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[iapetus]

I think they're going to have to consider arming their police force.

Remind me what sparked this whole thing in the first place?

 

[Salazar]

I've worked for the last 15 years and I don't believe that I'll ever own a luxury German car or an expensive leather sofa. That's a harsh reality of life, not an excuse.

I understand a desire for the luxury car, but leather sofas, however expensive, tantalise me not a jot.

I think arming the police is ante-upping. More criminals will arm themselves in response.

 

[justjohn]

So the jokes have started at work. I was sick for the past 2 days, and not in work..being one of only 2 black people in the office I got the usual "flashy trainers, get them in the riot"..

Im borderline crazy..so one of these motherfuckers are gonna make me snap lol

no offence but judging from your posts you sound really pathetic.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Remind me what sparked this whole thing in the first place?

Opportunism and a disproportionate sense of entitlement?

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

@DaveHill: YouGov riot poll published: http://t.co/Gj7gIJe Not good for Tories. Nearly all Boris responses pre. y'day Clapham heckling #LondonRiots

Majority of those polled support water cannon (LOL), tear gas, tasers, rubber bullets and using the army.

http://t.co/Gj7gIJe

Let's fucking DO THIS.

 

[Ponti]

So the jokes have started at work. I was sick for the past 2 days, and not in work..being one of only 2 black people in the office I got the usual "flashy trainers, get them in the riot"..

Im borderline crazy..so one of these motherfuckers are gonna make me snap lol

Sure it's a race thing and not the fact you've been absent for two days?

 

[SmokyDave]

I understand a desire for the luxury car, but leather sofas, however expensive, tantalise me not a jot.

I think arming the police is ante-upping. More criminals will arm themselves in response.

Crims already started firing at police. Escalation to firearms use is inevitable at this point. Even if we just left them to it, there'd come a point when the thrill of looting wore off and the stakes needed raising.

Our complete inability to tackle this issue will cost lives on both sides before long.

Opportunism and a disproportionate sense of entitlement?

Amen.

 

[Ark]

1102: Nine out of 10 British adults say police should be able to be use water cannon on rioters and one third support use of live ammunition, according to a YouGov poll of 2,534 British adults for the Sun.

I wish people would it get it around their heads that water cannon simply just wont work.

I'm becoming increasing supportive of using rubber pellets and gas, but it's a bad idea.

 

[Salazar]

no offence but judging from your posts you sound really pathetic.

This single post gives a much worse impression of you than any of Mecha_Infantry's posts do of him.

 

[iapetus]

Your dismissive and patronising tone kinda reinforces my point.

I appreciate the assumption I'm middle-class though, it shows that some of us hood-rats really do rise above it.

NeoGAF membership carries with it an automatic promotion to middle class status. That's something you can only get here or by regularly listening to Radio 4.

I'm dismissive because it's an attitude that deserves to be dismissed. You're no more disenfranchised than pretty much anyone else in this country, and a whole load less than a hell of a lot of other people - including many of those participating in the riots.

They will not work. At that point you either bribe them with benefits or we watch more buildings burn.

In a suitably totalitarian society you could do something about that, of course. Of course, the downside to that is that only I am qualified to be the leader of such a totalitarian society. Anyone else would be corrupted by the power.

 

[FreeMufasa]

Why can't we only give out unemployment benefits if people do community work like cleaning parks, etc? What's the problem with this?

Problem is what jobs can we give them which won't affect those in official government jobs? Street cleaners for example. If the government can get 2 people to clean streets for £50 a week, I don't see the incentive to keep a proper street cleaner.

 

[Furret]

I wish people would it get it around their heads that water cannon simply just wont work.

I'm becoming increasing supportive of using rubber pellets and gas, but it's a bad idea.

I don't think people care whether water cannons work or not, they just want to see the rioters to face a serious physical threat.

Rubber bullets, live ammo, cybernetic tigers, it doesn't matter what it is.

 

[iapetus]

I understand a desire for the luxury car, but leather sofas, however expensive, tantalise me not a jot.

I have a cheap leather sofa. It's horrible. I preferred the £50 pink fabric monstrosity I got from a house clearance shop.

I wish people would it get it around their heads that water cannon simply just wont work.

It was great to see a senior policeman smacking down this idea on the BBC News coverage last night. Couldn't have been more dismissive of people who thought it was a workable idea, except possibly if they'd suggested unloading live rounds into the crowd at random.

 

[Phat Michael]

Boss

what is this from? I havent been following the news. if thats real its just hilarious and comical.

 

[SmokyDave]

NeoGAF membership carries with it an automatic promotion to middle class status. That's something you can only get here or by regularly listening to Radio 4.

I'm dismissive because it's an attitude that deserves to be dismissed. You're no more disenfranchised than pretty much anyone else in this country, and a whole load less than a hell of a lot of other people - including many of those participating in the riots.

