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[GregLombardi]

There is probably no land cycle unless its all Dragon land bullshit



I bet the Zendikar lands are in Zendikar



Haven is 249/264 - which is exactly 3 of each basic.

Oh I agree. There is 0% question in my mind that Zendikar is where they are. But I guess I'm just saying -- they already reprinted fetches in the 1st set of this block...I'm not certain I see an earth shattering set of lands coming (no pun intended).

 

[WanderingWind]

Evolving Wilds is 248, Haven is 249, the remaining cards out of 264 are likely - Plains Plains Plains Island Island Island Swamp Swamp Swamp Mountain Mountain Mountain Forest Forest Forest

That's what I was asking about numbering earlier. This seems likely, then.

 

[manipulate]

Set seems really boring so far?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Set seems really boring so far?

Its looking pretty bad, yeah. I think Kirblar likes what he sees, but I'm not sure why lol

 

[kirblar]

Set seems really boring so far?

Tis to be expected, given the "ALL FAT FAT FATTIES" mandate. For what it is, it's fine.

 

[Firemind]

so no enemy manland or enemy fastlands? you lied to me, kirblar!

 

[aidan]

Set seems really boring so far?

Maro always talks about how dangerous parasitic design is, but this set seems parasitic to the extreme. Lots of cards that don't interact very well with anything outside of the block.

 

[kirblar]

so no enemy manland or enemy fastlands? you lied to me, kirblar!

I'm still hoping for some sort of "Abandoned Palace" thing here, but yeah it's starting to look bad.

 

[Yeef]

Maro always talks about how dangerous parasitic design is, but this set seems parasitic to the extreme. Lots of cards that don't interact very well with anything outside of the block.

I'm not sure which cards you're thinking of. I can't think of a single parasitic card in this set off the top of my head.

 

[OnPoint]

I'm still hoping for some sort of "Abandoned Palace" thing here, but yeah it's starting to look bad.

Abandoned Palace?

 

[aidan]

I'm not sure which cards you're thinking of. I can't think of a single parasitic card in this set off the top of my head.

Unless I'm misinterpreting Maro's definition, these all seem to fit the bill:

All of them need to be in an ecosystem full of dragons, dash, or facedown cards to be effective.

 

[bigkrev]

Unless I'm misinterpreting Maro's definition, these all seem to fit the bill:
All of them need to be in an ecosystem full of dragons, dash, or facedown cards to be effective.

The first 2 are limited build around cards... and Dragons are as evergreen as it gets in Magic (there are 4 dragons in M15, one in each set of Theros, ect)

 

[kirblar]

Abandoned Palace?

Opulent Palace -> Palace Siege -> Clan graveyards

Would be a nice mirror to the dead dragon fetches in KTK.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It seems more like they're just going to have no fixing in an unabashedly multicolor set that even suggests in the last pack of draft that three-color is a good idea. (given that fixing is spoiled pretty early normally) Yeah, this set looks pretty terrible so far.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

DDF will be a two-color draft format.

 

[Angry Grimace]

DDF will be a two-color draft format.

There's still enemy colored cards in FRF plus some much less attractive enemy colored fixing (so it slides down the list of where you'd take it). You are given at least some incentive to try it. Granted, its just a third color splash which isn't exactly "three-color," but still.

Unless the commons and uncommons are a lot more powerful than what we've seen so far, its probably also gonna be miserable.

 

[OnPoint]

Opulent Palace -> Palace Siege -> Clan graveyards

Would be a nice mirror to the dead dragon fetches in KTK.

Ah I getcha. Sounds cool, especially since we aren't getting khan graves as enemy fetches.

 

[Joe Molotov]

DDF will be a two-color draft format.

I miss KTKx3. :'(

 

[Firemind]

DDF will be a two-color draft format.

How am I going to play blue sarkhan?

 

[Angry Grimace]

How am I going to play blue sarkhan?

He's just a splash off Atarka, I guess.

