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LTTP: He's only 907 years old! Let's share a Doctor Who Marathon
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Dr Zhivago
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rescue_(Doctor_Who)
The first episode of The Space Museum is great, sadly goes downhill from there - despite Boba Fett.
The first episode of The Space Museum is great, sadly goes downhill from there - despite Boba Fett.
GameplayWhore
Member
Dr Zhivago said:
The revelation about what exactly was going on, although it makes no sense, is amusing in a modern Doctor Who way. I could very easily see Tennant or Smith pulling out the very same "We got here before we arrived" gimmick had it not already been done.
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My old CRT monitor exploded last week, so I've fallen way behind on starting The Three Doctors.
This story starts off a lot more serenely, and the first scene inside Unit HQ is a lot more lighthearted than the last few episodes were. The pacing flows incredibly well, neither being harried nor boring, neither menacingly plodding nor frivolously pandering for amusement. This is possibly the best of the alien invasion setups this show has had yet.
Hm. The Doctor contacts Gallifrey early on during this crisis. But there have been equally dangerous situations where he didn't even consider the option. Maybe he only recently fixed up his distress signal button. Still, it's very nice to see the problem from a larger perspective. And, well, it's a nice hook to bring us the main crossover plot. On the side, unless it's been noted before, it is highly amusing that the first mention of the "First Rule of Time" is uttered seconds before it is broken.
It's great to see Troughton and Pertwee together. It's unfortunate that Hartnell basically seems to have just a separately filmed extended cameo, but you can sense in his delivery that he's not quite the Time Lord he once was. He probably couldn't handle the intensity of conventional acting at this point, and that makes me profoundly sad.
Aha, it's a monster made out of antimatter. At least they cover the whole "hey, shouldn't it explode violently?" issue with a casual "Awkward, isn't it?"
This is great stuff, it's a fairly kitsch episode without being wholly camp. The Brigadier tries to pass off Troughton as the Doctor's assistant, a happy reunion with Pertwee and the Whomobile, UNIT HQ vanishing in to a black hole.... "mind over antimatter"
The magician's trick that the Doctor used to graphically illustrate how their experience was a sort of illusion of a high order was pretty neatly done, I thought.
For some reason, I have no recollection whatsoever of this "recorder" that Troughton apparently loves so much. Was this part of his run just somehow wiped from my memory??
The episode loses some of its effectiveness and fun somewhere towards the end of the third episode, starting with the "will fight" between Omega and Pertwee. I have to say, though, that the Omega unmasking scene is awesome. It's a really nicely done effect for the time, too, and the framing when the Doctor says "Your will is all that is left of you" is so completely perfect. This scene turns the serial's antagonist from a one dimensional villain stereotype to a... well, a two dimensional tragedy. That's a fantastic improvement given the incredible overdelivery of lines the actor has been pressed into.
Hartnell's penultimate appearance, in communications with Gallifrey, is in Black and White. Would have been a really cute touch and nice homage if he hadn't shown up once more at the very very end in colour.
Was wondering what happened lol, get a shiny new monitor?GameplayWhore said:The revelation about what exactly was going on, although it makes no sense, is amusing in a modern Doctor Who way. I could very easily see Tennant or Smith pulling out the very same "We got here before we arrived" gimmick had it not already been done.
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My old CRT monitor exploded last week, so I've fallen way behind on starting The Three Doctors.
This story starts off a lot more serenely, and the first scene inside Unit HQ is a lot more lighthearted than the last few episodes were. The pacing flows incredibly well, neither being harried nor boring, neither menacingly plodding nor frivolously pandering for amusement. This is possibly the best of the alien invasion setups this show has had yet.
Hm. The Doctor contacts Gallifrey early on during this crisis. But there have been equally dangerous situations where he didn't even consider the option. Maybe he only recently fixed up his distress signal button. Still, it's very nice to see the problem from a larger perspective. And, well, it's a nice hook to bring us the main crossover plot. On the side, unless it's been noted before, it is highly amusing that the first mention of the "First Rule of Time" is uttered seconds before it is broken.
It's great to see Troughton and Pertwee together. It's unfortunate that Hartnell basically seems to have just a separately filmed extended cameo, but you can sense in his delivery that he's not quite the Time Lord he once was. He probably couldn't handle the intensity of conventional acting at this point, and that makes me profoundly sad.
Aha, it's a monster made out of antimatter. At least they cover the whole "hey, shouldn't it explode violently?" issue with a casual "Awkward, isn't it?"
This is great stuff, it's a fairly kitsch episode without being wholly camp. The Brigadier tries to pass off Troughton as the Doctor's assistant, a happy reunion with Pertwee and the Whomobile, UNIT HQ vanishing in to a black hole.... "mind over antimatter"
The magician's trick that the Doctor used to graphically illustrate how their experience was a sort of illusion of a high order was pretty neatly done, I thought.
For some reason, I have no recollection whatsoever of this "recorder" that Troughton apparently loves so much. Was this part of his run just somehow wiped from my memory??
The episode loses some of its effectiveness and fun somewhere towards the end of the third episode, starting with the "will fight" between Omega and Pertwee. I have to say, though, that the Omega unmasking scene is awesome. It's a really nicely done effect for the time, too, and the framing when the Doctor says "Your will is all that is left of you" is so completely perfect. This scene turns the serial's antagonist from a one dimensional villain stereotype to a... well, a two dimensional tragedy. That's a fantastic improvement given the incredible overdelivery of lines the actor has been pressed into.
Hartnell's penultimate appearance, in communications with Gallifrey, is in Black and White. Would have been a really cute touch and nice homage if he hadn't shown up once more at the very very end in colour.
I wish I could answer your questions but having not seen them im basically watching them through your posts lol.
GameplayWhore
Member
Syth_Blade22 said:
CRT from work, marked for trash but temporarily embezzled. The old one was 21" AGI 6G monitor bought when 14 inchers were the norm, so it gave me an awesome decade and change. Interim's a 20" Trinitron, flatter surface with the two faint dead lines normal for that monitor type. Anyway, was going to get a 25.5" Asus, but I'm taking a risk on a cheap off-brand 27.5" 1920x1200 monitor. It should come in just in time for Baker.
GameplayWhore said:CRT from work, marked for trash but temporarily embezzled. The old one was 21" AGI 6G monitor bought when 14 inchers were the norm, so it gave me an awesome decade and change. Interim's a 20" Trinitron, flatter surface with the two faint dead lines normal for that monitor type. Anyway, was going to get a 25.5" Asus, but I'm taking a risk on a cheap off-brand 27.5" 1920x1200 monitor. It should come in just in time for Baker.
by the time of tennant i'll expect minority report style computers.
GameplayWhore
Member
Syth_Blade22 said:
I'll hook up my wii remote and use it as a mouse pointer. It'll have to do, best I could possibly manage with two months of notice and an empty wallet.
"Morning, Xbox" "Good morning, Batman"
GameplayWhore
Member
The Green Death. Ah. A hippy episode. Star Trek had one of those.
BTW, is it okay for me to link to a playlist for this? Just checking. If it's not, I'll cut it out ASAP.
...yum, high-protein fungus as a future meat substitute. :/
So the TARDIS is working perfectly, but the Doctor still uses the Whomobile to travel across England. Shortly thereafter, they're all in a situation where they lack tools to rescue people in danger, and the nearest tools are a town away. Would have been a great idea to be able to just teleport over and grab whatever they need from UNIT HQ, eh?
The pulsing green disease effect is interesting, and I'm wondering how they did it. Simple animation, perhaps, drawing over each frame?
Hmmm. Is this another Master episode? The head dude acts weird as if he's under some form of control, and his "boss"'s voice seems somewhat Mastery.
Turns out the Doctor knows multiple forms of Venusian martial arts. This time around, it's our sister planet's version of Aikido. He looks rather funny doing it, as does his body double.
Ooh, nifty. We didn't watch The War Machines in this marathon, but I saw it a while back, and I liked that the villain was essentially a computer. Granted, like almost the episodes we've been watching lately, that antagonist controlled peoples' minds, but at least it was a very early episode, perhaps even the first episode to have some sort of mind control. Turns out that the episode we're watching now also has a computer antagonist who controls minds. Don't know how I feel about it yet. The whole thing is starting to feel a bit ... overdone.
Jo is trapped again. The Doctor has had to sneak into a facility twice, the latter time wearing disguises to get around. Most of this episode would have been entirely unnecessary if he simply used his TARDIS from the start!
I will note that I really like some of the effects shots of the maggot creatures. The other creature design is hit or miss. The shots of the BOSS computer's voice screen is pretty cool, too.
