Lord of the rings: Return of the King - as I missing something?

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elrechazao said:
I understand your reluctance to read books, since you evidently see phantom words and concepts in text that isn't there. Where did I mention blades? Books. B-O-O-K-S - not b l a d e s.

let me ask you a simple question

according to you sacred books are the nazgul any match whatsoever for gandalf the white yes or no?
he was fighting with a balrog in greymode
WTF are the nazgul gonna do to gandalf in whitemode (more powerful form?)

he doesn't have to kill the nazgul just keep them busy on his way to the volcano
but apparently he wouldn't succeed

nice one
 
H.Cornerstone said:
I'm pretty sure it says somewhere than Gandalf is as powerful as Sauron... However he was limited in his power as he was there simply to help mankind defeat sauron, not do it for them.

In the film Return of the King before the attack on Minas Tirith Merry talks to Gandalf about how they have him and how powerful he is... but then Gandalf reveals to him that the Witch King is actually more powerful than him.

I also remember it being in the books or something similar. It would be kind of dumb for the movie to make that up.
 
MrHicks said:
let me ask you a simple question

according to you sacred books are the nazgul any match whatsoever for gandalf the white yes or no?
he was fighting with a balrog in greymode
WTF are the nazgul gonna do to gandalf in whitemode (more powerful form?)

he doesn't have to kill the nazgul just keep them busy on his way to the volcano
but apparently he wouldn't succeed

nice one

You do know that people would take your arguments more seriously if you had any grasp of proper syntax among other things.
 
UltimaPooh said:
In the film Return of the King before the attack on Minas Tirith Merry talks to Gandalf about how they have him and how powerful he is... but then Gandalf reveals to him that the Witch King is actually more powerful than him.

I also remember it being in the books or something similar. It would be kind of dumb for the movie to make that up.

Back in the west, they might be as powerfull... but Gandalf entered Middle Earth with limited power... Sauron don't have this limitation since he was brought by Melkor? Right?
 
Dude, no way!

I watched this whole movie today for Xmas. Me and my friends were drunk when we started it...and by the time it was over, we had all sobered up.

No idea what you asked, just thought I'd share.
 
LAUGHTREY said:
It's crazy to think that J.R.R Tolkien came up with all this stuff all on his own, and basically laid the foundation for most fantasy stuff today.

I heard he actually left the boxs open as a sand box for other to continue. Kind of like how Star Wars is now. Imagine like 900 LotR books?
 
fanboi said:
Back in the west, they might be as powerfull... but Gandalf entered Middle Earth with limited power... Sauron don't have this limitation since he was brought by Melkor? Right?

Well my point is that since the Witch King is strong or more powerful than Gandalf Sauron most surely is because he essentially created the Nazgul.

The rest of the Nazgul are probably just as strong if not weaker than Gandalf... but if they were to gang up on him... I dunno.
 
ItAintEasyBeinCheesy said:
Fantasy books do this a lot, super powerful magicians who do fuck all.............. i mean what kinda war would it be if the dude just rocks up incinerates all enemy forces and then fucks off.
Read The Silmarillion, in the ending portions the Valar go to war with one of their own (Morgoth) and vast amounts of land is destroyed or sunk into the ocean. What is the west coast of Middle Earth in the Lord of the Rings is actually the far eastern portions of what used to be Beleriand in the First Age.

TL;DR: Armies of Valar, Maiar, and Valinorian Elves tend to fuck shit up a little too well.

itxaka said:
gandalf sucks. Even a level 3 mage can shoot some fireballs. The other mage(the bad one) is much more awesome, or at least uses some magic.

I forgot, did he beat that beast of fire with magic or what was it?
He fell, survived, chased the Balrog for a few days, climbed a mountain and then kicked its ass.
 
Books make it clear that Gandalf was far more powerful than the Witch King.

It's just less effective in a cinematic sense to have it this way. The Witch King needed to be an effective villain, and they had to establish this in a much shorter space of time, so making him more powerful was the easiest way.

I'm also pretty sure Tolkien confirmed Sauron as more powerful than Gandalf, or any other thing on Middle Earth.

