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[Kelthink]

Which area? Someone was stabbed in mine (Notts). Said not to be
Bottom line for me is, there are a lot of disenfranchised people with nothing to look forward to that we need to take care of. These scum are not those people.

Why not? What do we do with them? Jail them until the next lot come along? Welp, the prisons are full, that didn't work.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Three men died when they were hit by a car in Birmingham - locals claimed they were protecting their neighbourhood.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14460554

Makes me feel sick to the core

 

[Salazar]

Why not? What do we do with them?

Tie their welfare to skills training and get some infrastructure built.

 

[Your Excellency]

Why can't we only give out unemployment benefits if people do community work like cleaning parks, etc? What's the problem with this?

 

[SmokyDave]

Why not? What do we do with them?

I have an answer, but you don't want to hear it.

Tie their welfare to skills training and get some infrastructure built.

Assuming you can force them to attend the training. Good luck!

Why can't we only give out unemployment benefits if people do community work like cleaning parks, etc? What's the problem with this?

Because they refuse to work and if we remove their benefits, they'll riot as we sleep. We're being held to ransom.

 

[SteveWD40]

Cameron talking at 10:30, I expect a whole lot of nothing.

He should come out and say "Rubber Bullets and Gas tonight bitches"

I fear this isn't just going to stop, why would chavs country wide decide that free shit and fighting is boring? They have been emboldened big time...

 

[Aad]

Is BBC News Live a recorded loop for anyone else, hoping to watch the PMs speech on this.

 

[Salazar]

Assuming you can force them to attend the training. Good luck!

Well, I assume that every proposition regresses to the idea that they'll do (only and whatever) what they want innit.

I guess I am at a loss, without despotic powers.

 

[Mikeside]

You know who's disenfranchised?

Me.

I don't have a religion-based community to belong to. I'm not in a gang. I can't stand behind my community 'leaders', because there aren't any. I can't band together with others of my ethnicity because the only ones doing that are skinheads or rioters. I know that NONE of the political parties will echo MY voice, will fight for MY demands or are aligned with MY values.

Maybe it's time I just tore shit up, eh?

Yeah, I feel very much the same as you (except for the last part, but I'm assuming that's a joke) - it's fortunate that we've obviously been raised better than these kids and we have a stronger sense of morality (there are obviously other factors, but getting bogged down in that isn't going to help my point)

With regards to what you've said in this post, society has failed us too - we shouldn't feel unrepresented or set aside from mainstream society and we really should have grown up with a stronger sense of connection to our communities and a stronger sense of belonging.
Our problems are different (or have manifested differently) from those rioting - but they're problems of society nonetheless and it's exactly why there needs to be a big change.

 

[SteveWD40]

Is BBC News Live a recorded loop for anyone else, hoping to watch the PMs speech on this.

Pushed back to 11am I think.

 

[Neo Child]

This is nuts. Wheres the goddamn Batman when you need him?

 

[dalyr95]

Click the BBC TV Live tab underneath the video

 

[Kentpaul]

Why can't we only give out unemployment benefits if people do community work like cleaning parks, etc? What's the problem with this?

When i couldn't find a job for a while i was made to do some unpaid work, the people who were working there officially were getting 300+ a week, while i was only getting 50 a week.



outrage.

Its an excuse for people to exploit people

 

[DominoKid]

So is this expected to end anytime soon?

 

[Zenith]

When i couldn't find a job for a while i was made to do some unpaid work, the people who were working there officially were getting 300+ a week, while i was only getting 50 a week.



outrage.

Its an excuse for people to exploit people

You were quite vocal in your intention to stay on the dole as long as possible, and that even a job of helping 5 people mow grass that consisted of you standing around smoking weed was "too tough". You're the one exploiting people.

 

[Kentpaul]

So is this expected to end anytime soon?

No, once Manchester arms up with lots of police, it will just pop up in another city.

edit

vigilante Sikhs, big fleets of turks, fuck england is awesome

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Why can't we only give out unemployment benefits if people do community work like cleaning parks, etc? What's the problem with this?

Yup. Link benefits to voluntary work. Any person who doesn't appear for their mandatory 10 hours of volunteering per week doesn't receive any of their benefits (i.e. anyone in council funded housing will have to do it or face eviction).

