Lego to cut 1,400 jobs and 'reset company' after sales drop
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nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Infringement of copyright isn't a crime - simply because you can do it by accident.
However, it's something that can be argued in legal proceedings, and in cases like this it's a slam dunk.
But this is China, and unfortunately these asshole copycats aren't touchable. I think Lego should be allowed to take legal action against any sellers or shipping handlers outside of China, though.
People sure have no idea how expensive the LEGO moulds are compared to the moulds for usual plastic stuff they buy. To get that precision the bricks need to have to interlock perfectly with all bricks released over the years, moulds can easily come over at $50,000 to $100,000 per mould. A regular decent mould is usually in the $10,000 range. Factor in that they have the replace the moulds sooner due to wear than other applications of injection moulding, since the fault tolerances are so low. So yes, the plastic is rather cheap, but the manufacturing sure isn't.
If they were to slash prices a lot, quality would drop off considerably too. Just take a look at some knock off bricks and after playing for a while with them you will notice the difference.
I think the main problem the company has is just way too many sets that don't appeal to some of the demographics they were targetting. LEGO won't go away, but streamlining and focusing on the profitable ventures seems like a good idea to save the company.
If they were to slash prices a lot, quality would drop off considerably too. Just take a look at some knock off bricks and after playing for a while with them you will notice the difference.
I think the main problem the company has is just way too many sets that don't appeal to some of the demographics they were targetting. LEGO won't go away, but streamlining and focusing on the profitable ventures seems like a good idea to save the company.
Yeah, the problem with that is it turns Lego solely in to a puzzle rather than a creation tool. Whereas Lego was always both of those things in the past.
That said, they still have the 'pick n mix' Lego in the Lego stores, even if it is insanely expensive.
AlexFlame116
Member
NeoGAF is the first place where I've been reprimanded for asking for lower prices. Didn't know it was that important to you guys.
Either way, you stand by what you think and I'll stand by what I think. I think the prices should be lower.
Either way, you stand by what you think and I'll stand by what I think. I think the prices should be lower.
I mean, I want lower prices too, who wouldn't?! But you also need to have realistic expectations. Maybe it's because I'm an engineer and have a good base of economy, but a company can't just set any price they want. There's always some stuff that could be cheaper, like iPhone could perfectly cost $100 less and Apple would still be profitable, they just lose a bit of their premium branding. But I don't really think LEGO is price gauging that much. You can't expect them to sell their stuff at a loss just because you want $30 Saturn V rockets.
Master Yoshi
Member
I wish they had gotten the license to Halo. Megablocks has been running with that beans for like ten years.
Also, it's a shame they didn't capture that Minecraft magic first. Seems like the entire concept of Minecraft IS what Lego is all about, but they missed the boat.
Also, it's a shame they didn't capture that Minecraft magic first. Seems like the entire concept of Minecraft IS what Lego is all about, but they missed the boat.
Always-honest
Banned
Just make it less overexpensive a bit?
Opus Angelorum
Member
I appreciate the quality of the product and the various licensing deals however the prices are and have been for some time, overpriced.
A small set, that takes only 15 minutes to build, costs £15-20.
Some of the bigger sets may take a few hours, but they cost in excess of £50.
I only buy the odd set every year, but would definitely buy more if the prices were more reasonable.
A small set, that takes only 15 minutes to build, costs £15-20.
Some of the bigger sets may take a few hours, but they cost in excess of £50.
I only buy the odd set every year, but would definitely buy more if the prices were more reasonable.
My cat jumped four foot into the air when I laughed at that!
Azure Phoenix
Member
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
They were always about £80, like the 8880 super car. My first Mindstorms kit was a step up at £160, though.
Yeah I thought so. I wasn't buying of course but I remember seeing prices as a kid in TRU.