And the Eagles wouldn't fly the things because they're in a very literal sense tools of divine will in the books. Whatsisface, whatever the God is, didn't want to directly interfere until it was absolutely necessary or something. Which is kind of weak, because Sauron never really stood a chance obviously, but whatever.
 
MrHicks said:
let me ask you a simple question

according to you sacred books are the nazgul any match whatsoever for gandalf the white yes or no?
he was fighting with a balrog in greymode
WTF are the nazgul gonna do to gandalf in whitemode (more powerful form?)

he doesn't have to kill the nazgul just keep them busy on his way to the volcano
but apparently he wouldn't succeed

nice one
Quit pretending to be an idiot, wipe the drool from your mouth, and use your brain. What makes you think the Nazgul are the only thing Gandalf would have to deal with in your suicide rush?
 
Darklord said:
Read the rest of his post, maybe?

I did?

Anyway I suppose the Witch King is not stronger than Gandalf because in the book he does beat him... however I think they are pretty evenly matched leading up to that point.

Also 5 Wizards are sent to deal with Sauron not just Gandalf... if Gandalf were as strong or stronger than Sauron why not only send him instead of 4 other Wizards?
 
In the books, Gandalf is clearly stronger.

In the movie, they change this for cinematic purposes. What are you not getting?

The Witch King is just a kind of corrupted human empowered by Sauron. Gandalf is a divine being. It's no contest.
 
Duki said:
In the books, Gandalf is clearly stronger.

In the movie, they change this for cinematic purposes. What are you not getting?

I understand the differences... Just a hard time remembering the book... Speaking of which I'm gonna go grab it.
 
Eru (the only true diety) -> The Balance of Things

Using magic whenever you feel like will disrupt the Balance of Things.

Morgoth and Sauron don't care about Eru and use magic unrestrained.

Saruman used magic beyond the scope of what was called for, and he became corrupted.

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power absolutely corrupts. Hence the major theme of Lord of the Rings is about getting rid of absolute power by throwing The Ring into a volcano. If you try to use The Ring, eventually the absolute power will corrupt you.

If Gandalf goes around using magic all the time, he will upset the Balance of Things and become corrupted like Saruman.
 
Combichristoffersen said:
Silmarillion states that the orcs were corrupted elves, but Tolkien later on decided that the orcs originated from men that just were sort of degenerated humans or something (it's in one of the History of ME books IIRC, I'll google it). Thanks for the clarification BTW, you're absolutely right that the orcs were, going by the Silmarillion, created by Morgoth, not Sauron ;)

EDIT: The thing with orcs coming from humans is mentioned here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc_(Middle-earth)#Sentient_beasts

EDIT 2: It's also mentioned briefly here, at question #14.

EDIT 3: And here

Fixed for wrong link

I just lost like 4 hours messing around with those links. I need to sleep.
 
@ the CG in LOTR - I actually just watched the trilogy the past couple of days. Some CG still holds up very well (like the morphing of King Theadon, Shelob, and other animal creatures). I think the film is weakest at some of the compositing shots (Mary/Pippen with Treebeard, the rear POV of the Witch King flying over the city, and etc). Some of the "Massive" shots look a little bit dated as well.

Gollum still looks good, but his mouth movements appear a bit stiff compared to modern CG characters. Otherwise he still holds up fairly well.

@Sauraman being cut from the theatrical - I was upset at first but once I saw the the extended version, I now understand why they cut it from the theatrical releases. The scene just dragged on for too long and didn't really fit well either at the end of Two Towers or at the beginning of Return of the King. It was best left for the director's cut.
 
Darklord said:
I always hated that effect. His beard just fades away and looks really fake.


I thought it was great. They basically had him in makeup in 5 different stages. Most CG morphs, they just tween the character from A to Z.
 
Bootaaay said:
They're coming next year, although iirc like the DVD's they're releasing the Theatrical cuts on blu-ray first, then presumably the Director's Cut sometime after, probably when The Hobbit comes out.
Fixed.

