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[divisionbyzorro]

I'm not very good at draft even though I enjoy it, so I tend to not like Khans as much as maybe I should. Its just too skill-intensive.

I'm not in a position where I "have" to get good at a format - that's the beauty of having Magic as a casual hobby, not as a way of life. Historically, I've only ever gotten good at formats that I like; Khans never really resonated with me, so I never could bring myself to study it and get better at it. I said DGR was the last to be the same way, but actually the best recent example is Vintage Masters; I hated that format, so I never bothered to learn how to play it correctly (and in fact I just stopped played it altogether, since you could just draft the "real" format at the time).

 

[aidan]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";138869314]Man force of will is the most fun card ever after brain storm.[/QUOTE]

You're forgetting about Stasis.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm not in a position where I "have" to get good at a format - that's the beauty of having Magic as a casual hobby, not as a way of life. Historically, I've only ever gotten good at formats that I like; Khans never really resonated with me, so I never could bring myself to study it and get better at it. I said DGR was the last to be the same way, but actually the best recent example is Vintage Masters; I hated that format, so I never bothered to learn how to play it correctly (and in fact I just stopped played it altogether, since you could just draft the "real" format at the time).

I really like Vintage Masters because it was so easy to identify the good archetypes and cards. Also, force red/white tokens.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";138869314]Man force of will is the most fun card ever after brain storm.[/QUOTE]

100% of Tier 1 decks in Vintage and Legacy are blue because of Force of Will and Brainstorm. I play Force in Vintage and its a fun card, but I also have lots and lots of tools to play around free counters.

 

[WanderingWind]

I've decided I want to build Modern Zoo. It's not tier 1 any more, but playing this on DotP is such great fun. I don't even get salty when I lose.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Just played a Vintage Dredge player who was super salty about playing Vintage Dredge.

 

[An-Det]

I've decided I want to build Modern Zoo. It's not tier 1 any more, but playing this on DotP is such great fun. I don't even get salty when I lose.

I've really wanted to build Zoo in Modern. I've been away from the format for a while, but Zoo lists are some of the few decks in Modern that get me excited to actually play it again.

 

[ultron87]

Just played a Vintage Dredge player who was super salty about playing Vintage Dredge.

You mean he was mad it was the mirror? What even happens in a Dredge mirror? Is is just who goes off better?

 

[Exokell]

cannot fucking login with MTGO, shit

 

[WanderingWind]

I've really wanted to build Zoo in Modern. I've been away from the format for a while, but Zoo lists are some of the few decks in Modern that get me excited to actually play it again.

I've got to pick a list. Thinking this

4 x Steppe Lynx
4 x Tarmogoyf
4 x Wild Nacatyl
4 x Knight of the Reliquary
4 x Pridemage
4 x Kird Ape

4 x Lighting Bolt
4 x Path to Exile
2 x Gutshot
2 x Boros Charm

4 x Windswept Heath
4 x Arid Mesa
4 x Wooded Foothills
4 x Sacred Foundry
4 x Temple Garden
2 x Forest
1 x Mountain
1 x Plains

SB:
3 x Dismember
3 x Relic of Progenitus
2 x Stony Silence
2 x Destructive Revelry
1 x Shatterstorm
2 x Pyroclasm
2 x Thrun

 

[Angry Grimace]

You mean he was mad it was the mirror? What even happens in a Dredge mirror? Is is just who goes off better?

No, he was just salty about how hard it is to win Games 1-2. But you play your own hate; just not symmetrical hate. Leyline of the Void is a good card for a Dredge player even outside of the mirror because it prevents oppoenents players from bolting their own Delvers to exile your Bridge from Belows. Tormod's Crypt is also good as is Ravenous Trap.

//

(For the uninitiated, here's the quick n dirty AG Vintage Dredge primer)

LANDS

4 Undiscovered Paradise
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 City of Brass (Ed: I use Mana Confluence so I don't have to stack more triggers)
4 Dakmor Salvage (Petrified Field acceptable; expensive. Dredge 3)

25 CREATURES

4 Golgari Grave-Troll (Dredge 6)
4 Bloodghast (Landfall: Return to play from GY to Battlefield)
4 Stinkweed Imp (Dredge 5)
4 Narcomoeba (When put into GY from library, put into play)
3 Ichorid (During upkeep, may exile black creature from GY to put into play. Sac at end of turn)
1 Flame-Kin Zealot (Gives all creatures haste and +1/+1)
1 Sun Titan (return card with CMC 3 or less to play when ETB or attack)
2 Golgari Thug (Dredge 4)

INSTANTS and SORC.