Never did get the supercar or the shuttle. Wish I could have had mindstorms back then bearing in mind I was building computers one day and Lego the next lol.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
The games have been doing very well, outside of Dimensions slumping (Lego Force Awakens was pretty huge), The Lego Movie was a clear success, and despite somewhat underperforming Lego Batman made money too. But only so much of that goes to Lego - the majority of the movie and game money is going back to Warner Bros/WB Interactive. Lego just gets whatever cut the licensing agreement gives them (which while non-negligible is small potatoes next to revenue from actual sets and theme park revenue), as well as a marketing boost.
rbanke
Member
I'm gonna be real bummed the day they lower their quality to cut costs. I can't think of any other toy (hell even against more other products) built with the quality of LEGO and it feels inevitable they'll reduce that quality at some point.
More specifically to the topic, it feels like they've oversaturated a bit compared to when they first started becoming popular again.
More specifically to the topic, it feels like they've oversaturated a bit compared to when they first started becoming popular again.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
I had so many flagship Technic sets. The super car, the black crane truck, the original Control Center, the barcode truck, the shuttle, the Ferrari F1 car...Probably some more.
You'll not be surprised to hear I became an engineer!
FullMetaltech
Member
I would think that they would invest in R&D that would help with longer lasting moulds and plastic at this point and that in tail would cut costs for them. I mean they've been around for awhile. But my guess is the most cost comes from licensing these sets from these big companys. Just wish they were at affordable price ranges like alot said before. Right now im using an ev3 educator set to teach kids robotic programming and thats pretty pricey for a common household.
Chezzymann
Member
Most people in this thread are just people who buy stuff for their kids or walked through the aisle one time two years ago and dont know what price per piece is or anything.
TheSecondSpitter
Member
Yeah, I'm gonna need a citation for that.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Mold tech is at a plateau. There's very little in that area you can do to increase their shelf life, especially when the tolerances they work to are so high.
That's why the cheaper rip offs are so shit in their fitting. They don't have the money to be replacing tooling as often, so it's inevitable that they have high variability in sizes.
Dr. Black Jack
Member
stop with the licensing and horrible attempts at humor plz
I dont get these comments about licensing. They still do their other basic sets which are cheaper due to no licensing costs. If you want Lego but dont want licensed sets you can totally just not buy those ones.
1985 fire station: https://brickset.com/sets/6385-1/Fire-House-I
407 parts, RRP $43 = 10.5c/part in 1985
$43 in 1985 is $97.82 today (http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/)
So a modern cost of 24 cents per part.
2016 fire station: https://brickset.com/sets/60110-1/Fire-Station
919 parts, RRP $100 = 10.8 cents per part
Lego is less than half the price per part today than it was 30 years ago.
Or, more accurately, a fire station model costs about the same, but today has more than twice as many parts.
Chezzymann
Member
You also have to factor in that parts today are generally smaller than in the 80s. Lots of plates and tiles now. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, while it results in smaller total volume it adds lots of detail and higher stability. Sometimes more advanced play features too.
FullMetaltech
Member
This is cool. I love seeing the facts behind the products. Either way if you love legos you cant go wrong spending the money just like any other hobby.
It's hard to get a good impression without having actual piles of lego on hand, but both sets have plenty of bricks, tiles and slopes. It's just the modern one also has large panel pieces to bulk things out (plus tons more detail). The 2016 model is physically larger than the 1985 one, by quite a bit!
The problem is that they don't give you a choice. If a kid wants a fire station, you'd have to suck up the extra costs - warranted based on piece count or not - compared to the less detailed sets from a few years ago.
F.e. there was this fire station in 2005 for 30$
or this one in 2010 for 80$
Yes, piece counts are increasing without increasing the cost per piece, but they've decided to keep on increasing it just enough to jack up total prices.
Another example:
20$ in 2001
70$ in 2015
what if you just want a fucking TIE Fighter man. they are treating all of their customers like collectors
You may have pulled that from your assanova because there are no $300 city buildings, let alone one you could call basic, unless you're talking currency other than USD.