I'm buying the theatrical BD set regardless. I still own both cuts on DVD and I don't think that the extended ones are the 'superior in every way' editions that people make out. There's something to be said for not making hugely long movies with pacing issues even longer, although I certainly like some of the new scenes.
 
_Isaac said:
I actually really liked how all that went down. When she says "I am no man" that was an such an amazing "You go girl!" moment.
It was a silly moment that made me cringe.

Also: I'm of the opinion that Tom Bombadil is the spirit of Arda (middle-earth) itself.
 
_Isaac said:
I actually really liked how all that went down. When she says "I am no man" that was an such an amazing "You go girl!" moment.

...which is precisely why it was garbage. It was just a stupid moment. I have a hard time believing that whatever magic that was designed to protect him against physicality would be cast to be gender-specific as opposed to "man" being representative of mankind.

Fucking stupid moment.

It also further moved to fuck up the balance in power.

Gandalf, resurrected as a Maiar, was humbled by a cursed human (The Witch King). He was humbled to the point of appearing helpless in front of the Witch King.

...and after that, a woman without any particular excellence defeats him because she's a woman and his master forgot about that technicality when cursing him. OK.
 
WickedAngel said:
...which is precisely why it was garbage. It was just a stupid moment. I have a hard time believing that whatever magic that was designed to protect him against physicality would be cast to be gender-specific as opposed to "man" being representative of mankind.

Fucking stupid moment.

It also further moved to fuck up the balance in power.

Gandalf, resurrected as a Maiar, was humbled by a cursed human (The Witch King). He was humbled to the point of appearing helpless in front of the Witch King.

...and after that, a woman without any particular excellence defeats him because she's a woman and his master forgot about that technicality when cursing him. OK.

It was because Merry stabbed him in the back with his magical sword.
 
MrHicks said:
will you guys stop pretending like the nazgul are gonna stop gandalf from flying to the volcano?
they are like no match

the biggest WTF moment in lotr was this

lotro-witch-king.jpg

"raaaar i am the witch king LORD of the nazgul bring it on!!!!!!!"
"No man can kill me. Die now"

*OH SNAP!!!!!! the UBER nazgul that dude looks like trouble can't wait!!*

eowyn.jpg

"sup witchboy"
"BTW im a WOMAN bitch!!!"
LordoftheRings-WitchkingKilled.jpg

"now STFU k thx bye"

*THE HELL???*

Eowyn_rare_pic.jpg

"whos next????"

i'm sure gandalf is shitting his pants right of having to fend those "badasses" off

YES! This was my original complaint when i first watched ROTK. I was shot down by everyone saying it because she was a girl! But to me that seemed too easy, and by no man, i assumed mankind.

Stupid girl power shit ruining my apreciation of this epic battle. Dumb explanation, but i know its not Pete Jacksons fault. Still WTF.
 
Fëanor said:
So, what's Tom Bombaldil? A valar? Maiar?

No one really knows for sure. The closest Tolkien ever came to giving an explanation was a brief mention of how Bombadil was a manifestation of the spirit of nature and the surroundings of Tolkien's childhood home (or something like that, I'd have to look it up to find the exact quote).

WyndhamPrice said:
To quote Goldberry, he just is.

That definitely is the best, and simplest, answer. No one knows what he is, he just is.

H.Cornerstone said:
I'm pretty sure it says somewhere than Gandalf is as powerful as Sauron.

Considering even Gandalf feared Sauron.. No. Gandalf was powerful, and they were both of the same stock of divine beings, but Sauron was, if he would have had the ring in his possession, far beyond even Gandalf in terms of power. Considering Sauron could most likely whoop the ass of a balrog if he wanted to, and even Gandalf feared the balrog of Moria, I think I can safely assure you that had Sauron gotten his hands on the One Ring, he could've mauled Gandalf with the flick of a thumb.

Graf Nudu said:
A little offtopic, but what was the name of those "Arab"-people on their elephants?

"People from the east"?

Haradrim or Southrons if you like.

Tobor said:
Quit pretending to be an idiot, wipe the drool from your mouth, and use your brain. What makes you think the Nazgul are the only thing Gandalf would have to deal with in your suicide rush?

