"God's Beard!"
Member
It's the lack of Sphinx's Revs and Advent of the Wurms.
There's so many decks right now, but they almost all play out the same way.
Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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It's the lack of Sphinx's Revs and Advent of the Wurms.
There's so many decks right now, but they almost all play out the same way.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";161284390]God, Tarmogoyf is too fucking expensive. I wanna play BUG, but fuck goyfs.
Is it too much to ask to play a deck with Clique and Abrupt Decay and not have to cost two grand?[/QUOTE]
I remember thinking that it can't go much higher than $100 when MM1 released. That it's double that now is fucking absurd.
Is it too much to ask to play a deck with Clique and Abrupt Decay and not have to cost two grand?[/QUOTE]
I remember thinking that it can't go much higher than $100 when MM1 released. That it's double that now is fucking absurd.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
LaserBuddha
Member
Now the question is do I buy a third Ojutai to make the Esper Dragons deck and wreck face, or stick with my Mardu Dragons....
200 makes for a pretty epic speculation in hindsight.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I found it: he sold 218 for about 2500 bucks. There's a pic but I'm on my phone.
elrechazado
Banned
I just opened up my second booster pack of khans (started playing three weeks ago) and got a foil wooded foothills. Looking it up, this is really rare and or expensive? What should I do with it? What type of deck is it so good for?
Clearly I have a lot to learn about the game since I have no idea why this is so good.
Clearly I have a lot to learn about the game since I have no idea why this is so good.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Being able to "fix" your mana by getting the color you need is everything when it comes to deckbuilding. So the reason it's so good is because rare lands like Wooded Foothills make it easier to play more than one color in a deck because you can cast your cards on time more consistently. So every red and green deck wants a full four of these in almost every case.
On top of that, there are two very relevant reasons why fetchlands(that let you "fetch" a land from your deck) are better than other rare lands:
1. With Courser of Kruphix out, you can shuffle away the bad cards you see on top of your library if you have a fetchland available. This gives you a random shot at getting a more important card based on the situation.
2. There are cards with the ability "delve" that lower their cost by removing cards from your graveyard. Fetches are a more or less "free" way of filling up your graveyard if you play with delve cards.
These extra functions of fetchlands vs other lands get even more important in older formats, making fetchlands the most powerful lands ever printed. Their value is inevitably going to go up over time, but honestly selling your foil as a new player to get the cards you want isn't a bad idea.
It's a very good card, because it allows you to choose between "fetching" one of two types of mana, so it allows your to "fix" your mana as you need it. Playing a G/R deck and you pulled 2 red mana, a wooded foothills but also drew two 1G creatures? No problem, the wooded foothills allows you to go get a forest. It gives you choice, which far outstrips the negative of losing a single life in 98% of circumstances.
The other reason is that it thins your deck, you play this card for nothing but -1 life, and then you discard it and fetch a land out of your deck, this makes your deck two cards thinner meaning that you are more likely to pull the good card in there which will win you the game. This is a somewhat problematic argument, and there are people who argue this is a mathematical fallacy but everyone still does it anyway.
elrechazado
Banned
Thanks guys, very interesting and helpful.
Since you're new you might also be asking, why isn't this card also good/better/etc? (It's a question I asked when new, which wasn't so long ago)
The reason why the fetch land is much much better is that it doesn't come in tapped, so despite the fact that these lands allow you to tap for one of two mana on any given turn, coming in tapped is a huge disadvantage because it basically puts you a turn behind. If you play it on turn two, you've exhausted your one land drop and on turn two you've still only got the one mana from the land you played on the previous turn.
They're fantastic to play on turn one when you don't have a single one drop but their utility drops dramatically thereafter compared to other lands. It's still a good land, depending, but nothing compared to a fetchland.
The reason why the fetch land is much much better is that it doesn't come in tapped, so despite the fact that these lands allow you to tap for one of two mana on any given turn, coming in tapped is a huge disadvantage because it basically puts you a turn behind. If you play it on turn two, you've exhausted your one land drop and on turn two you've still only got the one mana from the land you played on the previous turn.
They're fantastic to play on turn one when you don't have a single one drop but their utility drops dramatically thereafter compared to other lands. It's still a good land, depending, but nothing compared to a fetchland.
"God's Beard!"
Member
This is a whole new subject, but the mathematical fallacy is related to deckbuilding. Putting 8 fetchlands in a mono-red deck is probably going to lose you more games to life loss than the thinning will ever win you games due to the negligible card advantage.
However, in a deck that already wants fetches(almost literally anything playing 2+ colors), fetching in a situation where you need a certain draw and the shuffle/life loss/actual act of fetching are irrelevant, cracking the fetchland is always the mathematically correct play.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";161361448]Being able to "fix" your mana by getting the color you need is everything when it comes to deckbuilding. So the reason it's so good is because rare lands like Wooded Foothills make it easier to play more than one color in a deck because you can cast your cards on time more consistently. So every red and green deck wants a full four of these in almost every case.
