• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Miracles is like, everything I hate in a deck. Slow, durdling and too many damn steps. The more I playtest with it, the more Zoo just speaks to my soul. Well, at least in Modern. Legacy...I mean, I don't know what I'll play when DTT and TC get ban hammered into oblivion, but it'll likely be as close to a Zoo deck as I can feasible get.

Is Legacy Zoo a real thing? I'll take Tier 2, even.
 
K

kirblar

Member
WanderingWind said:
Miracles is like, everything I hate in a deck. Slow, durdling and too many damn steps. The more I playtest with it, the more Zoo just speaks to my soul. Well, at least in Modern. Legacy...I mean, I don't know what I'll play when DTT and TC get ban hammered into oblivion, but it'll likely be as close to a Zoo deck as I can feasible get.

Is Legacy Zoo a real thing? I'll take Tier 2, even.
Click to expand...
Nah, doesn't hold up to the plethora of removal. Just play a blue deck.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Thanks, GB. I think I have about 18 of those. Ha.

Alright, so Zoo. Here are the cards currently being played, depending on the list. Let's look at the colors and see what is not necessary.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

4x Wild Nacatl
4x Goblin Guide
4x Scavenging Ooze
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Quasli Pridemage
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Kird Ape
4x Knight of the Reliquary

4x Lighting Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Swords to Plowshare
4x Lighting Helix
3x Price of Progress
2x Fireblast

SB Cards
Choke
Red Elemental Blast
Ancient Grudge
Gaddock Teeg
Relic of Progenitus
Rest in Peace
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

So, looking at it, you can't cut red, so it feels like Guide and Ape would be pretty strong creatures to use. But then again, you want to be able to keep red open for Bolt and Chain, so maybe cutting the red creatures would be correct. Knight is a fun card, but I think it's stronger in Modern, with the less removal. That's really the only card you may get zero value of if it's destroyed. They bolt/swords a one drop, you feel like you're doing okay. So, Knight is out.

I like Fireblast, but I think it's too cutesy. Plus, with Daze and FoW, I just doubt it'll ever not suck for you to cast it.

What if cut the red only sources and go with R/U lands? Would that free up room for say, TC? That's dangerously close to magic Christmas land. If I cut white, I lose Swords, Helix, Lynx, Pridemage and it makes Nacatl suck.
 
S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
Am I alone in my defense of Land Destruction? :(

I feel like I have fairly good intuition as a working game designer and yet I'm potentially (hopefully) off-base with my evaluation of the mechanic in Magic. Ever since I started playing, I came to realize / see that the game had a lot to offer as a teaching tool... And now I'm just whining in the thread?

lol, how did it come to this!?
 
F

Firemind

Member
WanderingWind said:
Legacy...I mean, I don't know what I'll play when DTT and TC get ban hammered into oblivion, but it'll likely be as close to a Zoo deck as I can feasible get.

Is Legacy Zoo a real thing? I'll take Tier 2, even.
Click to expand...
Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise won't get banned in legacy. Zoo is a deck. I played against it once but it couldn't even win against my durdly JTMS deck so not sure what chances it has against proper control and various combo decks.

shrapnelmagnet said:
Am I alone in my defense of Land Destruction? :(

I feel like I have fairly good intuition as a working game designer and yet I'm potentially (hopefully) off-base with my evaluation of the mechanic in Magic. Ever since I started playing, I came to realize / see that the game had a lot to offer as a teaching tool... And now I'm just whining in the thread?

lol, how did it come to this!?
Click to expand...
Anecdotal evidence, but people rarely whine when I play land destruction in cube. Maybe it's to be expected in that format and prizes are on the line so they won't concede immediately. The only times they whine is when MTGO screws them over.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
Major bad beats. I manage to convince my wife that she should take our daughter over to her grandmother's for lunch. I open up MTGO to go draft. Down for scheduled maintenance for the next three hours. *sad trombone*
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
divisionbyzorro said:
Major bad beats. I manage to convince my wife that she should take our daughter over to her grandmother's for lunch. I open up MTGO to go draft. Down for scheduled maintenance for the next three hours. *sad trombone*
Click to expand...

Draft alone in the dark with the curtains drawn
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I just don't get why players play Gitaxian Probe in Vintage. Its not very good in that format. It basically doesn't do anything and getting a "free card" is not very interesting when you don't know what the card that's replacing Probe is.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Bought a Playset of WPN Signal Pests today, as I continue to pimp out my Modern Affinity Deck. Running out of stuff with legit cool printings (I have Antiquities Ornithopters, WPN Vault Skirges, Game Day Memnites) so I guess I'm going to be heading to Foreign cards soon.
 
