Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I mentioned earlier in the thread, one of the articles mentions one, but I can't verify the authenticity, so I didn't link.
Limo burned at inauguration protest was owned by a Muslim immigrant; cost him $70,000
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I mentioned earlier in the thread, one of the articles mentions one, but I can't verify the authenticity, so I didn't link.
7DollarHagane
Banned
It is the extreme miniority of us businesses that voluntarily provide health insurance for part time workers. That's the context of stating it's generous. That's obviously something to question on a larger cultural scale but it doesn't mean they shouldn't deserve some praise for it.
Stealing a loaf, sharing a slice.
I mean I get that the problem is systemic and that as a normal small business providing insurance to part-timers would be impossible (others don't have to do it you'll be beaten in price). In this case however we are talking about a corporation that has gigantic scale advantages over a small-medium business. Starbucks can afford to set up a whole tax evasion scheme in which results in illegitimate large profits. Hurting both tax payers and also small-businesses. With that in mind, giving insurance to their part-time staff isn't something to commend them for. They're still shitty overall.
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
Goldman Sachs estimates that almost half of Chinese labor makes $2000 a year. That's disgusting and an injustice. That doesn't even take into account forced rent payments to the company for 'housing' (it's a fucking cot) and debt to the company 'store'.
Collective ownership of factories is my alternative.
ClosingADoor
Member
OK, and now compare that data from Goldman Sachs to how people used to live before it. Because it was even worse. Nobody says the system is perfect, but it is the best we have at the moment and has lifted large amounts of people towards a better life.
Collective ownership didn't work in any country where it has been tried. Also, within capitalism you are free to set up a business in such a way if you want btw. Next solution please.
Yes, next time bring your car as a protest "sacrifice", then we'll talk
Bl@de
Member
Come on. Don't you know the standard communist answer? It just wasn't done right before! We will surely succeed. Just believe in it.
Kill Your Masters
Member
They live in a bubble, they'll never understand. A lost cause that's lucky enough that people exist who are ready to spill their own blood for the greater good while they comment from the sidelines.
Their predecessors would smack the shit out of them if they were alive to witness this.
ClosingADoor
Member
Anarchists committing arson during a protest can in no way be compared to the unions from back in the day that fought for their worker's rights. They are not spilling their blood, they are not fighting for a cause. They are opportunists who know they can get away with it at that moment.
Kill Your Masters
Member
I imagine anarchists existed then too and commited similar crimes? The media just has the means now to focus on the tiny groups and blow them out of proportion while ignoring the rest.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Just need to grind a few more million lives down the drain, it'll work this time for sure!
Coriolanus
Banned
Fwiw, a democratic government system necessarily brings with it collective ownership of the state. So....
So what's wrong with condemning these arsonists then? Some people here try to act like this was done for a high and mighty cause
Dr. Benton Quest
Banned
Do you think that at some point the average Chinese worker will enjoy the same life as the average American worker? The cold fact is that while you tell yourself that exploited workers make a few cents more than they did decades ago they will never experience the same level of 'prosperity' you have today.
Capitalism requires exploitation.
It's hilarious that you call a system in which billions of people are destitute a 'solution'. There's nothing wrong with collective ownership of factories.
Kill Your Masters
Member
Nothing.
But generalising that "violence and destroying property" is never ever good is a naive and dangerous way of thinking when history proves us time and time again that peaceful protest during dark times are not the absolute answer.
To be fair, GAF is Hillary left. They are totally down with centrist neo-liberalism.
While women are going to be stripped of rights, racists appointed to the highest offices, Muslims put on lists, and DREAMERS deported, GAF will get angry at protesters and people punching Nazis in the face.
M0nochromatic
Member
The reason they play with people's lives is because they have no regard for life. Expressing their anger and disdain is of a higher priority then not harming innocent bystanders. They view those killed and harmed as acceptable losses in the war on capitalism, in the very same way the capitalists justify all the victims of their system.
The ends justify the means.
(Also it's very funny to me, reading this debate and criticism of capitalism, violence, and property destruction on a privately owned, gated, moderated, and monetized video game message board.)
pirateluigi
Member
But isn't that the whole point? The media will blow it out of proportion and everyone knows it. A movement won't succeed without the hearts of the people and this kind of destruction will be used negatively against the very cause you hope to champion. You end up losing more supporters than you gain.
Lostconfused
Member
I agree, if you are not white then you shouldn't be able to afford luxuries like cars, or food, or housing. Or anything really, pretty much nobody but white people should have any money at all tbh.
ClosingADoor
Member
The Western world has an obscene amount of wealth compared to other parts of the world, no disagreement there. But that is not the discussion.
That Chinese worker will have a better life then his father and grandfather today because of the influence of capitalism.
Your argument is "but it can be better", and I don't disagree with that. However, you don't give any means to reach that better situation. I'm saying capitalism is the best functional system we have at the moment to lift people out of poverty. Then you couple that with social programs and certain government regulations so you don't get into the extreme exploitation, and those parts are lacking in some countries.
There is nothing wrong with it. But the problem is, it doesn't work.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Nah, fuck that. Protest all you want but you don't get to fuck up someone's property because they're "X".
Bl@de
Member
Of course the chinese worker doesn't have the same life. It's a complete different country with a different history and economic system.
In reality the rich get richer and the poor get richer. But please continue your case for communist practices. They sure helped to better the life of a lot of people in Soviet Russia and other countries.