On top of that, there are two very relevant reasons why fetchlands(that let you "fetch" a land from your deck) are better than other rare lands:
1. With Courser of Kruphix out, you can shuffle away the bad cards you see on top of your library if you have a fetchland available. This gives you a random shot at getting a more important card based on the situation.
2. There are cards with the ability "delve" that lower their cost by removing cards from your graveyard. Fetches are a more or less "free" way of filling up your graveyard if you play with delve cards.
These extra functions of fetchlands vs other lands get even more important in older formats, making fetchlands the most powerful lands ever printed. Their value is inevitably going to go up over time, but honestly selling your foil as a new player to get the cards you want isn't a bad idea.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if fetchlands count as the most powerful lands ever printed since that's only even arguable when your deck also has ABU duals or shock lands.
On top of that, there are two very relevant reasons why fetchlands(that let you "fetch" a land from your deck) are better than other rare lands:
1. With Courser of Kruphix out, you can shuffle away the bad cards you see on top of your library if you have a fetchland available. This gives you a random shot at getting a more important card based on the situation.
2. There are cards with the ability "delve" that lower their cost by removing cards from your graveyard. Fetches are a more or less "free" way of filling up your graveyard if you play with delve cards.
These extra functions of fetchlands vs other lands get even more important in older formats, making fetchlands the most powerful lands ever printed. Their value is inevitably going to go up over time, but honestly selling your foil as a new player to get the cards you want isn't a bad idea.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if fetchlands count as the most powerful lands ever printed since that's only even arguable when your deck also has ABU duals or shock lands.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
OH IS THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY, FIGHTING OVER LANDS?
#TeamTruDuals
#TeamTruDuals
acheron_xl
Member
Urza's Saga rare cycle is the best, duh.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Regardless of which lands are the "best," I have a particular affinity for the Shadowmoor filterlands. They don't get the respect they deserve.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
So Esper Dragons is going to be the new Mono Red at FNM, eh? At least I had a good Matchup vs. Mono Red. G/R Aggro/Dragons is what I'm playing, so I'm probs boned in the new meta.
I'm waiting for them to get reprinted. The Eventide ones, especially, are too expensive relative to other lands.
I'm also a big fan of the check lands.
At least the OG duals have actual land names; taiga, tundra, savannah, bayou, plateau, badlands etc.
Hallowed Fountain is just a fountain, Steam Vents are a series of vents. My favourite one is Watery Grave. It's a wet grave so it produces blue and back mana. Who came up with these names? :lol
acheron_xl
Member
Of all the cards in the game, I personally struggle the most with naming lands. Especially, I imagine, if you don't want to tie them to a specific in-world location in the event they're reprinted.
The only thing I could dig up on our early impressions of Otujai. Lol oh Grimace.
And man were we all high on Temur Sarkhan. Maybe he haven't found a home yet, but it's been a let down so far.
phazedplasma
Member
Probably not because its waaaay more expensive
"God's Beard!"
Member
And yet those cards exist. The flexibility and utility of a fetchland is incomparable to any other cycle of land. There are decks where Razorverge Thicket is better than Temple Garden, but Tundra is never more important than Flooded Strand.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
My meta is SUPER competitive; tons of guys playing at PPTQs, PTQs, Opens, GPs, etc religiously. A lot of them play test together, so whatever the strongest deck is, will make a strong appearance. It's fun and bad at the same time.
The mana for him isn't great, right? Maybe next block it will be better and he'll be a surprise breakout.
"God's Beard!"
Member
The bigger problem is, why play Sarkhan when Stormbreath is better against Abzan?
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
What do you mean by mana isn't great? Temur mana is really good, just extremely painful.
I thought I read that somewhere, thought it was here even. I don't know, I'm not a standard wizard right now (been too busy concentrating on making silly Modern decks). I think he's a good card, and I'm surprised people aren't forcing him.
SigmasonicX
Member
The big problem, from what I can tell, is that red/green better supports ramping and aggro right now, and Sarkhan doesn't fit well into either strategy. He works better in a more controlling deck, and black/blue has that archetype to itself right now.
I was pretty bullish on DTK on the whole and was very wrong. I'm not positive I posted specifically about Ojutai but that wasn't at all what I expected. About Sarkhan, I really want to make him work in a control shell, but the colors really aren't in his favor there. I'd like a reliable board wipe to pull the trigger, but the only way I've gotten that is going 4-5 color. Then you run into both Sarkhan and standard board wipes are all 5 drops.
SigmasonicX
Member
So apparently a lot of people were actually fooled by this, judging from Blogatog. Even ignoring that bringing back mana burn makes no sense, the article itself is nonsensical and full of odd mistakes like referring to Magic 2010 as Magic2010.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
In fairness, everyone else missed it too (I bought Ojutai AFTER Pro Tour DTK for half of what it costs now and I think I wrote a post here a few weeks back where I said Ojutai is in retrospect just dumb OP. He's a 5/4 Hexproof Flying free Anticipate for freakin' 5 mana.