Their biggest failure was not locking down Minecraft. Nowadays that's practically Lego 2.0 for almost all the kids I know, much to the detriment of physical Lego itself. Failing that, they didn't even manage to cook up a clone. Mind, they did dabble in videogames, and the Lego games were mostly excellent, at worst entertaining, but they only offered traditional games with a Lego skin on top, not genuine Lego gameplay. So in the end, it was kind of a dead end, brand recognition boost aside. Look at what Amiibos do for Nintendo. Imagine that with Lego. Entire countries would go bankrupt.
Personally, I'd have loved more proliferation of the mindstorm stuff for young adults, which would have worked only if they had offered far cheaper, smaller, less capable as well as more luxurious options. The original mindstorm brick was effing huge and unwieldy, and they did not manage to crack the Arduino or Raspberry Pi audience because it simply wasn't as capable and heinously expensive in comparison. Wasted opportunity, if you ask me.
Heck, a resurgence of the home computer: the LegoPi. Sold in the millions for dirt cheap to gullible parents. You can connect a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse and watch your kid code the next million-selling AppStore app, or get cheap games and word processing software with a single click. Free 4-month Legocraft custom server with each purchase. Extensible via Lego Userport (1xUSB 8xGPIO). Watch those YouTube nutters control their entire house from the comfort of their LegoPi remote control smartphone app (200/a dev license and 50 LegoPi Open Source devkit surcharge applies).
Also: Make several NASA approved Mars Rover Mindstorm sets at the height of that particular hype, release them with a "mission control" software (mated to a RTOSy Linux on chip) that allows for the authentic Mars mission feeling and rake in the money. Instead they sat on their asses and watched on as fans around the globe rolled their own versions. Imbeciles.
FFS, there's so much crazy shit they could pull. Sell RFID tagged bricks or put a QR code inside each brick so I can see where it was manufactured and who owned it previously and what they built with it. While tweeting bab out it and unlocking my garage with it. Minilego, to build your own smartphone case with. Build-o-bot, a Lego robot that builds simpler Lego models given enough bricks and a plan from the net, the Lego equivalent of the 3D printer. A smartphone app that tries to convert 3D pictures into Lego meshes for build-o-bot. VirtuLego VR/AR software for futzing around with build-o-bot plans, free with every Oculus Rift (Pro version offers more CAD/CAM capabilities and costs 799). Spin all that stuff off into an experimental Lego branch, test the market with "limited editions" and "public betas" and sell whatever meets with success.
In regards to their traditional market, they've always been a bit more expensive. Not sure what they can really do there. The cost is fixed, the market is rather static.
They seem to have added way too many special bricks and items, however. That's maybe just me as an old fart talking bullshit, but it feels like modern Lego sets come with so many single use or specialised bricks and stickers that the reusability suffers. Great for good looking figurines to put on your shelf, but bad for little Timmy who only gets three tiny sets per year and has to make do with that. On the other hand, Mister Scalper will buy every set with limited piece x he can get his grubby mitts on and sell it separately on eBay for a nice profit while the rest of the fans gnash their teeth and wail like banshees.
And, as crazy as it sounds, how about a bio option in the post-plastic era? People are drinking their triple domesticated gene free supercoffee out of biodegradable paper containers hand crafted by well paid biodegradable equal opportunity employees out of recycled toilet roll sludge. They investigate how much animal abuse went into their burger patties and even seriously consider turning off their facebooks and twitters more often to save the environment. Why would they pollute their homes with oil based indestructible crap?
Lego should be in the headlines for offering solid wooden Lego bricks, biodegradable corn bricks and edible soy bricks.
Personally, I'd have loved more proliferation of the mindstorm stuff for young adults, which would have worked only if they had offered far cheaper, smaller, less capable as well as more luxurious options. The original mindstorm brick was effing huge and unwieldy, and they did not manage to crack the Arduino or Raspberry Pi audience because it simply wasn't as capable and heinously expensive in comparison. Wasted opportunity, if you ask me.