 

[keeblerdrow]

What if they print a cycle of new dual lands that can be targeted by fetches? What would they look like? What would the drawback have to be?

 

[Firemind]

*implying I'm going to pull a sarkhan which will never happen

 

[Xis]

Tis to be expected, given the "ALL FAT FAT FATTIES" mandate. For what it is, it's fine.

To me, the Khans timeline seems a lot more interesting than the Dragons timeline, from both a flavor perspective (dragons are pretty meh) and from a mechanical perspective (would have liked to seen the wedges explored further).

 

[ultron87]

What if they print a cycle of new dual lands that can be targeted by fetches? What would they look like? What would the drawback have to be?

That could be cool. They could just do typed duals that always enter the battlefield tapped and have them be uncommon. Those would make playing a ton of colors really easy though.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I just realized you guys never posted these:

Jeez, and people thought Garruk's Companion was a big example of power creep when it came out.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I really do like the Avatar of the Resolute.

I'm sure some may say it's lame, but I'm a sucker for stuff like that. I still think I'm old-fashioned lol.

 

[Firemind]

that zombie horror token sure is nightmare fuel.

 

[Yeef]

Unless I'm misinterpreting Maro's definition, these all seem to fit the bill:

All of them need to be in an ecosystem full of dragons, dash, or facedown cards to be effective.

Deceiver is fine because morph has been used in several blocks and will likely be used again at some point down the line.

Warbringer's dash reduction is more of a bonus than anything. A 3/3 for 4 is in red's wheel house and it having dash itself makes it a fine card to run as your only dash creature in a deck. You either get a hasty 3/3 for cheap or you get multiple hasty 3/3s for cheap with the right draw.

Dragons appear in pretty much every set, so the dragon-specific stuff also isn't parasitic.

When I think parasitic, I think mechanics like splice onto arcane, which does nothing with cards from outside of Kamigawa block. In recent times, the gates-matter cards from RTR block are another good example of what I'd consider parasitic design (though they're on the lighter side of the spectrum).

 

[Yeef]

Orator of Ojutai 1W
Creature - Bird Monk
Defender, flying
As an additional cost to cast ~, you may reveal a Dragon card from your hand.
When ~ enters the battlefield, if you revealed a Dragon card or controlled a Dragon as you cast ~, draw a card.
0/4

There's your Wall of Omens for the Ojutai Command

[EDIT] Actually, the ability only triggers if it was cast, now that I re-read it. That doesn't work.

 

[OnPoint]

I just realized you guys never posted these:

Jeez, and people thought Garruk's Companion was a big example of power creep when it came out.

That avatar is nuts. And that zombie is cool looking.

 

[ultron87]

Orator of Ojutai 1W
Creature - Bird Monk
Defender, flying
As an additional cost to cast ~, you may reveal a Dragon card from your hand.
When ~ enters the battlefield, if you revealed a Dragon card or controlled a Dragon as you cast ~, draw a card.
0/4

There's your Wall of Omens for the Ojutai Command

Except that doesn't work with Command because it checks for Dragon on cast.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Wall O' Dragons, I guess.

(Defender, Flying, Draw a card on ETB if you reveal/control dragon)

 

[y2dvd]

Was this posted yet? It would be pretty funny to put it on their Siege Rhino. I guess it ain't attacking no more!

 

[Angry Grimace]

Was this posted yet? It would be pretty funny to put it on their Siege Rhino. I guess it ain't attacking no more!

I'm assuming you mean the mirror enchantment, yes we had talked about it earlier and about putting it on your Master of Waves.

 

[kirblar]

Except that doesn't work with Command because it checks for Dragon on cast.

Gotta cast Ojutai first then use command.

 

[Firemind]

Dragons appear in pretty much every set, so the dragon-specific stuff also isn't parasitic.

yes it is. the reveal dragon clause might as well not exist outside limited.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I hardly think it's important that there are some cards that only work well in limited or only well with other cards in the block.

 

[ultron87]

Gotta cast Ojutai first then use command.

