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[WanderingWind]

Yeah, I don't think you guys are looking at the big picture on sets like that. It was a great boon to the standard and modern environements, it appealed to the casual market and it sold gangbusters. Not every set has to be for the hardcore crowd.

 

[kirblar]

Yeah, I don't think you guys are looking at the big picture on sets like that. It was a great boon to the standard and modern environements, it appealed to the casual market and it sold gangbusters. Not every set has to be for the hardcore crowd.

Its more that limited isn't played repetitively by a lot of people. Mich bigger issue re MTGO sales.

 

[red13th]

I really don't get how you could still be upset about this. Anyway, follow up to that (and I'd appreciate if you linked the post instead of posting a picture):

what? it's a joke, I don't particularly hate Maro (especially not for figuratively swimming in preorder money). I don't like him either but he shouldn't care. and honestly, I never hated AVR since I'm not a limited player, it had generally good artwork and Griselbrand but wasn't all that remarkable (oh Resto Angel is a great card too). your posts re: AVR are really weird dude.

 

[WanderingWind]

Its more that limited isn't played repetitively by a lot of people. Mich bigger issue re MTGO sales.

Right, those would be the hardcore players and their complaints are valid. But while it's perfectly valid to call it a bad set, people have to understand that it's just an opinion and not a fact. Facts are that the set tested well, sold better than any set before it (at the time) and had wide ranging impact in every single constructed format available. It even gave the game an entirely new archetype.

And it was designed as a flavor first set that gave casual fans something they've been asking for pretty much since day one - angels remain one of the most popular tribe, as we can see from the next FtV. From any perspective besides the poorly balanced limited environment - which if we believe WotC's statements was still wildly popular - was an unqualified success.

So, the questions posed that ask "why does Wizards keep making bad sets" and those asking MaRo "So, why did AVR suck?" are super off the mark. People very often have trouble separating their personal quibbles with something from its success and this is a prime example. Clearly, the limited environment sucked, but that is only one aspect of a multifaceted game.

 

[MjFrancis]

It's really easy to forget how much of their market is people who buy packs at Wal-Mart, jam games at the table, and have no idea who LSV is.

So much this. Avacyn Restored may have been a terrible Limited environment, but it succeeded on so many other levels that make that irrelevant.

Regarding Innistrad block... I'm really tempted to buy a booster box or build a straight Innistrad cube to replicate that drafting experience. I only did triple Innistrad once and I regret missing out on that draft environment. Considering how expensive Modern Masters 2 will be, I'm more apt to buy a box of Innistrad at $220 than a box of MM2 for $240+ (and we know that's going to be marked up).

 

[MjFrancis]

These price spikes got me down.

Liliana of the Veil - $90

http://www.mtgstocks.com/cards/53

Snapcaster Mage - $50

http://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/129

I have one Liliana and two Snapcasters. Wish I had full playsets of both, but I'm not about to complete them anytime soon. I have a near-mint Jace the Mind Sculptor that I literally do nothing with, it's crazy to think I could trade straight across for a LotV.

 

[acheron_xl]

I'm sad I sold my Liliana in the giant batch of cards I sold last year. That seller's remorse.

 

[red13th]

I bought Snappy for $35, in February. Lily was 65-70 at the time, I think.

 

[Toxi]

I'm sad I sold my Liliana in the giant batch of cards I sold last year. That seller's remorse.

I have a friend who sold a Force of Will a decade ago for 15 dollars. He still regrets it.

 

[MjFrancis]

I traded a Brimaz for a Snapcaster when I cracked it. I bought a complete set of Innistrad for around $110 or so a year ago. I won't get any deals that good for those cards ever again.

 

[The Technomancer]

I have a Liliana and two Snapcasters somewhere in my fucking apartment and I have to find them

 

[WanderingWind]

I gave a NeoGAF user a free Lili as a pack in for a trade we did.

 

[red13th]

I gave a NeoGAF user a free Lili as a pack in for a trade we did.

wow that's generous. let's trade.

 

[WanderingWind]

wow that's generous. let's trade.

In my defense, I was really new at the time and also just hated Planeswalkers because they were like, not Craw Wurms. And I think I screwed up and had sent the wrong pack of cards to the wrong address and those two had to mail their shit to one another.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I have a friend who sold a Force of Will a decade ago for 15 dollars. He still regrets it.

I don't know that I regret losing 50 bucks a decade ago too often....

It's really easy to forget how much of their market is people who buy packs at Wal-Mart, jam games at the table, and have no idea who LSV is.

