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[kirblar]

"There sending in their army"?

MaRo's posting on Iphone I believe, he gets a nonzero amount of autocorrect failures.

 

[charlequin]

Nah. It's not Ravager. It's not just "good 2 drops that use other cards" that make it a cycle.

I mean, the only reason people made this up was that they got crabby about Snapcaster Mage. I never heard anyone call it anything but the "broken two-drop cycle" before this thread.

That said, the cycle isn't really real in the first place so I don't really think it needs an artifact either!

That runs into the Lorwyn problem of "Where are all the fights?"

Yeah, you gotta find places where it crosses over with, essentially, the D&D aesthetic. The easiest one is, like, battlefield "musicians" -- red already has Trumpet Blast, so it could certainly expand that category. And if they can print Advisors like Droning Bureaucrats and Traveling Philosopher they could certainly do court jesters or whatever. It would help if they put bards in red where they belong instead of in green for no reason.

I think this is really just one of the blind spots of the creative team, like sea monsters were for the last one. They're not gonna fix it until some new blood comes in and sees an opportunity to tweak stuff.

 

[AMUSIX]

So I've learned how I like Magic, and that's playing EDH. So..hooray for that.

Currently, I'm trying to build two more EDH decks. One is a wolf-pack deck, probably using Omnath as a general (since I couldn't find a suitable wolf-themed general). The other is an Angels & Demons deck. Now, I know the general I'm supposed to use is Kaalia, but I think I'd like to keep the deck BW. Since I really only play with friends, I'm considering making a custom general, but I don't want it to be too overpowered, so here's what I'm thinking:

It would come out as the side depending on which cost you pay. I'd also like to add an ability to each side, but don't want to do the 'Angels get +1/+1 // Demons get -1/-1' thing as it feels a bit bland.

Anyone see this as being just too overpowered? Is the tutor on the demon side too much or so much better than the Angel side that you'd never go angel?

 

[SigmasonicX]

A custom commander? I can't say I've ever heard about that kind of format.

Anyway, as a general heads up, people tend to find flip cards confusing, especially when they're tapped. Also, I imagine people will be really confused about the creature not having flying.

Also, I think the abilities would be better worded as:
Demonic Angel - WWWBB
Legendary Creature - Angel
When Demonic Angel enters the battlefield, you may exile any number of target Demon creatures. If you do, you may put up to that many Angel creature cards from your hand onto the battlefield.
4/5
==
Angelic Demon - WWBBB
Legendary Creature - Demon
When Angelic Demon enters the battlefield, you may sacrifice an Angel creature. If you do, you may search your library for a Demon creature card and put it onto the battlefield.
5/4

It probably isn't too powerful per say, since both abilities require relevant creatures to already be on the battlefield and neither type often comes cheap. However, I also think these abilities will not lead to gameplay nearly as interesting as you probably think they will.

 

[AMUSIX]

Ahh, flying, of course. Somehow in my mind I just figured it was assumed, but you're right.

And, as I said, I pretty much just play with friends, so, yeah, house rules mean custom commanders. Actually, this would be the first one, but I was going to propose we all make a custom commander deck, the only thing is that the theme must be heavy throughout the deck.

OK, I've gone back and updated it with flying. At the same time I scaled the 4 down to a 3.

edit: and added your text. Couldn't remember what the currently used language was for those steps.

 

[rexor0717]

Weird card idea, it would be some kind of equipment for a planeswalker. They're pretty much expanded loyalty abilities for planeswalkers. Do you think the costing on this to make it balanced would probably make it unplayable?
Something like:

Jace's Crystal Ball 2

Planeswalker Artifact- Equipment

Equip to Planeswalker 2 (Equipped planeswalker
gains these abilities as long as this is equipped)

+2 Look at top two cards of your library. Put one
of them on the the bottom of your library.
-3 Target opponent reveals the top 4 cards of their
library. He or she puts any creatures revealed this
way on the bottom of their library.

 

[y2dvd]

I've been running really well in MtG lately.

Went 4-0 in drafts earlier this week. First pack was a foil Wingmate Roc and a regular Flooded Strand. I wanted to get up and leave so bad. I pick the foil Roc and let the player left of me know that he's getting a gift. It made me go into Abzan, but it was mainly W/G splash B. I learn to value lands highly and would just about pick it over everything that wasn't a great removal. It was really aggressive and really punished the morph heavy decks. Is Dragon Boon the G3 untap creature and gives 2 +1/+1 counters on a creature? I ran two in there and it was a blowout every time. Totally underestimated that card in the past.