4 Cabal Therapy (name a card, opponent discards all cards of that name. Flashback - Sac a creature)
4 Mental Misstep (1 blue Phyrexian Mana - counter a 1CMC spell.)
2 Darkblast (Target gets -2/-1; dredge 2)
4 Dread Return (Flashback - Sac 3 creatures - return creature from GY to play)

8 OTHER SPELLS

4 Bridge from Below
4 Serum Powder

You mulligan any hand that does not contain Bazaar of Baghdad. If your hand contains Serum Powder and not Bazaar of Baghdad, exile your hand to get more shots at Bazaar of Baghdad.

Put cards with Dredge and Bridge from Below into the GY. Start dredging through your whole deck on Turn 2. Assuming you played a land next turn (either from your hand or you dredged Dakmor Salvage), you will likely put a Bloodghast into play, or a Narcomoeba from the dredging or you can exile a Thug/Imp to pull an Ichorid into play. Sac the Bloodghasts and/or Narcomoeba to Cabal Therapy naming Force of Will which puts Zombies in play as a side effect of the sacrifice from Bridge from Below. Your Ichorids die on their own to make more zombies, but you can also sac them for Cabal Therapy or Dread Return.

The deck is literally the best deck in Magic unhated. It is very hard to lose game one, even to broken Vintage decks unless they happen to go-off on Storm or Vault-Key on Turns 1 or 2.

The problem is that Game 2 is when your opponent sides in hate in the form of Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peach, Grafdigger's Cage, etc. The Dredge gameplan in game 2/3 is to side out virtually every unnecessary card (e.g. Sun Titan, Fatesticher, etc.) and side in massive numbers of Chain of Vapor, Nature's Claim, and my ultimate favorite, Serenity)

WOTC is giving out copies of the Power Nine to the top 3 players in the Holiday Vintage tourny who don't run the Power 9, but then added Bazaar to that list to stop people like me from just entering with Dredge because Bazaar is a one card combo. Bazaar is just that good - it is almost literally a one card combo by itself. Legacy Dredge is a fringe deck, yet the only important card (meaning Mental Misstep can be discounted) in this deck that isn't legal in Legacy is Bazaar of Baghdad.

 

["God's Beard!"]

So you're saying to unban Bazaar in Legacy.

 

[f0rk]

I've got to pick a list. Thinking this

4 x Steppe Lynx
4 x Tarmogoyf
4 x Wild Nacatyl
4 x Knight of the Reliquary
4 x Pridemage
4 x Kird Ape

4 x Lighting Bolt
4 x Path to Exile
2 x Gutshot
2 x Boros Charm

4 x Windswept Heath
4 x Arid Mesa
4 x Wooded Foothills
4 x Sacred Foundry
4 x Temple Garden
2 x Forest
1 x Mountain
1 x Plains

SB:
3 x Dismember
3 x Relic of Progenitus
2 x Stony Silence
2 x Destructive Revelry
1 x Shatterstorm
2 x Pyroclasm
2 x Thrun

Start with Jacob Wilson's list which had some videos on channelfireball a few weeks ago.

 

[Firemind]

I miss the Boros Swiftblade + Might of Alara zoo decks. Even Tribal Flames is not good enough apparently.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";138880816]So you're saying to unban Bazaar in Legacy.[/QUOTE]

Unbanning Bazaar in Legacy would break Legacy in half. You can't even Mental Misstep Cabal Therapy in Legacy. The reason Bazaar is so good is because you can't counter Bazaar in any real way other than playing Wasteland. Which doesn't work very well when Petrified Field is a card.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

Dude probably conceded because he figured he wouldn't have any fun playing the game. It's demoralizing to get your lands blown up over and over, and if it's just a casual game, he has no reason to keep playing if he feels it won't be fun.

That's fair - but there are loads of 'unfun' decks that cruise around the casual MTGO rooms. It just feels weird to have someone auto-concede when Pillage or Stone Rain comes out but they'll be rocking a deck of Counterspell, Spell Pierce, etc.

