"God's Beard!"
Member
Thanks for the advice, but I'm actually having more fun this way learning.
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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Miracles is like, everything I hate in a deck. Slow, durdling and too many damn steps. The more I playtest with it, the more Zoo just speaks to my soul. Well, at least in Modern. Legacy...I mean, I don't know what I'll play when DTT and TC get ban hammered into oblivion, but it'll likely be as close to a Zoo deck as I can feasible get.
Is Legacy Zoo a real thing? I'll take Tier 2, even.
Is Legacy Zoo a real thing? I'll take Tier 2, even.
Nah, doesn't hold up to the plethora of removal. Just play a blue deck.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Why not play Infect?
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh. Wait. RGU (Temur? Fuck if I can remember) Zoo with DTT for removal. Oh man, BRB gonna get my Woo on.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I've got a couple extra copies of Become Immense I can let go for the right deal.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Thanks, GB. I think I have about 18 of those. Ha.
Alright, so Zoo. Here are the cards currently being played, depending on the list. Let's look at the colors and see what is not necessary.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Goblin Guide
4x Scavenging Ooze
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Quasli Pridemage
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Kird Ape
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Lighting Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Swords to Plowshare
4x Lighting Helix
3x Price of Progress
2x Fireblast
SB Cards
Choke
Red Elemental Blast
Ancient Grudge
Gaddock Teeg
Relic of Progenitus
Rest in Peace
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, looking at it, you can't cut red, so it feels like Guide and Ape would be pretty strong creatures to use. But then again, you want to be able to keep red open for Bolt and Chain, so maybe cutting the red creatures would be correct. Knight is a fun card, but I think it's stronger in Modern, with the less removal. That's really the only card you may get zero value of if it's destroyed. They bolt/swords a one drop, you feel like you're doing okay. So, Knight is out.
I like Fireblast, but I think it's too cutesy. Plus, with Daze and FoW, I just doubt it'll ever not suck for you to cast it.
What if cut the red only sources and go with R/U lands? Would that free up room for say, TC? That's dangerously close to magic Christmas land. If I cut white, I lose Swords, Helix, Lynx, Pridemage and it makes Nacatl suck.
Alright, so Zoo. Here are the cards currently being played, depending on the list. Let's look at the colors and see what is not necessary.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Goblin Guide
4x Scavenging Ooze
4x Steppe Lynx
4x Quasli Pridemage
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Kird Ape
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Lighting Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
4x Swords to Plowshare
4x Lighting Helix
3x Price of Progress
2x Fireblast
SB Cards
Choke
Red Elemental Blast
Ancient Grudge
Gaddock Teeg
Relic of Progenitus
Rest in Peace
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
So, looking at it, you can't cut red, so it feels like Guide and Ape would be pretty strong creatures to use. But then again, you want to be able to keep red open for Bolt and Chain, so maybe cutting the red creatures would be correct. Knight is a fun card, but I think it's stronger in Modern, with the less removal. That's really the only card you may get zero value of if it's destroyed. They bolt/swords a one drop, you feel like you're doing okay. So, Knight is out.
I like Fireblast, but I think it's too cutesy. Plus, with Daze and FoW, I just doubt it'll ever not suck for you to cast it.
What if cut the red only sources and go with R/U lands? Would that free up room for say, TC? That's dangerously close to magic Christmas land. If I cut white, I lose Swords, Helix, Lynx, Pridemage and it makes Nacatl suck.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
Am I alone in my defense of Land Destruction? 
I feel like I have fairly good intuition as a working game designer and yet I'm potentially (hopefully) off-base with my evaluation of the mechanic in Magic. Ever since I started playing, I came to realize / see that the game had a lot to offer as a teaching tool... And now I'm just whining in the thread?
lol, how did it come to this!?
I feel like I have fairly good intuition as a working game designer and yet I'm potentially (hopefully) off-base with my evaluation of the mechanic in Magic. Ever since I started playing, I came to realize / see that the game had a lot to offer as a teaching tool... And now I'm just whining in the thread?
lol, how did it come to this!?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That legacy deck isn't blue it can't be any good
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
That's the point. It's not a deck, anyway. It's a list. The thought exercise is to see how squeeze at least TC in there.
Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise won't get banned in legacy. Zoo is a deck. I played against it once but it couldn't even win against my durdly JTMS deck so not sure what chances it has against proper control and various combo decks.
Anecdotal evidence, but people rarely whine when I play land destruction in cube. Maybe it's to be expected in that format and prizes are on the line so they won't concede immediately. The only times they whine is when MTGO screws them over.Am I alone in my defense of Land Destruction?
I feel like I have fairly good intuition as a working game designer and yet I'm potentially (hopefully) off-base with my evaluation of the mechanic in Magic. Ever since I started playing, I came to realize / see that the game had a lot to offer as a teaching tool... And now I'm just whining in the thread?
lol, how did it come to this!?
I'm just imagining Toothless sitting at a computer with a pair of glasses on, intently focused.
In any case, good work.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Major bad beats. I manage to convince my wife that she should take our daughter over to her grandmother's for lunch. I open up MTGO to go draft. Down for scheduled maintenance for the next three hours. *sad trombone*
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Draft alone in the dark with the curtains drawn
shrapnelmagnet
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140362162]Sounds like a good afternoon.
By the way, anybody else play this Judge Tower game?
It's super fun. I keep getting wrecked by the guys at my shop that play it all the time.[/QUOTE]
This is awesome, lol.
By the way, anybody else play this Judge Tower game?
It's super fun. I keep getting wrecked by the guys at my shop that play it all the time.[/QUOTE]
This is awesome, lol.
Hah, thanks.I'm just imagining Toothless sitting at a computer with a pair of glasses on, intently focused.
In any case, good work.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I just don't get why players play Gitaxian Probe in Vintage. Its not very good in that format. It basically doesn't do anything and getting a "free card" is not very interesting when you don't know what the card that's replacing Probe is.
Its information that replaces itself, doesn't cost mana, and makes your deck slightly more consistant by being a 56 card deck technically rather than a 60 card one would be my guess. I'm kind of oblivious to vintage and how it works so I could be wrong.
The information value is insane. Probably should not have been printed. Recent quote from me to a friend: "Yeah, Cabal Therapy is a bad Gitaxian Probe."
The information's part is what's crucial, having a virtual 56 cards deck is actually worse because it give you less information when you have to mull.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Maybe in Legacy. Winning in Vintage is usually about your mulligan decisions and Probe makes it significantly harder to determine whether to mulligan because Probe's replacement of itself is just some card that you don't know what it is.
I just played a guy who ran his Legacy deck in Vintage and he lost on Turn 3 both games by a score of 18 to -56 and then 18 to -19. Yeah, Vintage and Legacy aren't the same thing.
That makes sense, anything outside of EDH and Standard are just lost on me.
"God's Beard!"
Member
An even lower to the ground, streamlined version of my bogles ^_^
Rainbow Bogles
Creature (12):
Enchantment (24):
Spells(6):
Land (18)
Sideboard (15)
I now have exactly double the 1-mana spells in the mainboard as two-mana spells ^_^
I went from a 3/3 split to 2/4 for Hyena/Spider Umbra because blocking with Daybreak Coronet is so good against Delver and Affinity, and I already have a ton of ways to generate first strike. I added a couple enchantment and artifact hate auras over Stony Silence because it lowers my curve while staying proactive which is really nice. Finally, I cut one land for a Keen Sense because I have the lowest average converted mana cost of just about any Bogle deck out there(1.33 whoo) and drawing cards is good.
