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Magic: the Gathering |OT10| Aether Revolt - That shit that make your Soul Burn slow
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
- Status
They've also stopped pushing Equipment because it tends to be either "too weak" or "busted as fuck." Aaron's on the record as SFM being a "LOLNO" unban, and there's good reason for it- the issue with the card is the cost cheating.
Also, Batterskull saw moderate play in Midrange decks. The format just got weird after Eldrazi Winter and never recovered.
Also, Batterskull saw moderate play in Midrange decks. The format just got weird after Eldrazi Winter and never recovered.
Walking Ballista in Modern.
Infinite Stars
Member
Okay, then explain to me. Why is Preordain so bad? I'm not suggesting an unban of Ponder(Fuck that), but Preordain? It's a Reverse Serum Visions, in a format where one of the biggest complaints is "I have to draw into one of my anti-Affinity cards in my opening hand+2 or I die", where being able to set up your next draws.
I said printed after Mystic was banned. None of those were, and lol at Thopter-Sword being a deck. It's not even on the fringes of playable because of how bad Blue/White collectively are in Modern
Forsythe also said "LolNo" to Jace, yet he literally tweeted about considering it. The quote about Mystic is years old at this point.
: shrug :
They're not pushing equipment. Probably ever again if they can help it.
Also if you don't think SFM + Batterskull would be un-fun for the format, you're smoking crack.
Because Preordain is very, very close to Ponder. It lets you go 3 cards deep into your deck. (Doesn't it see Legacy play as cantrip 9/10 in some decks?)
It's not years old, it came up about a year ago at the time of the Twin ban.
I still have no idea how people can play Yu-Gi-Oh. The text is so small the cards are barely readable
Clear as mud
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I have no idea how I keep beating people with my Tezzeret deck. I guess I just don't run into B/G HUGE DUDES as often as I imagined.
Infinite Stars
Member
If they're not going to push equipment, then swap Batterskull for Mystic on the banlist. One is the very definition of a pushed Mythic, the other one is a Roleplayer that helps out one of the worst colors in modern.
Mystic can get killed by any removal spell, BSkull gets killed by any artifact spell. It's not like we've literally gotten a safety valve for the two in the form of K-Command, which kills both cards for less Mana.
Preordain lets you go up to 3 cards deep, which is one less then Ponder, but one more then Serum Visions. I'm not sure how that's somehow "almost" as strong as Ponder, because Visions really isn't cutting it when Bauble/Stirrings are in the format.
Do you have a link for that last part? Because the results I get upon googling "Aaron Forsythe Stoneforge Mystic" gets me only stuff from 2014 or earlier, with the first link being a mtgs thread from 2014, where Forsythe says he doesn't think Sword of the meek would be unbanned.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Why would you swap a card that sees scattered, reasonable amounts of play for a different card that's potentially broken?
Infinite Stars
Member
Because Mystic isn't broken. Again, Forsythe thought Sword would break Aggro in 2014, and it hasn't done shit in the year off of the list.
There's literally a 2 part article on Modern Nexus where the author tested Mystic in Modern Abzan, and the only Matchup that had a substantial swing was Burn.
http://modernnexus.com/testing-stoneforge-mystic-part-one/
http://modernnexus.com/testing-stoneforge-mystic-part-two/
Equipment isn't creatures, where they've continually pushed them: The two best equipment are banned in modern, why not add B-Skull to the list if it means you can take off Stone forge?
Outside ANT you really only see it in Sneak and Show. Including the former seems a bit insipid too as it's a storm deck.
It is however a mandatory 4 of in Pauper as Brainstorm is pretty bad without fetch lands.
charlequin
Banned
Okay, fair. This pointer about PT Amsterdam makes it a little clearer to me why I wasn't sure about this -- pretty sure I wasn't following competitive formats much at that time and I missed that PT altogether, when it seems like it was the real serious showcase of that deck.
Bauble is certainly in that same category as Probe but it really is way less good. One card on the library is far less useful info than the whole hand; waiting a turn for the card reduces some of its efficacy in a pure combo environment.
What (if anything) do you think the proper power level for a Standard-legal 1-mana blue cantrip is?
Opt, Peek, Sleight of hand, and maybe even Serum Visions are all fine
I think that being able to select from more than 2 cards at 1 mana is too strong
charlequin
Banned
Yes, it's definitely on the potential list, I just wanted to note that there's a very logical reason that Probe is banned and it currently isn't.
Right. I'm with you on this. Batterskull is a good-to-great but not broken card on its own. SFM is a tutor + a 1/2 body + a cheat into play card that 100% restricts their ability to change their mind on ever pushing equipment again that only costs two mana.
Bye-bye SFM.
Infinite Stars
Member
I don't get this line of arguing. First Off, Mystic costs 2 and tutors, but the ability also costs 2. It's not this 2 mana "You win the game" card, with the exception of B-Skull you still have to pay the equip cost to make it not just sit there.
