Lord of the rings: Return of the King - as I missing something?

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BattlestarDT said:
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BattlestarDT said:
Talking about LOTR so much got me hot and bothered...all the blood left my brain and we know the story from there
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Looking for rule 34 of Arwen, eh? ;3

Bootaaay said:
Lol, those are pretty good; "Sam will kill him if he tries anything" :lol
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Yeah, they're great :lol
 
Aw man. This thread... has reminded me how interesting and wonderful the Tolkien universe is. I'm going to have to do another Silmarillion --> Hobbit ---> LOTR marathon again.

I think I've read The Silmarillion four times now. The first time I read it I needed three pages of family trees I drew up. The second time through the book it was much easier to remember all of the names and relationships.

What I love most about The Silmarillion is the awe-inspiring eloquence of the very, very first paragraph of the book.
 
This thread got way complicated at around page three. I'm so glad we've finally leveled off to rule 34 conversation. That's something I can understand a little better.
 
I have a pristine untouched set of hardcover LOTR, Silmarillion, and CoH, and paperback sets of each as well. From what I am hearing the audiobooks are epic as well, I might pick those up (would be very useful for long bus/train/plane rides)


Also...link to the Shelob rule 34?
 
This thread has totally reawakened the Tolkien fanboy inside me.

I just fired up LOTR:O for the first time since October. I totally forgot about the Siege of Mirkwood expansion that came out this month. Can't wait to check it out once my game finishes updating in a few hours :lol
 
Combichristoffersen said:
I'll send you a PM :lol
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Hmm, in my mind I ignored the penis, pretended that one of Shelobs claws was penetrating his vagina, and that the plethora of creepy insect eyes was looking lovingly into the boys face, and that the boys face is an expression in the throes of passion and not terror.


Edit: NM, Shelob's stinger is penetrating him, not the claw
 
You guys seem to say Silmarillion is a tough read but how so? Making a family tree map, having to stop reading, damn how hard can reading a book get?
 
Deadly said:
You guys seem to say Silmarillion is a tough read but how so? Making a family tree map, having to stop reading, damn how hard can reading a book get?
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IIRC, it opens with a lengthy list of who begat who. Riveting reading in the Bible, just as much so here too. Extremely dry.
 
Deadly said:
You guys seem to say Silmarillion is a tough read but how so? Making a family tree map, having to stop reading, damn how hard can reading a book get?
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It's really not hard reading unless you have difficulty reading a book that isn't just one single narrative. It tells dozens of stories with dozens of characters over thousands of years time. It's literally like reading the old testament in places. It's not hard to understand, sometimes though you forget the relationship between turgon and feanor and have to look that shit up :D
 
JB1981 said:
Watched the HD marathon on TNT a few weekends ago and the effects have not held up well at all. Gollum still looks pretty OK but a lot of the matte composite shots and the CGI armies (using that 'Massive' tech') look pretty bad. After seeing AVATAR, the effects in LOTR look very dated, but this is true for most movies. I would say that the Star Wars prequel trilogy had more 'convincing' effects overall.
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I like how appropriate your tag is.


MagicJackBauer said:
Tolkien created an amazing world no doubt but he was an awful writer.
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This statement applies to J.K Rowling as well. I like the world she created, but her actual writing is very poor. Tolkien was not a awful writer in the least, just a bit long winded. He was very eloquent and descriptive.
 
Deadly said:
You guys seem to say Silmarillion is a tough read but how so? Making a family tree map, having to stop reading, damn how hard can reading a book get?
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Its like reading an ancient Greek saga, and biblical poetry, across various translations, hard. There are a lot of terms, a lot of names, multiple versions of those names, and a pretty large cast of characters, that include not just gods, their angels and beasts, and the heroes of various races, but also the land itself and its features.

Not to dissuade you though. The Lord of the Rings saga as a whole would take just a couple of paragraphs in the Silmarillion. Its literally the history of Middle Earth from the moment of creation to the end of the Second Age, as it has been told from the perspective of the peoples of the West. Its not a complete history of the world, but it is a complete history, and a much wider and sweeping one than in LOTR.

