Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege

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Yeef said:
The problem is, they're likely to have multiple leylines to ensure they hit them in the opening hand, so you'll need multiple wipe aways. I think it makes more sense to just find a damage spell that doesn't target than it is to put in removal for the leylines. Something like Exanguinate.
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You're going to be able to reuse every card in the deck infinitely with elixir. The match ends when one player exiles every other blue card to force of will or they run out of win conditions to put on the stack.
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";160159204]You're going to be able to reuse every card in the deck infinitely with elixir. The match ends when one player exiles every other blue card to force of will or they run out of win conditions to put on the stack.[/QUOTE]Leyline of the Void.

Eventually the meta will just shift to all-leylines and no oone will do anything!
 
charlequin said:
You just... durdle until you get a Paladin, play a bunch of 0-mana cantrips, and then win with Grapeshot?
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Or Monk tokens. Muddle the Mixture finds Puresteel. Mox Opal allows you to potentially go off turn 1. I'd imagine the deck mulligans pretty aggressively.
 
I think Splinter Twin is dumb and should be banned, but they should've done it immediately and not have waited for several years. Two card infinite combos are dumb. At least Splinter Twin should've been "1, T;" instead of just "T;"

Likewise, I think Amulet of Vigor is a dumb card that is too easily abused and limits the kinds of cards / lands they can print.

I also personally think the Cascade > Living End interaction is dumb and they should either get rid of the cheap Cascade cards or just errata Living End with a 'when cast from your hand'-clause.

But hey, I'm still fairly new to the format, so maybe this is something I'll just have to get used to. I just don't really like decks that primarily revolve around a single two-card combo to win in a single turn. Yeah sure, 'hold up removal' and 'put in hate', but in these specific cases (Maybe not so much Living End, but you get my point) the game becomes 'Does he have the combo up and do I have the answer in my hand right now?' vs. actually playing an interesting game of Magic.
 
I'm really partial to Muddle, because Heartbeat/Weird Harvest was the last deck I played before taking a 4-5 year break from Magic, and that deck just abused Transmute
 
Tiemen said:
Yeah sure, 'hold up removal' and 'put in hate', but in these specific cases (Maybe not so much Living End, but you get my point) the game becomes 'Does he have the combo up and do I have the answer in my hand right now?' vs. actually playing an interesting game of Magic.
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And when you don't have the answer in your hand, you go, "how do I make him think I have the answer in hand when I really don't". That sounds like a great and interesting game of Magic to me.

When playing my UR Twin deck, the best matches I have had, by far, were against someone piloting a Goryo's Vengeance deck. Great stuff.
 
Yeah, playing against inexperienced players who are piloting Twin is actually that super obnoxious flavor of Magic where it is all about who "has it." Playing against good players piloting Twin becomes a really interesting game of chicken.
 
Man, both of the Magic TV hosts at PT Dragons went 8-1-1 in Standard. Step up your limited games, Cheon and Wrapter.

Brad Nelson was the #1 Standard performer. Step up your limited game, son!


My favorite players don't take limited seriously enough :-(

Adrian Sullivan made top 8 with a 6-2-2 deck.

The two top Sultai Whip players both used my favorite tech of two Ashiok in the board.
 
ElyrionX said:
Lol Twin again?

It's not getting banned, kids. Get over it.

I love UR Twin.
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I bet you that it is. Not now, not tomorrow, but in the next 3-4 years, I think you'll see at least part of it draw a ban.
 
SigmasonicX said:
The story of how Surrak punched a dragon and then punched a snitch. Odd that they specify that Surrak uses no weapons when his art depicts him with ninja claws (assuming he's holding animal horns from prey, not weapons). Also, Atarka speaks.
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HCCzSpm.png
 
I could see it being an accident, but only because lifting a scry land like that is a thing he's done a lot in games that weren't on camera and nearly unloseable.

That said, one time I tried to cast a Cranial Plating for two mana on consecutive turns when an opponent had a Thalia out entirely by accident. I was the most embarassed ever at how scummy it looked.
 
divisionbyzorro said:
Apparently Felipe's Validivia's response to the cheating accusation is to say "I don't know what happened; it was a brain fart. A total accident."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnt3zQ0oz7Q

I can't buy that
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You accidentally draw too many cards. You don't accidentally flip an already played and tapped land over face down and then proceed to put it into your hand. It's obviously a practiced move that he has done before. It could have been accidental in that he didn't mean to use his practiced cheating skills on camera but that's about as far as it goes. Get fucked Felipe.
 
ultron87 said:
I could see it being an accident, but only because lifting a scry land like that is a thing he's done a lot in games that weren't on camera and nearly unloseable.