Rainbow Bogles
Creature (12):
- 4x Gladecover Scout
- 4x Invisible Stalker
- 4x Slippery Bogle
Enchantment (24):
- 4x Daybreak Coronet
- 4x Ethereal Armor
- 2x Hyena Umbra
- 4x Madcap Skills
- 4x Rancor
- 4x Spider Umbra
- 1x Spirit Link
- 1x Keen Sense
Spells(6):
- 2x Boros Charm
- 4x Path to Exile
Land (18)
- 2x City of Brass
- 4x Gemstone Mine
- 4x Horizon Canopy
- 4x Mana Confluence
- 4x Razorverge Thicket
Sideboard (15)
- 1x Grafdigger's Cage
- 4x Inquisition of Kozilek
- 4x Leyline of Sanctity
- 2x Flamespeaker's Will
- 2x Mortal Obstinacy
- 2x Suppression Field
I now have exactly double the 1-mana spells in the mainboard as two-mana spells ^_^
I went from a 3/3 split to 2/4 for Hyena/Spider Umbra because blocking with Daybreak Coronet is so good against Delver and Affinity, and I already have a ton of ways to generate first strike. I added a couple enchantment and artifact hate auras over Stony Silence because it lowers my curve while staying proactive which is really nice. Finally, I cut one land for a Keen Sense because I have the lowest average converted mana cost of just about any Bogle deck out there(1.33 whoo) and drawing cards is good.
ThLunarian
Member
I wonder just how virtually-small you can make a deck, such that you could almost ensure to have a combo + Force of Will backup every game.
I guess you'd start with 4x Street Wraith and 4x Gitaxian Probe, and maybe 4x Serum Powder? All the other 0 mana cantrips I know of make you delay a turn.
I guess you'd start with 4x Street Wraith and 4x Gitaxian Probe, and maybe 4x Serum Powder? All the other 0 mana cantrips I know of make you delay a turn.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Just had yet another 2-1 cube finish, this time with UW midrange. This time the one loss was true variance; in my game three against the Upheaval deck, I literally didn't draw a spell until after he resolved Upheaval on turn one million. I did manage to beat both Upheaval and Shackles in game two of that match though - that was pretty epic.
Cloudgoat Ranger does not get enough respect. That card is a beating.
Cloudgoat Ranger does not get enough respect. That card is a beating.
shrapnelmagnet
Member
Wow, I'm sure these threads have talked about it in the past, but I just recently watched the Return to Ravnica 'Box Mapping' videos... So insane, lol.
If you haven't seen them:
Pretty nuts. Makes me think of people that immediately decipher data to find hidden / cut content or whatever in a video game. I thought I remember reading something about serial numbers or something on boxes / boosters in earlier sets that made them less likely to have 'money cards'.
Anyway, just sorta blew my mind when I was watching these just now
If you haven't seen them:
Pretty nuts. Makes me think of people that immediately decipher data to find hidden / cut content or whatever in a video game. I thought I remember reading something about serial numbers or something on boxes / boosters in earlier sets that made them less likely to have 'money cards'.
Anyway, just sorta blew my mind when I was watching these just now
divisionbyzorro
Member
That's why you never buy packs online unless you're buying a sealed box. RTR was spectacularly bad, but I don't think they got their act together with mapping until Theros.
manipulate
Member
HAHA I was just watching those videos earlier from that reddit thread. Wizards what even
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Khans by far. Gatecrash may be the worst of the bunch. Khans is more fun to play and has more possibility of pulling a money rare.
Trust this advice. I bought into the shockland hype and bought way too much Gatecrash. It's a horrible, vile set.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Apparently Bertoncini is apologizing now. I leave this here with no comment.
http://m.imgur.com/a/iNFpm
http://m.imgur.com/a/iNFpm
Thanks, I went with Khans before I saw this advice. Glad I subconsciously made the right decision. Saved $5 and pick up 2 more booster pack for Born of the Gods.
My best friend just introduced me to Magic. I'll be visiting this thread from now on
Miniaturemarket.com have some really great deals on MTG right now if you guys are looking.
I bought the Core 2013 Booster Box for $68.
Isn't his username somewhere TwoExplores?
SigmasonicX
Member
I don't believe it.
Why do people care about this guy still? He's banned now, which to me is the end of the story. Everything beyond that is public ridiculing, and kinda not needed.
It's not permanent
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I wish Damnation was legal.
manipulate
Member
He's banned for like 3.5 more years though
That would make Esper and UB even more annoying though a reprint would probably drop it from it's silly price.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I have to agree about White Weenies in Legacy Cube. Even going half-half W/R its just a lot of business, not a lot of land.
