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[Combichristoffersen]

Tell ya what, when I do get around to reading it, god knows when, I'll make a thread and then we can all bullshit about it and how (hopefully) awesome it is. I'm enjoying this but it sucks that I can contribute nothing other than asking questions. :lol

No problem, always nice to do a bit of Tolkien nerding/discussion :lol

 

[Brimstone]

Regarding the Witch-king, I enjoy the painting by Angus Mcbride.


After the battering ram Grond breaches Minas Tirith, the Witch-king of Angmar is confronted by Gandalf mounted on Shadowfax.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Regarding the Witch-king, I enjoy the painting by Angus Mcbride.


After the battering ram Grond breaches Minas Tirith, the Witch-king of Angmar is confronted by Gandalf mounted on Shadowfax.

http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/pictures/fantasy/Tolkien/angus010.gif

Nice. I've never seen that one before.

BTW, any of you read Children of Hurin and/or Legend of sigurd and Gudrun? I've had Hurin since it was released, and ordered Sigurd & Gudrun yesterday, but haven't had the time to read them :lol Also have a bunch of other Tolkien-related books I haven't had the time to read through (LotR reader's guide, Letters of JRRT, Unfinished Tales, History of ME I-XII and JRRT companion and guide) :lol

 

[I should be doing hw]

Nice. I've never seen that one before.

BTW, any of you read Children of Hurin and/or Legend of sigurd and Gudrun? I've had Hurin since it was released, and ordered Sigurd & Gudrun yesterday, but haven't had the time to read them :lol Also have a bunch of other Tolkien-related books I haven't had the time to read through (LotR reader's guide, Letters of JRRT, Unfinished Tales, History of ME I-XII and JRRT companion and guide) :lol

Then you start writing the fan fiction after you've read them all I would imagine :lol

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Then you start writing the fan fiction after you've read them all I would imagine :lol

Don't think that would be a good idea, it would probably just end up with poorly written LotR x Harry Potter x Star Wars x Cthulhu Mythos crossovers :lol

 

[WyndhamPrice]

I'm pretty sure New Line (now WB) optioned the rights to "The Children of Hurin" as soon as the book was released, so if we're ever going to get any pre-Hobbit films (unlikely) it'll probably be based on that.

Which would be fucked up.

Totally awesome to see, but fucked up.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I was always amazed at how some of the shots during the siege of Gondor were eerily similar to the opening movie of Final Fantasy XI.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

To the guy who asked about Aragorn's backstory, check out the new fanmade film, Born of Hope

And then there's The Hunt for Gollum too.

 

[NullPointer]

I think it took me six attempts before finally falling into the groove enough to finish the Silmarillion. Its no so much a book, as a series of different stories and sagas, with some in denser prose then others.

Funny thing though? I never thought Morgoth was an asshole. The Valar wanted perfection and symmetry and control, and Melkor always added "spice" and "change" to their creations. If it wasn't for Melkor, Arda would be a static, unchanging place, laid out and hand placed with care. Because of Melkor we have seasons, animals have horns and claws, mountains are worn and jagged, and nature is, well, messy and dangerous. He only became king revenge-monger once he was cast out by the rest.

Another interesting tidbit, and I'm not sure if it was from Lost Tales or Hidden Tales, or what have you, but there is a discussion that Gandalf and Saruman have at one of their White Councils where Saruman gets fed up with Gandalf's smoking up the place with his pipe. Gandalf gives an awesome speech about the various virtues that pipe-weed can instill upon the mind and basically shuts Saruman up. Now, Saruman being the petulant but curious fuck that he is, starts to investigate things on his own. Through agents he acquires some of the Halfling leaf from the Shire, and keeps it in his tower, in secret, so he can try out this smoking for himself. These were his first dealings with the Shire, and he eventually expanded upon these contacts during the events of the War of the Rings.

