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[TheCochese]

This has been really effective, because I have family members who instead of talking about the massive amount of peaceful marchers on Saturday, they are talking about the one limo that was burned and one police officer hurt on Friday.

So, nice job?


Personally, I always thought the threat of violence was way more effective than pricks releasing repressed teenage hormones. But that's just me.

 

[Dragonite]

When liberals are talking about peaceful protests, they're not talking about what Gandhi did, they're talking about doing things that don't inconvenience them and are approved by the state.

 

[ahoyhoy]

When liberals are talking about peaceful protests, they're not talking about what Gandhi did, they're talking about doing things that don't inconvenience them and are approved by the state.

Smash the windows of the Nazi headquarters then.

Don't smash the windows of the shopkeeper down the street because you assume they're probably evil and then retreat back into the shadows while others clean up the mess.

 

[ClosingADoor]

When liberals are talking about peaceful protests, they're not talking about what Gandhi did, they're talking about doing things that don't inconvenience them and are approved by the state.
http://i.imgur.com/KX0lYUT.jpg

No, people are talking about not burning cars of unrelated persons. How about you go storm the White House?

This is some Facebook level drive by posting you are doing here.

 

[Ravensmash]

When liberals are talking about peaceful protests, they're not talking about what Gandhi did, they're talking about doing things that don't inconvenience them and are approved by the state.

Oh look its this image again.

Pray tell me, what good has this piece of idiocy achieved in comparison to the widely reported mass protests that were primarily peaceful.

Other than providing ammo for the other side to wrongly discredit and label their opponents as "violent"?

In this particular instance. This very one.

 

[kame-sennin]

Do you guys just not do insurance in America or something? What's with everyone saying the dude is going to have to finance a replacement all by himself?

It's the only way to make a minor event into a major tragedy.

What is this supposed to mean?

It means that breaking inanimate objects isn't violence, hurting people is.

Other posters have pointed out that the driver was hurt, so yes, that's violence. But the focus of this thread has been on big piece of metal and glass being set on fire.

 

[Zoe]

Seriously, what are the chances that an expensive car wouldn't be owned by a white man? You can't blame the protesters, c'mon now...

Rich people typically don't own limos.

As a person living in Europe.. I have a question..

Is the Limo driver not insured..? isn't there a law that requires an owner to have his car insured..?
If this had been where I live, the insurance would pay him the money.

Insurance doesn't cover every kind of damage--it's mostly for accidents. The owner is concerned that a riot would not be covered.

 

[eizarus]

When liberals are talking about peaceful protests, they're not talking about what Gandhi did, they're talking about doing things that don't inconvenience them and are approved by the state.

Because the Limo owner is a white supremacist neo-Nazi?
Fuck me, that's some low level shit post right there. "oh this image has quotes I like and a 1% relevance to the topic so let's post it".

 

[ahoyhoy]

Do you guys just not do insurance in America or something? What's with everyone saying the dude is going to have to finance a replacement all by himself?

Depends on the type of insurance. Most people get the cheap kind that's mandatory in order to operate a vehicle: insurance to cover the cost of fixing the damage done to other drivers/vehicles in an accident where you are at fault. Adding personal protection to fix your own vehicle when you're at fault is more expensive which is why some people waive it.

Since the rioters likely didn't have Riot Insurance they likely won't be providing the limo owner with the cost of repairs.

 

[Jacksinthe]

It's the only way to make a minor event into a major tragedy.

Oh I'm sure insurance will make him 100% whole before his next day of work so he can continue to, you know, do inconsequential shit like eat and pay bills.

No worries, right? Not like torching his job put him out at all. This is easy street!

 

[kame-sennin]

Destruction of personal property is horseshit. I hope everyone who is advocating this kind of nonsense gets their cars keyed, stolen, or firebombed too see how shitty it feels.

The working class knows exactly how it feels to have their property destroyed. Wall Street is much better at it than anarchists are.

 

[The Albatross]

Destroying an icon of extreme wealth and marking it with a traditional American motto isn't counter-productive. It's a substantial blow against Trump and what he stands for, sending the message that many Americans are willing to fight back against the repressions of his government. You are free to take issue with destruction of property, but these actions are not meaningless.