 

[Gaaraz]

http://twitpic.com/63kvp8

 

[Joel Was Right]

Is it possible to draw some sort of distinction between those looting and those who went out there to commit violence and destroy property? I could understand why someone from a council estate may want to take advantage of the situation of a lack of policing and head off to JD Sports to get those trainers or get a phone, but walking around with bricks, smashing windows and hurting people - that seems quite different

 

[Vagabundo]

When i couldn't find a job for a while i was made to do some unpaid work, the people who were working there officially were getting 300+ a week, while i was only getting 50 a week.



outrage.

Its an excuse for people to exploit people

You were being paid though. Hardly unpaid or you wouldn't have been doing it.

There is no harm in getting people on the dole out to do community stuff, intern ships, training, whatever, when there is not a lot of jobs out there. It can lead to opportunities and gives you something productive to say in interviews.

 

[Kentpaul]

You were being paid though. Hardly unpaid or you wouldn't have been doing it.

There is no harm in getting people on the dole out to do community stuff, intern ships, training, whatever, when there is not a lot of jobs out there. It can lead to opportunities and gives you something productive to say in interviews.

Its all fun and games until you notice the people already working at the company's they put you in are making 300+ a week, and your doing the exact same job as them. (and getting paid 50,60.)

it really does suck.

sucks so bad.

 

[MarshMellow96]

I'm currently working as an intern for a local charity. I'm not getting paid anything, but the people around me are.

Sucks.

Sucks so bad.

 

[Your Excellency]

Is it possible to draw some sort of distinction between those looting and those who went out there to commit violence and destroy property? I could understand why someone from a council estate may want to take advantage of the situation of a lack of policing and head off to JD Sports to get those trainers or get a phone, but walking around with bricks, smashing windows and hurting people - that seems quite different

People who are being arrested will be charged with a specific offence. Mostly burglary.

 

[Kentpaul]

Best way to deal with these youths is the

Make a society, find a big area were you can mine rock, cut forests near by, and let everyone mine the rock, cut down the tree's and build big awesome villages n shit for them selfs.

 

[iapetus]

You know who's disenfranchised?

Me.

I don't have a religion-based community to belong to. I'm not in a gang. I can't stand behind my community 'leaders', because there aren't any. I can't band together with others of my ethnicity because the only ones doing that are skinheads or rioters. I know that NONE of the political parties will echo MY voice, will fight for MY demands or are aligned with MY values.

Maybe it's time I just tore shit up, eh?

Ah, the hard life of the white middle-class nonsectarian. Is it time for the not-particularly-downtrodden masses to rise up?

 

[dalyr95]

What we need to do is get these assholes educated. During my time in retail I interviewed enough of them, you wouldn't hire them even if they were going to cut your balls off. Lacking basic English/math skills and a clear attitude of "I don't give a fuck", they're more trouble than they're worth.

We need to tie their benefits to going back to school and learning basic skills that will at least make them employable. If they don't achieve the grades and make progress, their benefits get cut, simple as. Put something in, get something out. Otherwise fuck off and survive by yourself.

 

[Prine]

Uh OH. They have killed 2 muslims in Birmingham. The rioters are already Dead. The beast has been awoken and the rioters will now wish their mothers never bore them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyA-PYPWOOU&feature=player_embedded

That was hard to watch I hope the locals there don't act recklessly, morph into rioters looking for blood. Given how stretched the services are it could be nasty.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Its all fun and games until you notice the people already working at the company's they put you in are making 300+ a week, and your doing the exact same job as them. (and getting paid 50,60.)

it really does suck.

sucks so bad.

It is supposed to suck, so you get a job more quickly.

 

[powersurge]

I'm surprised they haven't deployed the Army at this point. I know if this was going on here in the states many people would be demanding that the National Guard be deployed. I honestly have no problem with lethal force being used to put a stop to this. They are destroying people's livelihoods, assaults, murder, etc.. I'm just in complete shock that thus far it seems all they are doing is sending out these poor policemen armed with batons and shields.

 

[dalyr95]

Its all fun and games until you notice the people already working at the company's they put you in are making 300+ a week, and your doing the exact same job as them. (and getting paid 50,60.)

it really does suck.

sucks so bad.

Not really, they should be paid more because they actually bothered to do something about their situation and not sit on an internet forum bitching about how useless they are.

 

[iapetus]

When i couldn't find a job for a while i was made to do some unpaid work, the people who were working there officially were getting 300+ a week, while i was only getting 50 a week.

Good. Sounds like some more incentive to get a job.

Assuming you can force them to attend the training. Good luck!

That's the meaning of 'tie', surely? No training, no benefits. Now the only problem is forcing them to pay attention. The obvious suggestion is martial arts training. If they don't pay attention, they get beaten up.