In standards, I've switched up my R/W midrange deck to Mardu Midrange. I went 4-0 twice within the week. I felt like it fought Abzan, Temur, and G/x decks extremely well and that control, RDW, and Jeskai decks gives me the problems instead.

I gotta say the local players gives too many tells. For instance, in one game I was against a BUG control player. I was on the play and on T3, I have a Crackling Doom in hand and his board only had a Sylvan Caratid. I don't know what it was, but he visibly gave off that he was really dependent on that Caratid, so I decided to Cracking Doom and get it off the table. It held him back several turns from playing a 3cmc card and it was too late by then. I tend to target mana dorks extremely high though.

Geez did I love casting Crackling Doom. I had an Abzan player clear the board and cast a Sorin and minus two it to make a vampire. I CD it and redirect the dmg to Sorin to finish it off. That's a 2f1 to me.

And I don't normally play black. Against an opponent, I had 3 Thoughtseize and a Depise opening hand. It felt bad ripping his hands apart immediately but oh so good lol.

 

[Matriox]

So I've learned how I like Magic, and that's playing EDH. So..hooray for that.

Currently, I'm trying to build two more EDH decks. One is a wolf-pack deck, probably using Omnath as a general (since I couldn't find a suitable wolf-themed general).

Since Omnath isn't super wolf themed, have you considered Tolsimir Wolfblood? He's green and even makes a wolf token. Otherwise I'd look at RG commanders like Radha or Xenagos to get those red and green werewolves (if Werewolves count for your wolf-pack theme ofcourse).

 

["God's Beard!"]

I've been running really well in MtG lately.

Went 4-0 in drafts earlier this week. First pack was a foil Wingmate Roc and a regular Flooded Strand. I wanted to get up and leave so bad. I pick the foil Roc and let the player left of me know that he's getting a gift. It made me go into Abzan, but it was mainly W/G splash B. I learn to value lands highly and would just about pick it over everything that wasn't a great removal. It was really aggressive and really punished the morph heavy decks. Is Dragon Boon the G3 untap creature and gives 2 +1/+1 counters on a creature? I ran two in there and it was a blowout every time. Totally underestimated that card in the past.

In standards, I've switched up my R/W midrange deck to Mardu Midrange. I went 4-0 twice within the week. I felt like it fought Abzan, Temur, and G/x decks extremely well and that control, RDW, and Jeskai decks gives me the problems instead.

I gotta say the local players gives too many tells. For instance, in one game I was against a BUG control player. I was on the play and on T3, I have a Crackling Doom in hand and his board only had a Sylvan Caratid. I don't know what it was, but he visibly gave off that he was really dependent on that Caratid, so I decided to Cracking Doom and get it off the table. It held him back several turns from playing a 3cmc card and it was too late by then. I tend to target mana dorks extremely high though.

Geez did I love casting Crackling Doom. I had an Abzan player clear the board and cast a Sorin and minus two it to make a vampire. I CD it and redirect the dmg to Sorin to finish it off. That's a 2f1 to me.

And I don't normally play black. Against an opponent, I had 3 Thoughtseize and a Depise opening hand. It felt bad ripping his hands apart immediately but oh so good lol.

Crackling Doom is so bad against my Abzan deck. All my creatures have exactly 4 power so I can choose which one dies and Hooting Mandrills is always the one I choose.

Also, I won a game against Abzan Midrange once when the guy played six planeswalkers and I drew 11 goddamn lands straight. Thanks, Hornet Queen!

 

[Matriox]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140161759]Crackling Doom is so bad against my Abzan deck. All my creatures have exactly 4 power so I can choose which one dies and Hooting Mandrills is always the one I choose.

Also, I won a game against Abzan Midrange once when the guy played six planeswalkers and I drew 11 goddamn lands straight. Thanks, Hornet Queen![/QUOTE]

I just love flashing in boon satyrs to save my siege rhinos lol.

 

[AMUSIX]

Since Omnath isn't super wolf themed, have you considered Tolsimir Wolfblood? He's green and even makes a wolf token. Otherwise I'd look at RG commanders like Radha or Xenagos to get those red and green werewolves (if Werewolves count for your wolf-pack theme ofcourse).

