even know who that team is, but a great team should be able to handle ANY situation of gameplay and adapt, rather than only play on one set of rules and stick with that only.

 

[afternoon delight]

Have they announced any frame of release dates for "The Passing"? Is there even a hint out there? Or is it another Valve Time Release?

(To quickly ask in between this apparent argument.)

 

[Volcynika]

Have they announced any frame of release dates for "The Passing"? Is there even a hint out there? Or is it another Valve Time Release?

(To quickly ask in between this apparent argument.)

No solid release date yet. They just said to look forward for more details soon.

 

[Facism]

Have they announced any frame of release dates for "The Passing"? Is there even a hint out there? Or is it another Valve Time Release?

(To quickly ask in between this apparent argument.)

You'd think this was the online thread

 

[afternoon delight]

You'd think this was the online thread

Agreed. Every time I see it within the first five pages I think there's news. But it's Valve, I should know by now.

 

[Panda Bear]

Infected changer isn't used in CEVO tourneys is it? I'm watching some tourney matches on youtube and it doesn't seem like it's on.

 

[Ganhyun]

Make new friends?

I do play it online with others. However, I have a habit of wanting to go through on normal at least 1/2 times myself to learn the more common weapon spawn locations and such. The worst I felt playing L4D2 was just jumping into an online campaign constantly getting lost while my teammates sped run the levels and such.

The first time I got the game, I played through DC on single player. I struggled through that campaign,... on EASY. I can't believe you had the patience to play through other campaigns in single player! Compared to L4D, L4D2 definitely requires more co-op, stay-togetherness, and communication.

Go play some online multiplayer! Even if you end up in a game with some terrible players :lol

I did all the first game's levels on advanced by myself. I can see I wont likely be able to do 2's by myself that high though :lol

I do play multiplayer though. Just felt like commenting on the game weaknesses IMO compared to the last.

Its still a great game though.

 

[vertopci]

Thank you for proving my point and doing exactly what I mentioned. You're setting the rules that YOU enjoy playing by as competitive. Because this "balancing" is very subjective with some of the items being removed.

Balancing isn't subjective at all. It's been tested by and approved by the community. FrusMod for L4D1 was in testing for over 3 months where all the teams gave their input on how the balance was. Give me one reason how balancing is subjective when its been tested by the community. You can say you are competitive when you don't even participate in the tournaments.

EDIT: Getting medkits everywhere can be competitive, despite your complaining about the challenge being lowered compared to your mod. Both teams would end up with them and therefore there would be a semblance of balance much like pills only.

No it's not competitive. The whole point of being competitive is to decide who the best team is. The larger the gap between good and very good, the better it is for competitive play. Getting kits everywhere is absolutely stupid because every team will survive almost every map. It doesn't prove who the better survivors are at all. Also it helps to erase any mistakes made. If you make a mistake, YOU should have to live with it, not erase it and pretend it never happened.

Also, to your last point, I don't even know who that team is, but a great team should be able to handle ANY situation of gameplay and adapt, rather than only play on one set of rules and stick with that only.

You don't know who they are because YOU know nothing about the competitive side of L4D. Which is why you should stop arguing these things with me. I have played vanilla L4D and the several mods, whereas you haven't. It's like saying how GameX sucks when you haven't even played it.

Also, guess what? The team I mentioned won the Frusmod tourney and right now they are doing good in the current VANILLA L4D team tourney which makes your one set of rules crap invalid. So my question still stands: Can you find me one team as good as them who prefer vanilla L4D?

 

[RustyNails]

Wait, are we talking about no medkits AT ALL, like not even in the safe room at the start? I dont agree with that. If you're talking about additional medkits, I would say 1 per map and pills for the rest. I dont particularly like loads of medkits all over the place.

I had an awesome friends game of VS yesterday. The game was tied all the way to the Finale (dark carnival). In our round as survivors, the tank climbed on top of the concert roof and started chucking rocks. I somehow tossed a molly up there (which I felt overshot by a mile and tank was on the other side), and it landed right on the tank! That made the tank jump down and go after us, and we killed him in less than 10 seconds after that. I honed my molly throwing skills by cheesing the construction site event in Dead Air with molly throws. Needless to say, the other team didn't say a word but if I were the tank, I'd RAGE!

