A curse could make you stronger but more evil.
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Magic: The Gathering |OT3| Enchantment Under the Siege
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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A curse could make you stronger but more evil.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Think of it like a werewolf curse. Its making him stronger but corrupting his mana alignment
SigmasonicX
Member
The story mentioned that Garruk's senses have become weaker due to his curse.
His senses for hunting probably, sure. Stuff like smell, and hearing, and sight. But how about curse-influenced magic sensing, like how he figured out where Jace was? And it made him bigger and stronger, despite his physical senses being deteriorated.
What I'm saying is Garruk is a cheating cunt. He's like a US police officer: power tripping, abusive and killing everyone who's black a spark.
At least Sarkhan has a good reason to be mental. Speaking of Sarkhan, someone mentioned they're going back in time with Khans of Tarkir. Does this mean we're going to see the origin story of Sarkhan?
At least Sarkhan has a good reason to be mental. Speaking of Sarkhan, someone mentioned they're going back in time with Khans of Tarkir. Does this mean we're going to see the origin story of Sarkhan?
"God's Beard!"
Member
Kiora + Courser + Scrylands + Read the Bones + Liliana Vess + Wall of Mulch
"God's Beard!"
Member
Doing all this block+M15 deckbuilding has shown me how much these guys really are pushing their new weaker removal philosophy from that recent article.
Non rotating, maindeckable 1-2-mana removal in Theros block and M15:
Of these, there are only three solid ones:
No edicts, no Doom Blades. With no shocklands, Chained is a slightly awkward turn-2 play, but the upside is higher.
At 3-mana, what are the best removal?
At higher mana?
There is also no maindeck-playable 2-mana counter spell right now.
So what does this mean for rotation, compared to RTR where you knew you had cards like Ultimate Price, Abrupt Decay, Dreadbore and Devour Flesh going into the new set? Wizards has hinted at the possibility of 2-mana gold removal in Khans, specifically Terminate and Lightning Helix.
With no other comparable cards in the format, Terminate could be massively format warping. The Jund/Dega-type decks would have an insanely better removal suite than the others. Without Terminate, it's possible efficient cards like Brimaz that naturally dodge almost all the removal in the format start becoming more and more popular.
Additionally, if enemy manlands or some other tapped dual turns out to be the rare land in Khans, multicolor decks are going to have to really plan out the efficiency of their cards to keep pace with what will become the blistering speed or card advantage of the mono-red and mono-green decks, respectively.
Of course, we have little idea of what the setup of Khans looks like, but I'm predicting a lot of midrange decks getting run over by aggro, and almost no control at all.
Non rotating, maindeckable 1-2-mana removal in Theros block and M15:
- Ulcerate
- Bile Blight
- Lightning Strike
- Magma Jet
- Deicide(maybe)
- Chained to the Rocks
- Last Breath
Of these, there are only three solid ones:
- Bile Blight
- Lightning Strike
- Last Breath
No edicts, no Doom Blades. With no shocklands, Chained is a slightly awkward turn-2 play, but the upside is higher.
At 3-mana, what are the best removal?
- Hero's Downfall
- Drown in Sorrow
- Anger of the Gods
- Banishing Light
At higher mana?
- Silence the Believers
- AEtherspouts
- Fated Retribution
There is also no maindeck-playable 2-mana counter spell right now.
So what does this mean for rotation, compared to RTR where you knew you had cards like Ultimate Price, Abrupt Decay, Dreadbore and Devour Flesh going into the new set? Wizards has hinted at the possibility of 2-mana gold removal in Khans, specifically Terminate and Lightning Helix.
With no other comparable cards in the format, Terminate could be massively format warping. The Jund/Dega-type decks would have an insanely better removal suite than the others. Without Terminate, it's possible efficient cards like Brimaz that naturally dodge almost all the removal in the format start becoming more and more popular.
Additionally, if enemy manlands or some other tapped dual turns out to be the rare land in Khans, multicolor decks are going to have to really plan out the efficiency of their cards to keep pace with what will become the blistering speed or card advantage of the mono-red and mono-green decks, respectively.
Of course, we have little idea of what the setup of Khans looks like, but I'm predicting a lot of midrange decks getting run over by aggro, and almost no control at all.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=71424
Anyone got SB experience?
Reading Owern's stuff- swapping Zombies in for Underworld Connections makes complete sense in the G/W - Monsters matchups, but isn't what I thought of initially.
Anyone got SB experience?
Reading Owern's stuff- swapping Zombies in for Underworld Connections makes complete sense in the G/W - Monsters matchups, but isn't what I thought of initially.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";126364217]Doing all this block+M15 deckbuilding has shown me how much these guys really are pushing their new weaker removal philosophy from that recent article.