I considered going R-G for some of the red wolves and the werewolves. When I went through card options, though, I found I had so many mono-green wolf-related cards that adding in more options would make it difficult to wear things down.


Tolsimir was definitely an option. Thematically, he's probably the best, and I'd probably then go white-enchanted green wolves. The biggest weakness I'm finding is the lack of aerial defenses, and white would certainly help with that. Then again, I've always liked putting together a functional mono-colored deck, and mono-green wolves would definitely be cool. Omnath gives me a version of mana ramping without resorting to elves.

I suppose I could also do wolves & spiders to handle the aerials.

 

[Matriox]

I suppose I could also do wolves & spiders to handle the aerials.

Hurricane those aerials down

 

[WanderingWind]

I'm getting that deck building urge again. I may finally break apart all my tribal EDH decks and make some new ones.

 

[AMUSIX]

Hurricane those aerials down

Hurricane, plummet, a few fun green tools

Also, damn you for making me look at Tolsimir again. Not so much for him, but I started to look for Voja tokens, and now I'm going to end up making one, and that means I'll probably have to use him.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140161759]Crackling Doom is so bad against my Abzan deck. All my creatures have exactly 4 power so I can choose which one dies and Hooting Mandrills is always the one I choose.

Also, I won a game against Abzan Midrange once when the guy played six planeswalkers and I drew 11 goddamn lands straight. Thanks, Hornet Queen![/QUOTE]

How many people do you think are siding out Crackling Doom against you? Yeah, its not "so bad" your Abzan deck.

I guess I'd trust you more if you weren't playing Hooting Mandrills.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Mandrills is a completely reasonable card in a deck that's doing something other than the usual midrange thing. It's more of a Temur card, where you need to create a threat while doing something else at the same time.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Mandrills is a completely reasonable card in a deck that's doing something other than the usual midrange thing. It's more of a Temur card, where you need to create a threat while doing something else at the same time.

I'm mostly just giving him shit per SOP.

Not that "Crackling Doom is bad because you don't get to choose my best dude" is a good argument. Opponent sacrifices typically don't give the caster a say in the matter in the first place.

It's an incredibly good card limited by the decks that can cast it.

 

[red13th]

DAMN shame I went to bed early and missed the semis and finals of this Legacy Open, Bahra (playing DnT!!!!!) vs Joe Lossett, must have been amazing, two outstanding players. Bahra <3

EDIT: Lossett faced Infect and went 2-0 lol

 

[y2dvd]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140161759]Crackling Doom is so bad against my Abzan deck. All my creatures have exactly 4 power so I can choose which one dies and Hooting Mandrills is always the one I choose.

Also, I won a game against Abzan Midrange once when the guy played six planeswalkers and I drew 11 goddamn lands straight. Thanks, Hornet Queen![/QUOTE]

I'm playing more of the control-ish version of Mardu that's more heavily into black, so it runs a few Hero's Downfall on top along with Thoughtseize. Despise also gets sb in. I was usually able to disrupt and go 1 for 1, making sure they had to sac there biggest guy when I casted CD. Let's face it, if you were able to already have two big guys on the field, you were probably in the lead anyways. My deck tries to make sure that never happens.

Speaking of EDH, my roommate's EDH deck is too dominate and usually wins the weekly leagues. I spent over $150 in cards last night to spruce up my Mimeoplasm deck and try to beat his Animar deck. :l

 

[phazedplasma]

You guys think that the jeskai heroic combo is more fun to play than jeskai aggro?

Thinking of running something similar to the deck that won Richmond this tuesday...

 

[Lucario]

Speaking of EDH, my roommate's EDH deck is too dominate and usually wins the weekly leagues. I spent over $150 in cards last night to spruce up my Mimeoplasm deck and try to beat his Animar deck. :l

Is it one of the infinite combo variants?

One of the only ways to beat combo Animar -- aside from playing red removal to take out their commander -- is to play a deck that can just kill the combo player before they go off. Scion of the Ur-Dragon and Rafiq both gave me a ton of trouble when I was playing Wizard tribal Animar.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I guess I'd trust you more if you weren't playing Hooting Mandrills.

Oh, I'm sorry that I play 1-mana 4/4s that protect my Doomwake Giants from Crackling Doom. That attack through Courser and Caryatid and trade with Butchers. That have trample which makes Anafenza cooler. That let me play two solid threats on the same turn which increases the likelihood that I actually get to untap and attack with one against controlling decks.