Even better, the movie hints at these things, both by having Saruman get on Gandalf's case about the Halfling Leaf clearly slowing his mind, and by having Old Toby pipe weed found in his cellar, to be smoked by Merry and Pippin when they liberated Orthanc.

Good stuff. Just thought I'd share.

 

[Darklord]

Don't think that would be a good idea, it would probably just end up with poorly written LotR x Harry Potter x Star Wars x Cthulhu Mythos crossovers :lol

You mean like...

"Harry, look!" explained Ron with a surprised and shocked look on his face. 'It's...Dumbledore!"
'That's impossible, Ron!" said Hermione.
There standing in the dawn mist was a tall man in white robes, with a thick beard and wrinkled skin.
'That's not Dumbledore' said Frodo. 'It's...'
'Yes, it is I' the deep voice said. 'Gandalf the Black'
'The Black?!' Frodo said with shock.
'Yes, I am Dark Gandalf and I am the destroyer of worlds!' Gandalf said in a deep booming voice. He looked so much like Gandalf but as they looked upon him in terror they noticed his pure black eyes, grayish skin and sunken cheeks.
'But how did you get here? Where did you come from?' Pippin said.
'It is simple. Voldemort bought me here, he has returned and more powerful than ever before'
Hermione gasped. Ron swore but Harry just stared. 'That's impossible, we killed Voldemort two years ago! He's gone! We found his seven horcruxes!' said Harry.
Gandalf laughed and smiled. 'Ah, but that you see is where you are wrong. Before his second fall, he created one more horcrux, a dangerous chance, yes, but he knew he would need it'. He drew his staff and pointed at all of them. 'And now I must say...you die'
A powerful flash and an ear splitting bang and they were thrown to the floor. However, he wasn't injured at all.
'You will do no such thing!' came a new voice. 'I am Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the USS Enterprise and I demand you stop this at once!'
Gandalf spun around and fired a bolt of fire at Picard and stuck him in the chest. He was thrown back by the force of the shot and laid crumpled on the ground.
'No!' cried Hermione. 'Harry, we have to do something!'
But before anyone could act harry saw a huge red bolt slam into the ground and exploded. For a moment he thought it was a stunning spell but as he looked up into the sky he saw a huge ship far up in the clouds. The imperial fleet had arrived moments before and was watching, waiting to see who the first aggressor was.
Gandalf saw the gigantic ships lower from the clouds and started to send squadron after squadron of Tie Fighters from their hanger bays and spun on the spot and vanished.
Ron ran over to Picard to see if he was still alive. He felt his chest, his heart still pounded. The strong, powerful heart of a well endowed man. Ron caressed Picards face and lowed himself so he was inches from his face. Ron moved his hands across Picards lips and whispered 'Wake up'.

 

[BattlestarDT]

"Harry, look!" explained Ron with a surprised and shocked look on his face. 'It's...Dumbledore!"
'That's impossible, Ron!" said Hermione.
There standing in the dawn mist was a tall man in white robes, with a thick beard and wrinkled skin.
'That's not Dumbledore' said Frodo. 'It's...'
'Yes, it is I' the deep voice said. 'Gandalf the Black'
'The Black?!' Frodo said with shock.
'Yes, I am Dark Gandalf and I am the destroyer of worlds!' Gandalf said in a deep booming voice. He looked so much like Gandalf but as they looked upon him in terror they noticed his pure black eyes, grayish skin and sunken cheeks.
'But how did you get here? Where did you come from?' Pippin said.
'It is simple. Voldemort bought me here, he has returned and more powerful than ever before'
Hermione gasped. Ron swore but Harry just stared. 'That's impossible, we killed Voldemort two years ago! He's gone! We found his seven horcruxes!' said Harry.
Gandalf laughed and smiled. 'Ah, but that you see is where you are wrong. Before his second fall, he created one more horcrux, a dangerous chance, yes, but he knew he would need it'. He drew his staff and pointed at all of them. 'And now I must say...you die'
A powerful flash and an ear splitting bang and they were thrown to the floor. However, he wasn't injured at all.
'You will do no such thing!' came a new voice. 'I am Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the USS Enterprise and I demand you stop this at once!'
Gandalf spun around and fired a bolt of fire at Picard and stuck him in the chest. He was thrown back by the force of the shot and laid crumpled on the ground.
'No!' cried Hermione. 'Harry, we have to do something!'
But before anyone could act harry saw a huge red bolt slam into the ground and exploded. For a moment he thought it was a stunning spell but as he looked up into the sky he saw a huge ship far up in the clouds. The imperial fleet had arrived moments before and was watching, waiting to see who the first aggressor was.
Gandalf saw the gigantic ships lower from the clouds and started to send squadron after squadron of Tie Fighters from their hanger bays and spun on the spot and vanished.
Ron ran over to Picard to see if he was still alive. He felt his chest, his heart still pounded. The strong, powerful heart of a well endowed man. Ron caressed Picards face and lowed himself so he was inches from his face. Ron moved his hands across Picards lips and whispered 'Wake up'.