 

[SmokyDave]

Ah, the hard life of the white middle-class nonsectarian. Is it time for the not-particularly-downtrodden masses to rise up?

Your dismissive and patronising tone kinda reinforces my point.

I appreciate the assumption I'm middle-class though, it shows that some of us hood-rats really do rise above it.

That's the meaning of 'tie', surely? No training, no benefits. Now the only problem is forcing them to pay attention. The obvious suggestion is martial arts training. If they don't pay attention, they get beaten up.

If you want this disorder to double in size and intensity, try removing benefits.

They will not work. At that point you either bribe them with benefits or we watch more buildings burn.

 

[Queen of Hunting]

raped happend at star lane which is near orpington. known to be a very dangerous place and people get stabbed there all the time or beaten up for no reason.

 

[Mikeside]

Its all fun and games until you notice the people already working at the company's they put you in are making 300+ a week, and your doing the exact same job as them. (and getting paid 50,60.)

it really does suck.

sucks so bad.

You couldn't get a job on your own, so you were given one where you're earning less - but the critical point is that you're still fully able to go out and look for another job to improve your situation.

All they've done is given you something temporary to get by on - you're £50 a week better off AND you're getting job experience. Don't be ungrateful, you're fully able to build upon that and make a better life for yourself - it's a kick start.

They COULD have just left you rotting on the dole, you know.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

You know who's disenfranchised?

Me.

I don't have a religion-based community to belong to. I'm not in a gang. I can't stand behind my community 'leaders', because there aren't any. I can't band together with others of my ethnicity because the only ones doing that are skinheads or rioters. I know that NONE of the political parties will echo MY voice, will fight for MY demands or are aligned with MY values.

Maybe it's time I just tore shit up, eh?

This.

We live in a society full of people who expect others to do everything for them. They are egotistical and entitled brats who won't lift a finger to help themselves.

 

[FreeMufasa]

Its good to see people standing up for their neighborhoods but those 3 killed for it is damn tragic.

Good thing I am not in charge. After that I would be lifting restrictions left and right on the police. Bring out the rubber bullets etc. No more games

Wait.......3 people have died now?

 

[Prine]

Its all fun and games until you notice the people already working at the company's they put you in are making 300+ a week, and your doing the exact same job as them. (and getting paid 50,60.)

it really does suck.

sucks so bad.

Then go and apply? Use it as motivation to get off the dole and aspire for more? There's always options.

 

[Seep]

It would appear some bell end tried to ram raid my local post office last night with a JCB but only succeeded in destroying parked cars and getting his dumb arse arrested.

 

[Mikeside]

This.

We live in a society full of people who expect others to do everything for them. They are egotistical and entitled brats who won't lift a finger to help themselves.

The whole point is that they HAVE done something to help their situations. The question is why do they think this is what they want to put their efforts into?
If they believed that they could grow up to be productive members of society and have the luxury German car and expensive leather sofas, I'm sure they wouldn't be so keen to throw it all away fucking their cities up and getting themselves arrested.

Of course, I admit that there's always a small minority who really can't be helped, but let's not be blinded to the bigger problems aside from them.

 

[Kentpaul]

You couldn't get a job on your own, so you were given one where you're earning less - but the critical point is that you're still fully able to go out and look for another job to improve your situation.

All they've done is given you something temporary to get by on - you're £50 a week better off AND you're getting job experience. Don't be ungrateful, you're fully able to build upon that and make a better life for yourself - it's a kick start.

They COULD have just left you rotting on the dole, you know.

Me and a dude did build a set of steps right up the side of a grass hill with no training at all.. so it was pretty great.

edit, not so fun when new people join and they sit in the break room withdrawing from heroin/benzo's (shaking, sweating, ect)

its pretty inhumane at times, but hey i did get 2 references from it that help me get the job i have now.

 

[Funky Papa]

The Spanish left is playing the "discontent youth" angle to the highest level. Any louder and I'll get deaf.

Bleeding heart morons.

 

[mokeyjoe]

I thought there were already work-search commitments? I know there used to be, and every week or two you had to say what jobs you applied for. Was very, very easy to get around though.

I've not been unemployed in the UK. I understand that there probably are requirements of that kind, but, as you say and as one can reasonably deduce, they're not really working as well as they might.

I've not been unemployed in the UK. I understand that there probably are requirements of that kind, but, as you say and as one can reasonably deduce, they're not really working as well as they might.