This. If they actually tried flying into Mordor, Sauron would've noticed it immediately, and thrown everything he could of nazguls, fell beasts, black magic and whatnot at them. And even though Gandalf was a powerful divine being, he wasn't the Superman of Middle-earth, as he was definitely not invincible.

And now, the best theory regarding Bombadil: Tom Bombadil and the Witch King are one and the same :lol
 
I just watched the Fellowship because of this thread :lol Great movie, gets better as I get older.
I have some questions though.

#1
I don't understand the concept of this 'Ring of Power' fully. It was forged at mount doom, with what? What was Sauron before the ring was forged? The Eye? Because thats what he became after he lost it and I hardly think losing a couple of fingers caused it. I read here that Morgoth or something brought him to ME so he already was powerful anyway, why does he need the ring after it is forged?
Also, why do regular people go invisible when they wear it or is it just 'magic'.

#2
Is Aragorn's past ever explained further than 'he is in self-exile'? Do the books shed any further light on this?

#3
Did Tolkien ever write anything that took place after the events of LOTR, like expanded bits of characters or some sort of epilogue that you don't find in the movie?

#4
In this movie the Elf chick gives Aragorn her 'light' or something, saying she chooses a mortal life now. Why does she get upset about outliving Aragorn then in the last movie? Or do Elves live longer by default even without that, from what I can gather, eternal life necklace.
 
I should be doing hw said:
I just watched the Fellowship because of this thread :lol Great movie, gets better as I get older.
I have some questions though.

#1
I don't understand the concept of this 'Ring of Power' fully. It was forged at mount doom, with what? What was Sauron before the ring was forged? The Eye? Because thats what he became after he lost it and I hardly think losing a couple of fingers caused it. I read here that Morgoth or something brought him to ME so he already was powerful anyway, why does he need the ring after it is forged?
Also, why do regular people go invisible when they wear it or is it just 'magic'.

#2
Is Aragorn's past ever explained further than 'he is in self-exile'? Do the books shed any further light on this?

#3
Did Tolkien ever write anything that took place after the events of LOTR, like expanded bits of characters or some sort of epilogue that you don't find in the movie?

#4
In this movie the Elf chick gives Aragorn her 'light' or something, saying she chooses a mortal life now. Why does she get upset about outliving Aragorn then in the last movie? Or do Elves live longer by default even without that, from what I can gather, eternal life necklace.

1: Sauron was a humanoid being, the Lord of Darkness in Middle-earth at the time (his master, the original dark lord Morgoth, was chained and bound beyond space and time at that point). Sauron never became the eye. That's how the movies represented him, due to an honest misreading. Sauron did have a physical body during the War of the Ring (the book mentions how Gollum had met Sauron himself, and noticed that one of his fingers was missing). The 'eye of Sauron' is what people who gaze into the palantiri see. It's up for debate if the 'eye' is just a manifestation of Sauron's piercing mind and will, or the only part of his body he allows to be seen. But Sauron never becae a floating eye of fire like in the movies.

Sauron made the One Ring to enslave the other Rings of Power, so that he could control the other races of Middle-earth. Where Morgoth desired mainly destruction of Eru's creation, Sauron desired might and power.

The invisibility effect is just magic.

2: The main story of LotR doesn't really delve into much of Aragorn's backstory, but IIRC it's mentioned in the appendices, and in books like Unfinished Tales, History of ME etc.

3. Well.. He did begin work on a sequel to LotR, but abandoned it after about one chapter. Otherwise there isn't much material dealing with history post-LotR, as Tolkien was mainly concerned with the Silmarillion and the writings dealing with the elves, the creation of Arda etc.