Unfortunately I was about to fall asleep and just dropped so I could get to bed at a reasonable hour.
Unfortunately I was about to fall asleep and just dropped so I could get to bed at a reasonable hour.
"God's Beard!"
Member
How would you guys feel if Modern had a Restricted List like Vintage? Modern is fucking boring, so some spicy one-ofs could make the format a lot more interesting:
My picks for the ban list:
Fuck blood moon.
- Sensei's Divining Top
- Green Sun's Zenith
- Ponder
- Preordain
- Gitaxian Probe
- Treasure Cruise
- Dig Through Time
- Ancestral Visions
- Serum Visions
- Deathrite Shaman
- Mental Misstep
My picks for the ban list:
- Blood Moon
Fuck blood moon.
SigmasonicX
Member
I don't see how making any of those one-ofs would make things more exciting.
Anyway, with my vacation, I've been forgetting to check Mothership articles.
The story of Zurgo becoming obsessed with finding Sarkhan and thus losing his title of khan. I was pretty surprised to see that happen. Since he's going over to Ugin's tomb, I'm guessing he and probably the other khans will be sent back in time too.
Anyway, with my vacation, I've been forgetting to check Mothership articles.
The story of Zurgo becoming obsessed with finding Sarkhan and thus losing his title of khan. I was pretty surprised to see that happen. Since he's going over to Ugin's tomb, I'm guessing he and probably the other khans will be sent back in time too.
Restricting cards to one of's creates too much of a "Oh he/she only won because they drew their Top before I did."
Shit's dumb and leaves too much to variance. At least in vintage you have crazy amounts of card drawing and other broken shit to make up for it. It would not have any positive desirable effect for Modern.
Shit's dumb and leaves too much to variance. At least in vintage you have crazy amounts of card drawing and other broken shit to make up for it. It would not have any positive desirable effect for Modern.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Vintage also has a lot of redundant effects and tutors to where consistency isn't as affected as it would be in Modern if there was a restricted list.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Yet another 2-1 in Cube. I'm consistent, anyway. This time the one loss came to a mono-red deck. Game one I had pieced together the combo in terms of cards, but couldn't draw the fifth land to make it happen in time. Game two I flooded like a bawss. Match two and three were a cakewalk.
Somehow I didn't realize how insane Imperial Recruiter was for this deck until I actually drew it. Recruiter gets both halves of the combo if you're undisrupted. *kreygasm*
The only real bummer was that my round three opponent conceded before I got to take extra turns with Ral Zarek.
EDIT: My limited rating has jumped up by over 50 points since I've stopped playing Khans and started playing Cube. At this rate, I'll be back to the rating I had during Theros block before Cube is gone. Khans and I really don't get along.
Somehow I didn't realize how insane Imperial Recruiter was for this deck until I actually drew it. Recruiter gets both halves of the combo if you're undisrupted. *kreygasm*
The only real bummer was that my round three opponent conceded before I got to take extra turns with Ral Zarek.
EDIT: My limited rating has jumped up by over 50 points since I've stopped playing Khans and started playing Cube. At this rate, I'll be back to the rating I had during Theros block before Cube is gone. Khans and I really don't get along
.charlequin
Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";140759854]How would you guys feel if Modern had a Restricted List like Vintage? [/QUOTE]
Restriction sucks. It significantly raises variance and leads down a slippery slope where you have to start cracking down on tutors for it to even have a real effect. It works in Vintage because the whole point of Vintage is to play the most powerful cards, the format is okay with turn-one wins, and there are so many different broken restricted cards that building around them doesn't actually lead to a stagnant format. It wouldn't work well in a newer, lower-powered format.
Restriction sucks. It significantly raises variance and leads down a slippery slope where you have to start cracking down on tutors for it to even have a real effect. It works in Vintage because the whole point of Vintage is to play the most powerful cards, the format is okay with turn-one wins, and there are so many different broken restricted cards that building around them doesn't actually lead to a stagnant format. It wouldn't work well in a newer, lower-powered format.
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