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[butter_stick]

I dont see what the problem is. A police officer shot a gang member, isn't that a good thing? It's keeping the peace. I dont see anything wrong with this unless the police officer shot the guy when he wasn't committing any crimes.

The question is if the guy shot at the police, and there's no clear answer to that yet.

But really this isn't all about some dude that got shot.

 

[outunderthestars]

The police are not going to open fire on a bunch of kids. I think some people in this thread need to remove that idea from their minds completely.

What will probably happen and would be sensible is a curfew to be put in place for young people anyone seen out after a certain time would be easier to apprehend for patrolling officers.

Shooting kids with rubber bullets is not going to solve anything and could just make the situation worst.

How about tear gas to clear the streets? is that seriously something you brits would find offensive and/or harsh?

 

[gburgess10]

I can somewhat understand these guys stealing, but why are they destroying property for no reason? Why burn buildings?

Are they trying to use an anti-corporation tack to justify their thievery?

Also, are these guys idiots? Burning buildings will only worsen the economy and employers will hire less.....

 

[Salazar]

Also, are these guys idiots? Burning buildings will only worsen the economy and employers will hire less.....

Most of them do not give a shit. They are Kentpaul multiplied by 10,000.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I can somewhat understand these guys stealing, but why are they destroying property for no reason? Why burn buildings?

Are they trying to use an anti-corporation tack to justify their thievery?

Also, are these guys idiots? Burning buildings will only worsen the economy and employers will hire less.....

Errrr.... they aren't doing this thinking about the economy or corporations. I think you are confusing these riots with some G8 protests or something.

 

[The Technomancer]

I can somewhat understand these guys stealing, but why are they destroying property for no reason? Why burn buildings?

Are they trying to use an anti-corporation tack to justify their thievery?

Also, are these guys idiots? Burning buildings will only worsen the economy and employers will hire less.....

Think you answered your own questions...

 

[Dead Man]

I can somewhat understand these guys stealing, but why are they destroying property for no reason? Why burn buildings?

Are they trying to use an anti-corporation tack to justify their thievery?

Also, are these guys idiots? Burning buildings will only worsen the economy and employers will hire less.....

Blind rage and stupidity, mainly. No real intention to communicate a message other than that.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Here's another good article on the causes and reasons behind the looting.

I hate academic attempts at validation for criminal behavior.

.

Sex Pistols bullshit badly rephrased for Grauniad readers.

lol

 

[Salazar]

"Many of the people involved are likely to have been from low-income, high-unemployment estates, and many, if not most, do not have much of a legitimate future," said criminologist and youth culture expert Professor John Pitts.

Sex Pistols bullshit badly rephrased for Grauniad readers.

 

[Esiquio]

.

What a STUPID article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-london-riots

 

[Polari]

What a STUPID article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-london-riots

I think it raises some valid points.

Those condemning the events of the past couple of nights in north London and elsewhere would do well to take a step back and consider the bigger picture: a country in which the richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest, where consumerism predicated on personal debt has been pushed for years as the solution to a faltering economy, and where, according to the OECD, social mobility is worse than any other developed country.

As Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett point out in The Spirit Level: Why Equality is Better for Everyone, phenomena usually described as "social problems" (crime, ill-health, imprisonment rates, mental illness) are far more common in unequal societies than ones with better economic distribution and less gap between the richest and the poorest. Decades of individualism, competition and state-encouraged selfishness – combined with a systematic crushing of unions and the ever-increasing criminalisation of dissent – have made Britain one of the most unequal countries in the developed world.

 

[dschalter]

academic explanations for crime are useful and important when formulating long range plans.

right now, the focus should be on stopping the massive destruction of property that is going on.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

There's never a good reason for looting and rampantly destroying property like this. Protest all you want, but don't be destructive and don't harm your fellow countryman.

 

[ATF487]

What a STUPID article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-london-riots

Eh, it's not an amazing article but I do think that the underclass lashes out when things come to a head.

Still, when law and order breaks down you see normal people start to join in, and it's not like this is some planned statement. It's sad to say but I think a lot of people's morality is based on possible punitive measures more than anything else.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Is this still going on? Crazy.

 

[Dead Man]

academic explanations for crime are useful and important when formulating long range plans.

right now, the focus should be on stopping the massive destruction of property that is going on.

The focus of those that can do so, is on that. Academics will not be on the front lines.

 

[Salazar]

The focus of those that can do so, is on that. Academics will not be on the front lines.

You say the warrior scholar is extinct ?

 

[Dead Man]

You say the warrior scholar is extinct ?

I do You were our last hope.

 

[Cyport]

Is there a summary of what's happened since midnight, can't be bothered to go through all the posts.. Maybe when I have time.