So the moral of the story seems to be that vegan protein alternatives are deadlier than firebombing.
This is one of those serials in which a
. In this case,
is handled much better than when
. It still happened a bit quickly, but I suppose that's to be expected.
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I'm up to date again. And I have a 1920x1200, 27.5" monitor that cost $250. Off brand, so fingers crossed. No bad pixels, at least.
BTW, is it okay for me to link to a playlist for this? Just checking. If it's not, I'll cut it out ASAP.
...yum, high-protein fungus as a future meat substitute. :/
So the TARDIS is working perfectly, but the Doctor still uses the Whomobile to travel across England. Shortly thereafter, they're all in a situation where they lack tools to rescue people in danger, and the nearest tools are a town away. Would have been a great idea to be able to just teleport over and grab whatever they need from UNIT HQ, eh?
The pulsing green disease effect is interesting, and I'm wondering how they did it. Simple animation, perhaps, drawing over each frame?
Hmmm. Is this another Master episode? The head dude acts weird as if he's under some form of control, and his "boss"'s voice seems somewhat Mastery.
Turns out the Doctor knows multiple forms of Venusian martial arts. This time around, it's our sister planet's version of Aikido. He looks rather funny doing it, as does his body double.
Ooh, nifty. We didn't watch The War Machines in this marathon, but I saw it a while back, and I liked that the villain was essentially a computer. Granted, like almost the episodes we've been watching lately, that antagonist controlled peoples' minds, but at least it was a very early episode, perhaps even the first episode to have some sort of mind control. Turns out that the episode we're watching now also has a computer antagonist who controls minds. Don't know how I feel about it yet. The whole thing is starting to feel a bit ... overdone.
Jo is trapped again. The Doctor has had to sneak into a facility twice, the latter time wearing disguises to get around. Most of this episode would have been entirely unnecessary if he simply used his TARDIS from the start!
I will note that I really like some of the effects shots of the maggot creatures. The other creature design is hit or miss. The shots of the BOSS computer's voice screen is pretty cool, too.
So the moral of the story seems to be that vegan protein alternatives are deadlier than firebombing.
This is one of those serials in which a
companion departs the show
leaving the Doctor because the companion falls in love
it was done with Susan
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I'm up to date again. And I have a 1920x1200, 27.5" monitor that cost $250. Off brand, so fingers crossed. No bad pixels, at least.
Dr Zhivago
Member
GameplayWhore said:
At this point in the show, the Tardis is unreliable for 'short hops'.
I thought Jo leaving was handled really nicely, although I don't agree it was better than Susan's departure - she wasn't really leaving for love anyway, the Doctor basically pushed her out so she could have her own life.
GameplayWhore
Member
Dr Zhivago said:
I was under the impression he let her go because she was forming a connection with one of the men there. However, as much a fan of Earth that she might have been, I just wasn't happy that she was kicked out into what essentially was an alien planet to her, with no hope of escape, after a major and violent global upheaval that likely left the entire world in disarray.
Thanks for filling me in about the TARDIS. I noticed that in the next episode in the list, the Doctor seems to express mild surprise at being taken to where he intended.
GameplayWhore
Member
I'm curious ... sometimes, on NeoGAF, spoilers appear completely dark and I have to drag over them to view the contents, and sometimes the spoilers are just white text on black background. Is this something that the poster selects, or do I accidentally click some "reveal all spoilers" hyperlink sometimes?
Wow, snazzy new intro for The Time Warrior, with newly updated graphic effects that really start the ball rolling in terms of looking like we're travelling through the tunnel-like time vortex. Pretty much the one known for Tom Baker, it's not my favourite -- I think that might be Troughton's intro -- but it's a lot cooler than at least one of the intros I've seen from the 1980s.
From the outset, it is very, very, very, very, very refreshing that we're no longer in 1970s England. I've had quite enough of that for the moment, thank you very much!
It's a Sontaran, isn't it? I'd recognize any of those lovable blokes from that squat helmet. The little hole in the back of their neck makes it even more obvious. I kind of like them, at least from New Who. Let's see how they held up back then. ... yep, he shortly thereafter confirmed it.
...wait, "Smith". Yay, it's Sarah Jane! She looks really different now than she did back then, and almost not entirely in the "duh, I aged" way. I think she actually looks better after a few more years (decades) have passed.
"'Girl'? You have two species on this planet?"
"Oh, I understand. You have a primary and secondary reproductive cycle. It is an inefficient system; you should change it."
...yup, Sontaran mind control ray. Looks like a sonic screwdriver. One of these days, we'll find an alien with absolutely no control over the human brain.
Sontarans are pretty great aliens. They have missions and objectives, but they are not overly concerned with taking over or destroying the Earth. The mayhem they cause is merely a means to an end for them. This makes them much more interesting to watch.
Sarah Jane is presented as a very smart character. She uses good, logical deductive methods to come to completely incorrect conclusions half the time. She links the disappearance of the scientists into the past with the Doctors time travelling abilities, and it's only reasonable to conclude that the Doctor is the antagonist here. It's wrong due to lack of data, but it doesn't make her seem like a fool.
A truly superior foe holds his abilities in check without too much of that fiendish boasting. There's a great little scene here where the Sontaran is threatened by the leader of the people he's helping, and when attacked, he just takes the man down like an adult would take down a child. No maniacal laughing, no heavy-handed boasts, just a little bit of smug superiority and an insult because, well, he's matter-of-factly the superior being.
They seem to have dispensed with that weird, familiar, "end of episode" sound. I miss it already.
Fun Fact: Sontarans weigh several tons on their home planet. Think about that. Several tons is on the order of, say, ten thousand pounds, or fifty times the weight of a Human. Sontarans look dense, but they're short. Surely, they can't be more than, say, two or three times the mass of a Human. That'd mean that their homeworld's surface gravity is probably upwards of 20g!
Wow, snazzy new intro for The Time Warrior, with newly updated graphic effects that really start the ball rolling in terms of looking like we're travelling through the tunnel-like time vortex. Pretty much the one known for Tom Baker, it's not my favourite -- I think that might be Troughton's intro -- but it's a lot cooler than at least one of the intros I've seen from the 1980s.
From the outset, it is very, very, very, very, very refreshing that we're no longer in 1970s England. I've had quite enough of that for the moment, thank you very much!
It's a Sontaran, isn't it? I'd recognize any of those lovable blokes from that squat helmet. The little hole in the back of their neck makes it even more obvious. I kind of like them, at least from New Who. Let's see how they held up back then. ... yep, he shortly thereafter confirmed it....wait, "Smith". Yay, it's Sarah Jane! She looks really different now than she did back then, and almost not entirely in the "duh, I aged" way. I think she actually looks better after a few more years (decades) have passed.
"'Girl'? You have two species on this planet?"
"Oh, I understand. You have a primary and secondary reproductive cycle. It is an inefficient system; you should change it."
...yup, Sontaran mind control ray. Looks like a sonic screwdriver. One of these days, we'll find an alien with absolutely no control over the human brain.
Sontarans are pretty great aliens. They have missions and objectives, but they are not overly concerned with taking over or destroying the Earth. The mayhem they cause is merely a means to an end for them. This makes them much more interesting to watch.
Sarah Jane is presented as a very smart character. She uses good, logical deductive methods to come to completely incorrect conclusions half the time. She links the disappearance of the scientists into the past with the Doctors time travelling abilities, and it's only reasonable to conclude that the Doctor is the antagonist here. It's wrong due to lack of data, but it doesn't make her seem like a fool.
A truly superior foe holds his abilities in check without too much of that fiendish boasting. There's a great little scene here where the Sontaran is threatened by the leader of the people he's helping, and when attacked, he just takes the man down like an adult would take down a child. No maniacal laughing, no heavy-handed boasts, just a little bit of smug superiority and an insult because, well, he's matter-of-factly the superior being.
They seem to have dispensed with that weird, familiar, "end of episode" sound. I miss it already.
Fun Fact: Sontarans weigh several tons on their home planet. Think about that. Several tons is on the order of, say, ten thousand pounds, or fifty times the weight of a Human. Sontarans look dense, but they're short. Surely, they can't be more than, say, two or three times the mass of a Human. That'd mean that their homeworld's surface gravity is probably upwards of 20g!
GameplayWhore
Member
Syth_Blade22 said:
Have we ever seen these mysterious enemies they're fighting?
GameplayWhore
Member
Shiv47 said:
I'm a little ahead of the timeline now, so I'll try to sneak that one in between eps later on.
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Sadly Planet of Spiders starts is back in modern Earth, which I was getting a bit tired of, and I had rejoiced when we got that quick trip into the past courtesty of the Sontaran. Ah well, doesn't mean it's going to be a bad episode!