I don't think even that works assuming the text is the same as the other cards like it:

If you don't cast the card it can't check that you had a dragon while you cast it.

 

[SigmasonicX]

I don't think even that works assuming the text is the same as the other cards like it:

If you don't cast the card it can't check that you had a dragon while you cast it.

I like how the clause they put in specifically to minimize feel-bad moments (of the dragon being destroyed in response to you casting) has just caused a feel-bad moment.

 

[OnPoint]

Was this posted yet? It would be pretty funny to put it on their Siege Rhino. I guess it ain't attacking no more!

It's good for that, but I also love the idea of putting it on your OWN Siege Rhino and just stomping in for massive life swings.

 

[Toxi]

From a flavor perspective, the Dragons of Tarkir clans feel more boring than the Khans of Tarkir clans. Removing the enemy color removes a lot of the nuance and inner conflict of the clans, instead making them just pale knockoffs of the Ravnica guilds. The Abzan are the worst example of this; they lost basically everything interesting about the clan (the ruthless survival focus, the religious take on necromancy, the Krumar system) and are now just the generic White-Green teamwork faction.

Makes me sad because I really liked the Abzan.

I just realized you guys never posted these:

Jeez, and people thought Garruk's Companion was a big example of power creep when it came out.

Holy fuck, that's a good card.

Also, that flavor text demonstrates exactly why the Dromoka are more boring than the Abzan.

 

[Yeef]

yes it is. the reveal dragon clause might as well not exist outside limited.

Parasitic design has nothing to do with the power of the card. I can assure you, there are tons of casual players with dragon decks that can make use of the "have a dragon" cards.

From a flavor perspective, the Dragons of Tarkir clans feel more boring than the Khans of Tarkir clans. Removing the enemy color removes a lot of the nuance and inner conflict of the clans, instead making them just pale knockoffs of the Ravnica guilds. The Abzan are the worst example of this; they lost basically everything interesting about the clan (the ruthless survival focus, the religious take on necromancy, the Krumar system) and are now just the generic White-Green teamwork faction.

Makes me sad because I really liked the Abzan.

Well, they did say, on the first day of spoilers, that Sarkhan was supposed to change the world for the worse with his time-travel shenanigans (from the perspective of a Tarkir native).

The main character would come to the world, find it flawed in some way, go back in time and fix what he or she thought was the problem, and then return back to present day to see what impact the change has had. As is dictated by the archetype, it never goes exactly the way main character expects.

So we started Khans of Tarkir design knowing we needed a flawed world that would get changed into an even more flawed world.

 

[fifasnipe2224]

Was this posted yet? It would be pretty funny to put it on their Siege Rhino. I guess it ain't attacking no more!

Would the cloned Rhino ETB effect still trigger?

 

[kirblar]

I could see Return to Tarkir getting 2 full blocks a la Lorwyn/Shadowmoor when we go back.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Would the cloned Rhino ETB effect still trigger?

Yes, and you as the controller of the enchantment would get its ETB. It just stops Rhino from blocking.

I could see Return to Tarkir getting 2 full blocks a la Lorwyn/Shadowmoor when we go back.

I sincerely hope not.

 

[Toxi]

Would the cloned Rhino ETB effect still trigger?

Yes.

Well, they did say, on the first day of spoilers, that Sarkhan was supposed to change the world for the worse with his time-travel shenanigans (from the perspective of a Tarkir native).

It's not so much that the world is off worse, it's that it's more boring.

 

[Firemind]

When are we going back to Dominaria is my question. I want an Urza planeswalker.

 

[Angry Grimace]

When are we going back to Dominaria is my question. I want an Urza planeswalker.

Maro says its a 10 on the Storm Scale.

 

[WanderingWind]

Maro says its a 10 on the Storm Scale.

Huh. Last I saw he said it was inevitable but a long ways away.

 

[Yeef]

When are we going back to Dominaria is my question. I want an Urza planeswalker.

I'm guessing they'll do it for the 25th anniversary, 2018.