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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
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I think it's U/W/B/R/G, but R gets Dragons/Phoenixes so it might be above B.
SCG has over 300 Hallowed Fountains for 5.50 today http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=412572
This seems insane if you don't own a playset/want to buy a stack to sit on
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";145499992]I love Hexproof.[/QUOTE]
I quit Magic for 2 months and sold about half my collection when they printed Archtype of Endurance in BNG in protest over Hexproof
This seems insane if you don't own a playset/want to buy a stack to sit on
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";145499992]I love Hexproof.[/QUOTE]
I quit Magic for 2 months and sold about half my collection when they printed Archtype of Endurance in BNG in protest over Hexproof
That's the right order (though White and Blue are arguably equal). Black gets more Flying at common and uncommon, and gets a decent number of flying demons at rare.
It really is. Cards like Invisible Stalker are extremely unhealthy for the game, and we'll continue to see more of them as long as Hexproof is in the same color as Flying and "can't be blocked".
I don't like Hexproof that much in Green, but at least Green doesn't have other common mechanics to remove interaction with its creatures.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Black becoming an aggro color is the most shameful thing in modern magic design. Why did they have to nerf black so hard? Now instead of paying life to hit the gas, it's pay life to turn your shitty mana-intensive card into something that has parity with what other colors already do.
And what happened to black being the tutor color? And real, actual reanimation spells? Black has the biggest color-identity crisis right now.
C'mon, Wizards! Do the right thing!
6B
Sorcery
Delve
Put target creature in a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control. You lose life equal to its converted mana cost.
ThLunarian
Member
divisionbyzorro
Member
Well, I managed to 3-0 a Holiday Cube with Mono-Red Black Lotus. I'd post the list, but all mono-red lists basically look the same. This one topped out at CMC 3, and basically the only thing I didn't have was Goblin Guide or Shrine. Tangle Wire was an all-star, and Eidolon of the Great Revel was insane, but Smash to Smithereens was the real MVP. Oh, you thought Batterskull was going to save you? 
SigmasonicX
Member
Concerning hexproof, one can't discount the new player view on shroud. Take this scenario:
New Player A casts an aura spell targeting his or her creature
Player B casts Doom Blade on it in response
Player A casts a variation of Ranger's Guile that uses shroud
Doom Blade is countered, which is what A wanted, but it also counters the aura.
Now a more experienced player would probably have figured that into the calculation, but Player A would just move on and put the aura on the creature. Player B points out the problem, Player A argues against it, a judge is called over, Player A comes out of the experience frustrated. Or maybe Player B doesn't notice the problem either, and the game continues on in an illegal state.
A huge part of this is the flavor issue of, "Why is my creature stopping me from helping it?" It simply doesn't make intuitive sense for many new players.
In any case, hexproof opened up a new avenue of decks where stacking up auras is perfectly valid, so I don't really see the problem there. Hexproof and evasion is a problem, but that hasn't really been a problem recently.
Also, confirmation that the woman on Temporal Trespass is just a random Sultai fighter, not anyone important.
New Player A casts an aura spell targeting his or her creature
Player B casts Doom Blade on it in response
Player A casts a variation of Ranger's Guile that uses shroud
Doom Blade is countered, which is what A wanted, but it also counters the aura.
Now a more experienced player would probably have figured that into the calculation, but Player A would just move on and put the aura on the creature. Player B points out the problem, Player A argues against it, a judge is called over, Player A comes out of the experience frustrated. Or maybe Player B doesn't notice the problem either, and the game continues on in an illegal state.
A huge part of this is the flavor issue of, "Why is my creature stopping me from helping it?" It simply doesn't make intuitive sense for many new players.
In any case, hexproof opened up a new avenue of decks where stacking up auras is perfectly valid, so I don't really see the problem there. Hexproof and evasion is a problem, but that hasn't really been a problem recently.
Also, confirmation that the woman on Temporal Trespass is just a random Sultai fighter, not anyone important.
........
Seriously, what the fuck.
You have the best card game ever made (and some would argue the greatest game of any kind ever made), and you just keep fucking up it's digital version.
FFS Hearthstone is barely half the game Magic is and it's my GOTY because it fucking works. Like at this point, I almost think WOTC should just shutter MTGO and focus only on physical cards, because no matter what they aren't beating Hearthstone in the market now, and they have shown zero ability to fix the problems of MTGO for over a decade now (I remember Chuck's Virtual Party, the apology for downtimes, killing MTGO in whole other ways.).
Here's the issue: it prints money.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Basic unit testing should have caught this. If the client and server have different year values in the date, it crashes. Completely unacceptable.
Did I tell you about my latest Holiday Cube deck?
ThLunarian
Member
Goddamn. I finally cultivated a for-trade list on Puca Trade, and like 9 different people want my Alchemist's Refuge. Literally half the list of matches on the "Available Trades" page are my Alchemist's Refuge.
