it's just a bit odd that in my testing, zombies didn't fare all that well against Marvel either, and they are slower than Mardu. Marvel with Flamecaller/Sweltering Suns/Radiant Flames will be a giant pain for zombies
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Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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it's just a bit odd that in my testing, zombies didn't fare all that well against Marvel either, and they are slower than Mardu. Marvel with Flamecaller/Sweltering Suns/Radiant Flames will be a giant pain for zombies
SigmasonicX
Member
I don't see the problem with energy being uninteractive. It's really just that Aetherworks Marvel needed to be adjusted in some way, either increasing the mana cost or making the ability require a sacrifice.
Imperfected
Member
I have a Four Color Superfriends EDH deck that's basically a control deck since it's not particularly looking to combo off. (I mean, I'm still running Doubling Season and Deepglow Skate in there, I'm just not tutoring them to pair with insta-win ultimates.)
The deck's a lot of fun to play since most people don't actually expect to see you putting down a bunch of 3/4 mana planeswalkers with token generation instead of just quietly setting up your combo in Superfriends, but it definitely does not win games the same way the combo version of the deck does. I've probably won more games milling people with Party Jace in that deck than anything else. (No one expects the Party Jace Inquisition.)
this is likely quite problematic for WotC. They probably want to sell those Amonkhet boosters
That's pretty much my takeaway. I was hoping for ur control to emerge as a pillar of the format. Would have liked to see more archetype diversity across the marvel decks in the top 8 as well- I loved Reid Dukes sultan version, for example.
You'd think with a shift in counters towards a handful more exile centric ones in the main deck and side- dissipates, summary dismissals, and maybe even horribly awrys- ur control could compete against both zombies and marvels. Dismissal is expensive but being able to deal with an ulamog cast or relentless dead permanently seems worth it. Can catch the odd Scrapheap scrounger still hanging around too.
With problematic planeswalkers taking a backseat at the moment, dissipate might even be better than disallow now.
I hate that it can be dropped on Turn 4 with reliability to go off.
I will be actively sideboarding both Forsake the Worldly + Cast Out just for hate against this deck.
Cast Out is easily main-deckable in most white decks anyway
oh for sure. the card is just insanely good.
I often wonder if it isn't marvel or the concept of energy itself, but the fact that the deck gets to run lightning spear, traverse, a bigger elvish visionary, a scry 2 draw 2 for 4, and a pia nalaar that all just happen to give you the energy you need. I know that they wanted energy cards to get played, so the cards had to be good in their own right, but it's to the point that the energy basically doesn't count as a cost at all against pricing the card. (As the number of times marvel decks win just off their value creatures alone and the existence of non marvel energy value decks illustrates) Slightly cheaper puzzleknots are more in line with what I would have liked to see for the energy generating cards.
they somehow managed to avoid doing something ridicules with Improvise. I'd say that's a sign of improvement
someone on reddit pointed out that we went from CoCo's "I'll pay 4 mana and grab something stupid from the top 6 cards of my deck" to Marvel's "I'll pay 4 mana and grab something stupid from the top 6 cards of my deck". They should probably be more careful with this type of effect on future cards
someone on reddit pointed out that we went from CoCo's "I'll pay 4 mana and grab something stupid from the top 6 cards of my deck" to Marvel's "I'll pay 4 mana and grab something stupid from the top 6 cards of my deck". They should probably be more careful with this type of effect on future cards
As SaffronOlive pointed out - this stuff is all over HS. It's not a good thing.
Infinite Stars
Member
At least CoCo had a hard limit of 3 Mana and not just "Grab whatever the fuck you want".
CoCo also is one of those cards that I'm 90% certain it was only as good as it was because Wizards Boosting 3Drops+Axing 1CMC Dorks. When you can go CoCo on turn 3/4 in Modern and get "Bird, Land, Hierarch, Land, Path, Pridemage" it feels so much worse then "Duskwatch, Land, Reflector Mage, Command, Land, Queller".
Marvel can't even do that right.
CoCo also is one of those cards that I'm 90% certain it was only as good as it was because Wizards Boosting 3Drops+Axing 1CMC Dorks. When you can go CoCo on turn 3/4 in Modern and get "Bird, Land, Hierarch, Land, Path, Pridemage" it feels so much worse then "Duskwatch, Land, Reflector Mage, Command, Land, Queller".
I mean, at least Hearthstone generally just cheats it into play, avoiding Battlecry/ETB/Cast Triggers.
Marvel can't even do that right.
Imperfected
Member
I'm still not sure about that. Like I said, it's just that there's so much dumb shit out there that people aren't bothering to look very hard. Hell, even Cryptolith Rite didn't get a particularly hard scrutiny, because doing inane shit in Standard has just been too easy for anyone to bother for a surprisingly long time.
That's sort of normal for a competitive meta, of course--as soon as you find the broken thing that needs to be fixed, the players are already onto the next one--it's just been exacerbated by a combination of the long rotation and how slow they were to react to the seriously borked condition of Standard.