Heck, a resurgence of the home computer: the LegoPi. Sold in the millions for dirt cheap to gullible parents. You can connect a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse and watch your kid code the next million-selling AppStore app, or get cheap games and word processing software with a single click. Free 4-month Legocraft custom server with each purchase. Extensible via Lego Userport (1xUSB 8xGPIO). Watch those YouTube nutters control their entire house from the comfort of their LegoPi remote control smartphone app (200/a dev license and 50 LegoPi Open Source devkit surcharge applies).
Also: Make several NASA approved Mars Rover Mindstorm sets at the height of that particular hype, release them with a "mission control" software (mated to a RTOSy Linux on chip) that allows for the authentic Mars mission feeling and rake in the money. Instead they sat on their asses and watched on as fans around the globe rolled their own versions. Imbeciles.
FFS, there's so much crazy shit they could pull. Sell RFID tagged bricks or put a QR code inside each brick so I can see where it was manufactured and who owned it previously and what they built with it. While tweeting bab out it and unlocking my garage with it. Minilego, to build your own smartphone case with. Build-o-bot, a Lego robot that builds simpler Lego models given enough bricks and a plan from the net, the Lego equivalent of the 3D printer. A smartphone app that tries to convert 3D pictures into Lego meshes for build-o-bot. VirtuLego VR/AR software for futzing around with build-o-bot plans, free with every Oculus Rift (Pro version offers more CAD/CAM capabilities and costs 799). Spin all that stuff off into an experimental Lego branch, test the market with "limited editions" and "public betas" and sell whatever meets with success.
In regards to their traditional market, they've always been a bit more expensive. Not sure what they can really do there. The cost is fixed, the market is rather static.
They seem to have added way too many special bricks and items, however. That's maybe just me as an old fart talking bullshit, but it feels like modern Lego sets come with so many single use or specialised bricks and stickers that the reusability suffers. Great for good looking figurines to put on your shelf, but bad for little Timmy who only gets three tiny sets per year and has to make do with that. On the other hand, Mister Scalper will buy every set with limited piece x he can get his grubby mitts on and sell it separately on eBay for a nice profit while the rest of the fans gnash their teeth and wail like banshees.
And, as crazy as it sounds, how about a bio option in the post-plastic era? People are drinking their triple domesticated gene free supercoffee out of biodegradable paper containers hand crafted by well paid biodegradable equal opportunity employees out of recycled toilet roll sludge. They investigate how much animal abuse went into their burger patties and even seriously consider turning off their facebooks and twitters more often to save the environment. Why would they pollute their homes with oil based indestructible crap?
Lego should be in the headlines for offering solid wooden Lego bricks, biodegradable corn bricks and edible soy bricks.
Dragon Puncher
Member
LEGO still makes plenty of low price sets though. Instead of buying the Fire Station the kid could get the Fire ATV at $6, the Fire Truck at $20, the Fire Transporter at $50 and the Fire Plane at $60, among others. There's still plenty of options.
Ban Puncher
Member
But they put out such carefully curated original and educational products.
The Albatross
Member
Interesting. Lego was considered, or referred to, as 'recession proof' as they were one of the few toy companies to still see growth and revenue throughout the economic downturn.
Interesting that as other companies have bounced back, their growing pains are hitting now.
Interesting that as other companies have bounced back, their growing pains are hitting now.
He probably saw Assembly Square, which has 4000 pieces and is anything but basic when you look closer than a quick look.
Yes, Lego is expensive. It has always been that way. But it offers immense quality and a lot of playtime too. The only sets that are really overpriced imo are the licensed stuff like Star Wars, which suffers from the percentage Disney undoubtedly nabs on every sale.