I mean, Miracles is a real deck and I've played it a couple times in the Just for Fun room. I don't have an extensive knowledge of boring decks of the past, but in the current Legacy meta, is there a more 'unfun' deck? I always root for the non-Miracles player in any matchup I see (Sorry GB)

Do the same people who concede to Turn 2 Raze + Turn 3 Stone Rain concede when a Divining Top + Counterbalance hits the table?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Unbanning Bazaar in Legacy would break Legacy in half. You can't even Mental Misstep Cabal Therapy in Legacy. The reason Bazaar is so good is because you can't counter Bazaar in any real way other than playing Wasteland. Which doesn't work very well when Petrified Field is a card.

So you're saying unban Bazaar in Legacy.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";138890668]So you're saying unban Bazaar in Legacy.[/QUOTE]

I'm saying Legacy sucks because Yawgmoth's Will and Necropotence are banned.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm saying Legacy sucks because Yawgmoth's Will and Necropotence are banned.

We can fix everything at once.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Paul Cheon learning how Cursed Scroll works.

http://www.twitch.tv/haumph/b/588547392?t=2h1m20s

:lol :lol

Spoiler

LSV: "I didn't say anything because it was too funny."

 

[SigmasonicX]

Hey, someone asked my question.

cryptrat said: Is it possible a Suspend variant could come around that was essentially just Suspend 1? No counters involved there.

If we did it again, that’s the most likely way we’d do it. It’s a big if though.

 

[charlequin]

Conspiracy did alright AFAIK, but not great.

No, pretty much everything they've said about it has been that it was extremely successful. It's just a supplemental summer set so "extremely well" still isn't nearly as big as the sales of a regular fall set.

I would rather play almost anything else on Steam than draft Triple Khans right now.

You sure this is actually related to Khans and not to MTGO being a rancid, festering turd?

They've cut down a lot on unfun cards recently. There's a reason Force of Will doesn't get reprinted.

Yeah, but that reason is because it would be awkward in Standard and people who spent a lot of money on them would be mad, mostly.

 

["God's Beard!"]

How bad would blue have to be for people to not play Brainstorm in Standard?

 

[WanderingWind]

Start with Jacob Wilson's list which had some videos on channelfireball a few weeks ago.

He doesn't like Knight, which I dunno about. I think it's a pretty sexy card. If I were to pull that for Ooze, I'd pull the Lynxs for Loam Lion, I think.

Helix is obviously a great card and I'd put two of those in for the Gut Shots. I love me some Gut Shots, but I guess they're not wholly relevant in this deck.

 

[Firemind]

I'm not in a position where I "have" to get good at a format - that's the beauty of having Magic as a casual hobby, not as a way of life. Historically, I've only ever gotten good at formats that I like; Khans never really resonated with me, so I never could bring myself to study it and get better at it. I said DGR was the last to be the same way, but actually the best recent example is Vintage Masters; I hated that format, so I never bothered to learn how to play it correctly (and in fact I just stopped played it altogether, since you could just draft the "real" format at the time).

Vintage Masters felt more like cube lite to me than Khans. Khans is like Onslaught redux, only it's possible to have a five colour mana base and play all your bombs. Losing to bombs when you don't have bombs yourself is lame, but sometimes you draft a deck where everything just clicks.

Last night for example I started out with Duneblast p1p1 and Ankle Shanker p1p2. In the end I didn't play the Shanker (because I picked up a Butcher of the Horde), but I was pretty much steamrolling the late game. Second draft I somehow ended up with Temur Control, which is a first. Ended up countering Sidisi and Sentinels with Trap Essence and smash in return. So satisfying. Cards like Awaken the Bear and Dragonscale Boon would have been bad giant growths in other formats, but because Khans emphasizes morph creature battles and lacks cheap instant removal, they can be allstars.

So I don't quite agree Khans is a poor man's cube. I admit I'm in favour of cube right about now doe. Making people salty by playing jackal pups before they can play their six mana bombs = priceless. Unless it's Wurmcoil. Then I'm all

 

[Hero]

Are they allowing on site registration for the GP today?

 

[kirblar]

Are they allowing on site registration for the GP today?

Nope

 

[blindrocket]

I haven't played new standard yet, I've been staying in Modern (UWR).

Could one of you perhaps link me a somewhat budget list for some FNM fun?