Man, I guess I'm going to watch all three movies again. :) Fellowship of the Ring is my favorite of the three, as its the only time we have the entire Fellowship. I also remember seeing it on opening day and thinking that this was exactly the kind of story we needed, at that time.

Also, randomly, what got me to read the Silmarillion at all was finding a nice hardcover first print of it, years ago in the middle of a random pile of used books in some tiny book store in New Orleans. Got it for $5, and have loved the thing ever since.
 
Combichristoffersen said:
This is the correct answer. Magic in LotR != magic in Harry Potter.



Gandalf was a maiar (the closest equivalent in Christianity would probably be an angel), so he was a rather powerful being. In Return of the King he was most likely the most powerful of the istari, as he had died and been 'reborn', so he would easily be one of the five most powerful beings in Middle-earth, probably at the same level as Saruman, but definitely below Sauron (provided that Sauron had the ring in his possession).
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So why did he do so little then?

legend166 said:
I'll let an even bigger LotR nerd than myself explain it in more detail, but Gandalf was a Maiar (basically angels). They were sent to Middle Earth tro assist people against Sauron. But they were given the form of old dudes to limit their power and were told simply to be guides, and not simply kick ass like they could.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandalf
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Blargh
 
Ether_Snake said:
So why did he do so little then?
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He did so little because the Gods learned the hard way that they shouldn't try to guide the people of Middle Earth directly. For their previous troubles they broke the world apart, got invaded and then shunned. All they will do by the Third Age is subtle.

To the extent that Gandalf showed his strength, he only did it when facing ancient foes like the Balrog of Moria, and to undo some of the workings of Sauron on the minds of men. The overall idea throughout LOTR is that the old age is over, and mankind has to deal with their own damn problems.
 
Combichristoffersen said:
I love the first and third equally much (I fucking cried at the 'you bow to no one' scene, at Sam carryiing Frodo on his back up Mount Doom and at Sam and Frodo reminiscing of the Shire at 'the end of all things'), but Two Towers definitely suffers from being the 'inbetween' movie.
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Me to bro I cried like a damn girl.

I disagree about Two Towers. I might be blind to any faults of LOTR but Two Towers kicks ass and has one of the best beginnings of any movie ever.
 
thebaroness said:
Tolkien was not a awful writer in the least, just a bit long winded. He was very eloquent and descriptive.
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Yes. Tolkien was a good writer. What some fail to recognize is, styles change. Lovecraft blows on too, but it's part of the charm.

OTOH, it doesn't matter how great a writer you are if you die and someone hurriedly crams your old notes and loosely related writings, writes up a bunch of stuff off the top of his head to bridge gaps etc into a single volume and calls it a story.

The Silmilarillion was an incomplete work.

BruceLeroy said:
I disagree about Two Towers. I might be blind to any faults of LOTR but Two Towers kicks ass and has one of the best beginnings of any movie ever.
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The book was far better in every way. The movie pointlessly diverged on important points way too much.
 
NullPointer said:
He did so little because the Gods learned the hard way that they shouldn't try to guide the people of Middle Earth directly. For their previous troubles they broke the world apart, got invaded and then shunned. All they will do by the Third Age is subtle.

To the extent that Gandalf showed his strength, he only did it when facing ancient foes like the Balrog of Moria, and to undo some of the workings of Sauron on the minds of men. The overall idea throughout LOTR is that the old age is over, and mankind has to deal with their own damn problems.
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Not only that, he still did a lot. He was pretty much at the forefront of rallying everyone together, creating the Fellowship, etc.
 
Freshmaker said:
The book was far better in every way. The movie pointlessly diverged on important points way too much.
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Eh, I feel for Jackson in this. He had to come up with something for Frodo and Sam to do, simply due to the timeline of the books. I do agree that Aragorn's great horse adventure was stupid, though.
 
MagicJackBauer said:
Harry Potter > LOTR
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However much I like Harry Potter... No. Just no.