Secondly, I don't see Wizards toning down their legendary creatures because Goryo's Vengeance is a card that exists in Modern and they have to mind it. We didn't see Wizards take a look at the Eldrazi and go "Yeah, we shouldn't make them have 8 Sol Lands" when designing OGW. I doubt they'd care about Mystic when having to design for Standard.
66% of the broken Equipment that's been printed was in the first 2 years of it existing. No other card type can say that. No one looks at creatures and thinks the best were in the first two blocks, no one looks at Land that way, or Enchantments, or Instants/Sorceries and can say that 66% of the best cards in that type were when it was being first showcased.
Batterskull has to be the ceiling for what Equipment can be now, considering the previous two mistakes. Batterskull, despite being a stupid card, barely sees play in Modern. Why? Because Turn 5 Batterskull isn't good enough when your opponent is casting turn 1 10/10 Death's Shadow, or Turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer, or Turn 2 threatening to swing for 10 infect. This idea that somehow a Turn 2 Stoneforge Mystic, followed by a Turn 3 Batterskull is unfair in a format where Turn 3 Tron can play Karn, Jund plays Lilianna, Eldrazi plays Reality Smasher, Knightfall Combos out, etc is absurdist.
I mean, Wizards unbanned Grave-Troll, despite them knowing what was in the line wrt Cathartic Reunion, Prized Amalgam, etc. They failed to print any safety valves to Marvel, Emrakul, etc. Worst case scenario: They unban Mystic, it destroys the format for a few months, they have to reban it. Best case: They get it off the list, it's good but doesn't destroy the format, and White finally stops being the "Sideboard" color.
Preordain and ban something from Goyro's vengence and we are good imho.
This is such a bullshit argument for me. Wizards has GONE ON RECORD to say that they don't look at past cards for "limited design space." If this was the case then the devoid mechanic makes no sense since it does nothing in standard currently. So let me ask you. Did Eldrazi temple/eye of ugin limit thought knot/reality smasher's design space? Also the expertise cards haven't broken anything which proves that cost reduction can work.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm with you infinite. I don't get the hate gaf has for SFM in modern, even stony silence makes you only have to deal with the germ token from batterskull.
If you unban SFM, you will inevitably have to ban it again. THAT is the problem. That is why it constrain them going forward if people are attached to the card and start designing around it.
Eye/Temple were ignored because they wanted to do cheap Eldrazi, and to do that you had to risk some going off the rails when combo'd with the older stuff.
Eye/Temple were ignored because they wanted to do cheap Eldrazi, and to do that you had to risk some going off the rails when combo'd with the older stuff.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Even if that were the case, GGT getting off and on the list is little more than a funny anecdote. It was a fine card to have unbanned up until Kaladesh, Cathartic Reunion changed that and it was banned again.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I liked Patrick Chapin's description of SFM that it's Black Lotus plus Demonic Tutor that leaves a body behind.
Maybe. I'm not sure at this point that WotC will even print a half way decent equipment again. Even at the mythic slot they dont do it. Plus they will probably be focusing on fucking up with vehicles until they go the same path equips followed.
It was a good before that. Amalgam and Neonate had already made the deck very competitive.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
GGT was unbanned for the chance of dredge getting good but not too good, Amalgam and Neonate fulfilled that w/o getting busted.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";230845166]I liked Patrick Chapin's description of SFM that it's Black Lotus plus Demonic Tutor that leaves a body behind.[/QUOTE]
If you could interact with Black Lotus and it were summoning sick it'd be a much less powerful card.
But still too strong for Modern.
Infinite Stars
Member
It's hard for the "Mystic hurts design space" when A) Wizards has openly admitted they don't test for Modern B) D&D have shown that they can completely miss the mark on the strength of cards in a format (Copter, Fetch+Tangos, Thopter-Sword Strength in Modern) C) The 600+games that have been tested from the Modern Nexus article I posted earlier show a negligible difference except against Burn, and considering the notes made the Burn player had no idea what to do D) The format has a literal 3 Mana answer(Kolaghan's Command) to Mystic+BSkull that's played in two of the "gauntlet" decks, for lack of a better term (Grixis Control or Delver and Jund) E) only 13 equipment in Modern is 4CMC or higher, meaning that the most you're cheating on is generally 1-2, something that can be interrupted by literally any interaction with the Mystic AND F)Even without Mystic, the "best" we've had in Modern since SoM is probably Godsend/Elbrus. Sure, there's "better" equipment (the swords), but there's clearly no lost design space when they've put two cards with unique effects at Mythic and both have been recieved with mediocre response.
Whoever greenlit Heart of Kiran's alternate crew cost in the same format with Gideon deserves to be mocked endlessly, because it's so stupid.
Well, I mean, they're 2 for 2 in having a fucked up vehicle design in the two sets they've been in.
Whoever greenlit Heart of Kiran's alternate crew cost in the same format with Gideon deserves to be mocked endlessly, because it's so stupid.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Bring on the Jace/SFM unban utopia, baby.
