"God's Beard!"
Member
I have a lot of respect for Hagon, but he doesn't deal well with things he can't... prepare for.
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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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I have a lot of respect for Hagon, but he doesn't deal well with things he can't... prepare for.
Interesting. Can't say either way.
SigmasonicX
Member
Mothership announcement article has a Jace picture:
It will be interesting to see pre-spark versions of planeswalker characters.
It will be interesting to see pre-spark versions of planeswalker characters.
Very clutch.
Splinter absolutely should be banned. Like you say, it's a virtual t3 (or t3.5?) win that is very narrow in terms of being able to answer it.
So then why not amulet bloom pieces since it can drop primetimes on T2? I am glad to see both Abzan decks lose.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think they don't want to open the can of worms of banning entire decks too often. Twin wasnt oppressive when we had Pod.
Splinter Twin in UR or URW or RUG shells is the same issue we had w/ Rhino Pod- a combo finish in a deck that's otherwise not a combo deck.
"God's Beard!"
Member
That was the longest four turns ever.
What all cards do you think should be banned? Just wondering what kind of metagame we'd have.
I think Thoughtseize would make a better format, but may not actually be an issue. I think Splinter Twin has basically been screwing over sorcery-speed decks in the format the entire time its been legal and it's helped push towards "nothing but Jund variants" we see.
I think Siege Rhino has pushed us more towards Jund/Junk/Abzan decks than Splinter Twin has.
Siege Rhino got Pod banned because the Pod decks just became straight value decks that happened to have an infinite combo. It's definitely a stupid card.
I think they really need to get a lot of heads together on it, because it's running into issues for sure.
I'd be alright with a rotating ban list. Keep it depowered for 6 months, then release a few key cards for 6 months so the format is completely new, then ban another set of cards in a different configuration to the first time. I guess it would screw over the idea of having one deck which is a big draw to the format though
Yeah, casuals would hate this.
Here's a simpler version of where I'm coming from: I want to live in a world where blue answer decks are playable. I don't want to live in one where the best kill condition is Splinter Twin. I do not like these hybrid decks existing.
I was more offended by so much Junk and Burn doing so well. They're about as boring as you get.
What is the "ideal" kill condition? Geist of Saint Traft/Restoration Angel/Vendilion Clique/Celestial Colonnade beatdown? Large formats like Modern & Extended will likely never be conducive to 6+ mana, hard to kill "dragons".
I haven't seen too much of the amulet deck before this weekend but what I'm assuming is that the deck is overall extremely fragile and requires a specific number of cards to do a T2 win. Regardless, I think the deck looks extremely un-fun to play against, much like Egg was.
Oppressive in terms of what? Popularity? Win %? I'd like to see some numbers but the deck has existed since Modern debuted and hasn't been touched. Do you really think it's fun or skill based to go land, land, land, flash creature of choice, untap and play another land cast Splinter Twin?
It's always a pleasure to hear LSV commentate. Truly an ambassador of MtG.
Also, yay, Euroland win! Score is now tied 1-1. See you in Brussels!
Also, yay, Euroland win! Score is now tied 1-1. See you in Brussels!
Thinks Thoughtseize is too good. Wants Splinter Twin banned.
Twin is fine and not oppressive, and is very fragile to instant speed removal, which you can find easily.
Thoughtseize is too good and should never have been printed. I don't think we're at the point where you axe it yet, but long-term it's a consideration. See: Kiblers articles on it where he was pissed at the standard legal-reprint.
The Twin deck isn't a dedicated Twin deck. It's a U/R Tempo deck that uses Twin as a secondary kill condition. We literally just banned Pod for being a secondary combo in Abzan goodstuff decks, and this is doing the exact same thing and has been doing it for just as long. "Dies to removal" = "Dies to Abrupt Decay". The deck has access to Dispel and other counter magic to hit other kill spells. It's only fragile if you play badly with it.
The Twin deck isn't a dedicated Twin deck. It's a U/R Tempo deck that uses Twin as a secondary kill condition. We literally just banned Pod for being a secondary combo in Abzan goodstuff decks, and this is doing the exact same thing and has been doing it for just as long. "Dies to removal" = "Dies to Abrupt Decay". The deck has access to Dispel and other counter magic to hit other kill spells. It's only fragile if you play badly with it.
Deceiver getting a ban would probably be replaced by that white 1/4 that does the exactly same thing.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Looks like the Bloom deck couldn't quite beat it's worst possible matchup after being gifted a win in the semis. Can't say I'm too surprised about the outcome - Modern is a matchup format, and seedings/matchups in the top 8 were pretty much the most important factor in who won.