If I go to Wal-Mart or Target, I'm almost assuredly buying a couple packs. Because I am dumb and do that, and now have 7 Zurgo Helmsmasher.

 

[Jhriad]

Should I be dumping my Snapcaster playset now or wait for the bump from increased Modern popularity after MM2015 hits?

 

[Angry Grimace]

Should I be dumping my Snapcaster playset now or wait for the bump from increased Modern popularity after MM2015 hits?

You lose nothing from holding onto it because Snapcaster isn't getting reprinted. I have a set that I'm not ever going to use and its getting dumped whenever I assume the money is at its best.

 

[WanderingWind]

Should I be dumping my Snapcaster playset now or wait for the bump from increased Modern popularity after MM2015 hits?

WAIT. Lili is definitely getting reprinted in a standard set sooner than later. Snapcaster will never, ever, ever see the light of day in standard again. Since we know he for sure will not be in MMA2, he hasn't even come close to his ceiling. Now, I would bet cash money on him being in MMA3, assuming part deux is a success.

 

[red13th]

I wish they made a new Modern Masters every year.

 

[Angry Grimace]

WAIT. Lili is definitely getting reprinted in a standard set sooner than later. Snapcaster will never, ever, ever see the light of day in standard again. Since we know he for sure will not be in MMA2, he hasn't even come close to his ceiling. Now, I would bet cash money on him being in MMA3, assuming part deux is a success.

Even if he's in MM3, that doesn't even mean anything for his price so long as packs are 10 bucks each and super limited.

 

[WanderingWind]

Even if he's in MM3, that doesn't even mean anything for his price so long as packs are 10 bucks each and super limited.

And you know he'll be mythic because mythic in MMA means "expensive card or dragons lol"

 

[Angry Grimace]

And you know he'll be mythic because mythic in MMA means "expensive card or dragons lol"

I mean, the idea of MM is fun, but the execution so far has been a little gross.

 

[WanderingWind]

You're saying you don't like giants and Kamigawa dragons?

 

[kirblar]

I mean, the idea of MM is fun, but the execution so far has been a little gross.

One of the major reasons Modern PTs are a "problem" in the eyes of some- they expose that the metagame in a world where anyone can afford any deck is nowhere near as "balanced" as the real-world one.

 

[ultron87]

I do hope that with *10 Dollar Packs* MM2 has a lower number of dollar rares. But that is probably a foolish hope.

 

[The Technomancer]

I gave a NeoGAF user a free Lili as a pack in for a trade we did.

That was me. Its around somewhere!

Honestly if you ever really wanted it you could have it back. If I could find it!

 

[WanderingWind]

Come on guys. Cloudgoat Ranger GOAT

 

[Angry Grimace]

One of the major reasons Modern PTs are a "problem" in the eyes of some- they expose that the metagame in a world where anyone can afford any deck is nowhere near as "balanced" as the real-world one.

My Modern deck is literally the Event Deck with some shit I threw in that I could afford.

(one of those things is 4 Bitterblossom, so I'm probably in less of a position to claim poverty, but still)

 

[WanderingWind]

That was me. Its around somewhere!

Honestly if you ever really wanted it you could have it back. If I could find it!

I know it was you...lol. Wasn't trying to drop names because I didn't want anybody to get the wrong idea, yeah? I mean, I wouldn't say no to getting it back, but you know, I gave it to you because I fucked up. You weren't sharking me and it was a good lesson in paying the fuck attention when sending out packages. No harm, no foul. But if you ever wanna trade it back...hahah

 

[ironmang]

I'm sad I sold my Liliana in the giant batch of cards I sold last year. That seller's remorse.

Shouldn't really worry about that kind of stuff. Most of us don't have the amount of money required to hoard every staple so we don't lose out on some potential future value.

 

[Toxi]

I don't know that I regret losing 50 bucks a decade ago too often....

It's the little mistakes in life that hurt.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Shouldn't really worry about that kind of stuff. Most of us don't have the amount of money required to hoard every staple so we don't lose out on some potential future value.

I sold all my Ugin and then decided I really like Sultai Control.

I lost like 5 bucks because Ugin isn't cheaper than he was at FRF launch.

 

[Socat]

Shouldn't really worry about that kind of stuff. Most of us don't have the amount of money required to hoard every staple so we don't lose out on some potential future value.

Yeah, a few years ago, I would periodically trade in some tournament level staples for a couple budget decks, which is why I have a suitcase full of decks at varying degrees of competetiveness. Luckily, I have kept most of the stuff I needed to get into Modern and have a few different decks to play.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Should I be dumping my Snapcaster playset now or wait for the bump from increased Modern popularity after MM2015 hits?