What it means is that I get to be the player pressuring more often than other Whip decks get to be. It means that instead of playing Mediocre cards that don't progress my strategy like Courser and Caryatid I get to actually have a board presence before turn 8.

Do you know how many games I won at SCG Oakland because I played Thoughtseizes and Satyr Wayfinders into Hooting Mandrills? A lot more than I would have by letting my opponent have an extra three turns while I get my reanimator strategy going. I won every game where I stuck 8 power on the board in one turn by turn 5.

I don't get it, people talk shit about my Hooting Mandrills all the time after they lose to them. It's like being a common makes them automatically bad or something.

 

[OnPoint]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140193985]Oh, I'm sorry that I play 1-mana 4/4s that protect my Doomwake Giants from Crackling Doom. That attack through Courser and Caryatid and trade with Butchers. That have trample which makes Anafenza cooler. That let me play two solid threats on the same turn which increases the likelihood that I actually get to untap and attack with one against controlling decks.

What it means is that I get to be the player pressuring more often than other Whip decks get to be. It means that instead of playing Mediocre cards that don't progress my strategy like Courser and Caryatid I get to actually have a board presence before turn 8.

Do you know how many games I won at SCG Oakland because I played Thoughtseizes and Satyr Wayfinders into Hooting Mandrills? A lot more than I would have by letting my opponent have an extra three turns while I get my reanimator strategy going. I won every game where I stuck 8 power on the board in one turn by turn 5.

I don't get it, people talk shit about my Hooting Mandrills all the time after they lose to them. It's like being a common makes them automatically bad or something.[/QUOTE]

I think they seem awesome and people will eventually come around. If I were playing Standard I'd absolutely consider a build that maximized their use.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I think they seem awesome and people will eventually come around. If I were playing Standard I'd absolutely consider a build that maximized their use.

They also trigger Ferocious if you wanna build a deck with See the Unwritten! They don't die to Lightning Strike and Anger of the Gods!

 

[kirblar]

What's your current list looking like?

 

["God's Beard!"]

.

 

[Kerrinck]

Any online stores with decent black friday deals?
Can't remember seeing any in the past few years but I could be wrong.

 

[y2dvd]

I would love to play test against it. If only I wasn't so lazy to play online lol. It's still too early to underestimate any deck imo.

My version Mardu off the top of my head:

Creatures (15)
3x Seeker of the Way
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Brimaz
3x Butcher of the Horde
1x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Wingmate Roc

Planeswalkers (6)
1x Chandra
1x Sorin
2x Sarkhan
2x Elspeth

Spells (14)
3x Thoughtseize
1x Lightning Strike
2x Bile Blight
2x Magma Jet
2x Hero's Downfall
4x Cracking Doom

Lands (25)
1x Plains
2x Mountains
2x Swamps
2x Caves
3x Battleforge
4x Nomad Outpost
4x Temple of Silence
3x Temple of Triumph
3x Temple of Malic
1x Urborg

Sideboard (15)
2x Depise
2x Erase
2x Magma Spray
2x Glare Heresy
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Utter End
1x Chandra
1x End Hostility
1x Hushwing Gryff

It doesn't go the Hordeling Outburst route, so I only run 1 Sorin. I also removed Chain to the Rocks since I'm not running any fetches. Usually a great removal, but it feels bad when someone Utter Ends or Rec Sage it after chaining a Siege Rhino. I rather just try to hard remove SR or whatever else now. Bile Blight have been overperforming, clearing tokens or allowing me to attack or block into Coursers or Siege Rhinos with my Seeker. I'm running more scry lands to help fix my draws. It's a reason why I can see aggro or control decks being a problem, but hopefully I draw my cheap kill spells game 1 and then there's a lot of hate coming in from the sb.

My biggest debate are the 5 drops. I have 1 Wingmate Roc, 1 Stormbreath, and 2 Sarkhan. I like them all so I'll keep them all in, but I may switch up the count. Then I feel I can remove the Chandra in the sb for another End Hostility or Hushwing Gryff or add in a Read the Bones.

Thoughts?

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140193985]Oh, I'm sorry that I play 1-mana 4/4s that protect my Doomwake Giants from Crackling Doom. That attack through Courser and Caryatid and trade with Butchers. That have trample which makes Anafenza cooler. That let me play two solid threats on the same turn which increases the likelihood that I actually get to untap and attack with one against controlling decks.