 

[vertopci]

Technically we are talking about 4 kits in the saferoom and no kits anywhere else I suppose since that's the default for CEVO right now...

 

[drkOne]

I'm marking this to remember to look later, because my memory is hazy and I'd have to verify if some of vert's comments (might even be in the L4D thread) might be contradictory of this.

I'll be honest, I started playing L4D with GAF very late, like September or so. I don't know what the story was before that. But "everyone" was always "vert only plays with you if you're like totally awesome", and that wasn't my personal experience.
I still sucked the first time I played with them, and I remember vert explaining me where I could do better as a SI, instead of going "omg, you suck so much, get out of my matches" like some people make it seem he does.
It's mostly just that.

I don't know what the backstory is with Blizzard, and I'd have to agree that there's no reason to tell someone that they suck, and yes, you're being a douche if you tell them directly.
But in a way, not from previous L4D experience, but from when I played MMOs, I know how frustrating it can be when a whole team loses because someone is just there to play how they feel like it, caring little to nothing about success and their team.
And I'm not saying that Blizzard was like that, just how I feel when that happens.

I know, it's a damn game, you're supposed to have fun with it. And that's where I understand where it may vary from person to person.
With me, I rarely have fun when I'm not playing at my best or when someone in the team couldn't care less about the rest of the people playing, and isn't even doing the minimum (and I mean it here as if someone could do better without much effort, but simply doesn't feel like it, I like to play with casual people, and I like to be helpful to them when they're willing to learn).

Maybe it's me taking some games too seriously, and I guess Twig had a point then, but I don't see it like that.
I want games to challenge me, or else I'd be just watching movies.

I'm not saying vanilla is for noobs, or that playing vanilla kills the competitiveness. I understand some people would rather play it like that.
I'm only giving my opinion on why I feel like modded is better, in a competitive situation.

No it's not competitive. The whole point of being competitive is to decide who the best team is. The larger the gap between good and very good, the better it is for competitive play. Getting kits everywhere is absolutely stupid because every team will survive almost every map. It doesn't prove who the better survivors are at all. Also it helps to erase any mistakes made. If you make a mistake, YOU should have to live with it, not erase it and pretend it never happened.

I'm pretty sure everyone of us started with the eventual playing on Normal/Hard and finishing maps barely surviving, even with all the medkits around. So I don't agree that it isn't competitive at all.
It is competitive, until a certain level is reached. Then you do have the problem of distinguishing the good and the very good teams. Which is where modded configs start to be useful to keep the competitive side of things.

You don't know who they are because YOU know nothing about the competitive side of L4D. Which is why you should stop arguing these things with me. I have played vanilla L4D and the several mods, whereas you haven't. It's like saying how GameX sucks when you haven't even played it.

I don't think knowledge with the tourney level stuff is required to give your personal opinion.
Maybe you'll be bitching about things when you aren't simply "getting it" when it comes to why they use it at that level, but a personal opinion should be just that.
If one prefers to play with vanilla settings it shouldn't be blamed on not knowing how the best players play, just on how that person plays, without trying to present their opinion as the only valid one, so, in a way, trying to understand what others see as advantages.

 

[vertopci]

The thing that annoys me about Blizzard is that when he tries he isn't that bad at all. I wouldn't mind having him on my team if he actually tries. I've been on his team when he was actually trying and I actually liked him being on my team then. But most of the time he does really dumb stuff or won't listen and I can't attribute that to anything but him purposefully griefing.

 

[Prototype-03]

Hey Volcy... Didn't know you played L4D2... are you on steam? Add me if you are: dyun115. Actually, anyone who wants to play versus, add me

 

[RustyNails]

I never tell people they suck while playing, and yes its a complete douchey move to say so...except this one time I REALLY got pissed because of some guy doing his own thing. Apart from that, I try to guide the team (hunter go first, then spit) with little tactics here and there, not a big strategy. I really need to get a mic though. I don't call in votekicks unless

1) Bot is a better player than the noob
2) 13 year old on the mic

 

[MNC]

Technically we are talking about 4 kits in the saferoom and no kits anywhere else I suppose since that's the default for CEVO right now...

Just a normal question: What does CEVO actually stand for?