People complaining about specialised pieces haven't probably touched Lego for years. Yes, there are a lot more types of pieces these days, but they are constantly used in suprising ways. Even stuff like a 'banana' is used as eyebrows in a Ninjago dragon set. Also, my neighbor's kid is a big Lego fan like me, and shows me his builds regulary. Kids are still very much tempted and encouraged to build their own stuff in stead of just following the instructions (which isn't something new. Lego always had instructions)
And people defending Lepin can f right of in my book. It's a firm bordering on criminality, blatantly stealing the work of others for profit. Yes, you can think Lego is too expensive, but that doesn't excuse going for these sets bordering on pure counterfeit (of which you don't even know how safe it is. I'm pretty sure Lego holds some standards in it's factories, even the ones in low-income countries. I don't think Lepin does the same)
The 5% decrease in profits isn't even as apocalyptic as some seem to imply. Lego has had constant growth during more then a decade and still is very profitable. They're probably 'hurt' by some lines not catching on like Nexo Knights, and overexpectation of the Lego Batman Movie (that toy line is incredibly bloated with way to many available sets in different waves. That was also the case with the Lego Movie, but that movie not only was more popular, the sets were cheaper to as most of them didn't have licensed figures in them)
The Albatross
Member
It's hard to get a good impression without having actual piles of lego on hand, but both sets have plenty of bricks, tiles and slopes. It's just the modern one also has large panel pieces to bulk things out (plus tons more detail). The 2016 model is physically larger than the 1985 one, by quite a bit!
Something I've noticed now that my nephew is 6 and legos and Playmobil are go to gifts, is that sets are needlessly complex (needlessly IMO), and are supplanting imagination. Some good photos in this thread about a fire house from the 80s, 2000s, and 2015. The new ones look great, they look very realistic with a lot of detail that the old ones lacked, but as part of that detail, you loose a bit of the imagination... SOme of the creativity of it because it's so precise.
Legos, just by their nature, have always been a caricature of reality, not a reproduction of reality, and putting together these simple play sets that take me, literally, an hour to assemble loses some of its lustre.
I may just be an old man yelling at a cloud, but I think these precise, very detailed sets also discourage breaking them down and building something else. There's so many bespoke pieces in lego sets today, pieces that are precisely designed to give a certain layout, affect, or detail to a structure, that it doesn't encourage creativity as much. As a kid, Lego sets rarely lasted a few days for me before I broke them down and made my own structures with them.
BUt who knows, kids may enjoy that more today and so who am I to know what kids have fun doing.
https://shop.lego.com/en-US/NINJAGO-City-70620
You were saying?? I look forward to those goal posts being moved.
Oh no brand-store displays high end brand new product in store entrance to showcase. The entire store is definitely full of these sets and there will be nothing under $300, Id better leave.
Not dismissing that set being first through the door - I think the Leicester Square store has that prominently displayed too. But so what? Why would one model - regardless of the price - cause you to turn around and leave? Just seems odd.
If you were thinking of buying a 1 series BMW, would you feel disgusted that the dealership likely has an expensive convertible m3 in the showroom as a halo?
I hear you, I just hated City sets growing up and miss Pirates and Castle lol.
This is nonsense. Inflation exists, Lego was expensive when my parents were buying them for me 25 years ago, and if anything, adjusted for inflation, they're cheaper now than when I was growing up. Buy comparably sized sets and you'll see the difference. Comparing a 3000 piece set to the 700 piece sets I used to think were huge and you'll see what I mean.
I also think some people don't really see the generation spanning appeal Lego has. Many of the toys I had as a kid look like weird garbage to kids today; growing up I played with Lego that belonged to older relatives that fit perfectly with the sets my parents bought me, and now the kids in my family integrate Lego I grew up with in perfectly with the sets they get now.
Anyone wanting to spend a lot of money on plastic should take a look at tabletop wargaming; I started that at 13 and I'm pretty sure my parents would have rather bought more Lego instead lol.
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