What it means is that I get to be the player pressuring more often than other Whip decks get to be. It means that instead of playing Mediocre cards that don't progress my strategy like Courser and Caryatid I get to actually have a board presence before turn 8.

Do you know how many games I won at SCG Oakland because I played Thoughtseizes and Satyr Wayfinders into Hooting Mandrills? A lot more than I would have by letting my opponent have an extra three turns while I get my reanimator strategy going. I won every game where I stuck 8 power on the board in one turn by turn 5.

I don't get it, people talk shit about my Hooting Mandrills all the time after they lose to them. It's like being a common makes them automatically bad or something.[/QUOTE]

Unless you are in a very weird meta, I'm not sure why you care what Whip decks are doing. You can always surprise someone with a rogue deck, but I don't think Abzan Reanimator decks are very well positioned against the existing meta at all.

 

[WanderingWind]

$#@%&

Tonight is not my night gents. 1-3 and ffffffuuuuuuck it. Fuck Esper. Fuck never ever pulling two white sources with 12 available and fuck the police.

 

[OnPoint]

From the Maro tumblr:

queeractivist asked: Follow up: A planeswalker with morph wouldn't work with the current rules. 209.1. Each planeswalker....enters the battlefield with [a loyalty number] of counters on it; 121.1b A planeswalker with 0 loyalty is put into its owner’s graveyard as a State Based Action; 702.36d Any abilities relating to the permanent entering the battlefield don’t trigger [with morph cost paid]. Ergo, you would morph it and send it to the graveyard.

Maro: FYI

This upsets me because it would be easy for design to write on the card:

When you Unmorph Visara the Hidden, put 4 loyalty counters on it​

Right?

 

[Angry Grimace]

From the Maro tumblr:



This upsets me because it would be easy for design to write on the card:

When you Unmorph Visara the Hidden, put 4 loyalty counters on it​

Right?

It would be physically difficult, in fact, unless the PW had less than 3 abilities. Part of the reason the PW design space never gets into static text is that its difficult to fit more text without making the entire card text the way Garruk, Jace and the Commanders are, particularly if its text of any real importance. You could fit the Ghostfire text on Ugin or something, but beyond that, it would be hard to physically fit very many interesting quirks.

 

[ultron87]

Even with that line it causes a ton of weird rules stuff to happen that wouldn't be particularly logical. The worst one being "Shock your morph." "Okay, I flip it into a Planeswalker." *Shock fizzles*

 

[Angry Grimace]

Even with that line it causes a ton of weird rules stuff to happen that wouldn't be particularly logical. The worst one being "Shock your morph." "Okay, I flip it into a Planeswalker." *Shock fizzles*

In fairness, that happens to Zoetic Cavern.

As an aside, its weird that neither Shock nor Doom Blade are Standard-legal right now.

 

[ultron87]

Yeah, but Shock doesn't usually interact with lands. It can hit Planeswalkers, it just misses in this situation because rules.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah, but Shock doesn't usually interact with lands. It can hit Planeswalkers, it just misses in this situation because rules.

Actually, Shock cannot hit Planeswalkers. I presume you understand why, but I think that distinction is why its not really a rules problem - its just a misconception that Shock can target a Planeswalker.

 

[OnPoint]

Even with that line it causes a ton of weird rules stuff to happen that wouldn't be particularly logical. The worst one being "Shock your morph." "Okay, I flip it into a Planeswalker." *Shock fizzles*

Is that any different than morphs that counter or redirect spells? I don't know if I see a problem with it honestly. But they have been shying away from "Gotcha!" morphs.

Also, they can just extend the text box like they did on Jace and fit more on it. It's a PW so it shouldn't need to explain morph on it.

Visara the Hidden 4BG
Planeswalker - Visara
Morph 2BG
When Visara the Hidden is unmorphed, add 4 loyalty counters
+2: Destroy target non-black creature
-2: Target opponent gains 1 poison counter
-7: Double all counters in play. Then double them again
3​

That would all fit on a Jace-sized text box for a PW.

 

[ultron87]

Actually, Shock cannot hit Planeswalkers. I presume you understand why, but I think that distinction is why its not really a rules problem - its just a misconception that Shock can target a Planeswalker.