Edit: Marvel having the specific "cast" wording is a real goddamn mystery to me, I'll admit. I honestly thought this was a solved problem in Magic's game design, as it seemed like a long time ago they figured out that "put on the battlefield" vs. "Cast" was a very important distinction and not a can of worms to open unless they were super extra double sure they had covered all the bases, and probably not even then. It's like they just went asking for trouble. I mean, you can even see the difference within the span of the block, as Planar Bridge isn't borked...
Infinite Stars
Member
I'd imagine we got Cast because "Huh, we've got some fun Instants/Sorcerer's in the next few blocks, let's let Marvel get these" and trying to save on a wordy card.
I'm going to assume that they'll be extra careful with that wording in the foreseeable future
that, and flickering "permanents"
Imperfected
Member
That sure didn't work out of them. I think the most exciting thing I've seen was a Nissa's Revelation, haha. It's mostly just Glimmers and Harnessed Lightnings all day err day.
charlequin
Banned
One of the major successful archetypes in this PT was heavily dependent on AKH cards, though, which is probably a bigger factor for them overall.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
charlequin is right, New Perspectives is the answer we've all been waiting for
just a novice opinion, but I'm not very optimistic about the prospect of zombies decks in the long run (until we see what Hours got to offer, anyway). All the winner decks run Colossus, Cryptbreaker and Lord (and most of them Mimic), they are commited to building a strong board presence thus very vulnerable to sweepers. Okay, Dread Wanderer and Scrounger (currently in the sideboard) come back eventually and the following Colossi get bigger, but a 2/1 pre-buffs or 3/2 ain't exactly the most threatening creatures in the late game. And then you still got hate cards like Magma Spray or Descend upon the Sinful (here's an idea for a plausible Marvel spell target), Declaration in Stone is also getting more attractive again against both recursion and tokens. I just feel like the deck has some obvious exploitable weaknesses right now
It has cast for the gearhulks, which are the bombs that WOTC thought everyone would be grabbing. Then rotation changed and the Eldrazi are still here.
Ya I don't really see zombies being a top deck going forward. People will just start maindecking Sweltering Suns in addition to just Marveling in Ulamog. That's not even counting a counter-pick deck that could arise with the forgotten eldrazi and Kozilek's Return.
I wonder what happened to Grixis Emerge. That's the deck I'd play in standard if I was in the position to regularly attend FNM this Summer and SoI wasn't rotating out in a few month. Lots of recursion and access to counterspells against control. I suspect it might struggle a bit against other midrange decks that go bigger and wider
e: is Jhoira of the Ghitu as fun of a EDH commander as I believe her to be? Wouldn't all her stuff get countered? Oh, since you'd probably be playing lots of hideously expensive cards, wouldn't the commander be a super huge target for removals to shut you out of the game?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
why are you using the top 8 results as standard gospel when they publish standard results separately?
Really interesting Mardu Vehicles didn't make Top 8.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I kinda feel like cards in the vein of Emrakul, Ulamog, etc. should just launch banned in Standard? Without them to play off of, Aetherwork Marvel type cards get a lot less problematic, which is good because it has interesting potential when it's not simply gamebreaking.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
There's still a lot of cards to be hit off marvel if you ignore BFZ. They are just much worse against control decks.
This defeats the purpose of even printing those cards in the first place
Emrakul is still oppressive in bg delirium.
GregLombardi
Member
Not nearly to the extent that it is in marvel. BG delirium was dealable.
PPTQ went horribly today. D:
It's so frustrating when you wake up early and pay money only to get destroyed again and again. I haven't had success at a competitive event except for the first time I attended and that's it. I played Martin Muller's deck for the most part, with some changes to the sideboard and my deck was absolutely atrocious against UR control. It was about 30% of the meta at the event today. I won my matches against Zombies and Mardu easilly, and lost twice to UR control. I had 4 Negates and a Dispel alongside three Tireless Trackers in the sideboard. I really should have brought some Sphinx of the Final Word or World Breakers. I kinda want to see Zombies triumph over Ulamog, but I highly doubt that's gonna happen.
It's so frustrating when you wake up early and pay money only to get destroyed again and again. I haven't had success at a competitive event except for the first time I attended and that's it. I played Martin Muller's deck for the most part, with some changes to the sideboard and my deck was absolutely atrocious against UR control. It was about 30% of the meta at the event today. I won my matches against Zombies and Mardu easilly, and lost twice to UR control. I had 4 Negates and a Dispel alongside three Tireless Trackers in the sideboard. I really should have brought some Sphinx of the Final Word or World Breakers. I kinda want to see Zombies triumph over Ulamog, but I highly doubt that's gonna happen.
I assume blue control just gets eaten alive by the aggressive decks enough for Marvel to not worry about it?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
low to the ground aggressive creatures post board.
You beat them with Virtuosos, Refiners and Servants (and trackers post board) while they're too busy countering and dealing with your Marvels and Planeswalkers.
Second Lost Legacy.
I was on the loo, what did he name? Ulamog and Chandra?
Yup.
Nice. I wonder if Muller can win with just the value creatures. Should be hard against the zombie horde.
Sweeper for the win.
I always chuckle that the emoji is missing a char when used on mobile.
¯_(ツ
I always chuckle that the emoji is missing a char when used on mobile.
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