That said, one time I tried to cast a Cranial Plating for two mana on consecutive turns when an opponent had a Thalia out entirely by accident. I was the most embarassed ever at how scummy it looked.
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Sure, but in your case there's an unusual effect that adjusts your normal line of play. Here, there's a wrath, so he picks up his land? I can't understand how the brain can autopilot to flip a land upside down, add it to your hand, and keep playing.
 
divisionbyzorro said:
Sure, but in your case there's an unusual effect that adjusts your normal line of play. Here, there's a wrath, so he picks up his land? I can't understand how the brain can autopilot to flip a land upside down, add it to your hand, and keep playing.
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Oh yeah definitely. This one is a million times more suspicious since picking up a land is something you almost never do (outside of Gush and the Amulet deck), especially after a wrath. It's like, if you accidentally shovel it into your graveyard with your creatures? Understandable. Flip it over and put it into your hand? *skeptical look*

Just felt like sharing a story of how I'm bad for some reason. Lol.
 
ElyrionX said:
And when you don't have the answer in your hand, you go, "how do I make him think I have the answer in hand when I really don't". That sounds like a great and interesting game of Magic to me.

When playing my UR Twin deck, the best matches I have had, by far, were against someone piloting a Goryo's Vengeance deck. Great stuff.
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Plenty of interesting games can be had with UR Control after Twin is banned. The "sitting here does nothing looking intimidating" strategy rarely works since eventually they'll either kill you with the creatures and burn, get enough counters to play through removal, or clique and see you have nothing then kill you the following turn. Definitely nowhere near as skill intensive as pod was either so only the very inexperienced players will jam twin asap and potentially get 2-for-1d... or just win because the opponent wasn't holding the narrow amount of hate that answers a 1/4 that taps down a land.
 
ElyrionX said:
And when you don't have the answer in your hand, you go, "how do I make him think I have the answer in hand when I really don't". That sounds like a great and interesting game of Magic to me.
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Sure, that's a way to look at it and I can somewhat agree, but I do not believe that such a thing continues to be interesting for very long vs. Splinter Twin and Amulet of Vigor specifically. Bluffing won't win you a lot of games against any sort of experienced player and I don't think it makes for a very viable, compelling or enjoyable experience in the long run and as the format becomes more popular. I remain of the opinion that Splinter Twin and Amulet of Vigor are not healthy for the format. The problem with banning them now is that they have been in the format for too long and they only 'recently' banned Pod (Which I also considered a problem card - for different reasons than Twin of course - that they 'left unchecked' for much too long.) and would receive tons of backlash for banning two more key pieces so quickly afterwards.
 
Yeef said:
Because that means that they'd have to avoid printing cards like that ever again, even though they're fine in Standard. It's better to ban the problem card than it is to ban the cards it works with. It'd be like banning the fetches because Deathrite Shaman is too good with them.
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ironmang said:
I wouldn't have a problem with W/R twin existing if there was a way to ban current blue flash creatures that combo with twin and keep from printing them in the future. My biggest problem with U/R Twin is that it's the best overall deck and really has no bad matchups. Postboard any deck that seems problematic can be shut down when Twin turns into UR Moon Control.
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It's not like as if limiting/restricting Blue Creature that has Flash and untap target creature is limiting design at all, right? I mean, both can still exist, but it's in the mixture of the two where the problem lay. It's like telling video game designers that they can have guns and they can have swords as weapons but they can't have Gun Swords.

Again, I know next to nothing about modern as a relatively new player, but it seems that Splinter twin is broken because the way the Flash+Tap/Untap work with the combo. If it's not broken with either one by itself but with both in synergy, then why not just stop the overlap? It means Twin can still exist, yes, but the whole "I drop it during your end step, then swing for infinity on my turn" gets nerfed.

Considering R&D hasn't made any creatures like Deciever/Pestermite since New Phyrexia from what I see, it's not like they've been really using that as an idea.
 
So I just spent an evening writing a goldfishing simulator for my morphmantiflayer deck to check my mana works (and pretty much the entire RDW matchup, assuming the game is decided by T3).

It gave me some insight into things I hadn't thought about - for example, although my mana is pretty decent over all, there's a good chance I won't be able to drop Deathmist Raptor on T3 thanks to 2 tapped land 1 untapped land hands meaning I can't always get both a 2-drop and a 3-drop.

Turns out I have a 75% chance of being able to make a T2 play against RDW post-sideboard, consisting of 35% chance of getting Circle of Flame out, 25% chance of Caryatid, and 15% for a Wayfinder chump blocker. And this is with barebones mulligans (I didn't make the simulator aggressively mulligan to Circle of Flame). Could be worse.
 
Current standard decks are Esper control, RDW, R/W aggro, and W/U Heroic. I enjoy Esper the most but I think I'll try the Bant Heroic out. I tried Jeskai Heroic, but the mana base is too difficult.
 
I'm playing a slight variation on the RG Deck that made it to the TOP 8. Letting go of 1x Stormbreath, 1x Thunderbreak Regent, and 1x Surrak, The Hunt Caller for 2x Shaman of the Great Hunt which has great synergy with the 4x Rabblemasters, the Rattleclaws, Elvish Mystics, Heir of the Ws, etc + 1x Xenagos, the Reveler for some mana fixing, hedge against control and also has awesome synergy with Shaman of GH and his draw ability.

Sideboard remains similar, swapped out 2x Xenagos for 2x Nissa and added a Feed the Clan for additional guarantees vs. Mono Red.
 
Etrian Oddity said:
Oh dear god, now everyone on MTGO is netdecking U/B control. Four out of five opponents today.
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UB control is not as good as people think.