M

Matriox

Member
Angry Grimace said:
I just don't get why players play Gitaxian Probe in Vintage. Its not very good in that format. It basically doesn't do anything and getting a "free card" is not very interesting when you don't know what the card that's replacing Probe is.
Click to expand...

Its information that replaces itself, doesn't cost mana, and makes your deck slightly more consistant by being a 56 card deck technically rather than a 60 card one would be my guess. I'm kind of oblivious to vintage and how it works so I could be wrong.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Angry Grimace said:
I just don't get why players play Gitaxian Probe in Vintage. Its not very good in that format. It basically doesn't do anything and getting a "free card" is not very interesting when you don't know what the card that's replacing Probe is.
Click to expand...
The information value is insane. Probably should not have been printed. Recent quote from me to a friend: "Yeah, Cabal Therapy is a bad Gitaxian Probe."
 
G

G.ZZZ

Member
Matriox said:
Its information that replaces itself, doesn't cost mana, and makes your deck slightly more consistant by being a 56 card deck technically rather than a 60 card one would be my guess. I'm kind of oblivious to vintage and how it works so I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

The information's part is what's crucial, having a virtual 56 cards deck is actually worse because it give you less information when you have to mull.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
kirblar said:
The information value is insane. Probably should not have been printed. Recent quote from me to a friend: "Yeah, Cabal Therapy is a bad Gitaxian Probe."
Click to expand...

Maybe in Legacy. Winning in Vintage is usually about your mulligan decisions and Probe makes it significantly harder to determine whether to mulligan because Probe's replacement of itself is just some card that you don't know what it is.

I just played a guy who ran his Legacy deck in Vintage and he lost on Turn 3 both games by a score of 18 to -56 and then 18 to -19. Yeah, Vintage and Legacy aren't the same thing.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
An even lower to the ground, streamlined version of my bogles ^_^

Rainbow Bogles

Creature (12):
  • 4x Gladecover Scout
  • 4x Invisible Stalker
  • 4x Slippery Bogle

Enchantment (24):
  • 4x Daybreak Coronet
  • 4x Ethereal Armor
  • 2x Hyena Umbra
  • 4x Madcap Skills
  • 4x Rancor
  • 4x Spider Umbra
  • 1x Spirit Link
  • 1x Keen Sense

Spells(6):
  • 2x Boros Charm
  • 4x Path to Exile

Land (18)
  • 2x City of Brass
  • 4x Gemstone Mine
  • 4x Horizon Canopy
  • 4x Mana Confluence
  • 4x Razorverge Thicket

Sideboard (15)
  • 1x Grafdigger's Cage
  • 4x Inquisition of Kozilek
  • 4x Leyline of Sanctity
  • 2x Flamespeaker's Will
  • 2x Mortal Obstinacy
  • 2x Suppression Field

I now have exactly double the 1-mana spells in the mainboard as two-mana spells ^_^

I went from a 3/3 split to 2/4 for Hyena/Spider Umbra because blocking with Daybreak Coronet is so good against Delver and Affinity, and I already have a ton of ways to generate first strike. I added a couple enchantment and artifact hate auras over Stony Silence because it lowers my curve while staying proactive which is really nice. Finally, I cut one land for a Keen Sense because I have the lowest average converted mana cost of just about any Bogle deck out there(1.33 whoo) and drawing cards is good.
 
T

ThLunarian

Member
I wonder just how virtually-small you can make a deck, such that you could almost ensure to have a combo + Force of Will backup every game.

I guess you'd start with 4x Street Wraith and 4x Gitaxian Probe, and maybe 4x Serum Powder? All the other 0 mana cantrips I know of make you delay a turn.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
Just had yet another 2-1 cube finish, this time with UW midrange. This time the one loss was true variance; in my game three against the Upheaval deck, I literally didn't draw a spell until after he resolved Upheaval on turn one million. I did manage to beat both Upheaval and Shackles in game two of that match though - that was pretty epic.

Cloudgoat Ranger does not get enough respect. That card is a beating.
 
S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
Wow, I'm sure these threads have talked about it in the past, but I just recently watched the Return to Ravnica 'Box Mapping' videos... So insane, lol.

If you haven't seen them:
Pretty nuts. Makes me think of people that immediately decipher data to find hidden / cut content or whatever in a video game. I thought I remember reading something about serial numbers or something on boxes / boosters in earlier sets that made them less likely to have 'money cards'.

Anyway, just sorta blew my mind when I was watching these just now :)
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
That's why you never buy packs online unless you're buying a sealed box. RTR was spectacularly bad, but I don't think they got their act together with mapping until Theros.
 