All last standard season I could typically top four with Selesnya which never was a top tier deck. Even though it was priced like it was! lol

 

[f0rk]

He doesn't like Knight, which I dunno about. I think it's a pretty sexy card. If I were to pull that for Ooze, I'd pull the Lynxs for Loam Lion, I think.

Helix is obviously a great card and I'd put two of those in for the Gut Shots. I love me some Gut Shots, but I guess they're not wholly relevant in this deck.

The problem with Knight is it often sits around as a huge creature and doesn't do anything, at which point being 1 mana more than goyf is a big issue as it can lead to a big tempo loss. It's still worth trying and I like Hierarch even less.

The main issue with your list is the mana, with 24 lands that don't do anything extra you'll flood out a lot. And the most common reason I lost when playing Zoo. The 4 Canopy with Steppe Lynx idea is really good, otherwise play 22 with 1 Canopy and a Wolf run.

Also lightning helix is much better than Boros charm with all the burn / Delver running around. I'd run the full 4

 

[f0rk]

First streamed game of GPNJ = turn 1 dredge kill

 

[blindrocket]

I haven't played new standard yet, I've been staying in Modern (UWR).

Could one of you perhaps link me a somewhat budget list for some FNM fun?

All last standard season I could typically top four with Selesnya which never was a top tier deck. Even though it was priced like it was! lol

And on second thought, maybe I should spend my money on the new Modern staples instead. I still haven't even bought the new fetches.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

First streamed game of GPNJ = turn 1 dredge kill

Oops All Spells isn't dredge...

 

[f0rk]

Oops All Spells isn't dredge...

...whatever, close enough

Difference in picture quality between the GP Madrid and GPNJ stream is pretty sad

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Also, his opponent seemed really confused by everything happening that turn.

 

[WanderingWind]

The problem with Knight is it often sits around as a huge creature and doesn't do anything, at which point being 1 mana more than goyf is a big issue as it can lead to a big tempo loss. It's still worth trying and I like Hierarch even less.

The main issue with your list is the mana, with 24 lands that don't do anything extra you'll flood out a lot. And the most common reason I lost when playing Zoo. The 4 Canopy with Steppe Lynx idea is really good, otherwise play 22 with 1 Canopy and a Wolf run.

Also lightning helix is much better than Boros charm with all the burn / Delver running around. I'd run the full 4

Yeah, Heirarch doesn't belong in this list, especially with UWR and UR Delver. I'll try Knight and Knightless versions. You're probably right about the mana, as well.

However, with the amount of wipes and burn, Boros Charm is a necessity in these colors and with a swarm strategy like Zoo. I can cut something else, maybe, but I almost want 4 Charms. Helix is obviously great.

 

[kirblar]

Lost round 3 due to matchup inexperience. Domed little merfolk instead of just doming oops face and lost to TNN

 

[G.ZZZ]

Joe playing so smooth, Miracle just crush slower delvers variants.

 

[Crocodile]

So what was the final turnout for GPNJ?

 

[kirblar]

Won round 4 beat ur delver

 

[Firemind]

So what was the final turnout for GPNJ?

3600 something last I heard.

 

[kirblar]

3950ish after drops. 4-1 beat ur delver again in a squeaker.

 

[Firemind]

Choke and Boil are a thing now in Modern haha. rip delver

 

[divisionbyzorro]

3950ish after drops. 4-1 beat ur delver again in a squeaker.

You had two byes, right?

 

[OnPoint]

3950ish after drops. 4-1 beat ur delver again in a squeaker.

Nice! Gaf represent!

 

[kirblar]

You had two byes, right?

Yup

 

[kirblar]

5-1 Beat Dredge. In two games for the first time ever.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

5-1 Beat Dredge. In two games for the first time ever.

Fuckin' rad- Good luck, man!

Man, I really enjoy the SCG streams / coverage of events. I get kick out of all their personalities (Nick Miller is growing on me-ish).. I don't love the "replay" stuff on their recorded videos on Twitch, but I don't mind skipping through when I miss stuff and want to watch what happened.

That said, I do miss Marshall ana LSV, a bunch of the others on the Magic streams, but there's LRCast and CRCast so it's not the biggest deal.

SCG card prices are not my fave thing in the world, though

 

[Matriox]

Nice kirb! Keep that shit up.

 

[kirblar]

6-1 beat UR delver.

 

[Firemind]

One more win!

 

[kirblar]

This event may get top banned.