Top 8 UB player's standard records:

Ohlschwager - 7-2-1
Yasooka - 7-2-1
Sullivan - 6-2-2

They made it into the top 8 by smashing their drafts.

Paul Cheon and PV did really well, and Wrapter did well with Esper, but that's about it. It's fine, but the Abzan decks were still the biggest force in the top tables.
 
kirblar said:
Esper is legit. UB is not. The issue is that coverage called Esper UB.
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I don't think that deck is splashing for anything but Ojutai though. That's basically just UB.

I beat Control with my secret tech (which is just "cast Cloudform and peck them to death")
 
Angry Grimace said:
I don't think that deck is splashing for anything but Ojutai though. That's basically just UB.

I beat Control with my secret tech (which is just "cast Cloudform and peck them to death")
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Pure U/B has very few ways to close out a game, and it doesn't have access to the absurd dragon cards (Counterspell and Tribute to Hunger) that really, really help the Esper deck.
 
So I think once I get the Wratpers I want the deck to look like this:

Sultai Dredge

Creatures(27):
  • 4 Satyr Wayfinder
  • 4 Sylvan Caryatid
  • 4 Den Protector
  • 4 Deathmist Raptor
  • 4 Courser of Kruphix
  • 4 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
  • 1 Sidisi, Undead Visier
  • 1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
  • 1 Hornet Queen

Spells(8):
  • 4 Thoughtseize
  • 4 Murderous Cut

Enchantments(2):
  • 2 Whip of Erebos

23 lands

Sideboard(15):
  • 2 Stratus Dancer
  • 3 Disdainful Stroke
  • 1 Treasure Cruise
  • 1 Dragonlord Silumgar
  • 3 Bile Blight
  • 1 Crux of Fate
  • 2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
  • 2 Sultai Charm
 
I need a playset of Thunderbreak Regents. It's imperative I not get knocked out of top 8s at Game Day this time around. No fucking around with brews. I'm gonna go in with Gw Devotion and ruin my opponent's expectations on finishing a full 3, or even 2 games each round.
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";160314007]My current Sultai list I'm messing with:

Sultai Dredge

Creatures(26):
  • 4 Satyr Wayfinder
  • 4 Sylvan Caryatid
  • 3 Den Protector
  • 4 Courser of Kruphix
  • 4 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
  • 1 Sidisi, Undead Visier
  • 1 Torrent Elemental
  • 1 Dragonlord Silumgar
  • 1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
  • 2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
  • 1 Hornet Queen

Spells(9):
  • 3 Thoughtseize
  • 2 Hero's Downfall
  • 4 Murderous Cut

Enchantments(2):
  • 2 Whip of Erebos

Land(23):
  • 4 Opulent Palace
  • 3 Llanowar Wastes
  • 2 Yavimaya Coast
  • 1 Temple of Mystery
  • 3 Temple of Malady
  • 3 Polluted Delta
  • 1 Evolving Wilds
  • 2 Swamp
  • 2 Forest
  • 1 Island
  • 1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon

Sideboard(15):
  • 2 Stratus Dancer
  • 1 Negate
  • 2 Disdainful Stroke
  • 1 Treasure Cruise
  • 1 Thoughtseize
  • 3 Bile Blight
  • 1 Crux of Fate
  • 2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
  • 2 Sultai Charm

Couple issues I'm running into:
  1. Not sure if Torrent Elemental is better than Icefall Regent. Regent is better with Haven and Elemental is better with my delve cards. But if I'm gonna cut Delve cards post board against control, Torrent Elemental is less of a win button. I think on offense and defense they wind up around even.
  2. I wanna run Deathmists so I can run 4 Den Protectors, but the cuts are just so hard to make. I could use some advice here. The obvious cuts are Tasigurs, but goddamn I love that card.
  3. Sidisi Undead Visier might just be not a great card. It always gets you the card you need and it blocks for days, but Den Protector is probably just better. I don't think it's efficient enough, which is weird to say. And I love tutor effects more than anything. I keep cutting them. The effect is so insane with whip, though...
[/QUOTE]

Sidisi2 and Den Protector are fucking impossible to deal with once you get both going. You want more of both.

I think you're holding onto cards that aren't independently great like Silumgar and Torrent Elemental. Even Hornet Queen is probably sideboard material.
 
Angry Grimace said:
Sidisi2 and Den Protector are fucking impossible to deal with once you get both going. You want more of both.

I think you're holding onto cards that aren't independently great like Silumgar and Torrent Elemental. Even Hornet Queen is probably sideboard material.
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Maybe a spread like this?

Creatures(27):
  • 4 Satyr Wayfinder
  • 4 Sylvan Caryatid
  • 4 Den Protector
  • 2 Deathmist Raptor
  • 4 Courser of Kruphix
  • 4 Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
  • 2 Sidisi, Undead Visier
  • 1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
  • 1 Silumgar, the Drifting Death
  • 1 Hornet Queen

Spells(10):
  • 3 Thoughtseize
  • 2 Whip of Erebos
  • 3 Murderous Cut
  • 2 Hero's Downfall

23 lands
 
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