...is that guy supposed to be Tibetan? If so, wow. My hazy memory tells me that Weng Chiang has a similar not-Asian Asian.
It seems like we're retreading some of that awfully familiar Pertwee-era ground: Occult chanting to summon creatures, chases in fancy Bondian vehicles..... Now wait a second. If that dude could teleport to his home by concentrating, why did we have that extended length chase sequence?
Wheee, I was wrong, we get to visit an alien planet (should have figured given the serial's title)! I am once again refreshed. The interaction between the alien queen and the leader of the human-side of this villainy is pretty cool, and it makes the story just a bit more multifaceted, something desperately needed whenever the Big Goal in the episode is "Conquer Earth", as is too often the case.
I should have realized what would happen with the slow fellow and the crystal. It only hit me about a minute before it actually happened, which made me feel a bit foolish. But even knowing about it slightly beforehand didn't prevent it from filling me with happy feelings when it happened. Yeesh, I'm pretty easily manupulated.
That fellow listening in on the conversation the occultists were having, when they knocked him out and he was lying on the floor, he looked quite a bit like Davison.
Ohhhh. Okay, that guy whom I thought was Tibetan is actually a psychic extension of a Gallifreyan. I guess it's okay that he didn't look even slightly Tibetan. And, wow, having qualities like compassion and innocence makes you invulnerable to magic lightning. The magic blue crystal will give the eight legs the power to take over the Earth, so the Doctor accepts that only possible way for them to be stopped is to give them the crystal, for reasons that aren't really explained at all. And it turns out that if the Doctor had not intervened at all, the main villain of the episode would have been destroyed anyway, with fewer deaths involved. The quantity of stupid is certainly piling up during the last episode of this serial!
Pertwee was around for quite a while (at least longer than modern Doctors tend to stick around), so it's nice that they gave a primer regarding regeneration for newer Who fans. It was also pretty cool that they teased his death earlier on in the serial, only to bring him back to life, only to kill him off again. I'll certainly miss him, though. Watching all these episodes really makes me understand why each Doctor has his own dedicated fan base.
:lolGameplayWhore said:I'm a little ahead of the timeline now, so I'll try to sneak that one in between eps later on.
-----
Sadly Planet of Spiders starts is back in modern Earth, which I was getting a bit tired of, and I had rejoiced when we got that quick trip into the past courtesty of the Sontaran. Ah well, doesn't mean it's going to be a bad episode!
...is that guy supposed to be Tibetan? If so, wow. My hazy memory tells me that Weng Chiang has a similar not-Asian Asian.
It seems like we're retreading some of that awfully familiar Pertwee-era ground: Occult chanting to summon creatures, chases in fancy Bondian vehicles..... Now wait a second. If that dude could teleport to his home by concentrating, why did we have that extended length chase sequence?
Wheee, I was wrong, we get to visit an alien planet (should have figured given the serial's title)! I am once again refreshed. The interaction between the alien queen and the leader of the human-side of this villainy is pretty cool, and it makes the story just a bit more multifaceted, something desperately needed whenever the Big Goal in the episode is "Conquer Earth", as is too often the case.
I should have realized what would happen with the slow fellow and the crystal. It only hit me about a minute before it actually happened, which made me feel a bit foolish. But even knowing about it slightly beforehand didn't prevent it from filling me with happy feelings when it happened. Yeesh, I'm pretty easily manupulated.
That fellow listening in on the conversation the occultists were having, when they knocked him out and he was lying on the floor, he looked quite a bit like Davison.
Ohhhh. Okay, that guy whom I thought was Tibetan is actually a psychic extension of a Gallifreyan. I guess it's okay that he didn't look even slightly Tibetan. And, wow, having qualities like compassion and innocence makes you invulnerable to magic lightning. The magic blue crystal will give the eight legs the power to take over the Earth, so the Doctor accepts that only possible way for them to be stopped is to give them the crystal, for reasons that aren't really explained at all. And it turns out that if the Doctor had not intervened at all, the main villain of the episode would have been destroyed anyway, with fewer deaths involved. The quantity of stupid is certainly piling up during the last episode of this serial!
Pertwee was around for quite a while (at least longer than modern Doctors tend to stick around), so it's nice that they gave a primer regarding regeneration for newer Who fans. It was also pretty cool that they teased his death earlier on in the serial, only to bring him back to life, only to kill him off again. I'll certainly miss him, though. Watching all these episodes really makes me understand why each Doctor has his own dedicated fan base.
Yes, the difference between the doctors is great to see, It's one of the things that got me into DR who and kept me there, just that refreshing change.
also stolen from the official season fnarg thread.
Manos: The Hans of Fate said:
GameplayWhore
Member
Syth_Blade22 said:
Seeing the dramatic shifts between Doctors makes Tennant and Smith seem almost like Twins. There are substantial differences, but on the surface it seems like they have a ton of similarities when compared to earlier pairings of Regenerations.
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"Well, here we go again" -Lethbridge-Stewart
Robot starts off with the first breath of Tom Baker's Doctor. He was my first, and he was by far the most popular of the first eight Doctors around here, due to some sort of happenstance that had his era of the show playing something like twenty times a week on the popular non-profit national PBS network. That network was the only source of British television and therefore America's only exposure to Doctor Who, Blake's 7, The Tripods, Are You Being Served?, Red Dwarf and that terrible programme with the two middle-aged women. This was, of course, when there were only seven or so channels of import, well before cable television became ubiquitous. My point here is that he's the Doctor that I remember from my childhood, if only vaguely. My father used to watch it, and I distinctly recall being very very annoyed when he regenerated into that odd blonde fellow. But I'll be giving Davison a fair shake, I promise.
Baker seems a bit ... overly silly initially. I'm sure this will pass. It's a bit interesting, though: Hartnell was pretty serious, Troughton often tended towards comical, Pertwee -- despite quips and situational humour -- was a basically serious character -- and Baker now is again comical. If I didn't know the future of the franchise, I'd be thinking that they're going for some sort of Trek-like even-odd pattern here.
I admire the moxie of folks who mark a door "POSITIVELY NO ADMITTANCE" and then never, ever lock it.
The titular character's name is "K-1". Does K-9 end up coming from the same general technical stock? I know the name is a pun, but still....
The scene where the Doctor meets K-1 is a nice, atypical moment. He keeps testing the robot's abilities in entirely futile ways. Normally, being approached by a giant metal enemy involves either shooting (by others) or running. Sometimes, there's a bit of talking, but I liked seeing the little attempts here and there, the throwing marbles to trip it, swinging a heavy chain at it, covering its eyes with his hat....
"You know just once I'd like to meet an alien menace that wasn't immune to bullets." XD
Ballsy move to defeat the primary antagonists three-quarters through the story, but it did have to serve the main character of the story. A bit tragic, though it was offset by some random silliness towards the end. I mean, for little reason other than to be amusing, the writers decided to have a King Kong moment. Fun stuff there, though.
"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."
Dr Zhivago
Member
GameplayWhore said:
They pretty much invented regeneration at that point. Previously we'd had 'a renewal' and 'a change of appearance'.
GameplayWhore
Member
Dr Zhivago said:
Whenabouts did they establish the limit to the number of regenerations? Has it been mentioned already, or do I have yet to see it?
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Having been a big fan of Blake's 7 when I was younger, I have a lot of respect for Series creator Terry Nation, who wrote this week's episode, Genesis of the Daleks. I wasn't all that hot about his "Dalek Invasion of Earth", though I thought The "Daleks" had a lot of good points to it. We'll see how this one goes....
Might be a bit easy to miss, but the first time we see gallifreyans, they're dressed in a fairly casual, typical fashion. The further on we go, the more ridiculous the outfits tend toward. With this episode, I think it finally shifts over the border from "a bit odd" to "mildly comical". It's really the oversized collar that makes the difference, and it eventually gets taller than the average Time Lord head!
"We thought it woul'd save time if we assumed your agreement".
The first few scenes do a really good job of setting the mood and keeping tension going. There's a continuously increasing sense of urgency, from the mine field to the capture to sarah encountering the mutos, rocket climb.... okay, it does break a little with the giant clam attack, but I really appreciate the breadth and variety in the action scenes. I've complained before about episodes involving the doctor being captured and escaping over and over again. This serial manages to deliver consecutive action scenes that neither overload the plot nor feel tedious or repetitive.
The separation of military and science factions within the Kaled race and the distinct three races of Thal, Kaled and Muto adds a ton of complexity to the conflict. Everyone's plotting or fighting against everybody else, and the Doctor and his companions area simply caught in the middle, assumed to be enemies by anyone they encounter. There may be only one clear antagonist at play, but conflicts are much more satisfying when they're not just black and white good versus evil smackdowns.