Non rotating, maindeckable 1-2-mana removal in Theros block and M15:
Of these, there are only three solid ones:
No edicts, no Doom Blades. With no shocklands, Chained is a slightly awkward turn-2 play, but the upside is higher.
At 3-mana, what are the best removal?
At higher mana?
There is also no maindeck-playable 2-mana counter spell right now.
So what does this mean for rotation, compared to RTR where you knew you had cards like Ultimate Price, Abrupt Decay, Dreadbore and Devour Flesh going into the new set? Wizards has hinted at the possibility of 2-mana gold removal in Khans, specifically Terminate and Lightning Helix.
With no other comparable cards in the format, Terminate could be massively format warping. The Jund/Dega-type decks would have an insanely better removal suite than the others. Without Terminate, it's possible efficient cards like Brimaz that naturally dodge almost all the removal in the format start becoming more and more popular.
Additionally, if enemy manlands or some other tapped dual turns out to be the rare land in Khans, multicolor decks are going to have to really plan out the efficiency of their cards to keep pace with what will become the blistering speed or card advantage of the mono-red and mono-green decks, respectively.
Of course, we have little idea of what the setup of Khans looks like, but I'm predicting a lot of midrange decks getting run over by aggro, and almost no control at all.[/QUOTE]
UGH. This makes me so depressed. To me, magic is at its worst when its just "bash creature x into creature y" If this next set falls into the new players don't like their spells not resolving ie no efficient counters, we find it boring when there isnt interactivity ie no combo, I might have to take break from the game for a while and just play EDH exclusively. I already have one foot out the door with this current standard and every person playing some variant of monoblack.
Non rotating, maindeckable 1-2-mana removal in Theros block and M15:
- Ulcerate
- Bile Blight
- Lightning Strike
- Magma Jet
- Deicide(maybe)
- Chained to the Rocks
- Last Breath
Of these, there are only three solid ones:
- Bile Blight
- Lightning Strike
- Last Breath
No edicts, no Doom Blades. With no shocklands, Chained is a slightly awkward turn-2 play, but the upside is higher.
At 3-mana, what are the best removal?
- Hero's Downfall
- Drown in Sorrow
- Anger of the Gods
- Banishing Light
At higher mana?
- Silence the Believers
- AEtherspouts
- Fated Retribution
There is also no maindeck-playable 2-mana counter spell right now.
So what does this mean for rotation, compared to RTR where you knew you had cards like Ultimate Price, Abrupt Decay, Dreadbore and Devour Flesh going into the new set? Wizards has hinted at the possibility of 2-mana gold removal in Khans, specifically Terminate and Lightning Helix.
With no other comparable cards in the format, Terminate could be massively format warping. The Jund/Dega-type decks would have an insanely better removal suite than the others. Without Terminate, it's possible efficient cards like Brimaz that naturally dodge almost all the removal in the format start becoming more and more popular.
Additionally, if enemy manlands or some other tapped dual turns out to be the rare land in Khans, multicolor decks are going to have to really plan out the efficiency of their cards to keep pace with what will become the blistering speed or card advantage of the mono-red and mono-green decks, respectively.
Of course, we have little idea of what the setup of Khans looks like, but I'm predicting a lot of midrange decks getting run over by aggro, and almost no control at all.[/QUOTE]
UGH. This makes me so depressed. To me, magic is at its worst when its just "bash creature x into creature y" If this next set falls into the new players don't like their spells not resolving ie no efficient counters, we find it boring when there isnt interactivity ie no combo, I might have to take break from the game for a while and just play EDH exclusively. I already have one foot out the door with this current standard and every person playing some variant of monoblack.
How "efficient" are we talking? Right now, after rotation, you'll have Dissolve and Dissipate (and Cancel) for "catch-all" counters and Nullify, Negate and Swan Song for conditional counters. We're sure to get some more counterspells in Khans as well, just don't expect Counterspell or Mana Leak.
I think you mean dissipate.
"God's Beard!"
Member
One thing that bothers me is that if there's no untapped duals, it's basically impossible to run Elvish Mystic in a three-color deck unless you run mana confluence, even if you're playing a wedge with the full 8 painlands. That's why I've been testing Wall of Mulch.
You really need 2-mana spells to make a control deck. When all your shit is in the 3-drop slot like Dissolve, Banishing Light and Hero's Downfall, that's a real problem. That's a turn away from death against a good aggro deck.
I'm not asking for Counterspell. But at least a Remand or Miscalculation-level spell.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";126431450]One thing that bothers me is that if there's no untapped duals, it's basically impossible to run Elvish Mystic in a three-color deck unless you run mana confluence, even if you're playing a wedge with the full 8 painlands. That's why I've been testing Wall of Mulch.