It does for the vast majority of purposes. "Shock your Jace" is a legitimate thing to say. So it'd be weird from a mechanics perspective to point a spell that could damage a thing at the thing, only to have it turn into something else that the spell could still damage, but it misses in this case because you didn't target it at the player. The flavor of morph is that it's still supposed to be the same thing in the same place but now it is revealed, but suddenly your bolt is missing for some reason.

Unless it was Fated Conflagration, in which case you're good.

Is that any different than morphs that counter or redirect spells? I don't know if I see a problem with it honestly. But they have been shying away from "Gotcha!" morphs.

I think it is different because those morphs are specifically supposed to counter the spell, while a creature -> Planeswalker morph just causes this stuff to happen due to the type changing. I think specifically going from a creature to a PW just causes a lot of weird situations where things will start interacting in ways that don't follow. Like if you block with it, and then unmorph it, it gets out of combat even though we've had PWers that can be in combat. Or if you attack, hit your opponent with it, unmorph it into a tapped Planeswalker and can still use an ability this turn even though it already "did something" this turn. Or if it gets damage marked on it it can unmorph into a PWer, with damage, that hasn't lost counters.

I just don't think that kind of weirdness is worth the novelty of a Planeswalker with morph.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Unless you are in a very weird meta, I'm not sure why you care what Whip decks are doing. You can always surprise someone with a rogue deck, but I don't think Abzan Reanimator decks are very well positioned against the existing meta at all.

Why not? My deck matches up pretty well against the removal in the format, I'm not as slow as some of the other Abzan decks and I get to reuse the best creatures in the format.

Delve is busted and I want to abuse the Delve cards as much as I can. If there was another 2-mana enabler I'd run 12 and go nuts with a 4-color deck.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It does for the vast majority of purposes. "Shock your Jace" is a legitimate thing to say. So it'd be weird from a mechanics perspective to point a spell that could damage a thing at the thing, only to have it turn into something else that the spell could still damage, but it misses in this case because you didn't target it at the player. The flavor of morph is that it's still supposed to be the same thing in the same place but now it is revealed, but suddenly your bolt is missing for some reason.

Unless it was Fated Conflagration, in which case you're good.



I think it is different because those morphs are specifically supposed to counter the spell, while a creature -> Planeswalker morph just causes this stuff to happen due to the type changing. I think specifically going from a creature to a PW just causes a lot of weird situations where things will start interacting in ways that don't follow. Like if you block with it, and then unmorph it, it gets out of combat even though we've had PWers that can be in combat. Or if you attack, hit your opponent with it, unmorph it into a tapped Planeswalker and can still use an ability this turn even though it already "did something" this turn. Or if it gets damage marked on it it can unmorph into a PWer, with damage, that hasn't lost counters.

I just don't think that kind of weirdness is worth the novelty of a Planeswalker with morph.

"Shock your Jace" is in fact not a legitimate thing to say. Its acceptable because I know what you're saying (for the record, its a bad habit to Shock a PW directly because you are giving out information to your opponent in advance), but the rules do not allow you to Shock Jace, period. This is why I think the alleged rules issue is moot - the misconception in the rules is that you can Shock Jace when you cannot Shock Jace under any circumstances as a legal play.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140231146]Why not? My deck matches up pretty well against the removal in the format, I'm not as slow as some of the other Abzan decks and I get to reuse the best creatures in the format.

Delve is busted and I want to abuse the Delve cards as much as I can. If there was another 2-mana enabler I'd run 12 and go nuts with a 4-color deck.[/QUOTE]

Reanimation in Standard is not fast enough or supported well enough to beat the top decks, in my opinion. Sure, you get Whip out and nobody does anything about it and you can win. But Whip costs 4 to cast, 4 to activate and doesn't necessarily win all by itself. Every time I've ever played that deck I just side in more hate towards the Whip itself and the opponent gets sad.

 

[ultron87]

"Shock your Jace" is in fact not a legitimate thing to say. Its acceptable because I know what you're saying (for the record, its a bad habit to Shock a PW directly because you are giving out information to your opponent in advance), but the rules do not allow you to Shock Jace, period. This is why I think the alleged rules issue is moot - the misconception in the rules is that you can Shock Jace when you cannot Shock Jace under any circumstances as a legal play.