WANT. Don't leave us hanging.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Another interesting tidbit, and I'm not sure if it was from Lost Tales or Hidden Tales, or what have you, but there is a discussion that Gandalf and Saruman have at one of their White Councils where Saruman gets fed up with Gandalf's smoking up the place with his pipe. Gandalf gives an awesome speech about the various virtues that pipe-weed can instill upon the mind and basically shuts Saruman up. Now, Saruman being the petulant but curious fuck that he is, starts to investigate things on his own. Through agents he acquires some of the Halfling leaf from the Shire, and keeps it in his tower, in secret, so he can try out this smoking for himself. These were his first dealings with the Shire, and he eventually expanded upon these contacts during the events of the War of the Rings.

Even better, the movie hints at these things, both by having Saruman get on Gandalf's case about the Halfling Leaf clearly slowing his mind, and by having Old Toby pipe weed found in his cellar, to be smoked by Merry and Pippin when they liberated Orthanc.

Good stuff. Just thought I'd share.

I don't think Tolkien ever intended the Halfling leaf to be weed, but the movies (and the books, for that matter) make them seem suspiciously much alike. Gandalf was a hippie :lol

You mean like...

Tell me how it ends! Is there tentacle rape involving Grand Moff Tarkin and Cthulhu?

 

[NullPointer]

I don't think Tolkien ever intended the Halfling leaf to be weed, but the movies (and the books, for that matter) make them seem suspiciously much alike. Gandalf was a hippie :lol

Too true.

But you have to admit, anybody who could come up with a character like Tom Bombadil, who wasn't in the movie (thank the fucking gods) just HAD to be smoking something.

One more tidbit from the Silmarillion for those who haven't read it. I always thought it was amazing that the world of Middle Earth is *actually* flat, so that one can sail directly from the western shores to the Undying Isles. Its just that the Gods/Valar have so removed themselves from Humanity, as they see all but some of the Numenoreans as "fallen" to Sauron. So for Humanity (or all non-elvish races I'd guess) the world is round, and any attempts to sail west will lead you around the world, as we know it.

I just wasn't expecting that kind of multi-dimensionality in a fantasy saga like this.

 

[elrechazado]

Too true.

But you have to admit, anybody who could come up with a character like Tom Bombadil, who wasn't in the movie (thank the fucking gods) just HAD to be smoking something.

One more tidbit from the Silmarillion for those who haven't read it. I always thought it was amazing that the world of Middle Earth is *actually* flat, so that one can sail directly from the western shores to the Undying Isles. Its just that the Gods/Valar have so removed themselves from Humanity, as they see all but some of the Numenoreans as "fallen" to Sauron. So for Humanity (or all non-elvish races I'd guess) the world is round, and any attempts to sail west will lead you around the world, as we know it.