Unfortunately it's only worth 41 cents so it's not worth shipping out by itself
Unfortunately it's only worth 41 cents so it's not worth shipping out by itself
"God's Beard!"
Member
If random sultai warriors can cast za warudo I dont know how any of the other clans survived into the future.
What design space in particular do you have in mind? Considering the increasing importance of combat and on the battlefield interactions, the value of Shroud continues to decrease over time. Remember Nerouk Commando and how awful it was?
There's no question that Invisible Stalker was obnoxious but one bad card doesn't make every instance of that mechanic + color a problem. EVERY OTHER instance of Hexproof + Blue has been manageable and reasonably interactive - design and develop with some brains (which WOTC does more often than not) and you're super in the clear. Aven Fleetwing didn't break Magic. Ascended Lawmage didn't break Magic. Prognostic Sphinx and Drogskol Capatin didn't break Magic. Geist of Saint Traft was super powerful but that didn't break Magic either. With all due respect, it's a non-issue that people like to whine about every once in a while to make themselves feel good or something.
See my response to Toxi.
Over a card that had no effect on ANY format? You have the right to use your money/time as you see fit but that seems.........extreme? I hope you at least took a break when Stalker came out.
"God's Beard!"
Member
STOP BEING MEAN TO INVISIBLE STALKER GUYS
The problem with Hexproof is that they don't cost it correctly. It's probably the strongest keyword they use in modern magic, slightly more powerful than Double Strike, but the cost of a 1/1 with Hexproof (Gladecover Scout) is half the cost of a 1/1 with Double Strike (Fencing Ace). If they cost the cards properly, Invisible Stalker should be 4 mana, and Gladecover Scout should be 2 mana (as a super pushed uncommon), or 3 mana (at common).
When they spoiled the first Archtype, I posted in this thread saying that if there was a Hexproof one that I was quitting Magic on principal. Then they did and I did what I said, and apparently missed not much of anything because BNG was such a shit set
Also, Geist was held in check by Phantasmal Image for half it's life in Standard
When they spoiled the first Archtype, I posted in this thread saying that if there was a Hexproof one that I was quitting Magic on principal. Then they did and I did what I said, and apparently missed not much of anything because BNG was such a shit set
Also, Geist was held in check by Phantasmal Image for half it's life in Standard
SigmasonicX
Member
And hexproof isn't balanced in blue right now?
divisionbyzorro
Member
Geist was pretty egregious too.
The instant that got spoiled all me and my buddies were doing was trying to figure out the most bullshit Geist deck possible.
It's only "balanced" if the cards featuring it are hyper-expensive (and mostly dogshit) So yes, it's balanced right now.
Don't get me wrong, hexproof is cool as something you give something, but Shroud is the superior evergreen.
On a related note: I've thought for a while red and green should have a kind of psuedo-indestructible keyword. IDK, something like "Does not leave battlefield until end step when dealt lethal damage" Basically the idea is a creature to represent a rampaging thing too frenzied to succumb to its wounds.
I think I was the only one in my playgroup at the time who thought the card was any good. How spectacularly correct I was proven
So you're saying when the mechanic is properly developed its fine and when its not properly developed its not fine? Hold the press, news at 11
It feels like complaining about double strike and saying "man wouldn't it be stupid if WOTC printed a 3/3 double-striker with haste for R? How messed up would that be?". It feels like all people have to complain about are hypotheticals. Invisible Stalker was an aberration. Tons of hexproof cards have come out in Blue since then (even before then) that were either worthless or tournament viable but didn't make people want to flip tables. Why are people still upset about the color and mechanic combo?
divisionbyzorro
Member
Because Invisible Stalker was so bad, it still resonates at a deeply emotional level with players, even three blocks later.
charlequin
Banned
It's not really a 4/5, it gets a power boost every time it attacks.
Indestructible is already in Green. That seems cool on a one-of mythic but I dunno if its something you want to keyword. Seems redundant with Indestructible and doesn't seem to have a ton of design space at first glance.
So it's a conditional 5/5. I guess that's okay if you have an army?
The art is also butt ugly. The B/R dragon looks like a one-headed Hydreigon, the G/W looks like it can't carry its own weight and the U/B err... let't hope the rest have better art. The sad thing is I need foils of these fools for my collection. Thank Bolas they're not mythic.
"God's Beard!"
Member
It really sucks that the UB dragon looks more like Smog Elemental than Thundermaw Hellkite.
And people shouldn't underestimate this. Mark Rosewater has talked a lot about how the current success of magic is down to them designing sets that have an emotional impact as well as an intellectual one. The emotions a block and the cards in it are incredibly important, and I absolutely think that heproof has a bad effect on the game when you look at it through that prism.
Invisible stalker has really left a bad taste in people's mouths, and the fact that it's currently not broken purely due to them over costing it doesn't fix that issue. As a mechanic shroud would be better, and in terms of the colour pie blue should be the *last* colour that gets hexproof, not the first. Letting the colour with counter spells, bounce and control have the ability to run creatures that you cannot touch is just a horrible combo, and it really smacks of the old days of magic when blue used to get every single mechanic because 'it's the colour of wizards and trickery so it gets to do everything!'.