I disagree with you but the bolded bit was the point I'm making, inverted. These scum are no more or less disenfranchised than most of us.

In a suitably totalitarian society you could do something about that, of course.

Let's see where we end up once it's clear that the liberal left don't understand this situation and have no real solutions to offer.

 

[SteveWD40]

Yeah thats right Cameron, all about London isn't it, dick.

 

[Salazar]

In a suitably totalitarian society you could do something about that, of course.

I'm hoping we could engage in some Sorites paradox sophistry about what constitutes totalitarianism. We could get a lot done before we agreed that what we were doing was bestial.

 

[Your Excellency]

Leather sofas are overrated.

 

[Kentpaul]

He looks pissed off, how unprofessional.

 

[Turnstyle]

Some petrol bombs were thrown in a part of town not too far from me, last night. A car went up in flames right outside the owner's house.

Really didn't expect it to hit Herts. Can't remember the last time a car was set on fire in my town but these riots clearly inspired this particular one. The area is full of chavs as well, conveniently.

I'm in Herts too. Where was this?

 

[Nuborn]

full legal backing for police to smash faces in!

 

[SteveWD40]

Right, so the Police are off the leash?

Good , Baton Rounds and Water Cannons (not as useful).

 

[Chaos]

Rioters trying to flee

http://youtu.be/i1b74BdPfSQ

 

[Antagon]

what is this from? I havent been following the news. if thats real its just hilarious and comical.

A group of Sikhs defending their temple.

 

[iapetus]

Let's see where we end up once it's clear that the liberal left don't understand this situation and have no real solutions to offer.

The idea that this is a singular problem is where oversimplification makes people jump to stupid conclusions. There's a whole range of problems around the area of benefits, and it's next to impossible to cover them all. You're going to end up punishing the innocent or letting the sort of people who end up looting get a free ride.

The thing no government is likely to tell you is that doing the work required to deal with the worst of the benefit scroungers and cheats in such a way that you don't also fuck over huge numbers of people who are doing nothing wrong other than being poor and unlucky is probably more expensive than just continuing to let them get away with it.

 

[Salazar]

Rioters trying to flee

http://youtu.be/i1b74BdPfSQ

You're actually rather vulnerable on a bicycle if you can't exploit its potential speed.

 

[SteveWD40]

Yeah Dave and left the Police in other areas understaffed.

 

[Mikeside]

I've worked for the last 15 years and I don't believe that I'll ever own a luxury German car or an expensive leather sofa. That's a harsh reality of life, not an excuse.

ARGH I KEEP SAYING IT ISN'T AN EXCUSE.

 

[JonCha]

Glad to see Cameron is ignoring the people who claim the human rights mumbo jumbo.

 

[Your Excellency]

Nick Robinson: "What is the cure?"

Cameron: "Crime is a disease. I'm the cure"

 

[iapetus]

I disagree with you but the bolded bit was the point I'm making, inverted. These scum are no more or less disenfranchised than most of us.

<shrug> Everyone thinks they're more disenfranchised than they are, I guess.

The thing is, how disenfranchised these people are on the SmokeyDave Scale of Disenfranchisement is pretty much irrelevant. You can probably count the number of them who are acting in this way because of their lack of ability to make an impact through traditional political methods rather than because they just want to smash shit up and get some free XBox games on the fingers of one foot. Which I suspect we agree on.

 

[SteveWD40]

Glad to see Cameron is ignoring the people who claim the human rights mumbo jumbo.

One of the few times I am glad we have Torys in, they don't play that shit.

 

[Furret]

what is this from? I havent been following the news. if thats real its just hilarious and comical.

What a vile and patronising thing to say.

I say give 'em all medals.

 

[iapetus]

Opportunism and a disproportionate sense of entitlement?

Wrong. Try again, concentrating on the word 'sparked' this time.

 

[SmokyDave]

The idea that this is a singular problem is where oversimplification makes people jump to stupid conclusions. There's a whole range of problems around the area of benefits, and it's next to impossible to cover them all. You're going to end up punishing the innocent or letting the sort of people who end up looting get a free ride.

The thing no government is likely to tell you is that doing the work required to deal with the worst of the benefit scroungers and cheats in such a way that you don't also fuck over huge numbers of people who are doing nothing wrong other than being poor and unlucky is probably more expensive than just continuing to let them get away with it.

More expensive in terms of money, maybe. Social cohesion is the real price we're paying, not cash.

The cash side of things is completely and utterly unsustainable though. It was before the millions and millions of pounds that these riots will cost us, directly and indirectly.

Wrong. Try again, concentrating on the word 'sparked' this time.

Opportunism. Sparked by the peaceful protest that was sparked by the shooting.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

The Spanish left is playing the "discontent youth" angle to the highest level. Any louder and I'll get deaf.