Other people have responded to the crux of your argument, but, a small aside...

"Limos being an icon of extreme wealth" is such an out of touch wealth fantasy. People with extreme wealth do not ride in limos anymore, it went out of fashion in the 1980s. Limos today are almost all reserved for middle and lower income weddings, bachelor parties, and proms.

The idea of limos like this representing wealth is something out of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous or a 1990 Million Dollar Man WWF promo. It's kind of similar to gold-encrusted furnishing representing extreme wealth... They're fads that went out of style in the 1980s, and mostly persist with people who aren't really wealthy but want to "look wealthy," and their conception of wealth is from 20-year-old professional wrestling promos.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Destroying an icon of extreme wealth and marking it with a traditional American motto isn't counter-productive. It's a substantial blow against Trump and what he stands for, sending the message that many Americans are willing to fight back against the repressions of his government. You are free to take issue with destruction of property, but these actions are not meaningless.

Cant wait for 2024 when Trump finally leaves the White House

 

[ClosingADoor]

http://www.progressillinois.com/sites/progressillinois.com/files/imagecache/content_scale/pi-images/humboldt_park_abandoned_hm_3.jpg

The working class knows exactly how it feels to have their property destroyed. Wall Street is much better at it than anarchists are.

And that is a reason for rioters to destroy more property from the working class?

 

[eizarus]

Other people have responded to the crux of your argument, but, a small aside...

"Limos being an icon of extreme wealth" is such an out of touch wealth fantasy. People with extreme wealth do not ride in limos anymore, it went out of fashion in the 1980s. Limos today are almost all reserved for middle and lower income weddings, bachelor parties, and proms.

The idea of limos representing wealth is something out of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous or a 1990 Million Dollar Man WWF promo. It's kind of similar to gold-encrusted furnishing representing extreme wealth... They're fads that went out of style in the 1980s, and mostly persist with people who aren't really wealthy but want to "look wealthy," and their conception of wealth is from 20-year-old professional wrestling promos.

This so much. They don't even come anywhere close to the same genre of luxury vehicles that the wealthy establishments use these days.

 

[Trojita]

When liberals are talking about peaceful protests, they're not talking about what Gandhi did, they're talking about doing things that don't inconvenience them and are approved by the state.

It's cute that you think throwing a molotov cocktail at a random person's car is contributing to any meaningful change.

 

[Caayn]

The working class knows exactly how it feels to have their property destroyed. Wall Street is much better at it than anarchists are.

That's like a child on the playground saying: I hit him because he hit me.

 

[Shmuppers]

This thread finally giving me hope for humanity-

When liberals are talking about peaceful protests, they're not talking about what Gandhi did, they're talking about doing things that don't inconvenience them and are approved by the state.

oh

 

[Askherserenity]

So you're saying it would've been okay if a white guy owned it?

No. That's what exactly what I'm not saying.

Quite high? What kind of a comment is this. Just because there's a lot of inequality, doesn't mean non-white people can't be or are not rich. This is someones property, would they like it if someone did something like that to their car?

I'm sick of wealth equality as well, but I don't go around torching peoples cars that are richer than me, because if someone did that to me, I'd be pissed.

I agree, if you are not white then you shouldn't be able to afford luxuries like cars, or food, or housing. Or anything really, pretty much nobody but white people should have any money at all tbh.

Guys, that's exactly the joke I was making.

I was implying that the protesters that did this were actually being racists in their own way.

What I was implying, fuck the people that did this and think it's OK. Fuck them for thinking it's OK because it would probably be owned by a white man and fuck them for thinking it would be owned by a white man.

I'm bad at sarcasm online I guess.

 

[KrellRell]

A bunch of dumb people doing hypocritical things. I don't like trump so imma burn your shit to the ground... ok

 

[TimeEffect]

Id like to know more of this person.

$70K sounds crippling.

 

[pirateluigi]

That's like a child on the playground saying: I hit him because he hit me.

Worse. It's like saying "I hit him because the big bully over there already hit him."