Creatures(8):
Sideboard:
Creatures(8):
- 4x Stoneforge Mystic
- 4x Snapcaster Mage
- 3x Thopter Foundry
- 1x Sword of the Meek
- 1x Batterskull
- 4x Serum Visions
- 4x Inquisition of Kozilek
- 2x Thoughtseize
- 4x Path to Exile
- 2x Fatal Push
- 1x Collective Brutality
- 1x Anguished Unmaking
- 3x Liliana of the Veil
- 4x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
Sideboard:
- 1x Supreme Verdict
- 1x Painful Truths
- 1x Engineered Explosives
- 1x Grafdigger's Cage
- 1x Pithing Needle
- 1x Rest In Peace
- 1x Vendillion Clique
- 1x Ceremonious Rejection
- 1x Duress
- 2x Stony Silence
- 2x Timely Reinforcements
- 2x Dispel
SigmasonicX
Member
There has to be a card like this in Amonkhet.
Mummify - 4B
Sorcery
Put target creature card from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types. Then you may search your library for a Curse card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
Mummify - 4B
Sorcery
Put target creature card from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control. That creature is a black Zombie in addition to its other colors and types. Then you may search your library for a Curse card, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";230846462]Bring on the Jace/SFM unban utopia, baby.
Creatures(8):
Sideboard:
No lingering souls?
Creatures(8):
- 4x Stoneforge Mystic
- 4x Snapcaster Mage
- 3x Thopter Foundry
- 1x Sword of the Meek
- 1x Batterskull
- 4x Serum Visions
- 4x Inquisition of Kozilek
- 2x Thoughtseize
- 4x Path to Exile
- 2x Fatal Push
- 1x Collective Brutality
- 1x Anguished Unmaking
- 3x Liliana of the Veil
- 4x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
Sideboard:
- 1x Supreme Verdict
- 1x Painful Truths
- 1x Engineered Explosives
- 1x Grafdigger's Cage
- 1x Pithing Needle
- 1x Rest In Peace
- 1x Vendillion Clique
- 1x Ceremonious Rejection
- 1x Duress
- 2x Stony Silence
- 2x Timely Reinforcements
- 2x Dispel
No lingering souls?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Gideon looks fugly and Nissa super out of place. Are we getting another Nissa already after Kaladesh?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It looks a lot like his original art just browner.
Gideon used to be pale as porcelain.
Yeah, they retconned him into being more Mediterranean at some point. I'm all for adding diversity, I just don't get why they can't simply make new characters for it.
They do, they just don't draw attention to it. Alesha, Arlinn, Saheeli, Kynaios and Tiro all represent the game's broadening representation. However, they're also so convinced that the Gatewatch is the face of the game that they don't give other characters enough spotlight and exposure.
Right but then why retcon him at all? Put some focus on a new character
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
They needed gideon for the shipping with Chandra.
That's the worst about the Gatewatch. They add all these characters, that could be interesting if they were given ample screen time, then make a white af Gatewatch and even deage most of them.
Infinite Stars
Member
Because WotC loves Mean Girls:
"Gideon, why are you White?"
"Oh my gosh Nissa, you just can't ask someone why they're White!"
"Well, I mean, you're from Theros and a soldier/street urchin, so why are you White?"
"Same reason why I'm white, Nissa: Story didn't realize my home plane until Origins."
Same thing with Chandra really. She should be Kaladeshi, and instead she's white as hell.
Ehhhhh. As bad as the two current Snapcaster pieces are I don't really care much for the MM17 box art either. It's not bad but it's not altogether very interesting either. The two previous versions of Guide were more appealing to me than this new piece but with a reprint maybe those will go low enough that I can pick some older copies up cheap.
Can we just get the spoilers already?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I love Brazilian soccer player Snappy.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
Not sure what will be discussed but three WotC employees are on a DICE presentation later.
http://live.interactive.org/
11:45 AM - 12:30 PM (Pacific Standard Time)
Windows into Worlds
Jeremy Jarvis
Principal Designer, Worlds and IP
Wizards of the Coast
Doug Beyer
Sr. Game Designer
Wizards of the Coast
Moderator
Min Kim
Co-Founder
Bonfire Studios
EDIT:
And later
2:15 PM - 3:00 PM (Pacific Standard Time)
Turning the Tables
Mike Mearls
Design Director
Wizards of the Coast
Nicole Lindroos
General Manager
Green Ronin
Josh Mosqueira
Designer and Co-Founder
Bonfire Studios
Moderator
Randy Pitchford
President and CEO
Gearbox Software
http://live.interactive.org/
11:45 AM - 12:30 PM (Pacific Standard Time)
Windows into Worlds
Jeremy Jarvis
Principal Designer, Worlds and IP
Wizards of the Coast
Doug Beyer
Sr. Game Designer
Wizards of the Coast
Moderator
Min Kim
Co-Founder
Bonfire Studios
EDIT:
And later
2:15 PM - 3:00 PM (Pacific Standard Time)
Turning the Tables
Mike Mearls
Design Director
Wizards of the Coast
Nicole Lindroos
General Manager
Green Ronin
Josh Mosqueira
Designer and Co-Founder
Bonfire Studios
Moderator
Randy Pitchford
President and CEO
Gearbox Software
- Status