Davros at times sounds like Palpatine from the Star Wars hexology. It's interesting, because the way he's written here seems along the lines of what that character would be like had he been written competently. He plays innocent to every side and silently schemes in the presence of his henchman. He commands a great power rare among his people but carried by the hero of the story (in this case, incredible scientific knowledge). He has also built up control over his nation's government, though he plans to ultimately destroy it.
"Excuse me... can you help me? I'm a spy."
Aside from a few amusing antics from the Doctor, this is an incredibly dark story. It's all about fear and death. The Kaled government funds Davros because of their fear of the Thals. The Thals follow Davros's instructions because of their fear of the Kaleds. The Kaled civilization is almost entirely destroyed. The Thal civilzation is almost entirely destroyed. The scientists continue their work despite fearing its outcome because they fear persecution by Davros more immediately. The Doctor's friends are tortured in front of his eyes. Based on the events of "The Daleks", we know that the descendants of the Thals persist for many generations, but you also know that they will also, utimately, be entirely killed off, so no heroic action in either of these two episodes has any meaning.
On the other hand, Davros suggests the Daleks to be a force for good, not evil. He knows exactly what they will try to do, but his ultimate aims are for peace in all the universe, and he believes that subjugation of the universe is the surest way to achieve this goal. It makes logical sense, if you ignore all the bad stuff that happens before the peace is attained. But it is truly the only conceivable way to end war entirely and permanently besides entirely killing off every intelligent living being or engineering all living things to be averse to conflict. Of course, both of these two options are made easier by complete subjugation. Hmm, it's an interesting thought experiment.
That's not to say that Dav isn't off his rocker. He is, but there's a good amount of philosophical banter between him and the Doctor that truly makes this better than your typical episode. It does sort of dwindle into a power trip, but it's nice while it's going on. But, in the end, he's done in by his own creations. From how he discussed the matter with the Doctor, you'd think he'd be happy to have the Daleks coming into their own, but at the last moments it is revealed that he wanted to continue going on in person, not by way of his descendant race going on. Having such a complex villain killed off in his first appearance is a shame, but at least it avoids the kind of cheapening of the character that we have seen happen to the Master.
This was a really good episode. I think I liked Inferno better, but it was most certainly one of the best yet and easily the best of the Dalek episodes. It's annoying that they changed some historical elements, like their power source from the first episode and the name of the "Dal" (now "Kaled") race; and I preferred the original idea that they were incompatible with human emotions simply because they were alien, compared to now where they were specifically engineered by a very human-like race to act that way. But this stands as some of Nation's best written work, I think.
Dr Zhivago
Member
GameplayWhore said:
It's in The Deadly Assassin, although they're apparently going to address it again in the forthcoming Sarah Jane episode with Matt Smith.
...
Genesis is interesting because the Doctor states he's delayed the Daleks' emergence by 1000 years or so, which seems to indicate that history has changed. Do the events of The Daleks & Dalek Invasion of Earth still occur?
GameplayWhore
Member
Dr Zhivago said:
I do believe that those events were altered at one point. In the changed history, the doctor's actual name is "Doctor Who", and from what I can tell a fellow who looks an awful lot like Wilfred Mott helped him to defeat the Daleks.
GameplayWhore
Member
In Terror of the Zygons, the Brigadier makes a quick return. I was getting annoyed at having him around every week (even though I liked him in general, tfhey were rude enough to kill off the best version of him in "Inferno"), but as an off-again, on-again guest I think he's pretty okay.
Hah! The doctor's scarf is tartan!
This episode keeps the titular enemies obscured for almost the entire first episode. You see flashes of limbs, eyes, and other bits and pieces, as well as very alien looking technology, and you never see anything close to a whole Zygon, and it looks <em>really</em> good when presented in this fashion. They look a little bit silly when we finally see them in full at the end of the episode, but the design is original and the makeup job is pretty spectacular, considering the time.
And, aha, "We must make this planet ours ... all resistance shall be crushed". For. Crying. Out. Loud. Aargh.
The Doctor learned his not-breathing trance from "a Tibetan monk". I wonder if he was actually talking about his old Time Lord teacher, who we saw posing as a genetically British, Tibetan monk back in "Planet of Spiders"..
It's particularly great how the Doctor quickly ascertains how Harry isn't an alien in disguise -- he's contented with the man's expression of idiocy and incomprehension.
This episode felt like a total non-event. While they made a really good effort on the Zygons' look and alien-ness, they forgot to make anything much better than a generic aliens attacking Earth with a superweapon story, and that's starting to really wear thin for me.
As a last note: The TARDIS sitting there in the middle of the forest at the end reminds me of the excursions I've made to Staten Island, NY, wherein there are hundred year old ruins of once inhabited buildings entirely overgrown by woodland, so you get things like fireplugs and manhole covers right in the middle of the forest. It's really quite a sight when you get there. Just watch out for the ticks.
Hah! The doctor's scarf is tartan!
This episode keeps the titular enemies obscured for almost the entire first episode. You see flashes of limbs, eyes, and other bits and pieces, as well as very alien looking technology, and you never see anything close to a whole Zygon, and it looks <em>really</em> good when presented in this fashion. They look a little bit silly when we finally see them in full at the end of the episode, but the design is original and the makeup job is pretty spectacular, considering the time.
And, aha, "We must make this planet ours ... all resistance shall be crushed". For. Crying. Out. Loud. Aargh.
The Doctor learned his not-breathing trance from "a Tibetan monk". I wonder if he was actually talking about his old Time Lord teacher, who we saw posing as a genetically British, Tibetan monk back in "Planet of Spiders"..
It's particularly great how the Doctor quickly ascertains how Harry isn't an alien in disguise -- he's contented with the man's expression of idiocy and incomprehension.
This episode felt like a total non-event. While they made a really good effort on the Zygons' look and alien-ness, they forgot to make anything much better than a generic aliens attacking Earth with a superweapon story, and that's starting to really wear thin for me.
As a last note: The TARDIS sitting there in the middle of the forest at the end reminds me of the excursions I've made to Staten Island, NY, wherein there are hundred year old ruins of once inhabited buildings entirely overgrown by woodland, so you get things like fireplugs and manhole covers right in the middle of the forest. It's really quite a sight when you get there. Just watch out for the ticks.
GameplayWhore
Member
Syth_Blade22 said:That would be wonderful to see
If you can get to the face book, here is a picture and three albums that apply:
Photo: fire hydrant
Album: Staten Island Adventure, part 1
Album: Staten Island Adventure, part 2
Album: Hiking and Nostalgia
On that third one, I got lost and two of the three in our group got nasty poison ivy and nastier Lyme Disease. The remaining person was immune (or, well, more smartly clothed than the rest of us!). I still thought it was pretty worth it.
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Pyramids of Mars has a very special significance to me. This episode was the one that started before I existed and ended after I came to be.
A callback to an earlier companion. Vicki, whom the Doctor momentarily confuses Sarah Jane with, was with the Doctor waaayyyyy back in series two, in such episodes as The Space Museum and The Time Meddler, the latter of which I liked a lot.
There's a moment where the Doctor realizes that something is terribly wrong with the universe, and you hear foreboding organ music. In a nice scene transition, it turns out that the music is actually somebody playing the tune on an organ (and spying on our heroes, of course).
I like the time setting of this episode. It's in the contemporary past but not during a war or some other major event. You don't see that too often. It's also the perfect time period for this sort of story. And while it's still an "aliens come to conquer/destroy humanity" story, it's keeping my attention pretty well, and it's different enough to avoid having that aspect of the story bogging down the whole thing.
So there's this ancient Egyptian religion that worships this god. Only it's not a god, it's a terribly powerful alien. And the hero discovers the secret of this ... this "star gate" which leads to a some distant world where the "god" resides. I think this would make a neat premise for a spin-off show.
You know, I think the difference is really just a competent director. There are a lot of neat tricks being used here which both look effective and create an excellent atmosphere for storytelling. The invisible wall was pretty believable, especially with objects bouncing off it. The reverse-film trick when "Marcus" is shot and just sucks up the gunsmoke looks really cool, too.
It's chilling how the Doctor visually demonstrates the mutability of time and how they have to stop Sutekh back in the 1910s even though they saw 1980 safe and sound a mere few episodes ago. Nice stock footage, by the way, wherever they got that from.
Anyway, the next day, I was born.
(to be continued...)
GameplayWhore
Member
....six days later, the serial resumed.