I just wasn't expecting that kind of multi-dimensionality in a fantasy saga like this.

It used to be flat, then was changed.

 

[Mr. Sam]

The strong, powerful heart of a well endowed man.

OK, I lol'd.

 

[NullPointer]

It used to be flat, then was changed.

I thought it still was flat, for Elves and a few chosen ones, and that it was an enchantment, an illusion of roundness, that hid the gods from man. The Undying Isles are there, just a small journey from the western shore, for those who have eyes to see it.

Edit: From the Wiki.

After the destruction of Númenor, Arda was made round. Aman (The Undying Lands) was taken out of the world, and could only be reached by the Elves, following the straight road that was granted to them. As Aman was taken away from Arda, new lands and continents were created east and west of Middle-earth.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Too true.

But you have to admit, anybody who could come up with a character like Tom Bombadil, who wasn't in the movie (thank the fucking gods) just HAD to be smoking something.

One more tidbit from the Silmarillion for those who haven't read it. I always thought it was amazing that the world of Middle Earth is *actually* flat, so that one can sail directly from the western shores to the Undying Isles. Its just that the Gods/Valar have so removed themselves from Humanity, as they see all but some of the Numenoreans as "fallen" to Sauron. So for Humanity (or all non-elvish races I'd guess) the world is round, and any attempts to sail west will lead you around the world, as we know it.

I just wasn't expecting that kind of multi-dimensionality in a fantasy saga like this.

I like the Bombadil part of the book, but it would've messed up the pacing of the movies. I would've liked them to include the encounter with the barrow-wight tho.

I remember Arda originally being flat, but I thought they made it round for everyone? Also, a lot of people seem to have the idea that Middle-earth is set on some fictional planet, while it is actually supposed to be our very own earth, but in a fictional period of time. This article about the astronomy of Middle-earth and how it compares to astronomy in 'our' world is actually very interesting:
http://www.physics.ccsu.edu/larsen/astronomy_of_middle.htm

More here: http://www.physics.ccsu.edu/larsen/tolkien.html

 

[GDGF]

It used to be flat, then was changed.

Yeah I just found out about this a few months ago (in the last LOTR thread actually) and I was pretty blown away. That is such an awesome concept. From what I can recall only ships made by a certain Elvin shipwright can sail in a straight line over the horizion to the Undying Lands (and only Elves and friends of Elves with permission can make the journey)


I need to finish the Silmarillion. The book on tape has a great reader.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Yeah I just found out about this a few months ago (in the last LOTR thread actually) and I was pretty blown away. That is such an awesome concept. From what I can recall only ships made by a certain Elvin shipwright can sail in a straight line over the horizion to the Undying Lands (and only Elves and friends of Elves with permission can make the journey)

You're probably thinking of Cirdan the shipwright. He's one of the few elves with a beard, which probably means he was seriously old as fuck :lol

 

[Staccat0]

I was hoping we were gonna call this sacred cow out tonight... another time I guess.

 

[NullPointer]

I was hoping we were gonna call this sacred cow out tonight... another time I guess.

Go back to your hole.

 

[BattlestarDT]

I got this book called the Atlas of Middle Earth a few years ago, it shows how after Ar-Pharazon attacked the Undying Lands that they made the earth round.

There was this fucking awesome map, it showed like a side of a globe and how Arda was round, and then an arrow pointing straight, ignoring the curvature of the planet, and if you followed (or were allowed to follow) this path it took you to Valinor.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

I got this book called the Atlas of Middle Earth a few years ago, it shows how after Ar-Pharazon attacked the Undying Lands that they made the earth round.

There was this fucking awesome map, it showed like a side of a globe and how Arda was round, and then an arrow pointing straight, ignoring the curvature of the planet, and if you followed (or were allowed to follow) this path it took you to Valinor.