 

[SapientWolf]

academic explanations for crime are useful and important when formulating long range plans.

right now, the focus should be on stopping the massive destruction of property that is going on.

Could be useful for both. Violence isn't the only way to win a battle.

 

[Rich!]

Not surprised about all this. London is a fucking shithole (imo).

Hope they catch these guys anyway.

 

[jamesinclair]

I dont see what the problem is. A police officer shot a gang member, isn't that a good thing? It's keeping the peace. I dont see anything wrong with this unless the police officer shot the guy when he wasn't committing any crimes.

So the police officer is able to serve as a judge and jury?

 

[jufonuk]

So the police officer is able to serve as a judge and jury?

judge dredd was right.

 

[gerg]

I really don't understand why people dislike the fact that some are trying to consider why these riots are happening. They're not justifying them - they just want to clarify the context behind these events such that in the future they can be better prevented.

But, hey, I guess the rioters and looters are all just shitheads, right? There's no point looking further than that!

 

[Salazar]

But, hey, I guess the rioters and looters are all just shitheads, right? There's no point looking further than that!

Rioting and looting is sufficiently shitty for me to consider people engaging in it shitheads.

It is platitudinous in the extreme to talk about poverty and unemployment as drivers of social unrest. It's a waste of newspaper space.

What I do dislike a little bit is the notion that a "lack of social mobility" is entirely the fault of the government, employers, and the like. The pretence that "these are [all] people whom society has failed".

 

[MWS Natural]

they steal now because there is little to no chance of being caught. Crowd mentality kicks in and they other people stealing, so why shouldn't they?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3K1tM11yC8

I love how they cut the guy off at the end of the video who was actually making the most valid point in the entire thing.

 

[gerg]

Rioting and looting is sufficiently shitty for me to consider people engaging in it shitheads.

So the question is "Why are they shitheads?"

It is platitudinous in the extreme to talk about poverty and unemployment as drivers of social unrest. It's a waste of newspaper space.

I guess the internet is getting full!

What I do dislike a little bit is the notion that a "lack of social mobility" is entirely the fault of the government, employers, and the like. The pretence that "these are [all] people whom society has failed".

Of course, some of these people may not care to try and better themselves, and give back to society. But it is equally dishonest to pretend that these are all people who just don't care, and who aren't turning to their current actions out of frustration and disillusionment.

Obviously, we're dealing with a very large amount of people, so naturally the motivations for the recent actions will be many.

 

[Salazar]

So the question is "Why are they shitheads?"

Largely the host of socio-economic causes these articles are banging on about. It's not that I disagree.

I guess the internet is getting full!

I guarantee the Guardian and Indy will actually print that shit.

 

[ToxicAdam]

So the question is "Why are they shitheads?"

Because a small percentage of our population will always be shitheads. So, you better have a systemic response in place to keep them in check before they influence others to imitate their actions.

 

[outunderthestars]

I love how they cut the guy off at the end of the video who was actually making the most valid point in the entire thing.

It would have been to hear the rest of his opinion.

 

[gerg]

I guarantee the Guardian and Indy will actually print that shit.

And for people like me who are reading those kind of articles for the first time, that's very useful.

Because a small percentage of our population will always be shitheads. So, you better have a systemic response in place to keep them in check before they influence others to imitate their actions.

So, thus our duty should be to improve socio-economic conditions such as to prevent people who aren't always going to act badly from starting to do so (owing to those conditions).

Fair point. Maybe they lost a hockey game. It doesn't matter. Riots, unless you live in Syria, are fucking assine. Yay, lets protest social injustice and inequality by burning down, looting and vandalizing the very areas that you believe are victims of social injustice. That'll show the man.

When did I ever say that these people are acting rationally?

 

[GillianSeed79]

I really don't understand why people dislike the fact that some are trying to consider why these riots are happening. They're not justifying them - they just want to clarify the context behind these events such that in the future they can be better prevented.

But, hey, I guess the rioters and looters are all just shitheads, right? There's no point looking further than that!

Fair point. Maybe they lost a hockey game. It doesn't matter. Riots, unless you live in Syria, are fucking assine. Yay, lets protest social injustice and inequality by burning down, looting and vandalizing the very areas that you believe are victims of social injustice. That'll show the man.

 

[ToxicAdam]

So, thus our duty should be to improve socio-economic conditions such as to prevent people who aren't always going to act badly from starting to do so (owing to those conditions).

Can you name a place or time in history where this has happened? You should be working towards this, but in the meantime, you need to plan accordingly for the large-scale, social unrest that has been a constant in human history. More importantly, you need to act quickly to enforce order before it turns into a tidal wave.