SigmasonicX
Member
Now see, I don't really understand what about shroud makes it such a great mechanic, and I never got the impression that people really thought much of it back when it was being used. Hexproof at least allows for piling on auras to be a legitimate strategy.
SigmasonicX
Member
How is hexproof not "in check" and "balanced" right now? Also, while you said yourself that shroud is not exciting, hexproof, like I mentioned, opened up possibilities for a new deck type.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Because you can make UG Hexproof in Modern, but you can't make UG Shroud. See?
They need to tiptoe around putting Hexproof on things because of the one sided nature of its protection. The same wasn't true of Shroud.
They need to tiptoe around putting Hexproof on things because of the one sided nature of its protection. The same wasn't true of Shroud.
I won't be near a computer at midnight so Happy New Year to y'all in advance!
Blue and Green shared Shroud since the beginning (or near the beginning) of the game. The flavor was that their creatures were resistant to magic either due to Blue knowledge of magic (see counterspells) or because they were so damn tough (Green). Now that Shroud is gone (and sucks) both colors get Hexproof for the same reason. Since the mechanic is better than Shroud it has to be developed carefully but outside that one mistake from years ago, they've done so. Hexproof hasn't broken Magic and it hasn't broken Blue. Let it go.
Shroud was good when you could often expect to play against creatureless decks because creatures in general were bad. Nowadays, when creatures are better & more important than ever in limited and constructed, not being able to interact with your own creatures is a detriment. Shroud sucks when you opponents actually has blockers.
I just remembered Sphinx of Jwar Isle - the was the last card with Shroud that was actually good in the last few years of that mechanic life's. Pretty narrow in applications though and not the type of card where changing Shroud to Hexproof "breaks" it or something.
Blue and Green shared Shroud since the beginning (or near the beginning) of the game. The flavor was that their creatures were resistant to magic either due to Blue knowledge of magic (see counterspells) or because they were so damn tough (Green). Now that Shroud is gone (and sucks) both colors get Hexproof for the same reason. Since the mechanic is better than Shroud it has to be developed carefully but outside that one mistake from years ago, they've done so. Hexproof hasn't broken Magic and it hasn't broken Blue. Let it go.
Shroud was good when you could often expect to play against creatureless decks because creatures in general were bad. Nowadays, when creatures are better & more important than ever in limited and constructed, not being able to interact with your own creatures is a detriment. Shroud sucks when you opponents actually has blockers.
I just remembered Sphinx of Jwar Isle - the was the last card with Shroud that was actually good in the last few years of that mechanic life's. Pretty narrow in applications though and not the type of card where changing Shroud to Hexproof "breaks" it or something.
The problem with Hexproof is that it leads to very boring and linear gameplay even when it is balanced. Throwing tons of buffs on a single creature that your opponent can't take out isn't fun; Theros limited was basically that and it was snore-worthy.
There were other mistakes. Triple Avacyn Restored was already an awful format, but one of the worst parts was that Blue had access to Flying and Hexproof Soulbonders that were cheaper than the vast majority of removal. Fuck those things.
Nobody's said it has. We just think it's fucking boring, and it doesn't belong in a color with so many evasion mechanics. When you combine evasion and protection from removal, you get something an awful lot like True-Name Nemesis, and the last thing we need is another goddamn True-Name Nemesis.
Sorceror of the Great Hunt
3R
Creature - Orc Shaman
Haste
Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player, put a +1/+1 counter on it
Ferocity - 2[G/U][G/U] : draw a card for each creature with power 4 or greater you control
4/2
Looks like we have a Mythic Cycle here going the "other" way in the allied color pairs.
3R
Creature - Orc Shaman
Haste
Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to a player, put a +1/+1 counter on it
Ferocity - 2[G/U][G/U] : draw a card for each creature with power 4 or greater you control
4/2
Looks like we have a Mythic Cycle here going the "other" way in the allied color pairs.
Yep.. That's going to go extremely well with rabblemaster..
Edit: Happy new year MtGaf
Awesome. White Pyromancer lol.
SigmasonicX
Member
Art for this:
This provides a bit of a conundrum. Haste 4 power for 4 means you'll want to attack with it even if it could potentially be taken out, but then you have a draw ability that could potentially get really big if you hold it back.
SigmasonicX
Member
If I do have one complaint, it's that so far, the clans really don't seem that different from the "present". I can buy them having weirder and seemingly more advanced abilities than the "present" versions since the idea is that the clans were stronger when they were fighting dragons, but the only clear indication that this is the past is the dragons.
There's apparently more dragon stuff going on than we've seen. But they don't want to spoil set 3 early either.
Yep.. That's going to go extremely well with rabblemaster..
Edit: Happy new year MtGaf
Awesome. White Pyromancer lol.
Is it me or does this card seem insane?
Not just you.. It's bonkers.
Is insane.
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