It is an officially established shortcut in the tournament rules. It is as legitimate as saying "your turn" during your first main phase to pass priority to the end step.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I win plenty of games without ever resolving a whip. Like I said before, more games are decided by me using delve to put 8 power out on turn 4 or 5 than reusing a bunch of seige rhino triggers or whatever. Hell, I hard cast the queen more often than I whip it back. Its not like the deck is all that reliant on it, its just a source of inevitability.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It is an officially established shortcut in the tournament rules. It is as legitimate as saying "your turn" during your first main phase to pass priority to the end step.

It is a shortcut to a different play, not a specific play.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140235436]I win plenty of games without ever resolving a whip. Like I said before, more games are decided by me using delve to put 8 power out on turn 4 or 5 than reusing a bunch of seige rhino triggers or whatever. Hell, I hard cast the queen more often than I whip it back. Its not like the deck is all that reliant on it, its just a source of inevitability.[/QUOTE]

Sure, jam 4 Siege Rhinos in anything and you CAN win.

 

[ThLunarian]

From the Maro tumblr:



This upsets me because it would be easy for design to write on the card:

When you Unmorph Visara the Hidden, put 4 loyalty counters on it​

Right?

That specific wording that you suggested wouldn't work, BUT it's really strange that Maro posted that, considering Hooded Hydra already exists, and contains the exact templating that would be required to make a morphed Planeswalker work.

Textbox space could be an issue, sure, but the problem that Maro presented has already been solved by a card that just got printed.

 

[Firemind]

Okay this is actually kind of insane when you consider what I had to leave in my sideboard. Maybe I should have played 15 lands + mox?

 

["God's Beard!"]

So what are the top decks then? I can't remember the last time I lost to Jekai in a tournament, abzan Mid is a weaker version of my deck in the mirror and I built my deck to specifically match up well with Mardu since that's the matchup I play the most. Mono red is miserable but I don't know that It's a top deck.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140241517]So what are the top decks then? I can't remember the last time I lost to Jekai in a tournament, abzan Mid is a weaker version of my deck in the mirror and I built my deck to specifically match up well with Mardu since that's the matchup I play the most. Mono red is miserable but I don't know that It's a top deck.[/QUOTE]

Variants of the same decks that have been around since week 2, e.g. the Pro Tour?

If you think your deck should be winning all these events, I mean, go do it instead of just saying why every good deck bricks super hard to your homebrew, which is what you are doing now and were doing before the pro tour and all of the subsequent events even happened. The biggest problem I'm having is that you just keep consistently taking the tack that some card or deck bricks to your deck when there's no real reason to believe that. Crackling Doom killing your Mandrills vs. Siege Rhino isn't even a good argument. Its actually massive resource disadvantage since you lose a 4/4 and all of the resources you had to delve to put Mandrills in play and having Siege Rhino and Mandrills up at the same time without being removed probably means you're already winning.

I see no reason why you would ever expect to beat Abzan Midrange, Mardu Control, Mardu Midrange or Jeskai on a consistent basis beyond variance.

 

[ThLunarian]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140241517]So what are the top decks then? I can't remember the last time I lost to Jekai in a tournament, abzan Mid is a weaker version of my deck in the mirror and I built my deck to specifically match up well with Mardu since that's the matchup I play the most. Mono red is miserable but I don't know that It's a top deck.[/QUOTE]

I've only been keeping up with coverage and haven't been playing Standard myself, but I get the sense that the metagame is still in flux, and that the only truly consistent performers among all the big tournaments have been Siege Rhino decks. Otherwise, anything can happen.

Edit: Looks like the thing i was replying to was actually part of a different discussion, oops

 

[phazedplasma]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140241517]So what are the top decks then? I can't remember the last time I lost to Jekai in a tournament, abzan Mid is a weaker version of my deck in the mirror and I built my deck to specifically match up well with Mardu since that's the matchup I play the most. Mono red is miserable but I don't know that It's a top deck.[/QUOTE]

jeskai aggro, GB constellation, azban something, esper control ??? The heroic and token jeskai combo variants have swept tourneys as well.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I've only been keeping up with coverage and haven't been playing Standard myself, but I get the sense that the metagame is still in flux, and that the only truly consistent performers among all the big tournaments have been Siege Rhino decks. Otherwise, anything can happen.

Edit: Looks like the thing i was replying to was actually part of a different discussion, oops

Esper Control is such a miserable matchup to play against I'm thinking of playing it. I just don't have Ashiok.