Bleeding heart morons.

Some of the employment and education statistics Sky News showed yesterday comparing the areas hit with those that were not would give credence to this

 

[Ark]

The problem isn't in the people and it isn't in the riots, or even the police.

There's a fundamental problem with society that has just been growing and growing for years, and it'll take even longer to fix it.

 

[Mikeside]

One of the few times I am glad we have Torys in, they don't play that shit.

When we see Maggie back, we'll know they mean business.

 

[Mikeside]

The problem isn't in the people and it isn't in the riots, or even the police.

There's a fundamental problem with society that has just been growing and growing for years, and it'll take even longer to fix it.

Thank you.


edit: Oops, sorry for double post.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

Sure it's a race thing and not the fact you've been absent for two days?

Ha, my sarcasm meter is kicking off...but trust me, the things that are said in this work place might make you understand where I'm coming from!

This single post gives a much worse impression of you than any of Mecha_Infantry's posts do of him.

Werd.

 

[iapetus]

So the jokes have started at work.

Did you see that Tottenham have signed a new Italian striker, Grabatelli?

They're topical, but they're not good.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

PM David Cameron, in statement in Downing Street, pays tribute to police and emergency services. "Picture by picture" these criminals are being arrested, and they will not let "phoney" concerns about publishing CCTV images breaching human rights get in the way, he says.

 

[iapetus]

More expensive in terms of money, maybe. Social cohesion is the real price we're paying, not cash.

It's all going to come down to the cash at some point. Of course, social cohesion does have a monetary value, but it's one that's easy to push back rather than making unpopular and expensive decisions that need to be made, but will just lose you the next election.

The cash side of things is completely and utterly unsustainable though. It was before the millions and millions of pounds that these riots will cost us, directly and indirectly.

Our current political system encourages relatively short-term thinking. This is exacerbated by certain elements in the media.

Opportunism. Sparked by the peaceful protest that was sparked by the shooting.

Opportunism didn't spark anything. It's part of the underlying cause.

 

[spiderman123]

PM David Cameron, in statement in Downing Street, pays tribute to police and emergency services. "Picture by picture" these criminals are being arrested, and they will not let "phoney" concerns about publishing CCTV images breaching human rights get in the way, he says.

good

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Wrong. Try again, concentrating on the word 'sparked' this time.

Oh, right... the "shooting"? They don't give a fuck. All the looters saw the police doing nothing and other people getting "free stuff" and being the sociopaths that they are they demanded the same.

Do you think they would do this without the sense of entitlement? That is the root cause of all of this behaviour.

They are not doing it for any particular reason. They'll steal your stuff and burn your house down "for a laugh" then when they're interviewed they'll claim they're doing it to "show the police that they can".

 

[Zenith]

Let's see where we end up once it's clear that the liberal left don't understand this situation and have no real solutions to offer.

Right, 'cause only right-wingers could solve this. The self-styled "party of law and order" has done jack shit.

 

[Mikeside]

Oh, right... the "shooting"? They don't give a fuck. All the looters saw the police doing nothing and other people getting "free stuff" and being the sociopaths that they are they demanded the same.

There's really no denying that the shooting (why have you put that in quotes? They shot him and that isn't up for debate, it's a fact - it's the moments surrounding it that's murky) sparked it.

Whether they actually care about the shooting or not (they don't) is irrelevant. It sparked the chain of events.

 

[Funky Papa]

Right, 'cause only right-wingers could solve this. The self-styled "party of law and order" has done jack shit.

It's undeniably true that most if not all of the bleeding hearts asking for compassion and understanding come from the pampered left.

 

[remnant]

Let's see where we end up once it's clear that the liberal left don't understand this situation and have no real solutions to offer.

According to most leftwing journalists, the solution is simple. Stop all future cuts and increase welfare by a very large undisclosed amount.

 

[SmokyDave]

It's all going to come down to the cash at some point. Of course, social cohesion does have a monetary value, but it's one that's easy to push back rather than making unpopular and expensive decisions that need to be made, but will just lose you the next election.

And eventually, your society.

Our current political system encourages relatively short-term thinking. This is exacerbated by certain elements in the media.

Can't argue with that.

Opportunism didn't spark anything. It's part of the underlying cause.

I want to argue but since I'll concede that these riots wouldn't be happening (yet) without the shooting, I won't. The shooting may have sparked the Tottenham riots but that does nothing to explain why it's spread to the rest of the country. At this point, it's just opportunism.

Right, 'cause only right-wingers could solve this. The self-styled "party of law and order" has done jack shit.

The government in England is totally ineffective regardless of political leanings. Doesn't change the fact that I believe the right wing could solve this whilst the left wing leafs through the Guardian looking for socio-political explanations to excuse these poor, misunderstood people.

The left birthed this baby and it's time that the right retro-actively aborted it.