S

Shadownet

Banned
Hey GAF help me quick. Which Fat Pack should I buy? Born of the Gods for $30, GateCrash for $30 or Khan of Takir for $25 or Into the Nyx for $30?

Which expansion has the better cards? a friend of mine recommended GateCrash cause it has more multicolored cards
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Shadownet said:
Hey GAF help me quick. Which Fat Pack should I buy? Born of the Gods for $30, GateCrash for $30 or Khan of Takir for $30 or Into the Nyx for $30?

Which expansion has the better cards? a friend of mine recommended GateCrash cause it has more multicolored cards
Click to expand...

Khans by far. Gatecrash may be the worst of the bunch. Khans is more fun to play and has more possibility of pulling a money rare.
 
S

Shadownet

Banned
WanderingWind said:
Khans by far. Gatecrash may be the worst of the bunch. Khans is more fun to play and has more possibility of pulling a money rare.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I went with Khans before I saw this advice. Glad I subconsciously made the right decision. Saved $5 and pick up 2 more booster pack for Born of the Gods.

My best friend just introduced me to Magic. I'll be visiting this thread from now on :)

Miniaturemarket.com have some really great deals on MTG right now if you guys are looking.

I bought the Core 2013 Booster Box for $68.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
tumblr_nfpll23d1m1qjqvxao1_500.jpg
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I have to agree about White Weenies in Legacy Cube. Even going half-half W/R its just a lot of business, not a lot of land.

Unfortunately I was about to fall asleep and just dropped so I could get to bed at a reasonable hour.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
How would you guys feel if Modern had a Restricted List like Vintage? Modern is fucking boring, so some spicy one-ofs could make the format a lot more interesting:


  • Sensei's Divining Top
  • Green Sun's Zenith
  • Ponder
  • Preordain
  • Gitaxian Probe
  • Treasure Cruise
  • Dig Through Time
  • Ancestral Visions
  • Serum Visions
  • Deathrite Shaman
  • Mental Misstep


My picks for the ban list:

  • Blood Moon

Fuck blood moon.
 
H

Hero

Member
Restricting cards to one of's creates too much of a "Oh he/she only won because they drew their Top before I did."

Shit's dumb and leaves too much to variance. At least in vintage you have crazy amounts of card drawing and other broken shit to make up for it. It would not have any positive desirable effect for Modern.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
Hero said:
Restricting cards to one of's creates too much of a "Oh he/she only won because they drew their Top before I did."

Shit's dumb and leaves too much to variance. At least in vintage you have crazy amounts of card drawing and other broken shit to make up for it. It would not have any positive desirable effect for Modern.
Click to expand...

Vintage also has a lot of redundant effects and tutors to where consistency isn't as affected as it would be in Modern if there was a restricted list.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
Yet another 2-1 in Cube. I'm consistent, anyway. This time the one loss came to a mono-red deck. Game one I had pieced together the combo in terms of cards, but couldn't draw the fifth land to make it happen in time. Game two I flooded like a bawss. Match two and three were a cakewalk.

osgUQSg.png


Somehow I didn't realize how insane Imperial Recruiter was for this deck until I actually drew it. Recruiter gets both halves of the combo if you're undisrupted. *kreygasm*

The only real bummer was that my round three opponent conceded before I got to take extra turns with Ral Zarek. :p

EDIT: My limited rating has jumped up by over 50 points since I've stopped playing Khans and started playing Cube. At this rate, I'll be back to the rating I had during Theros block before Cube is gone. Khans and I really don't get along :(.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140759854]How would you guys feel if Modern had a Restricted List like Vintage? [/QUOTE]

Restriction sucks. It significantly raises variance and leads down a slippery slope where you have to start cracking down on tutors for it to even have a real effect. It works in Vintage because the whole point of Vintage is to play the most powerful cards, the format is okay with turn-one wins, and there are so many different broken restricted cards that building around them doesn't actually lead to a stagnant format. It wouldn't work well in a newer, lower-powered format.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Eternal Strands - Official Reveal Trailer
Trailer
39
3K
March Climber replied
Magical Delicacy - Release Date Trailer | Launches July 16 on Xbox, PC, Switch and Game Pass
News Trailer
0
435
Thick Thighs Save Lives replied
  • Locked
Coming to Game Pass: Kunitsu-Gami: Path of the Goddess, Flintlock: The Siege of Dawn, Flock, Magical Delicacy and Dungeons of Hinterberg
12
808
Topher replied
Final Fantasy XIV The Tabletop RPG is out.
4
2K
Zephyranthes replied
Steam Adds Helpfulness System to User Reviews
16
848
YCoCg replied
Top Bottom