Sounds sweet. Might have to order that one

The science of Middle-earth is also an interesting read. Nothing that should be taken too seriously, and it's probably of interest to hardcore Tolkien nerds only, but it's still quite nice :lol

 

[Chao]

Honestly, I'd have no problem with Jackson going back to LotR and cleaning up the CGI in a few years for an anniversary special or something. I know Lucas turned people off the idea, but I think it would be fine for this. Fix Legolas riding that damn troll in FotR.

I laughed out loud when I watched that scene at the theater. I mean, when he jumps off the back of the troll...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYO84Wy2YQs#t=03m08s

 

[BattlestarDT]

I got a picture of it from my phone. The peach and white is the ocean and land, so you can see the world curving away, the straight way kind of passes into another dimension and takes you to Valinor.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

http://i50.tinypic.com/25p1pmt.jpg

I got a picture of it from my phone. The peach and white is the ocean and land, so you can see the world curving away, the straight way kind of passes into another dimension and takes you to Valinor.

Awesome. I definitely think I'll get that one as soon as I go on my next Tolkien haul

 

[BattlestarDT]

Awesome. I definitely think I'll get that one as soon as I go on my next Tolkien haul

Yea those maps really expand on the world as a whole, I didn't really even know that everything in LOTR happens in the NW corner of Middle-Earth, there are like 3 other huge continents, and even speculation about other Numenorian states or colonies still left behind from their colonization

 

[kIdMuScLe]

any good hardcover books of the LOTR and the Silmarillion? i'm not a fan of paperback editions.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

any good hardcover books of the LOTR and the Silmarillion? i'm not a fan of paperback editions.

You should be able to find hardcover editions of both LotR and Silmarillion in most decent bookstores, I guess. Might want to pick up the Hobbit too, if you don't already own it.

 

[elrechazado]

any good hardcover books of the LOTR and the Silmarillion? i'm not a fan of paperback editions.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0395489326/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I have this set and they're nice. My silmarillion is paperback though.

 

[BattlestarDT]

any good hardcover books of the LOTR and the Silmarillion? i'm not a fan of paperback editions.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_0_22?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=lord+of+the+rings+hardcover&x=0&y=0&sprefix=lord+of+the+rings+hard


If you are asking for where to find LOTR hardcovers that is a pretty good link. If you were asking for other good hardcover books in the LOTR universe you should check out The Children of Hurin.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

My silmarillion is paperback though.

Same here :lol I should get around to pick up hardcover editions of the Hobbit and Silmarillion, but there are so many other Tolkien-related books I want first :lol

 

[kIdMuScLe]

this book contains all 3 stories right? if it does, i'm gonna go with that one. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0395595118/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Tideas]

No one really knows for sure. The closest Tolkien ever came to giving an explanation was a brief mention of how Bombadil was a manifestation of the spirit of nature and the surroundings of Tolkien's childhood home (or something like that, I'd have to look it up to find the exact quote).



That definitely is the best, and simplest, answer. No one knows what he is, he just is.



Considering even Gandalf feared Sauron.. No. Gandalf was powerful, and they were both of the same stock of divine beings, but Sauron was, if he would have had the ring in his possession, far beyond even Gandalf in terms of power. Considering Sauron could most likely whoop the ass of a balrog if he wanted to, and even Gandalf feared the balrog of Moria, I think I can safely assure you that had Sauron gotten his hands on the One Ring, he could've mauled Gandalf with the flick of a thumb.



Haradrim or Southrons if you like.



This. If they actually tried flying into Mordor, Sauron would've noticed it immediately, and thrown everything he could of nazguls, fell beasts, black magic and whatnot at them. And even though Gandalf was a powerful divine being, he wasn't the Superman of Middle-earth, as he was definitely not invincible.

And now, the best theory regarding Bombadil: Tom Bombadil and the Witch King are one and the same :lol

here's what I don't understand. how did Sauren make the ring of power? it just seems weird than an all powerful person, makes something, that somehow inherently gives him more power, when all it does for mortals is just make them invisible.