 

[GeordieMark]

The working class knows exactly how it feels to have their property destroyed. Wall Street is much better at it than anarchists are.

So therefore the working class destroying other working class people's property doesn't make much sense does it?

 

[Gutek]

That's like a child on the playground saying: I hit him because he hit me.

This thread is depressing.

This country is lost with people like you.

 

[God Dayumm]

Meanwhile Trump's tower keeps untouched

 

[Caayn]

This thread is depressing.

This country is lost with people like you.

Actually, reading this thread makes me glad to not be a citizen of the USA.

 

[orangutang]

When liberals are talking about peaceful protests, they're not talking about what Gandhi did, they're talking about doing things that don't inconvenience them and are approved by the state.

Don't you think this would apply better to the Richard Spencer punching thread and not y'know , limo burning?

 

[malingenie]

We really have become that which we hated two terms ago. Approving of death threats to Conway, approving the trolling a 10 year old kid, approving of property destruction, focusing on the size of a person's hands and the orange color of his skin.... you know how pissed of we would be if it was republicans doing this.

This administration scares the fuck out of me, but I am seeing a lot of the same shit we were disgusted about the tea party. Right in here. In NeoGAF.

You can be against this administration, go to rallies, educate yourself about legislation, organize. Find common ground with people. You can do all that without becoming an asshole. Look at Bernie's posts. He recognizes the common ground, and fights the injustices.

 

[pirateluigi]

This thread is depressing.

This country is lost with people like you.

There's a lot of room between "destroy random property" and "do nothing".

 

[John Kowalski]

Frankly i'm more taken by the feeling that even if these sorts of symbolic immolation things are strong catalysts for change, they are far too innocuous to actually produce change. It seems something far more severe would be required to create the opportunity to usurp the powers that be, something so violent and destructive that it would be far beyond anyone's measure of "morally dubious but required"qualifiers.

That said i am all for the destruction of politically potent imagery, especially by burning. Just not something that could potentially violate the physical integrity of other people.

 

[Abounder]

Bunch of violent dipshits, or as Obama callied the Baltimore rioters: thugs. Shit like this only hurts the average person and turns them against ya, but then again criminal opportunists aren't exactly political visionaries.

 

[Kinyou]

When liberals are talking about peaceful protests, they're not talking about what Gandhi did, they're talking about doing things that don't inconvenience them and are approved by the state.

So if people in Germany had burned random cars the nsdap would have never risen to the top? Good to know,

 

[ant_]

When liberals are talking about peaceful protests, they're not talking about what Gandhi did, they're talking about doing things that don't inconvenience them and are approved by the state.

During their rise to power, the Nazi party & Hitler used violence enacted against them for propaganda purposes. It improved their influence upon the people.

 

[kame-sennin]

And that is a reason for rioters to destroy more property from the working class?

So therefore the working class destroying other working class people's property doesn't make much sense does it?

A dude who owns a limo company is not working class.

That's like a child on the playground saying: I hit him because he hit me.

Did the bully stop?

 

[Ravensmash]

A dude who owns a limo company is not working class.



Did the bully stop?

I'll ask a slightly off tangent question - one that seemingly never gets answered.

What do you expect these current incidences to achieve?

What's the long game strategy that you believe will come of that?

 

[dh4niel]

Senseless violence never solved anything.

 

[kame-sennin]

This so much. They don't even come anywhere close to the same genre of luxury vehicles that the wealthy establishments use these days.

This thread is so bougie people are offended that anarchists think limos are high class.

Meanwhile Trump's tower keeps untouched

If people had managed to break through police lines and reach Trump tower (which has become a fortress since 11/9), you would complain about that too.

This thread finally giving me hope for humanity-

oh

Why are offended by a holocaust survivor saying he wished people would have smashed fascists before the war?

During their rise to power, the Nazi party & Hitler used violence enacted against them for propaganda purposes. It improved their influence upon the people.

But they survived those attacks. That's the point of the quote. Hitler obviously would have been unmoved by rational debate. He needed to be crushed before he seized total power. Maybe that would have happened if liberals had joined forces with German leftists and communists instead of criticizing street violence and trying to keep Germany "unified".