I've got a permanent job now but after being made redundant a couple of years ago I dodged between various temp work and periods of unemplyment. You have to go in every 2 weeks with a record of your efforts to look for a job, it should be a minimum of 5 actions a week (applications, enquiries etc) and the advisor there reviews it and signs you off. Jobseekers allowance is about £50 a week depending on age. You can claim it for up to 6 months continuously, after which point it gets reviewed and you have to go in on a weekly basis and show more evidence or your benefit will be stopped.

I was also able to claim (means tested) housing benefit which worked out about £60 a week. Altogether therefore, while unemployed I was getting about £110 a week, so £440 a month. I pay £300 a month rent, so plus bills it didn't leave me much, if anything, to live off. I needed to find work where and when I could and saving like fuck in order to cover the times I would be out of work.

I think the only way that people can have any sort of reasonable life on benefits is by gaming the system - disability, child benefit etc. The trouble with clamping down on this is that you affect the most vulnerable people in society as well. I really don't think Jobseekers could be any lower. I found it virtually impossible to live off TBH, fortunately I've got a great job now so the whole thing's behind me.

 

[Carbonox]

Some petrol bombs were thrown in a part of town not too far from me, last night. A car went up in flames right outside the owner's house.

Really didn't expect it to hit Herts. Can't remember the last time a car was set on fire in my town but these riots clearly inspired this particular one. The area is full of chavs as well, conveniently.

 

[Bleepey]

The Ipod (I think) looks out of place as well.

Sometimes you have to beat a motherfucker down with a soundtrack.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Ah, the hard life of the white middle-class nonsectarian. Is it time for the not-particularly-downtrodden masses to rise up?

Yup, about sums up the dismissive attitude of this country, air perfectly reasonable concerns and get the piss taken out of you.

Salazar, where are those tickets mate.

 

[Strummerjones]

Yup. Link benefits to voluntary work. Any person who doesn't appear for their mandatory 10 hours of volunteering per week doesn't receive any of their benefits (i.e. anyone in council funded housing will have to do it or face eviction).

As someone who has actually worked in the third sector, this is completely unworkable. At the moment there is unprecedented demand and competition for volunteering positions amongst people who often have extremely impressive careers/academic backgrounds because these people cannot find work. If you've got multiple people with degrees etc scrambling to do basic data entry/befriending old people etc, why would you put a bunch of known useless/violent scumbags into those roles?

Even if there wasn't demand for voluntary positions, why would charities and voluntary groups want some workshy dickhead working for them? A lot of these groups rely on good people helping out to survive, and they don't need someone who will a) do no bleeding work b) need constant supervision and/or have no useful skills c) may be untrustworthy/steal shit.

Organising groups of people - especially people who don't even want to be there - costs huge amounts of money and needs expenditure on infrastructure. The fantasy that this shit "just gets done" is the backbone of Cameron's Big Society, and reality has shown that places just close down instead.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

So the jokes have started at work. I was sick for the past 2 days, and not in work..being one of only 2 black people in the office I got the usual "flashy trainers, get them in the riot"..

Im borderline crazy..so one of these motherfuckers are gonna make me snap lol

 

[SmokyDave]

The whole point is that they HAVE done something to help their situations. The question is why do they think this is what they want to put their efforts into?
If they believed that they could grow up to be productive members of society and have the luxury German car and expensive leather sofas, I'm sure they wouldn't be so keen to throw it all away fucking their cities up and getting themselves arrested.

Of course, I admit that there's always a small minority who really can't be helped, but let's not be blinded to the bigger problems aside from them.

I've worked for the last 15 years and I don't believe that I'll ever own a luxury German car or an expensive leather sofa. That's a harsh reality of life, not an excuse.

 

[Furret]

Some petrol bombs were thrown in a part of town not too far from me, last night. A car went up in flames right outside the owner's house.

Really didn't expect it to hit Herts. Can't remember the last time a car was set on fire in my town but these riots clearly inspired this particular one. The area is full of chavs as well, conveniently.

Which town?

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

The whole point is that they HAVE done something to help their situations. The question is why do they think this is what they want to put their efforts into?
If they believed that they could grow up to be productive members of society and have the luxury German car and expensive leather sofas, I'm sure they wouldn't be so keen to throw it all away fucking their cities up and getting themselves arrested.

Of course, I admit that there's always a small minority who really can't be helped, but let's not be blinded to the bigger problems aside from them.

They pull everyone down and demand everyone else serves them. They can go fuck themselves.

They loot and destroy then DEMAND respect. That is their attitude.