Sutekh reminds me a little bit of Omega. Big opulent mask, tremendously powerful and dangerous, trapped for all eternity and trying to get out by controlling the actions of others.
The Doctor's plan involves his companion being a sniper. It's not to hit an actual person (even an animated cadaver), but with the occasional strong aversion he shows to guns, I was surprised he'd make one at all part of his plans.
I remember somebody earlier in this thread being highly amused at how different the TARDIS doors look from the inside (even when they're open) for the First Doctor. The Tom Baker era doors still look like this, where the doorway is large enough to fit people walking out in fours, side by side. I wonder how it'd actually work if a bunch of people tried to squeeze out like that at the same time. Would they mash together as soon as they hit that threshold that separates large inner volume and small outer volume?
They show Sutekh pretty much as being superior to anyone, even a Time Lord. In addition to the usual mental control thing (the cliché which will never die in Doctor Who), they show Sutekh instantly solving a puzzle, but the Doctor has to work it out the hard way, with math and crude, yarn-based measuring tools. I'm liking this, because New Who tends to err a bit on the side of "Instant Knowledge Doctor", which can seem like taking the easy way out far too often.
On the other hand, the way that Sutekh was ultimately stopped seemed kind of cheap. With all that superior intellect and power, it felt like he just walked into the wall of failure. And it was courtesy of a very TNG type of technobabble device, which I tend to frown upon.
Now here's the question: The Doctor and Sarah (and that other guy) already witnessed what happened to Earth after Sutekh's reign of destruction, and they went back to change it. But according to the general mythology of the show, you can't change what you've already personally experienced (such as in Father's Day from Season Eccleston, weird vortex dragons and all that). Did things work generally differently in the Baker days?
Sutekh reminds me a little bit of Omega. Big opulent mask, tremendously powerful and dangerous, trapped for all eternity and trying to get out by controlling the actions of others.
The Doctor's plan involves his companion being a sniper. It's not to hit an actual person (even an animated cadaver), but with the occasional strong aversion he shows to guns, I was surprised he'd make one at all part of his plans.
I remember somebody earlier in this thread being highly amused at how different the TARDIS doors look from the inside (even when they're open) for the First Doctor. The Tom Baker era doors still look like this, where the doorway is large enough to fit people walking out in fours, side by side. I wonder how it'd actually work if a bunch of people tried to squeeze out like that at the same time. Would they mash together as soon as they hit that threshold that separates large inner volume and small outer volume?
They show Sutekh pretty much as being superior to anyone, even a Time Lord. In addition to the usual mental control thing (the cliché which will never die in Doctor Who), they show Sutekh instantly solving a puzzle, but the Doctor has to work it out the hard way, with math and crude, yarn-based measuring tools. I'm liking this, because New Who tends to err a bit on the side of "Instant Knowledge Doctor", which can seem like taking the easy way out far too often.
On the other hand, the way that Sutekh was ultimately stopped seemed kind of cheap. With all that superior intellect and power, it felt like he just walked into the wall of failure. And it was courtesy of a very TNG type of technobabble device, which I tend to frown upon.
Now here's the question: The Doctor and Sarah (and that other guy) already witnessed what happened to Earth after Sutekh's reign of destruction, and they went back to change it. But according to the general mythology of the show, you can't change what you've already personally experienced (such as in Father's Day from Season Eccleston, weird vortex dragons and all that). Did things work generally differently in the Baker days?
Dr Zhivago
Member
There was never any real consistency to how time travel worked in Classic Who, different writers had their own ideas.
GameplayWhore
Member
Dr Zhivago said:
Ah, okay, so treat it like Star Trek, gotcha.
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A bunch of ice miners (or something) discover what I assume must be one of The Seeds of Doom. I paused and got distracted for a moment, and when I got back, it looked for all the world like somebody was sticking a spoon into a delicious ice cream sundae. But it was just the strange device having snow scraped off it for anlaysis.
The observation about bonsai being a form of mulitation is actually pretty interesting. It certainly doesn't benefit the plant, and it's really for the benefit of the grower, so it can't be considered any less inhumane than, say, dressing your dog up in a little costume -- an action which is generally not that irritating to the dog but generally doesn't keep it warm, so the owner really gets the benefit..
"We were expecting someone older" "Well I'm only seven hundred and forty nine. Used to be even younger."
The plant dude thing is actively seeking sources of warmth and light, but I don't get why exactly it went out into the arctic in the first place. But then, it's a fully mobile indestructible plant, so I guess I can be a little lax on the science-oriented aspects here.
If this were Hartnell or Troughton, the monster stalking them in the arctic would have taken the full six episodes. I thought it would, actually. This is one of those episodes where the plot takes a big Left Turn partway through, and the scene that you would have expected at the end merely becomes the cliffhanger in the middle.
"Yes, money. Hired thieves and murderers don't usually work for love."
HOLY CRAP THE DOCTOR SNAPPED A GUY'S NECK!!! :O :O :O
...oh, wait, I guess he didn't. He just did something to the guy's larynx or something. But it looked pretty darn nasty. He grabbed the head, twisted, there was a crack, and the guy fell to the ground.
...oh, and the guy's totally fine after about a minute. He just needed to rub his neck a little. Weird.
This is a very Bondian villain. Megalomania and dumb henchmen aside, they got it right down to the "death trap set on automatic and we walk away so we can't see you die".
Hah, I love the butler. He takes everything in stride. As everybody else is completely panicking, he's nonchalantly doing whatever it is he's told. "Big giant monster, BOARD UP THE WINDOWS!!!!!" "If you say so."
The shots of the monster on the mansion is very cool looking. You can still tell it's models and soforth, but it manages to beat most New Who cgi work in terms of realism, imho.
Fun episode. The flow was interesting here -- was cut into thirds, starting with a lot of close quarters, then becoming a bit of a cloak and dagger show, then finally going back to its initial formula. It worked pretty well for me.
GameplayWhore
Member
The Deadly Assassin has a lot of continuity at the start. I like how they went a bit through what happened at the end of Troughton's reign all the way almost to the end of Pertwee's -- that is, the banishment of the Doctor to Earth and his eventual winning of freedom (both events, I should note, involving Troughton, despite the latter event being well after his Doctor's death). Also, extra points for the bit shortly after where they have Gallifreyan text in a language and font clearly not related to English (I wonder if it's translatable in the manner of the Futurama languages).
Man, those shoulder/head things that ended up being the height of fashion on Gallifrey look like they'd make a good cannon mount.
"Vaporization without representation is against the Constitution!"
The rules in the Master's simulated reality seem a bit arbitrary. Why exactly would the Doctor need water? Is he really in danger from that train? Why is the Master's world designed to be so expansive and have so many places for the Doctor to hide? Shouldn't he just change the world so that it's one big flat plain, or maybe a planet with a radius of fifty feet? If the Master can recreate the gash on his leg, why can't he create a burst blood vessel in his brain or, at least, give him a sprained ankle? I had one two and a half weeks ago, and I only stopped the crutches last weekend!
I want the old Master back, the one who was smart and low key and not at all obsessed with vengeance and generically evil. I think that the '00s Master is an improvement over this, even if the original was better than both.
Although they look pretty silly now and then, I like that the Time Lords' behaviors are shown in a fairly realistic manner. They're much less than a perfect race, though they hold themselves in very high regard. Particularly, their willingness to rewrite history for political reasons gives them some more dimension. And none of these aspects seem particularly comical or exaggerated, which is nice after seeing most of this show's alien races, which often take a few defining points and shoot them into the stratosphere.
...huh. I just realized that after Goth died, the Doctor became the only candidate for the Presidency. Or did he technically no longer become a candidate when he left the planet?
Man, those shoulder/head things that ended up being the height of fashion on Gallifrey look like they'd make a good cannon mount.
"Vaporization without representation is against the Constitution!"
The rules in the Master's simulated reality seem a bit arbitrary. Why exactly would the Doctor need water? Is he really in danger from that train? Why is the Master's world designed to be so expansive and have so many places for the Doctor to hide? Shouldn't he just change the world so that it's one big flat plain, or maybe a planet with a radius of fifty feet? If the Master can recreate the gash on his leg, why can't he create a burst blood vessel in his brain or, at least, give him a sprained ankle? I had one two and a half weeks ago, and I only stopped the crutches last weekend!
I want the old Master back, the one who was smart and low key and not at all obsessed with vengeance and generically evil. I think that the '00s Master is an improvement over this, even if the original was better than both.
Although they look pretty silly now and then, I like that the Time Lords' behaviors are shown in a fairly realistic manner. They're much less than a perfect race, though they hold themselves in very high regard. Particularly, their willingness to rewrite history for political reasons gives them some more dimension. And none of these aspects seem particularly comical or exaggerated, which is nice after seeing most of this show's alien races, which often take a few defining points and shoot them into the stratosphere.