4. Elves weren't actually totally immortal. Tolkien gave a very convoluted and difficult explanation behind the mortality and life of elves, how their souls are tied directly to Arda etc., but they could certainly die from wounds or from losing the desire to live. They could also die of old age, but it would take them massive amounts of millennia to reach such an age (I think I once read somewhere that some guy with too much time on his hands had came to the conclusion that Galadriel was, at the time of LotR, something like 13.000 years old). So Arwen was probably upset because she knew she would spend thousands of years grieving over Aragorn, unless she died of wounds, grief or something. Also, IIRC, when humans died, they would go to the Halls of Mandos to await their fate after death, and then go on to Eru knows where, but the elves would be reborn again.
 
I guess I am the only one who had noticed that Eowyn was wounded after killing the Witchking? Like any other human would have. Hence the Houses of Healing?? What's so hard to understand?

I should be doing hw said:
I just watched the Fellowship because of this thread :lol Great movie, gets better as I get older.
I have some questions though.

#1
I don't understand the concept of this 'Ring of Power' fully. It was forged at mount doom, with what? What was Sauron before the ring was forged? The Eye? Because thats what he became after he lost it and I hardly think losing a couple of fingers caused it. I read here that Morgoth or something brought him to ME so he already was powerful anyway, why does he need the ring after it is forged?
Also, why do regular people go invisible when they wear it or is it just 'magic'.

#2
Is Aragorn's past ever explained further than 'he is in self-exile'? Do the books shed any further light on this?

#3
Did Tolkien ever write anything that took place after the events of LOTR, like expanded bits of characters or some sort of epilogue that you don't find in the movie?

#4
In this movie the Elf chick gives Aragorn her 'light' or something, saying she chooses a mortal life now. Why does she get upset about outliving Aragorn then in the last movie? Or do Elves live longer by default even without that, from what I can gather, eternal life necklace.

1. There are 3 Rings to Govern the races of Elves (Galadriel, Elrond and Gandalf were the holders), 7 to the Dwarf Lords and 9 to the Kings of Men. The one ring was forged in secret to control all those rings, and thus, controlling everyone. Obviously, men are greedy and thus the kinds became the Nazgul and forever fucked up the lineage. Of course it also makes Sauron almost invincible when he wears it. Not that he wasn't already, I mean he could turn into a wolf and stuff, change appearance at will etc.

2. Aragorn's father was killed, his mother took him to Rivendel for safe keeping and exile, he is a descendant of Isildur and Elendil.. Numenoreans, blessed with long lasting life, and the only one left to be able to rightly take back the throne of Gondor and Arnor.

3. There is the appendices that has a timeline of what happens after, but it doesn't go too much into it. Basically, Sam eventually leaves to Valinor with Frodo as he too was a ring bearer, Can't remember but Merry or Pippin become Mayor of Hobbiton and some other stuff. Uh, Aragorn dies like 200 years later, his son becomes King obviously, Arwen dies as well soon after Aragorn. I think Gimli and Legolas go to Valinor as well. Can't remember too well. But things are pretty nice after rings. Of course, there is Dagor Dagorath which was said to happen.

4. The pendant(Evenstar) was more of a visual symbol. Purely for the movie. Elves are immortal as you know, but they can only die through two reasons, Death or grief.
She essentially chose a mortal life by deciding to stay with Aragorn and she gave up her life once he died.

Galadriel is almost as old as Sauron. She's been around for ages!
 
Combichristoffersen said:
4. Elves weren't actually totally immortal. Tolkien gave a very convoluted and difficult explanation behind the mortality and life of elves, how their souls are tied directly to Arda etc., but they could certainly die from wounds or from losing the desire to live. They could also die of old age, but it would take them massive amounts of millennia to reach such an age (I think I once read somewhere that some guy with too much time on his hands had came to the conclusion that Galadriel was, at the time of LotR, something like 13.000 years old). So Arwen was probably upset because she knew she would spend thousands of years grieving over Aragorn, unless she died of wounds, grief or something. Also, IIRC, when humans died, they would go to the Halls of Mandos to await their fate after death, and then go on to Eru knows where, but the elves would be reborn again.
Thanks for all that, I should get around to reading the books one day but I tried and know that they are fairly long winded. Besides I'm halfway through the second book of ASOIAF which are infinitely more enjoyable to read for me.
So can Arwen not simply choose a mortal life like she implies in the first film then? Because that's what she said pretty much, making her grief stupid because she wouldn't be grieving for thousands of years. But that's the movie I guess, not the books.