Now's a great time to unload. If you PM me I can hook up with a great buyer.


:3

 

[SigmasonicX]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";156770593]Now's a great time to unload. If you PM me I can hook up with a great buyer.


:3[/QUOTE]

Emailing this out of context to the FBI

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Now here's a Cube deck.

Crazy effective. Lost a couple of games to drawing too much air (the usual risk with ramp), but I don't think I could have asked for too much more without being greedy. I even managed to beat a T3 Elesh Norn with this pile. 3-0, and most games didn't feel close.

 

[Firemind]

Not enough Ugins.

 

[red13th]

shit looks like my last purchase (that included Jace TMS) was taxed. I'll have to pay import duties (which are 50% of the price of what I bought... ouch). I hate hate hate hate hate customs.

 

[Firemind]

I don't know why I keep taking Emrakul. There are, like, only three ways to cheat it into play now, and one of them might as well be magical christmasland.

 

[kirblar]

Fun ROE fact- there are only 100 commons instead of 101. Why is this? It's because the two common Eldrazi each appear an extra time on one of the two sheets, making them more common than the rest of the cards at the rarity.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Fun ROE fact- there are only 100 commons instead of 101. Why is this? It's because the two common Eldrazi each appear an extra time on one of the two sheets, making them more common than the rest of the cards at the rarity.

Why does Ulamog get more minions than the other Eldrazi?

 

[Yeef]

Fun ROE fact- there are only 100 commons instead of 101. Why is this? It's because the two common Eldrazi each appear an extra time on one of the two sheets, making them more common than the rest of the cards at the rarity.

Something that I never though about since I don't play MTGO: do they attempt to mimic paper packs (in terms of collation and slightly off rarities like the 101st common) or are boosters truly random?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Something that I never though about since I don't play MTGO: do they attempt to mimic paper packs (in terms of collation and slightly off rarities like the 101st common) or are boosters truly random?

They do match. Print runs are just as noticeable online as in paper.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";156782413]Why does Ulamog get more minions than the other Eldrazi?[/QUOTE]

Because he's less special, obviously.

 

[Toxi]

Fun ROE fact- there are only 100 commons instead of 101. Why is this? It's because the two common Eldrazi each appear an extra time on one of the two sheets, making them more common than the rest of the cards at the rarity.

Huh, that's a really good way to make the theme of the set more prominent.

 

[Firemind]

Lost the third round for the second time while I was 2-0 up. I'm starting to dislike the new prize system.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Lost the third round for the second time while I was 2-0 up. I'm starting to dislike the new prize system.

Why would you deserve more of a prize for losing to the draft pod winner than the guy who also lost to him and also went 2-1? Just because your loss happened in round three? The 6-2-2-2 system is by far the most correct.

 

[Firemind]

Because it personally affected me. Duh.

 

[charlequin]

so defensive

Well, I mean, the justification for AVR is basically that the angel crap pandered to a specific kind of casual player, the brute-force-dumb constructed cards were dominant enough in Standard (and rare enough) that people needed to crack a lot to get copies, and the interest from those two groups overwhelmed the fact that it's the worst-designed set since Prophecy.

It mostly just chaps my ass that he won't admit just how widespread the bad parts were. Draft was awful, sure, but it was also an incredibly stupid set for constructed. Some success with the angel theme and a few individual cool cards doesn't make up for all the rest.

It was a great boon to the standard and modern environements, it appealed to the casual market and it sold gangbusters. Not every set has to be for the hardcore crowd.

In Standard AVR gave us Cavern of Souls, miracles.gif and all kinds of bone-stupid and unstrategic critters. In Commander it produced Griselbanned and obnoxious nonsense like Sigarda and Deadeye Navigator. I mean, opinions can vary on this a lot more than on the draft format, but I didn't find it a positive contributor anywhere.

And it was designed as a flavor first set that gave casual fans something they've been asking for pretty much since day one - angels remain one of the most popular tribe, as we can see from the next FtV.

For me, the problem is that none of the set's bad parts are inevitable results of the angel theme -- instead, they're the result of rushed design, a bad lead developer, and problematic mechanical decisions. Taking advantage of the appeal of a popular creature type is something you can do without being anything like as terrible as AVR -- DTK is a perfect demonstration of that.

 

[Jhriad]

Sitting around waiting for my first prerelease. I need caffeine.