Deadly said:
You guys seem to say Silmarillion is a tough read but how so? Making a family tree map, having to stop reading, damn how hard can reading a book get?
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It's mainly due to the massive amount of names of valar, maiar, elves, places and whatnot IMO. Even with the appendice with the list of names I got fucking dizzy :lol

BruceLeeRoy said:
I disagree about Two Towers. I might be blind to any faults of LOTR but Two Towers kicks ass and has one of the best beginnings of any movie ever.
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Don't get me wrong, TT isn't bad, I just find it to suffer a bit from being the middle part of the trilogy. That said, the battle of Helm's Deep was possibly the most epic shit I'd ever seen the first time I saw TT :D
 
Dabookerman said:
Wow, this thread has gone places.

Anyone hooking me up with some Rule 34 Huan - Sauron?
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Couldn't find any #34 with Huan, but I did find the Mouth of Sauron getting in the groove with Galadriel :lol
 
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So awesome. :lol
Boromir is my favorite character from the movie series, always get a lump in my throat during his death scene. Best death, or one of, in a movie btw.
"They took the little ones D:" :lol
 
legend166 said:
Not only that, he still did a lot. He was pretty much at the forefront of rallying everyone together, creating the Fellowship, etc.
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Yea, I didn't even realize he had a huge strategy going on the whole time.

I read somewhere in the appendixes that he did the whole mission to kill Smaug so that a re-established kingdom in Dale and Erebor would be able to keep Mordor's long reach from getting into Eriador and possibly threatening Rivendell and the Grey Havens. And the whole idea in his head came from a "chance meeting" of Thorin at the Prancing Pony. lol
 
legend166 said:
Eh, I feel for Jackson in this. He had to come up with something for Frodo and Sam to do, simply due to the timeline of the books. I do agree that Aragorn's great horse adventure was stupid, though.
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He didnt' really do anything new with Sam and Frodo though. He was busy crapping on the Ents. He spent all that time building up Sarumon only to have him instantly turn irrelevant. (All those stupid tunnel sequences, and we knew they were just going to be flooded and mooted anyway.) He reshuffled Helm's Deep for the worse...
 
Freshmaker said:
He didnt' really do anything new with Sam and Frodo though. He was busy crapping on the Ents. He spent all that time building up Sarumon only to have him instantly turn irrelevant. (All those stupid tunnel sequences, and we knew they were just going to be flooded and mooted anyway.) He reshuffled Helm's Deep for the worse...
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Wait, what was your problem with the ents? The thing that sucked about how he handled them was having the hobbits trick them into doing something about saruman. Saruman was owned by the ents and trapped in his towers in the books, and they did divert the river and pool the water into isengard, and did fill up all of saruman's tunnels and whatnot.

Agree on helm's deep. Just the entire handling of rohan in the two towers was garbage.
 
Freshmaker said:
Yes. Tolkien was a good writer. What some fail to recognize is, styles change. Lovecraft blows on too, but it's part of the charm.

OTOH, it doesn't matter how great a writer you are if you die and someone hurriedly crams your old notes and loosely related writings, writes up a bunch of stuff off the top of his head to bridge gaps etc into a single volume and calls it a story.

The Silmilarillion was an incomplete work.



The book was far better in every way. The movie pointlessly diverged on important points way too much.
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The movie was already 3 hours....How much longer did you want it to be?

While I agree the book is better than the movie, that doesn't take away from the movie which I still think is awesome.

For movie purposes..having the elves there made more sense than having Eomer be there from the beginning and having another character come at the end to save them. That would have just been another character to introduce and what not for the mass audience that wouldn't have been the best idea.
 
Combichristoffersen said:
Wait, you disliked the handling of Helm's Deep and Rohan? Why? Just asking due to curiosity.
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Elves at helm's deep, shield surfing, unaccountably stupid parts of the battle like aragorn and gimli sneaking out of the front door and somehow holding the bridge for no reason. Removal of the huorns (even in the EE they don't play any real important role)

As for rohan, I thought the character of theoden was shat upon in jackson's version. He was a whining pussy basically from the time he is cured by gandalf until the third movie. Stupid changes like aragorn wanting to spare wormtongue for no reason while theoden wants to kill him. The book's scene in that regard made sense, in the movie it was like...wait, why does aragorn care? Made no sense and pissed on the strong character from the book.
 
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