There have been many studies where people will behave badly if they can think they can get away with it. It isn't dependent on their need.

 

[xbhaskarx]

What is there to analyze?

Aren't these looters already getting government benefits? From taxes paid by the shopkeepers and homeowners whose property they are stealing?
Should the businesses be taxed even more, so the looters can get even bigger welfare checks?

 

[xbhaskarx]

So I'm watching a youtube video of the looting and there's a store called LOOT (yellow and black sign at 2:14)... self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[gerg]

You should be working towards this, but in the meantime, you need to plan accordingly for the large-scale, social unrest that has been a constant in human history. More importantly, you need to act quickly to enforce order before it turns into a tidal wave.

Sure, I've never denied this.

I just don't think that the academics whose opinions we are hearing would instead be out on the front lines of the police force if newspapers weren't paying them to hear what they think.　This isn't exactly a sum game.

There have been many studies where people will behave badly if they can think they can get away with it. It isn't dependent on their need.

I'm not sure I've ever denied this.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

it's human nature, some humans are just shitty. not everyone deserves compassion.

 

[Chittagong]

They will have to mobilize army and set a curfew today.

It sets an extremely dangerous precedent that thugs can safely keep looting any store at will without risking their health or freedom. They won't stop until they sense any risk in their doing. Absolute scum.

 

[DSN2K]

monsters...

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150333636850851&comments

 

[Lkr]

Sony cant catch a break

First thing I thought when I saw the image on another forum. 2011 isn't their year

 

[xbhaskarx]

First thing I thought when I saw the image on another forum. 2011 isn't their year

Cross off yet another year, 2012 is now penciled in as the Year of Sony.

 

[Lkr]

is there anywhere to watch live coverage? i'm in the US

 

[Salazar]

Yes, we know violence on the streets in London is bad. Yes, we know that looting shops is wrong. But why is it happening now? Why didn’t it happen last year? Because grievances build up over time, because when the system wills the death of a young black citizen from a deprived community, it simultaneously, if subconsciously, wills the response.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2011/08/09/tariq-ali/why-here-why-now/

I'm not even sure Tariq knows what he is on about with that last bit.

And the "yeah, yeah, we know looting is bad" tone is ill-judged even for him.

 

[jufonuk]

just give the order to allow the police to use reasonable force, yes that can be interpreted differently but untie their hands, if Cameron doesn't issue something to give a show of force the riots will continue and the public will end up takling the jobs and it will be running battles and extreme violence.....

 

[Dead Man]

http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2011/08/09/tariq-ali/why-here-why-now/

I'm not even sure Tariq knows what he is on about with that last bit.

And the "yeah, yeah, we know looting is bad" tone is ill-judged even for him.

I normally like to read Tariq Ali's stuff, but that is pretty rubbish.

 

[Lkr]

just give the order to allow the police to use reasonable force, yes that can be interpreted differently but untie their hands, if Cameron doesn't issue something to give a show of force the riots will continue and the public will end up takling the jobs and it will be running battles and extreme violence.....

i've seen people on twitter saying they should bring in the army. as an American I am opposed to martial law, but I wonder how Britons feel about it at this point

 

[neorej]

I hope they declare martial law and move the military in. I'd like to see those looters and rioters go up against SAS.

 

[Nix]

God damn, I said God Damn!!! My UK-brothers, what the fuck is going on with you guys? Hasn't this been going on for awhile now? You're still doing it?

Hope you guys get out of this soon, although I don't think an analysis of why the people are looting and rioting is exactly what you need right now. Rather, shouldn't there be some action taken to prevent this? But whatever, I'm an American, and yes, we've got Florida, so I can't really talk. Hope you guys live through this; oh, and if you see a Vaio with NIX on it, that's mine assholes, and thanks for looting my shit.

 

[Lkr]

God damn, I said God Damn!!! My UK-brothers, what the fuck is going on with you guys? Hasn't this been going on for awhile now? You're still doing it?

Hope you guys get out of this soon, although I don't think an analysis of why the people are looting and rioting is exactly what you need right now. Rather, shouldn't there be some action taken to prevent this? But whatever, I'm an American, and yes, we've got Florida, so I can't really talk. Hope you guys live through this; oh, and if you see a Vaio with NIX on it, that's mine assholes, and thanks for looting my shit.

when was the last time there were any riots in Florida?

 

[Jeff-DSA]

i've seen people on twitter saying they should bring in the army. as an American I am opposed to martial law, but I wonder how Britons feel about it at this point

In Chile when the riots break out, the army comes in with massive water tanks. These things blast the rioters into the mud. Nobody likes being out in wet pants. Nobody.

Bring in the water.