...huh. I just realized that after Goth died, the Doctor became the only candidate for the Presidency. Or did he technically no longer become a candidate when he left the planet?
GameplayWhore
Member
Syth_Blade22 said:
I'd like to think that much later on, when others watch older episodes, they'll somehow find my posts and glean some insight from my observations. It's not likely, but it's a comforting thought.
New York is a fun area if you want to regularly find eclectic things to do. This weekend was the mp3 experiment, wherein thousands of people play an hour long game of Simon Says in a public space with a mystery mp3 file and a bunch of costumes and/or random-seeming objects, and afterwards they had a really cool sci-tech art show involving tons of interaction with light. Next weekend, I'll be at one of those Burning Man offshoot events, a four night campout with extended amounts of weirdness, so I'll probably be wayyyy off schedule with these episodes come next week. :O
Dr Zhivago
Member
GameplayWhore said:
Wait till you get to the Anthony Ainley Master!
GameplayWhore
Member
I've just learned about the multiquote userjs. It's pretty slick, and I recommend it (haven't tested it in Firefox, though, so ymmv)
There are 8.4 million people in this city (in Manhattan alone, about 36m² per person and probably a third to a half of that when you count commuters and tourists). If they whispered, it would still be deafening. But much like how most of the population of Britain aren't really crazy robots and invading aliens, the stereotype is a bit off, and New York City is pretty quiet, thanks to a ton of parkland and stiff fines for doing things like honking your horn. Loudest you usually get is when you come across somebody riffing Jazz in the subway for spare change.
I remember watching some sort of documentary where it was discussed that this fellow was actually quite a good actor, but he was constantly harassed by the director to ham up his acting when he portrayed the Master.
Syth_Blade22 said:Oh man sounds awesome... alas I don't think I could ever go to New York.. loud mouthed people annoy me.. and if tv has taught me anything.. it's that NY is filled with them
There are 8.4 million people in this city (in Manhattan alone, about 36m² per person and probably a third to a half of that when you count commuters and tourists). If they whispered, it would still be deafening. But much like how most of the population of Britain aren't really crazy robots and invading aliens, the stereotype is a bit off, and New York City is pretty quiet, thanks to a ton of parkland and stiff fines for doing things like honking your horn. Loudest you usually get is when you come across somebody riffing Jazz in the subway for spare change.
Dr Zhivago said:
I remember watching some sort of documentary where it was discussed that this fellow was actually quite a good actor, but he was constantly harassed by the director to ham up his acting when he portrayed the Master.
GameplayWhore
Member
I have to imagine that The Robots of Death will be pretty hardcore, since the last Robot we saw was pretty darn deadly even without the qualifier!
"To the rational mind, nothing is inexplicable, only unexplained". Another one for the "will have to use at some point" pile.
...wait a second. I suddenly realize why the service robots in this episode are so familiar. They're quite similar to the robots from the Titanic Christmas special! They don't have the wings, but they have some similar mannerisms, a similar look, and I could have sworn they both had the red eyes when in killbot mode, but a cursory speed-through of Voyage of the Damned tells me that I must have been cross-thinking about the Ood or something.
Good thing the Doctor had a snorkel in his Pockets o' Plenty, or he would have been breathing ore!
I think I vastly prefer when the titles of these serials don't give away the actual threat. "Inferno" sort of suggested it, but left it vague enough that you didn't really know what the danger would be, and there was no way to know that it would involve green wolfmen. Titles like "The Tenth Planet" and "The Three Doctors" give you no clue whatsoever, but you can't get any less subtle than "The Dalek Invasion of Earth" or "Terror of the Zygons". Anyway, if the episode was called "Mining Ship of Death", we'd at least be in the dark until that first Robot kill (yeah, it was really early on, but I think my general point remains valid).
They pulled a nice swerve halfway through involving the identity of the villain behind the robots. I almost fell for it, but I realized that the serial was a long way from ending, and I had a pretty good idea of what was really going on.
The use of gas (I guess it was Helium, but I missed when it was mentioned, if it was) to make the verbal commands of the villain useless was really inventive, but I've recently started running through episodes of Farscape with some friends, so mentions of Helium pushes me towards giggles instead of solemn thoughts.
-----
Well, tomorrow morning I go to Playa del Fuego, a four night campout with crazy artist people and no computer. So I'll be pretty backlogged when I get back. But at least I will have assembled lots of hula hoops and a few costumes by then.
"To the rational mind, nothing is inexplicable, only unexplained". Another one for the "will have to use at some point" pile.
...wait a second. I suddenly realize why the service robots in this episode are so familiar. They're quite similar to the robots from the Titanic Christmas special! They don't have the wings, but they have some similar mannerisms, a similar look, and I could have sworn they both had the red eyes when in killbot mode, but a cursory speed-through of Voyage of the Damned tells me that I must have been cross-thinking about the Ood or something.
Good thing the Doctor had a snorkel in his Pockets o' Plenty, or he would have been breathing ore!
I think I vastly prefer when the titles of these serials don't give away the actual threat. "Inferno" sort of suggested it, but left it vague enough that you didn't really know what the danger would be, and there was no way to know that it would involve green wolfmen. Titles like "The Tenth Planet" and "The Three Doctors" give you no clue whatsoever, but you can't get any less subtle than "The Dalek Invasion of Earth" or "Terror of the Zygons". Anyway, if the episode was called "Mining Ship of Death", we'd at least be in the dark until that first Robot kill (yeah, it was really early on, but I think my general point remains valid).
They pulled a nice swerve halfway through involving the identity of the villain behind the robots. I almost fell for it, but I realized that the serial was a long way from ending, and I had a pretty good idea of what was really going on.
The use of gas (I guess it was Helium, but I missed when it was mentioned, if it was) to make the verbal commands of the villain useless was really inventive, but I've recently started running through episodes of Farscape with some friends, so mentions of Helium pushes me towards giggles instead of solemn thoughts.
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Well, tomorrow morning I go to Playa del Fuego, a four night campout with crazy artist people and no computer. So I'll be pretty backlogged when I get back. But at least I will have assembled lots of hula hoops and a few costumes by then.
GameplayWhore
Member
Syth_Blade22 said:
Oh, it was just 91 hours of camping with fiery circus acts, many topless women, acrobatics, free food of all sorts, naked yoga, crazy costumes, CD giveaways, tea parties, pole dancing, chess, Battleship, drum circles, pumpkin carving, dance music and occasional sex. They call these events "Burns," and they're very inexpensive ways to pass off time, and they are structured in a way that makes attendees very accepting of others and willing to pleasantly socialize.
As an interesting aside, my real estate guy called me up while I was heading there -- in terrible rush hour traffic -- to tell me that I have an accepted offer on a house I was trying to buy. I could not do the dance of joy at the time due to being in a car, but I was happy nonetheless. We're doing the appraisal tomorrow.
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Ahh, goodie, I'm only three serials behind (interesting choice to have a 6-episode serial on the 6th and then the next serial on the 7th!). I've actually already seen The Talons of Weng-Chiang before, but all I really remember strongly is that there was a giant rat at one point. So here I go again!
They're doing a little bit better job of portraying Asian characters. In this serial, some of these characters are played by actual Asians. The main such character, though, is still a Brit. He actually looks pretty decent, but the voice is terrible.
"You've been drinking!" "Not a drop, sir." "Well it's time you started."
So the Doctor became some sort of martial arts bad ass in the Pertwee era, and now he's up to taking out a gang of Chinese mafia armed with weapons (them, not him). But by the time the eighth Doctor rolls around, I think he's somehow lost the memories of how to fight. Granted, two centuries or so pass between these points, but It'll be nice to see exactly when the Doctor stops the hand to hand mastery and becomes the track star that we all know and love.
The giant rat as a bigger than life character is a bit silly (and a pretty bad effect except for one great shot of it feeding on a victim). But Mr. Jago is a very fun bigger than life character in an entirely different way. Actually, a lot of the characters in this serial are like that -- just a little bit pompous, enough to make them likable, not enough to make you want to throw a TARDIS at them.
Oy, yet another case of humans being put under easy mental control. Fortunately, it seems like a very small part of the plot.
The scenes between Leela and Professor Litefoot are a really fun high point, with a lot of light, fish-out-of-water content. In fact, Leela is a very unique companion, and I think I understand why. Companions in the RTD forward era are always from contemporary England. They differ in various ways, but they all give a modern perspective on the Doctor. Problem is, the Doctor seems pretty modern, as well. He's not quite as alien these days as he was back then, so it wouldn't hurt to have companion from the non-present. From the dialog here, Leela seems to be from a future where some branch of humankind has become primitive (well, more primitive), and because of her nature, she can still connect to the audience and act as a vector to relate complex things into simple explanations.