Like, the defining quality of liberal ideology is the refusal to learn lessons.

Frankly i'm more taken by the feeling that even if these sorts of symbolic immolation things are strong catalysts for change, they are far too innocuous to actually produce change. It seems something far more severe would be required to create the opportunity to usurp the powers that be, something so violent and destructive that it would be far beyond anyone's measure of "morally dubious but required"qualifiers.

That said i am all for the destruction of politically potent imagery, especially by burning. Just not something that could potentially violate the physical integrity of other people.

I would agree with this.

 

[Trouble]

A dude who owns a limo company is not working class.

What the fuck is this shit? You thinking running a small limo business suddenly makes someone wealthy? Most of these types of companies are family businesses and they sink everything they own into them.

 

[pirateluigi]

What the fuck is this shit? You thinking running a small limo business suddenly makes someone wealthy? Most of these types of companies are family businesses and they sink everything they own into them.

Even if he is wealthy, and that's a big if, the limo driver sure as hell isn't.

 

[kame-sennin]

I'll ask a slightly off tangent question - one that seemingly never gets answered.

What do you expect these current incidences to achieve?

What's the long game strategy that you believe will come of that?

Rioting isn't my preferred strategy, but the general idea is that riots, mass demonstrations, and general strikes continue on a regular basis. The numbers grow (as they have been, seemingly undeterred by the malevolent black bloc) and cities begin to have difficulty functioning. Eventually, civil society begins to grind to a halt and the government is forced to capitulate. This happened on a very small scale in the Ukraine in 2014 and it still managed to oust Putin-backed President Yanukovych. Other examples include Egypt and Tunisia during the Arab Spring, the First Intifada in 1987, and Russia in 1917. I discussed this earlier in the thread.

 

[pirateluigi]

Rioting isn't my preferred strategy, but the general idea is that riots, mass demonstrations, and general strikes continue on a regular basis. The numbers grow (as they have been, seemingly undeterred by the malevolent black bloc) and cities begin to have difficulty functioning. Eventually, civil society begins to grind to a halt and the government is forced to capitulate. This happened on a very small scale in the Ukraine in 2014 and it still managed to oust Putin-backed President Yanukovych. Other examples include Egypt and Tunisia during the Arab Spring, the First Intifada in 1987, and Russia in 1917. I discussed this earlier in the thread.

I'm at work so these numbers are pulled from Wikipedia, so I apologize if they're incorrect:
Ukraine 2014: 780 dead and missing
Arab Spring: hundreds of thousands of casualties
Russia 1917: 1443 dead
First Intifada: 2200 dead

 

[kame-sennin]

I'm at work so these numbers are pulled from Wikipedia, so I apologize if they're incorrect:
Ukraine 2014: 780 dead and missing
Arab Spring: hundreds of thousands of casualties
Russia 1917: 1443 dead
First Intifada: 2200 dead

He asked me how these movements work.

 

[ClosingADoor]

A dude who owns a limo company is not working class.

Small business owners are not working class? So the farmer working his fields is not working class? The cafe owner working 7 days a week is not working class? The bookstore owner is not working class?

What kind of nonsense is this. And what about the driver who was INSIDE the limo when they set it on fire?

Edit: also, I can buy a damn limousine for not even $30.000. So high class.

 

[kame-sennin]

Small business owners are not working class? So the farmer working his fields is not working class? The cafe owner working 7 days a week is not working class? The bookstore owner is not working class?

What kind of nonsense is this.

Working class means wage labor. If you profit off the labor of employees, you are a capitalist. These are basic definitions. It's not complicated.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Working class means wage labor. If you profit off the labor of employees, you are a capitalist. These are basic definitions. It's not complicated.

You know where this stuff gets funny? I own my own business. I am also employed by my own business, I take in a set salary each month. Am I now working class or not?

If you are a plumber doing manual labor all day, but for your own company. Are you now working class or not? I'd argue you are.