Edit:
Explained to me whilst I was typing :lol Thanks guys
 
I should be doing hw said:
Thanks for all that, I should get around to reading the books one day but I tried and know that they are fairly long winded. Besides I'm halfway through the second book of ASOIAF which are infinitely more enjoyable to read for me.
So can Arwen not simply choose a mortal life like she implies in the first film then? Because that's what she said pretty much, making her grief stupid because she wouldn't be grieving for thousands of years. But that's the movie I guess, not the books.

Well it's quite complicated in the books, and so they used the visual medium of the Evanstar to represent her immortality, if you will.
 
This Silmarillion really seems to deliver the goods, I wonder if they will try to adapt more then the two hobbit/post hobbit movies they have coming.
 
I should be doing hw said:
Thanks for all that, I should get around to reading the books one day but I tried and know that they are fairly long winded. Besides I'm halfway through the second book of ASOIAF which are infinitely more enjoyable to read for me.
So can Arwen not simply choose a mortal life like she implies in the first film then? Because that's what she said pretty much, making her grief stupid because she wouldn't be grieving for thousands of years. But that's the movie I guess, not the books.

I guess they did that for effect in the movie, explaining all the convoluted stuff behind how elves' mortality works would just make people dizzy (I still can't get my head all around what exactly the fuck Tolkien was on about :lol ). If you want to read more about elves and their mortality and lifespan, check these links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf_(Middle-earth)#Death

http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/papers/Amaranth/DeathinTolkien.htm

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Elven_Life_cycle

http://www.group29.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=52
 
madara said:
This Silmarillion really seems to deliver the goods, I wonder if they will try to adapt more then the two hobbit/post hobbit movies they have coming.

HBO style mini series. Then I can die happy.
 
legend166 said:
I'll let an even bigger LotR nerd than myself explain it in more detail, but Gandalf was a Maiar (basically angels). They were sent to Middle Earth tro assist people against Sauron. But they were given the form of old dudes to limit their power and were told simply to be guides, and not simply kick ass like they could.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandalf

Wiki said:
Neither Gandalf nor the Balrog was killed by the fall into the deep subterranean lake under Moria. Gandalf pursued the Balrog for eight days until they climbed to the peak of Zirakzigil. Here they fought for two days and nights. In the end, the Balrog was cast down and broke the mountainside with its fall. Gandalf himself died during this ordeal, and his body lay on the peak while his spirit travelled outside of time.

Damn. I never knew Gandalf was that much of a badass. :lol
 
Combichristoffersen said:
I guess they did that for effect in the movie, explaining all the convoluted stuff behind how elves' mortality works would just make people dizzy (I still can't get my head all around what exactly the fuck Tolkien was on about :lol ). If you want to read more about elves and their mortality and lifespan, check these links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elf_(Middle-earth)#Death

http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/papers/Amaranth/DeathinTolkien.htm

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Elven_Life_cycle

http://www.group29.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=52
Hmm, I really don't actually :lol I'll stick with the pendant for ignorance's sake haha
Saved for later if I ever give a damn though. I also have the Silmarillion which is the only book other than order of the phoenix and fellowship that I stopped reading after I began. Tolkien's writing just doesn't grab me I don't think, although I really enjoyed The Hobbit so whatever.
Oh actually whilst I'm on the topic, who was the dude who killed the Dragon in that book? He had black arrows iirc.
 
madara said:
This Silmarillion really seems to deliver the goods, I wonder if they will try to adapt more then the two hobbit/post hobbit movies they have coming.

The Silmarillion is an amazing book, and definitely Tolkien's masterpiece, but it's hard to read if you aren't accustomed to the style of writing. It took me about six months to get through it :lol As for a movie adaption of the Silmarillion in it's entirety, that would just be a confusing clusterfuck. But adapting some of the stories for a movie or two, or eventually make a TV-mini series.. It could work. But it would probably be a rude awakening for people who'd only seen the LotR movies and the Hobbit movies, considering the Silmarillion deals with incest, elves slaughtering elves just for shits and giggles and Morgoth generally being an asshole :lol I think the original version of the Silmarillion also implied that Morgoth was planning to rape Luthien.