The problem is that the deck he's good in only vaguely wants the effect he produces. A deck that would really want Sarkhan 4 is a deck that wants to play Stormbreath, Icefall Regent, Thunderbreak Regent. But they made him cost the same as two of those cards, and the same as the version of his own card he shares a type with. To wit, I've been playing him since Day 1 and my constructed rating on MTGO has fallen by like a 100 points in the last week as the meta evolved to make that deck solidly Tier 2. Despite Mono Red winning the PT, I've been seeing less and less of it (which is bad since its a favorable matchup for a Temur Midrange thing) and lots more of Whip decks and Control decks (both unfavorable matchups).
"God's Beard!"
Member
I just hope they let everything rotate. I wanna see people build decks without Coursers or Downfalls or Thoughtseizes or Rabblemasters. It's gonna be wild.
phazedplasma
Member
I bought a set of ojutais at 18 thinking i was getting hosed. Dat price spike @___@
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";161427772]I just hope they let everything rotate. I wanna see people build decks without Coursers or Downfalls or Thoughtseizes or Rabblemasters. It's gonna be wild.[/QUOTE]
The only one of those cards I see getting a reprint is Downfall. Its a generic name for a generic toolbox effect.
The only one of those cards I see getting a reprint is Downfall. Its a generic name for a generic toolbox effect.
I actually tried to trade for Otujai when she was still at $10 but found no one willing to trade. The ones I have I was fortunate enough to pull. It's like people forgot (semi)hexproof was super good.
What I'm more surprised is the price of Dragonlord Silumgar. It's usually just a sb card and only in U/B/w control decks. It should be around $5.
What I'm more surprised is the price of Dragonlord Silumgar. It's usually just a sb card and only in U/B/w control decks. It should be around $5.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Control cards always expensive. I can only fathom its that the players who like that type of deck want to pay more for it?
Sometimes the price of MTG cards is virtually just random.
I've somehow pulled 4 Sarkhan Unbroken across MTGO drafts and paper ones. 0 Narsets and just one Dragonlord (Atarka). Its weird.
Also, here you go a (probably bad) Modern deck with Ojutai in it:
Scornful Sprites - IQ 1st Place
Posted by Jeff Hoogland
CREATURES (13)
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Restoration Angel
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
SPELLS (23)
3 Remand
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Cryptic Command
2 Spell Snare
4 Path to Exile
2 Valorous Stance
3 Anticipate
3 Silumgar's Scorn
LAND (24)
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Mutavault
1 Polluted Delta
1 Mystic Gate
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
2 Seachrome Coast
4 Island
2 Plains
SIDEBOARD (15)
2 Stony Silence
2 Disenchant
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
1 Flashfreeze
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Spellskite
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Aven Mindcensor
Sometimes the price of MTG cards is virtually just random.
I've somehow pulled 4 Sarkhan Unbroken across MTGO drafts and paper ones. 0 Narsets and just one Dragonlord (Atarka). Its weird.
Also, here you go a (probably bad) Modern deck with Ojutai in it:
Scornful Sprites - IQ 1st Place
Posted by Jeff Hoogland
CREATURES (13)
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Restoration Angel
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
SPELLS (23)
3 Remand
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Cryptic Command
2 Spell Snare
4 Path to Exile
2 Valorous Stance
3 Anticipate
3 Silumgar's Scorn
LAND (24)
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Mutavault
1 Polluted Delta
1 Mystic Gate
2 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
2 Seachrome Coast
4 Island
2 Plains
SIDEBOARD (15)
2 Stony Silence
2 Disenchant
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Dispel
1 Celestial Purge
1 Flashfreeze
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Spellskite
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Aven Mindcensor
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I still say calling it "Esper" is being generous. Its a UB deck with a super light splash for one dude.
They should call it Ojutai UB but Esper rolls off the tongue better
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah it definitely sounds like the difficulties in doing DFCs have shifted with their new printing tech.
"God's Beard!"
Member
So is looking at your opponent's hand cheating? I always thought that protecting that information was part of the game, but I've been told that that's cheating. I mean, is it really my fault if my opponent(or his teammates at a team event) don't guard their hands? Sometimes I can see their hand in their glasses, too.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";161450506]So is looking at your opponent's hand cheating? I always thought that protecting that information was part of the game, but I've been told that that's cheating. I mean, is it really my fault if my opponent(or his teammates at a team event) don't guard their hands? Sometimes I can see their hand in their glasses, too.[/QUOTE]
Going out of your way to see it is cheating. So you can't sit up in your chair to get an angle to see it or lean in trying to read the cards in a reflection. But if your opponent is just absentmindedly holding them out where you can see them you can look and don't have to tell them.
From the MTR: "Players must not actively attempt to gain information hidden from them, but are not required to inform opponents who are accidentally revealing hidden information."
Going out of your way to see it is cheating. So you can't sit up in your chair to get an angle to see it or lean in trying to read the cards in a reflection. But if your opponent is just absentmindedly holding them out where you can see them you can look and don't have to tell them.
From the MTR: "Players must not actively attempt to gain information hidden from them, but are not required to inform opponents who are accidentally revealing hidden information."
Scythesurge
Member
I want that Hoogland Faeries deck to be good so much, but like Grimace said it's probably bad lol.
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