Someone wanna explain?

 

[Combichristoffersen]

this book contains all 3 stories right? if it does, i'm gonna go with that one. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0395595118/?tag=neogaf0e-20

It contains all three volumes of the Lord of the Rings, yes.

here's what I don't understand. how did Sauren make the ring of power? it just seems weird than an all powerful person, makes something, that somehow inherently gives him more power, when all it does for mortals is just make them invisible.

Someone wanna explain?

To be honest, I'm not really privy to an exact and definite explanation to that, but I'd guess that Sauron made the ring like any other ring, by forging it. But unlike other rings, it was infused with a large part of Sauron's malice, will and power. So the ring didn't really make Sauron stronger than he already was (in fact, it weakened him), but it gave him control over most of the other rings of power, enabling him to control them. When Sauron lost the ring, he was left in a weakened state, as the ring contained much of his power (this is the most likely explanation for Sauron himself never making an appearance on the battlefield during the War of the Ring, he was probably aware that he was too weak without the ring), but if Sauron had regained the ring, he would have regained all his power.

Now, as for why humans couldn't harness the power, bear in mind that the power was directly tied to Sauron, so only Sauron alone could control the power of the ring. All the ring could do to humans was make them invisible, and bring out the negative sides of their personality, their greed and desire to own and control the ring, which would eventually enslave them and make them fall prey to Sauron's will.

Sorry for the tl;dr rambling :lol

 

[Narag]

here's what I don't understand. how did Sauren make the ring of power? it just seems weird than an all powerful person, makes something, that somehow inherently gives him more power, when all it does for mortals is just make them invisible.

Someone wanna explain?

Pretty sure it did more than that for mortals but they had to know how to use it.

 

[elrechazado]

here's what I don't understand. how did Sauren make the ring of power? it just seems weird than an all powerful person, makes something, that somehow inherently gives him more power, when all it does for mortals is just make them invisible.

Someone wanna explain?

basic answer is he didn't make a magic ring that externally has a ton of power in it. He took his existing power, dumped it into the ring, and connected that ring with others that he helped create so he could use that ring to control others. So it had his own essence in it, and wasn't just a powerful item like a sword that just anyone could pick up and use. Invisibility was just a side effect of the user entering the wraith world in a way.

Therefore sauron is destroyed when the ring is for all practical purposes. It's more detailed than that, but that's the quick and dirty.

 

[The Chosen One]

...which is precisely why it was garbage. It was just a stupid moment. I have a hard time believing that whatever magic that was designed to protect him against physicality would be cast to be gender-specific as opposed to "man" being representative of mankind.

Fucking stupid moment.

I wasn't a big fan of that moment either when I first saw it theaters. But then I read the books and I was surprised to see almost the exact line in the book. So I decided cut Peter Jackson some slack for being true to the book even though the moment was extremely corny. Maybe it could have been delivered better?

But yeah it's definitely a crowd favorite despite the minority of haters. My wife and sister both loved it. Maybe because it's one of the few Girl Power moments in the whole trilogy.

 

[BattlestarDT]

Sauron was a Maia of Aule, the Chief Vala of Craftsmen, so he was inherently skilled in how to actually make a ring.

Sauron put his power into the One Ring, so that the other Rings of Power would fall under its control. If you have multiple great Kings who now fall under your control and domination it seems like a pretty good plan.

The first Darklord, Morgoth, of whom Sauron was his Chief Lieutenant, contested the Valar and tried to control the very fabric of the earth, and wrest control of Arda away from God. Sauron was a much smarter Darklord, in that he simply used religion and domination of minds to control the actual people who lived in Middle-Earth, and even though he was orders of magnitude less powerful than Morgoth, he was arguably more successful as the head of a Dark Empire.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Sauron was a Maia of Aule, the Chief Vala of Craftsmen, so he was inherently skilled in how to actually make a ring.