I should be doing hw said:
Hmm, I really don't actually :lol I'll stick with the pendant for ignorance's sake haha
Saved for later if I ever give a damn though. I also have the Silmarillion which is the only book other than order of the phoenix and fellowship that I stopped reading after I began. Tolkien's writing just doesn't grab me I don't think, although I really enjoyed The Hobbit so whatever.
Oh actually whilst I'm on the topic, who was the dude who killed the Dragon in that book? He had black arrows iirc.

Smaug was killed by Bard the Bowman. If you enjoyed the Hobbit, you could check out Tales from the Perilous Realm and Letters from Father Christmas. They aren't really related to the ME legendarium, but they are pleasant readings nonetheless.
 
LAUGHTREY said:
It's crazy to think that J.R.R Tolkien came up with all this stuff all on his own, and basically laid the foundation for most fantasy stuff today.

Most of his fantasy comes from Nordic myths, which had Elves, Dwarves making artifacts, and other similar aspects of the fantasy. Not to say it wasn't still an amazing feat. Especially developing the elvish language and history.

I don't how many times I watched the Hobbit cartoon growing up.
 
I should be doing hw said:
Hmm, I really don't actually :lol I'll stick with the pendant for ignorance's sake haha
Saved for later if I ever give a damn though. I also have the Silmarillion which is the only book other than order of the phoenix and fellowship that I stopped reading after I began. Tolkien's writing just doesn't grab me I don't think, although I really enjoyed The Hobbit so whatever.
Oh actually whilst I'm on the topic, who was the dude who killed the Dragon in that book? He had black arrows iirc.

Tolkiens Writing style does require some effort, I agree. Started Silmarillion, then stopped for a few months, then went back to it again all the way till I finished. Just need to stick to it really.

Combichristoffersen said:
The Silmarillion is an amazing book, and definitely Tolkien's masterpiece, but it's hard to read if you aren't accustomed to the style of writing. It took me about six months to get through it :lol As for a movie adaption of the Silmarillion in it's entirety, that would just be a confusing clusterfuck. But adapting some of the stories for a movie or two, or eventually make a TV-mini series.. It could work. But it would probably be a rude awakening for people who'd only seen the LotR movies and the Hobbit movies, considering the Silmarillion deals with incest, elves slaughtering elves just for shits and giggles and Morgoth generally being an asshole :lol I think the original version of the Silmarillion also implied that Morgoth was planning to rape Luthien.

Beren was a fucking badass though.
 
Combichristoffersen said:
The Silmarillion is an amazing book, and definitely Tolkien's masterpiece, but it's hard to read if you aren't accustomed to the style of writing. It took me about six months to get through it :lol As for a movie adaption of the Silmarillion in it's entirety, that would just be a confusing clusterfuck. But adapting some of the stories for a movie or two, or eventually make a TV-mini series.. It could work. But it would probably be a rude awakening for people who'd only seen the LotR movies and the Hobbit movies, considering the Silmarillion deals with incest, elves slaughtering elves just for shits and giggles and Morgoth generally being an asshole :lol I think the original version of the Silmarillion also implied that Morgoth was planning to rape Luthien.
Fuck me I wish there was a "Dummies Guide to the Silmarillion", all that shit sounds awesome but I didn't and probably still don't have the patience to read it.
While I'm asking and people seem to be answering, thanks by the way, what's this about the purge of the shire? Did Sauron fuck it up to spite Frodo or something?

Edit:
Smaug was killed by Bard the Bowman. If you enjoyed the Hobbit, you could check out Tales from the Perilous Realm and Letters from Father Christmas. They aren't really related to the ME legendarium, but they are pleasant readings nonetheless.
Thanks I think I might, after I get through Song of Ice and Fire (I have a long ways to go yet) I have the Redwall series to reread. I have a gaming backlog and now a reading one :lol a younger me would have scoffed at the thought.
What became of this Bard the Bowman? I remember him being pretty badass/liking him for some reason. Or is he ignored after that book.
 