On Inequality and poverty: https://mises.org/blog/inequality-doesnt-create-poverty
Kill Your Masters
Member
There is no efficient way to stop them. Even if you do, the other side can easily infiltrate any legit protest and start destroying everything in their name. If the media wants to help, then they shouldn't give so much meaning to a tiny fraction of the protesters.
Legit, gaf is mostly right wing, with a few centrists. There are very few leftists here. And just fucking lol at liberals who think they're left. Relative to conservatives they are left but ideologically they are right wing.
The living standards of slaves in the US increased over time. Is that an argument for slavery? If not, it's not an argument for capitalism
ClosingADoor
Member
This is one of the worst comparisons I have ever heard. With that kind of logic you can pretty much dismiss anything.
Also, it yet again provides no alternative.
Naw modern anarchists are generally cowards and go after tangential targets that aren't likely to fight back.
Old school anarchists were actually willing to target the true enemies of their movement.
Quite high? What kind of a comment is this. Just because there's a lot of inequality, doesn't mean non-white people can't be or are not rich. This is someones property, would they like it if someone did something like that to their car?
I'm sick of wealth equality as well, but I don't go around torching peoples cars that are richer than me, because if someone did that to me, I'd be pissed.
Did you really answer the question of naming a happy prosperous non-capitalist nation and went for North Korea as your response? If I ask you to name a good example of changing a country through property destruction are you going to tell me the kristallnacht?
Lostconfused
Member
If only there were some way to protest without burning things and throwing rocks!
Really though, protest = fine.
Riot = bad & counterproductive (it will be used against you)
Also, it's ironic it's an immigrant's limo given the subject of the protest, but that's it --- irony! It's plain bad to destroy, uh, anyone's limo as part of your protest. MLK Jr. didn't burn white or black people's limos. It's a good policy.
Maintenance
Member
Protest all you want, block all the roads you want. When you start breaking shit and setting stuff on fire to "stick it to the man", I have zero pity if the police starts throwing stuff at you.
When has there ever been property damage in a violent protest that was actually constructive? Leaving aside the usual arguments about whether it delegitimizes your protest, seems like the only people really hurt by them are average people or more often the very people protesting themselves (torching the only CVS serving a poor neighborhood in Baltimore, the destruction of DC and a lot of urban cores in 1960s race riots.)
We haven't had any riots with such a political aim or widespread nature in recent memory. Depending on how reductive you get you can call the American Revolution a riot, but it doesn't actually tell you much. A better analogue is whether the Boston Tea Party was actually effective at doing anything besides making lives for average people worse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution
Setting aside the chances for success, rioting has taken down governments before.
We haven't had any riots with such a political aim or widespread nature in recent memory. Depending on how reductive you get you can call the American Revolution a riot, but it doesn't actually tell you much. A better analogue is whether the Boston Tea Party was actually effective at doing anything besides making lives for average people worse.
Maintenance
Member
You don't need to break shit to protest and get things done.
But people won't know they're for real until they start smashing the windows of random cars or throwing bricks through random shop windows or throwing molotovs into crowds of people but then run away when the police show up and leave the real protesters to stand their ground and likely face the consequences of anarchist stupidity.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Is this a joke post?
Reminds me of the PETA people that would rather kill an innocent dog or cat savagely than to see them be part of a family.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Destroying an icon of extreme wealth and marking it with a traditional American motto isn't counter-productive. It's a substantial blow against Trump and what he stands for, sending the message that many Americans are willing to fight back against the repressions of his government. You are free to take issue with destruction of property, but these actions are not meaningless.
This is literally the stupidest fucking thing i have ever heard. This. Is. Wrong. Just say that and move on. Stop trying to justify it.
seeing that stupid-assed anarchist A on the car should be enough to tell you that this is not representative or the whole crowd. There will always be opportunistic assholes in protests who use a protest as cover to destroy and/or steal property.
Protest organizers and participants should do more to encourage self-policing in situations like this, otherwise you're going to wind up with the actual fucking police and they are not going to treat you well.
Protest organizers and participants should do more to encourage self-policing in situations like this, otherwise you're going to wind up with the actual fucking police and they are not going to treat you well.
cheezcake
Member
So you're saying it would've been okay if a white guy owned it?
DudeWithNoName
Member
Exactly. Fuck violent protesters.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
LOL @ the limo owner's race controversy.
The anarchists are annoying as hell and cowardly.
The anarchists are annoying as hell and cowardly.
Mammoth Jones
Member
It really is. These morons that light limos up think the rich literally own them in every instance. Instead it's a guy trying to make a living and operating a business.
How does fucking him over hurt Trump?
TheRedSnifit
Member
Because the Chinese were absolutely better off when they gave collectivism a go.
Socialism
Ganzlinger
Member
Destroying property is a crime. If you want to protest, do it like a civilized person.
In my opinion, people should accept Trump, for now, as president and wait for his government acts, so you can have a better motivation and reason to protest or not against those measures. A general protest against Trump won't get anywhere.
In my opinion, people should accept Trump, for now, as president and wait for his government acts, so you can have a better motivation and reason to protest or not against those measures. A general protest against Trump won't get anywhere.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I mean, they can't even aim right.
When you point out that the limo is owned by a small business owner, al most killed a person, and it's a fucking limo of all things they say "Da image though!"
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
What a bunch of shithead protestors. You can voice your opinion without destroying people's property and livelihood.
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