"Do you know what that is?" "(smiling) You ask me so you can tell me." "That's right."
The overall story is okay, but it's elevated by really great dialog and charming characters. Fantastic acting all around helps quite a bit, and I like how the writer went out of his way to actually explore the personalities of the characters involved more than you see in other serials.
GameplayWhore
Member
Syth_Blade22 said:congrats on the house news man, I imagine it made wild sexy fire dance orgy all the more celebratory
You'd think so, but I came back from it with a missing license (which is majorly screwing with the buying process) and a nasty head cold. It was still massive fun, though.
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The story of Horror of Fang Rock seems to be immersed in a murky fog, more than the actual setting is. Everything seems hazy and unclear. There's something about a monster killing people around a lighthouse and causing electrical problems, but it's all fuzzy enough so that few details can be made out.
The previous serial's strength, as I pointed out earlier, was that the characters were just a little bit pompous yet still likable. Here, the characters go over the line in terms of cliché and aren't really likable at all, possibly because they don't feel particularly realistic, but none of it is being played for light humour like in "Talons...".
I had the vaguest impression that this story was slightly aping Carpenter's "The Thing", what with the apparent taking over peoples' bodies and all, but then I looked at the air date. >_>
I do really like the discussions showing how, to this era, certain things (like the possibility of alien life) is considered utter nonsense while other things (like astrology, the position in the sky of stars quadrillions of miles away having direct effects on how well your day is going) are considered rational science. It's probably the best thing they did to cement the atmosphere of the time period.
Hmm. it does get more interesting once all the nonregular characters are out of the way and after the crazy secret of the monster is finally out and out of the way (the story becomes clearer and more straightforward), but the Rutans (despite the attempt to make them super alien looking) just aren't as cool as the Sontarans. It is notable that the Doctor basically made a giant firearm to kill thousands of people at the end, though. Hand-held guns are a no-no, but massive death rays that blow shit up? No problem with ethics here!
GameplayWhore
Member
Six seconds into The Armageddon Factor, I grinned, rolled my eyes a bit, and reflexively exclaimed "Holy shit, this is awesome." It was just such over the top schmaltz that I assumed that the characters were actors in the story, players in some future's video programme of some sort.
Oh, hm, the Doctor now has a robot named K-9. Looks like a dog. The name's interesting -- I wonder if it's related somehow to K-1 from the serial "Robot". Too bad we didn't get to see him build it.
Aha, I knew it, the cheeseball material *is* a tv show of some kind, hah!
This one has a lot of intrigue in it, keeps the story on its toes. There's a pretty nice mystery brewing here, too. I'm liking the crazy variety of characters.
The Doctor has these awesome and phenomenally unhelpful ways to compress advanced science into simple metaphor. In a prior episode, he explained the TARDIS's dimensional transcendance by showing how a far away object appears smaller than a close by object and stating that it's like having the far away object be close up while still being far away. This time around, he explains advanced cloaking technology by covering his face with his hand.
Best I can tell, the Doctor and this new companion are on a fetch quest to get some number of mystical artifacts for some unclear reason. They happen to, in this episode, encounter another being with the same mission (but who is, of course, malevolent). So these keys to time are basically red coins or pokeballs. Gotta catch 'em all! Seriously, though, I'm a bit lost since I haven't seen the first episode of this whole "keys to time" storyline. I think the gaps will fill in as I go, though.
Marshall is a fun character. It's like he's constantly bluffing to the world as well as to himself: "I want every available ship made ready" "But there's only one ship left, sir, your escape... your command module, sir." "Have it made ready!"
One of the military uniforms and weapons (the black suit, towards the end of the third episode when an underling who accidentally transmatted is demanding that the Doctor tell him how he got there) are highly reminiscent of the outfits and weapons in Blake's 7. It's not the same, but my nostalgia button was definitely pressed.
Woohoo, halfway through and it's a pretty interesting episode. Definitely a change of pace, and I'm optimistic about this villain, even though he hasn't gone anything above standard villain cliché yet.
Oh, hm, the Doctor now has a robot named K-9. Looks like a dog. The name's interesting -- I wonder if it's related somehow to K-1 from the serial "Robot". Too bad we didn't get to see him build it.
Aha, I knew it, the cheeseball material *is* a tv show of some kind, hah!
This one has a lot of intrigue in it, keeps the story on its toes. There's a pretty nice mystery brewing here, too. I'm liking the crazy variety of characters.
The Doctor has these awesome and phenomenally unhelpful ways to compress advanced science into simple metaphor. In a prior episode, he explained the TARDIS's dimensional transcendance by showing how a far away object appears smaller than a close by object and stating that it's like having the far away object be close up while still being far away. This time around, he explains advanced cloaking technology by covering his face with his hand.
Best I can tell, the Doctor and this new companion are on a fetch quest to get some number of mystical artifacts for some unclear reason. They happen to, in this episode, encounter another being with the same mission (but who is, of course, malevolent). So these keys to time are basically red coins or pokeballs. Gotta catch 'em all! Seriously, though, I'm a bit lost since I haven't seen the first episode of this whole "keys to time" storyline. I think the gaps will fill in as I go, though.
Marshall is a fun character. It's like he's constantly bluffing to the world as well as to himself: "I want every available ship made ready" "But there's only one ship left, sir, your escape... your command module, sir." "Have it made ready!"
One of the military uniforms and weapons (the black suit, towards the end of the third episode when an underling who accidentally transmatted is demanding that the Doctor tell him how he got there) are highly reminiscent of the outfits and weapons in Blake's 7. It's not the same, but my nostalgia button was definitely pressed.
Woohoo, halfway through and it's a pretty interesting episode. Definitely a change of pace, and I'm optimistic about this villain, even though he hasn't gone anything above standard villain cliché yet.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Im going to try to join you guys, I really want to try to watch the first doctor's eps in order, but this 'missing episodes' business sounds really frustrating. At least the fans apparently did a good job with arcs like Marco Polo. But looking at the second doctor's shows, jeez, half of em are completely gone.
GameplayWhore
Member
mattiewheels said:
Yeah, that's why I'm sticking to the marathon for now and then maybe filling in the gaps later. It's hard to watch an hour of stills, or even the ones where they took audio and produced an animated serial based on the stills.
I look forward to your reactions and ruminations. This stuff is fun, but sometimes I feel that I (and my friend from Ronkonkoma, NY -- she's been watching *all* the eps including the stills-based serials, and that's damned hardcore!) am the only person in the universe watching Classic Who.
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Well, next half of "Armageddon Factor" (luckily a convenient cold gave me tons of free time this weekend to help me catch up!)....
So basically the robot dog is a way around the Doctor never carrying weapons. It's a voice activated ray gun with a waggy tail, for the most part.
The companion immediately prior to this one was a total savage who was lost even in a world that we would find quaint, whereas the current one seems to be somewhat on par with the Doctor and far, far more advanced in knowledge than we are. I wonder if they had a staff meeting one night, and somebody stood up and said, "You know, Leela's a pretty extreme example of exposing the Doctor to as primitive a character as possible. What if we just let the pendulum swing all the way to the other side for a while?"
Hah. I thought it was a glitch when the Marshall said "fire" a second time. Clever little gizmo there.
I just noticed that "Bob Baker" co-wrote this serial. Is Baker just a really common English name?
It's a lot of fun watching the Doctor getting bewildered by the numerous fake people projections, especially when he sees himself walking around.
The Doctor meets Drax, a classmate from the academy on Gallifrey. This classmate didn't get his Doctorate, so he builds technological gizmos for people (and was forced into making something for the villanous Shadow here). He also says it's been hundreds of years since he's seen the Doctor. So is he technically a Time Lord? If not, does this mean that non-TLs can be given regenerations, or has he simply lived that long with his single, normal, life? Oh, he has a TARDIS, too. Maybe I'm missing something. Regardless, I really like this character, or at least the character actor behind him.
Wait a sec.... the hero creates a time loop to defeat a malevolent power that wants to destroy everything. Fetch quests are involved, but this isn't Pokemon, it's Majora's Mask!
Heh, they give this K-9 character some amusing human-like traits. It just cleared its throat before acting a prepared line, and earlier on it sighed when Drax turned it upright.
Wait. The "third planet" (actually a space station) is "somewhere" between the two planets. It takes a really long time for a ship to fly from one planet to the other. Then they fire missile at the planet and they just veer off and hit the station in a few seconds, killing the big baddie. I guess it makes sense that the station would be really near the second planet, but this seemed like way too convenient and contrived an ending. ....ah, wait, the Doctor managed it all behind the scenes. I still think my point remains valid.