Dabookerman said:
Beren was a fucking badass though.

Beren was definitely a fucking bad dude. And the tale of Beren and Luthien is possibly one of the most amazing (and heartbreaking) tales of undying love I've ever read.
 
I should be doing hw said:
Fuck me I wish there was a "Dummies Guide to the Silmarillion", all that shit sounds awesome but I didn't and probably still don't have the patience to read it.
While I'm asking and people seem to be answering, thanks by the way, what's this about the purge of the shire? Did Sauron fuck it up to spite Frodo or something?

The Scouring of the Shire is all Saruman's doing. He didn't do it as much to spite Frodo, I think, so as to just have somewhere he could rule, a land of his own, after Isengard was taken from him.

EDIT: I'd definitely recommend you to read Silmarillion. It might be a bit confusing with all the names and that, but the newer editions have an appendice with a list of all the names of elves, places, valar, maiar etc., but if you take your time, and let it sink in little by little, it's lan amazing tale.

I should be doing hw said:
What became of this Bard the Bowman? I remember him being pretty badass/liking him for some reason. Or is he ignored after that book.

Bard isn't really mentioned in any of the other books. After the happenings of the Hobbit, he went to his ancestral home and rebuilt it IIRC.

You can read about him here:
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Bard_the_Bowman
 
I should be doing hw said:
Fuck me I wish there was a "Dummies Guide to the Silmarillion", all that shit sounds awesome but I didn't and probably still don't have the patience to read it.
While I'm asking and people seem to be answering, thanks by the way, what's this about the purge of the shire? Did Sauron fuck it up to spite Frodo or something?

Scouring of the Shire happens after Frodo destroys the ring, and would have been in the Trilogy and THANKFULLY was not because that would have been the most anti climactic thing ever in the WORLD.

Basically, Saruman does not die like he does in the movie. Him and wormtongue, and some Orcs go to the Shire and take over basically..

In fact I am just quoting now from another board as I can't remember much, but anyhoo.

Saruman travels to the Shire, because he feels vengeance is due upon the hobbits for their part in his downfall. So he goes to the Shire with Wormtongue, where he enslaves, per se, the hobbits. He enacts a dictatorial rule through one of the less liked hobbits, Lotho Baggins; Saruman is known as "the boss". To make a long story short, yes Saruman does take over the Shire, he throws those that oppose his rule into prison, he destroys most of the wildlife, and he closes the Shire's borders, enacts a curfew, posts many outrageous laws, and hires men to be mercenaries (essentially) to keep the hobbits in line. So Frodo and his fellow hobbits come back to the Shire, observe the turmoil, and for all intents and purposes, fight a mini-war to free the shire. They chase out or kill most of the men, and in the end, Wormtongue is so abused and disturbed by Saruman's treatment of him, he lashes out and kills him. The light at the end of the tunnel for the trees and vegetation of the Shire was Galadriel's gift to Sam - seeds for the mallorn trees which grew in Lorien. Sam plants a seed at the location of every felled tree, and within a short period of time they grew to be great, beautiful trees.
 
Combichristoffersen said:
The Scouring of the Shire is all Saruman's doing. He didn't do it as much to spite Frodo, I think, so as to just have somewhere he could rule, a land of his own, after Isengard was taken from him.

EDIT: I'd definitely recommend you to read Silmarillion. It might be a bit confusing with all the names and that, but the newer editions have an appendice with a list of all the names of elves, places, valar, maiar etc., but if you take your time, and let it sink in little by little, it's lan amazing tale.



Bard isn't really mentioned in any of the other books. After the happenings of the Hobbit, he went to his ancestral home and rebuilt it IIRC.

You can read about him here:
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Bard_the_Bowman
Tell ya what, when I do get around to reading it, god knows when, I'll make a thread and then we can all bullshit about it and how (hopefully) awesome it is. I'm enjoying this but it sucks that I can contribute nothing other than asking questions. :lol
 
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