Sauron put his power into the One Ring, so that the other Rings of Power would fall under its control. If you have multiple great Kings who now fall under your control and domination it seems like a pretty good plan.

The first Darklord, Morgoth, of whom Sauron was his Chief Lieutenant, contested the Valar and tried to control the very fabric of the earth, and wrest control of Arda away from God. Sauron was a much smarter Darklord, in that he simply used religion and domination of minds to control the actual people who lived in Middle-Earth, and even though he was orders of magnitude less powerful than Morgoth, he was arguably more successful as the head of a Dark Empire.

Add to that the fact that Sauron was one of the main causes of the fall of Numenor, as he poisoned the minds of the Numenorean kings and people, turning them towards black magic, human sacrifice, Morgoth worship and finally egging them on to invade Valinor. Morgoth was definitely the most powerful of the two, but Sauron was arguably the most successful one (due to his cunning trickery).

 

[elrechazado]

and even though he was orders of magnitude less powerful than Morgoth, he was arguably more successful as the head of a Dark Empire.

Hmm, I dunno about that. Morgoth defeated the noldor repeatedly, armies of powerful elves and men, killed greats like feanor and fingolfin, and it took the host of the valar to finally end his empire, which lasted millenia longer than sauron's.

Sauron was defeated repeatedly by humans alone, elves and humans, and even the white counsel. He was defeated by the numenoreans, who were squashed by the valar for getting too uppity. He was defeated by the last alliance. He was defeated by the white council (driven out of dol guldur), and defeated as we all know in lotr. As I think elrond says in lotr, sauron was just a shade of what morgoth was, not even close.

/really nerding it up in this thread

 

[BattlestarDT]

I wasn't a big fan of that moment either when I first saw it theaters. But then I read the books and I was surprised to see almost the exact line in the book. So I decided cut Peter Jackson some slack for being true to the book even though the moment was extremely corny. Maybe it could have been delivered better?

But yeah it's definitely a crowd favorite despite the minority of haters. My wife and sister both loved it. Maybe because it's one of the few Girl Power moments in the whole trilogy.

The prophecy was that no man would kill him, so a woman and a hobbit kill him. Keep in mind also, that the sword Merry uses to stab him was made by the the Dunedain in Arnor, and the Witch King was their chief enemy during that time (about 1k-2k years before LOTR events) so it was imbued with special magic pertaining to the undoing of the WK.

In the book the set-up is more effective, because whenever they mention the WK, they usually list long string of titles (Chief of the Nazgul, Lord of Minas Morgul, etc). Everytime hobbits are mentioned it is usually accompanied by how hobbits never really did anything, are small players on the world stage (Denethor also makes this remark in the book IIRC). There are several passages in the books of how Eowyn wants to fight and make a name for herself (Aragorn tells her to stay and mind the people of Rohan in Dunharrow, she says she wants to win glory and not sit in a cage until old age accepts the fact that she is a woman).

When Prince Imrahil sees Eowyn stricken on the field of battle he says "Have even the women of Rohan come to our aid?" A soldier answers "Nay, only one, and greatly we rue it." Right after this when Merry is trying to go to the Houses of Healing, he gets left behind until Pippin finds him, and Pippin says something like "well in the middle of the death of King Theoden and a huge battle its now wonder a little hobbit was left behind", and Gandalf says he should have been bourn in honor to the city, this again shows how it seems the most insignificant people have a huge impact.

So it is not a "girl power" moment.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Hmm, I dunno about that. Morgoth defeated the noldor repeatedly, armies of powerful elves and men, killed greats like feanor and fingolfin, and it took the host of the valar to finally end his empire, which lasted millenia longer than sauron's.

Sauron was defeated repeatedly by humans alone, elves and humans, and even the white counsel. He was defeated by the numenoreans, who were squashed by the valar for getting too uppity. He was defeated by the last alliance. He was defeated by the white council (driven out of dol guldur), and defeated as we all know in lotr. As I think elrond says in lotr, sauron was just a shade of what morgoth was, not even close.