The bit after reminds me of the more recent "Time Lord Triumphant!". The Doctor ends up with a tool which would give him absolute power over every atom in the universe, and it tempts him something hard.
BTW, very convenient that the princess magically popped back to her home planet instead of where the Key was dispersed or where she last existed in human form or, in fact, anywhere else in the universe.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I just finished the first ever Dalek arc, and it was a lot of fun. The first doctor is actually really great, but he reeealy reminds me of the old guy that covers for the JDF in Life of Brian ('You're weird!') Couldnt be him since he died earlier than that though.
Im actually going to plow through everything i can find online since im so pleasantly surprised at how cracking it is right off the bat. Maybe i'll get to the 3rd doctor soon enough.
Im actually going to plow through everything i can find online since im so pleasantly surprised at how cracking it is right off the bat. Maybe i'll get to the 3rd doctor soon enough.
GameplayWhore
Member
mattiewheels said:
Most of the Dalek stories are above average. If you end up liking them all, I recommend looking up a series called Blake's 7, which was created by the writer of many of the classic Dalek episodes
The show gets dramatically different with each Doctor. For the 3rd, it suddenly turns into a secret agent show (with added Venusian Kung Fu!).
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The City of Death is apparently Paris, and the episode starts out with time loops, though this time around they're part of the problem and not part of the solution.
"Are you alright sir?" "Yes, I just dented my head on your gun, that's all" "What?" "This here."
This is a quip episode -- the writer is trying to pack the Doctor with one-liners, and he's generally succeeding.
Oh, hey, the Count is Julian Glover, dude from Empire Strikes Back and Last Crusade. Bunch of other stuff, too. He also once played a character named "Moffat".
"You're a beautiful woman probably..."
"My dear, I don't think he's as stupid as he seems" "My dear, nobody could be as stupid as he seems"
This is always a sticking point for me: They use a temporal whatits machine to make an egg fully develop into a chicken in a matter of seconds. The idea is that it's speeding up the process dramatically. HOWEVER, the chicken has no access to food or oxygen or even much in the way of light or warmth, if you think about it. The egg should not have the energy needed to fully hatch. Even if the egg were a completely self-contained system or were given enough of what it needed to hatch, the chick would die in mere milliseconds for lack of air, water and food. This is done in visual fiction from now and then, and if puts me in a bit of a tiff. The now only somewhat recent
Time Machine
Also, lol, the Doctor reversed the polarity in this scene. I think it's the first time I've seen him do it not at the end of an episode and not to resolve a major crisis.
By the way, the interplay between Baker and Glover is fantastic. Their questioning of each other (with one-word answers on both sides) after the Doctor discovers the paintings and the meeting right after he takes his little time trip really throw me as fantastically cool.
Romana's only 125 years old. Doc likes 'em young! I should note that (ignoring the ways in which time travel obviously mess this sort of observation up) Romana was not yet alive when the Doctor hit his first regeneration
So this individual taught humanity the secret of fire and helped to raise it from infancy to its modern form in the pursuit of his ultimate goal. Oddly enough, we've already seen aliens with the exact same M.O. The Daemons, which were a bit earlier on in this marathon, arrived on earth one hundred thousand years ago and, as it says on Wikipedia, "influenced Earth throughout its history, becoming part of human myth". And then that giant spider queen thing was in the Earth's core the whole time, the Cybermen have been hanging around just a couple hundred million miles away on upside-down Earth, which probably means they've had lots of opportunity to influence us. There have also been intelligent civilizations on Venus (who know several useful martial arts) and Mars, at least. It's really a shame that Earth doesn't get the slightest chance to start going its own way until well after the Doctor starts his heaviest meddling in the 20th and 21st centuries.
Ahhh, the famous John Cleese scene! I had heard about this. Brief, amusing, didn't take up any excess time.
Anyway, this is a great serial. It's up there with the best. It has the solid characterization of "Talons of Weng Chiang" but with a much stronger story holding it up. Not as powerful as "Inferno", but at least as fun, and while both have silly looking green monsters, you suffer only one of them here and for far less time.
GameplayWhore
Member
I just realized that they only killed like one-sixth of the villain at the end of the last serial. Funny, that. Also, it was rather cool that he was so weak that he could pretty much be laid out by a strong tap on the head. Made it more believable that he'd spend all these millions of years behind the scenes instead of, say, trying to be the God Emperor of Humanity.
I've finally caught up (after this post), so you shouldn't see another WALL OF TEXT from me for another few days.
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Logopolis should have been named "Invasion of the shitty intro". They ditched the cool tunnel effect for a Star Trek style starfield, and the music was "updated" so that it's done with electronic guitars and suchlike. Ugh! Well, it's not obscenely horrible, so I suppose it could get worse.
That's sort of nifty. It starts with the somebody using an actual police box as a police box and not as a time travel device.
Huh, did I miss when the Doctor got little question marks on his collar? Seems a bit misplaced in context. I mean, if his name actually were "Doctor Who" like in the movies, then it would be perfectly sensible, but what is the point of the marks here? Because he's on a constant quest for the unknown?
This serial gives me my first exposure to the back rooms of the TARDIS. I wish it had more variety, but it was nice to see anyway. Did it really take this long to finally poke a camera in that back door?
The Master has more lines of laughter than he has lines of actual speaking in this serial so far. I am not as amused as he. I will admit that it's nice that his ultimate target is not the Doctor, but I would swear that he's had two "HA HA HA HA"s for each line he speaks. Thankfully, it gets a little better later on when he and the Doctor start interacting, but there's been way too much laughter in the past few series of this show as it is!
Nice. The secret of Logopolis is pretty awesome. Usually, the Doctor is fighting to save the universe. This time, it already ended but somebody else took care of the matter. Hah!
I remember this regeneration, the fall off the radio transmitter, from when I was a kid. It rubbed me the wrong way at the time, and I was very disappointed that the Doctor was replaced by this blond impostor. After that, I only played Tripods and Blake's 7 with my friends. Still, they handled the moment well, but I'm a bit iffy on the whole thing with the mysterious white dude having been him all along.
Syth_Blade22 said:haha man you're firing through these quicker than I'm able to find time to read the posts
I've finally caught up (after this post), so you shouldn't see another WALL OF TEXT from me for another few days.
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Logopolis should have been named "Invasion of the shitty intro". They ditched the cool tunnel effect for a Star Trek style starfield, and the music was "updated" so that it's done with electronic guitars and suchlike. Ugh! Well, it's not obscenely horrible, so I suppose it could get worse.
That's sort of nifty. It starts with the somebody using an actual police box as a police box and not as a time travel device.
Huh, did I miss when the Doctor got little question marks on his collar? Seems a bit misplaced in context. I mean, if his name actually were "Doctor Who" like in the movies, then it would be perfectly sensible, but what is the point of the marks here? Because he's on a constant quest for the unknown?
This serial gives me my first exposure to the back rooms of the TARDIS. I wish it had more variety, but it was nice to see anyway. Did it really take this long to finally poke a camera in that back door?
The Master has more lines of laughter than he has lines of actual speaking in this serial so far. I am not as amused as he. I will admit that it's nice that his ultimate target is not the Doctor, but I would swear that he's had two "HA HA HA HA"s for each line he speaks. Thankfully, it gets a little better later on when he and the Doctor start interacting, but there's been way too much laughter in the past few series of this show as it is!
Nice. The secret of Logopolis is pretty awesome. Usually, the Doctor is fighting to save the universe. This time, it already ended but somebody else took care of the matter. Hah!
I remember this regeneration, the fall off the radio transmitter, from when I was a kid. It rubbed me the wrong way at the time, and I was very disappointed that the Doctor was replaced by this blond impostor. After that, I only played Tripods and Blake's 7 with my friends. Still, they handled the moment well, but I'm a bit iffy on the whole thing with the mysterious white dude having been him all along.
charlequin
Banned
GameplayWhore said:
Not even kidding: it's because the costume designer really liked question marks.
I think it was actually the showrunner who wanted the ?????? thing everywhere. John Nathan Turner, who was kind of the 80s version of RTD, in that a lot of people really disliked him while a lot of others really loved him.
Oh boy will it ever. Yes, yes it will. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Oh boy will it ever. Yes, yes it will. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
charlequin
Banned
maharg said:
Oh. Yup, I think you're right, and that fits -- the ?s showed up at the tail end of #4 and stuck around 'til sometime in #7.
(The celery was his idea too, IIRC.)
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