Regarding Twin: the problem with banning it is that it doesn't meet any of the criteria for a ban. It doesn't win too fast. It doesn't win too much. You can argue that it hurts diversity, but there are still plenty of Jeskai Control and UR Faeries decks that are viable without having to play Twin. Twin decks are playing sub-par creatures in order to combo - it's really not just as simple as "jam 4 Twin into a stock UR tempo deck to win more."
Is Twin shutting down other strategies? Of course! So are Thoughtseize decks, Cranial Plating decks, Lava Spike decks, etc. Just because there's a deck out there that's powerful, consistent, and has a swath of good matchups doesn't mean you must ban it - unless it demonstrates an oppressive leve of dominance repeatedly (e.g. pre-ban Jund).
Regarding Twin: the problem with banning it is that it doesn't meet any of the criteria for a ban. It doesn't win too fast. It doesn't win too much. You can argue that it hurts diversity, but there are still plenty of Jeskai Control and UR Faeries decks that are viable without having to play Twin. Twin decks are playing sub-par creatures in order to combo - it's really not just as simple as "jam 4 Twin into a stock UR tempo deck to win more."
Is Twin shutting down other strategies? Of course! So are Thoughtseize decks, Cranial Plating decks, Lava Spike decks, etc. Just because there's a deck out there that's powerful, consistent, and has a swath of good matchups doesn't mean you must ban it - unless it demonstrates an oppressive leve of dominance repeatedly (e.g. pre-ban Jund).
divisionbyzorro
Member
Double post:
The continued emphasis on Liliana as a sexual object for teenage boys is exactly the type of thing that makes me embarrassed to publicly admit my love for Magic.
The continued emphasis on Liliana as a sexual object for teenage boys is exactly the type of thing that makes me embarrassed to publicly admit my love for Magic.
"God's Beard!"
Member
So I've decided to follow my dreams and broke down my UW Miracles deck for trade parts and started building my favorite Legacy deck, Reanimator.
Fuck how goddamn expensive this deck is, though. Three duals in the sideboard just to splash abrupt decay? Who do you think I am, Joe Lossett? Build a cheaper version next time, dude :-(
Fuck how goddamn expensive this deck is, though. Three duals in the sideboard just to splash abrupt decay? Who do you think I am, Joe Lossett? Build a cheaper version next time, dude :-(
I feel like there's a middle ground between BLM Lili wnd WHM Lili but they just have to make her go full Frazetta for the former. If they merely covered her belly and gave her, like, an evening dress that goes up to the shoulders, that would go a long way towards making her more presentable. Or do it the other way, and cover her top with a vest and she can show off her midriff for the 14 year olds.
Well let's see, how can we make a card better than Thoughtseize.
- You can choose land cards
- You can pick two cards instead of just one
- No life loss. Hell, gain some life instead.
Thoughtseize is too good. It is the best 1CC discard spell in the game.
Not sure what that has to do with Splinter Twin being terrible for the format.
Because I made both comments.
Life is a resource. As long as you are above 0 it doesn't matter for the most part if you're at 1 life or a million life. 2 life is rather insignificant, especially on the first few crucial turns of the game.
Yeah but he quoted me even though I'm not sure why.
I just had a deja vu. Didn't we have this conversation some time ago about haymaker Thoughtseize?
Thank you for the Magic Theory 101. Losing two life on a Thoughtseize is a real concern when you're also hitting yourself for multiple life from your lands and Burn is a real deck in the format, since Thoughtseize + cracking a fetch for a basic is one less card they'll need to kill you with. Not enough to not play it, generally, but enough that four of them isn't necessarily the way to go even if you want that many hand disruption spells.
Yes, back when Monoblack pack rat decks were oppressing RTR standard.
It's a risk and I'm not saying you won't lose games because of it but 2 life is a tame drawback. Going turn one fetch into untapped shock into Thoughtseize is pretty bad for 5 life but sometimes worth it.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Jund had to really watch their life total or play low-impact threats like Kitchen Finks (which is obviously a great card but not a serious wincon). Now you get to jam 4 Siege Rhino to easily offset the lifeloss.
The problem with Thoughtseize is that it's simultaneously too good and the best police card in the format. What happens if you ban it? What happens to Storm? Bloom? Etc. The fact that it's around means that you don't have to be super aggressive with bannings directed at combo decks.
The problem with Thoughtseize is that it's simultaneously too good and the best police card in the format. What happens if you ban it? What happens to Storm? Bloom? Etc. The fact that it's around means that you don't have to be super aggressive with bannings directed at combo decks.
I agree with your statement that it is a police type of card. All I was saying is the card in a vacuum is too good. Splinter Twin is a more problematic card.
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