/really nerding it up in this thread

Tolkien nerding is good nerding.

Anyway, what's ironic is how Morgoth could completely devastate the noldor for so long, but had to have his ass saved by balrogs when Ungoliant wanted to FHUTA :lol

 

[elrechazado]

Tolkien nerding is good nerding.

Anyway, what's ironic is how Morgoth could completely devastate the noldor for so long, but had to have his ass saved by balrogs when Ungoliant wanted to FHUTA :lol

Yeah, ungoliant made him a bitch so hard

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Yeah, ungoliant made him a bitch so hard

:lol

BTW, for those of you who still haven't read them: The very secret diaries

 

[BattlestarDT]

Hmm, I dunno about that. Morgoth defeated the noldor repeatedly, armies of powerful elves and men, killed greats like feanor and fingolfin, and it took the host of the valar to finally end his empire, which lasted millenia longer than sauron's.

Sauron was defeated repeatedly by humans alone, elves and humans, and even the white counsel. He was defeated by the numenoreans, who were squashed by the valar for getting too uppity. He was defeated by the last alliance. He was defeated by the white council (driven out of dol guldur), and defeated as we all know in lotr. As I think elrond says in lotr, sauron was just a shade of what morgoth was, not even close.

/really nerding it up in this thread

If you ARE saying that Morgoth wasn't as powerful (I think that you are?) you disproved your own point. This is what it took to bring Morgoth down:

1. Armies Vanyar and Noldor elves who had been tutored for time immemorial by the Gods on Earth .

2. The Valar and Maiar leading/assisting the armies of elves who had to come to overthrow him.

3. Earendil (a dude who took a Silmaril and actually turned his ship into a star...wtf) along with a host of great Eagles to turn back Morgoth's Winged Dragons

4. Even this force took decades to defeat Morgoth once they landed in Beleriand.


Sauron was defeated by a gay couple (Frodo and Sam) and and old dude riding a fast horse.

 

[elrechazado]

If you ARE saying that Morgoth wasn't as powerful (I think that you are?) you disproved your own point. This is what it took to bring Morgoth down:

1. Armies Vanyar and Noldor elves who had been tutored for time immemorial by the Gods on Earth .

2. The Valar and Maiar leading/assisting the armies of elves who had to come to overthrow him.

3. Earendil (a dude who took a Silmaril and actually turned his ship into a star...wtf) along with a host of great Eagles to turn back Morgoth's Winged Dragons

4. Even this force took decades to defeat Morgoth once they landed in Beleriand.


Sauron was defeated by a gay couple (Frodo and Sam) and and old dude riding a fast horse.

I think you should read what I wrote again man. :lol :lol :lol

 

[Combichristoffersen]

If you ARE saying that Morgoth wasn't as powerful (I think that you are?) you disproved your own point. This is what it took to bring Morgoth down:

1. Armies Vanyar and Noldor elves who had been tutored for time immemorial by the Gods on Earth .

2. The Valar and Maiar leading/assisting the armies of elves who had to come to overthrow him.

3. Earendil (a dude who took a Silmaril and actually turned his ship into a star...wtf) along with a host of great Eagles to turn back Morgoth's Winged Dragons

4. Even this force took decades to defeat Morgoth once they landed in Beleriand.


Sauron was defeated by a gay couple (Frodo and Sam) and and old dude riding a fast horse.

I don't think he's arguing that Morgoth wasn't as powerful as Sauron, but that Sauron wasn't necessarily more succesful than Morgoth.

As for gay couples.. What Tolkien officially said about elf sex

 

[BattlestarDT]

:lol

BTW, for those of you who still haven't read them: The very secret diaries

This is killin' me LOL

 

[BattlestarDT]

I think you should read what I wrote again man. :lol :lol :lol