It is clear you are trying to frame this situation as not bad, because it is the rich guy paying the bill. Meanwhile forgetting that it a) might not be a rich guy at all b) the people doing the arson did not know who the owner was, it might as well be an uber driver with a limo and c) there was a driver (from the working class) in the limo at the time they attacked it.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

This is a strategy that has been used successfully in Russia, Palestine, Ukraine

Yeahhhh I think we have a different idea of "successful"...

Resist Trump and everything he stands for, but don't you dare violate norms of property

"Resisting Trump" by hurting a middle class Muslim man. Yeah, you sure showed him!

Neogaf. The alt-.reality world where words are violence, but torching someones car isn't.

Now now, don't generalize NeoGAF like that, most posters in this thread agree this is stupid.

I'm sure that really comforts the millions of workers packed in like sardines in Chinese factories.

And I'm sure they would love to go back to how things were before when it was even worse. What the hell is your point?

To be fair, GAF is Hillary left. They are totally down with centrist neo-liberalism.

While women are going to be stripped of rights, racists appointed to the highest offices, Muslims put on lists, and DREAMERS deported, GAF will get angry at protesters and people punching Nazis in the face.

This is some alt-reality nonsense. You're acting as if folks on NeoGAF are indifferent or happy about women being stripped of their rights and Trump being elected. Like... what? Moreover, the thread about the nazi being punched showed overwhelming support for the punching, with a minority going "assault is always wrong".

But sure, don't let facts get in the way of your "NeoGAF is a neocon's wet dream" delusion, I guess.

I'm bad at sarcasm online I guess.

FWIW I understood your line to be sarcastic, if only because I read what preceded it. Don't worry about it.

You know where this stuff gets funny? I own my own business. I am also employed by my own business, I take in a set salary each month. Am I now working class or not?

If you are a plumber doing manual labor all day, but for your own company. Are you now working class or not? I'd argue you are.

It is clear you are trying to frame this situation as not bad, because it is the rich guy paying the bill. Meanwhile forgetting that it a) might not be a rich guy at all b) the people doing the arson did not know who the owner was, it might as well be an uber driver with a limo and c) there was a driver (from the working class) in the limo at the time they attacked it.

Shhhhh GTFO with your "facts" and "logic"

 

[Valhelm]

I'll ask a slightly off tangent question - one that seemingly never gets answered.

What do you expect these current incidences to achieve?

What's the long game strategy that you believe will come of that?

Anarchists action often amounts to propaganda of the deed -- symbolic violence meant to inculcate revolutionary sentiment among the working class at large. In Catalonia and Ukraine, anarchist violence successfully overthrow capitalist governments and led to the establishment of libertarian socialist societies. In the US, Latin America, and the rest of Europe, anarchists failed. Their violence did not spark revolution, and instead gave conservative governments a pretense for imprisoning leftists en masse and bringing working-class organizations to heel.

I am not an anarchist and I'm not sure if this kind of direct action is effective. But I'll be damned before I side with the bourgeois establishment in condemning these protesters for not being as polite as property owners would prefer.

 

[iamblades]

This thread is depressing.

This country is lost with people like you.

I agree, but for probably the opposite reasoning, judging by the context of this comment.

As for the topic at hand, these kinds of black bloc douchebags have been soiling the good name of anarchism for far too long, and it's kind of embarassing that people are willing to openly defend them.

 

[T.O.P]

Actually, reading this thread makes me glad to not be a citizen of the USA.

The only thing i ever get out of this kind of threads is that lmao

 

[Fuchsdh]

Anarchists action often amounts to propaganda of the deed -- symbolic violence meant to inculcate revolutionary sentiment among the working class at large. In Catalonia and Ukraine, anarchist violence successfully overthrow capitalist governments and led to the establishment of libertarian socialist societies. In the US, Latin America, and the rest of Europe, anarchists failed. Their violence did not spark revolution, and instead gave conservative governments a pretense for imprisoning leftists en masse and bringing working-class organizations to heel.

I am not an anarchist and I'm not sure if this kind of direct action is effective. But I'll be damned before I side with the bourgeois establishment in condemning these protesters for not being as polite as property owners would prefer.

How was the Ukraine Revolution anarchist in any way, shape, or form? They overthrew the Russian-aligned head executive to create a more EU-aligned government. You know, keeping the state.