You really need 2-mana spells to make a control deck. When all your shit is in the 3-drop slot like Dissolve, Banishing Light and Hero's Downfall, that's a real problem. That's a turn away from death against a good aggro deck.
I'm not asking for Counterspell. But at least a Remand or Miscalculation-level spell.[/QUOTE]
Remand is definitely more powerful than Counterspell, and Miscalculation is close to it.
You really need 2-mana spells to make a control deck. When all your shit is in the 3-drop slot like Dissolve, Banishing Light and Hero's Downfall, that's a real problem. That's a turn away from death against a good aggro deck.
I'm not asking for Counterspell. But at least a Remand or Miscalculation-level spell.[/QUOTE]
Remand is definitely more powerful than Counterspell, and Miscalculation is close to it.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";126431450]One thing that bothers me is that if there's no untapped duals, it's basically impossible to run Elvish Mystic in a three-color deck unless you run mana confluence, even if you're playing a wedge with the full 8 painlands. That's why I've been testing Wall of Mulch.
You really need 2-mana spells to make a control deck. When all your shit is in the 3-drop slot like Dissolve, Banishing Light and Hero's Downfall, that's a real problem. That's a turn away from death against a good aggro deck.
I'm not asking for Counterspell. But at least a Remand or Miscalculation-level spell.[/QUOTE]
Why not have Remand be standard legal at this point? It's not competing with Mana Leak and other power counters.
You really need 2-mana spells to make a control deck. When all your shit is in the 3-drop slot like Dissolve, Banishing Light and Hero's Downfall, that's a real problem. That's a turn away from death against a good aggro deck.
I'm not asking for Counterspell. But at least a Remand or Miscalculation-level spell.[/QUOTE]
Why not have Remand be standard legal at this point? It's not competing with Mana Leak and other power counters.
"God's Beard!"
Member
In what world is Remand better than counterspell? That doesn't make any sense to me.
pluginbaby121
Member
I have recently decided to get back into magic and haven't played since onslaught.My question is what would be the best set to buy from and would getting a premade deck help and if so what is a good one to get?
M15 is probably not a bad jumping in point.
Khans comes out in a few weeks.
Theros will be legal for a year-plus.
This Theros Event Deck is one of the newest pre-made Wizards deck, but I'm not sure how good it is. You might want to pick a different one up, or wait for whatever the next one is
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1329
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";126432602]In what world is Remand better than counterspell? That doesn't make any sense to me.[/QUOTE]
It's easier to cast, has the same amount of tempo that Counterspell has in most stages of the game, and draws you a card.
The only situation where Counterspell is better is when its late in the game and the opponent has the mana to cast the spell a second time without giving up any opportunities to use other mana effects/cast other spells.
It's easier to cast, has the same amount of tempo that Counterspell has in most stages of the game, and draws you a card.
The only situation where Counterspell is better is when its late in the game and the opponent has the mana to cast the spell a second time without giving up any opportunities to use other mana effects/cast other spells.
"God's Beard!"
Member
When there are tempo decks with turn-4 infinite combos in Standard you might be right.
Premade decks are pretty fun. I would try the clash packs -- I haven't tried the M15 Clash Pack, but it doesn't seem too bad.
It's close to Mana Leak, in that it's an easier to cast Counterspell for a while, but it cycles late when it's not as useful. And Mana Leak is better than Counterspell.
Depends on your intention and your personality. If you're a competitive person by nature, I'd suggest forego buying any of the pre-constructed decks and just look at Standard decks online and build them by buying singles. I bought a box of Theros boosters for casual play earlier this year as well as a deckbuilder's toolkit and some other boosters. It was mostly a waste of money as I eventually decided that I wanted to play more seriously and resorted to building a deck I liked via singles.
You guyz value Counterspell too high.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I've been looking at Shards standard a bit since that's a pretty comparable mana base to what we'll be having after rotation. It doesn't seem like the 3-color decks are afraid to run the full playset of the tri-color taplands, but they also didn't have to rely on temples like we do.
I can cut 3 temples for every 2 taplands and add a basic forest, but I can't get above 12 untapped green sources unless I cut AEtherspouts or start counting Sylvan Caryatids as 0.5 mana sources like Karsten recommends. I'm not sure how much I value scry effects and fragile mana sources. I prefer not to count them if possible.
But this conversation is based around viability of control going into the next standard. It's possible that we get another RTR, but right now the options are uniquely terrible.
I can cut 3 temples for every 2 taplands and add a basic forest, but I can't get above 12 untapped green sources unless I cut AEtherspouts or start counting Sylvan Caryatids as 0.5 mana sources like Karsten recommends. I'm not sure how much I value scry effects and fragile mana sources. I prefer not to count them if possible.
But this conversation is based around viability of control going into the next standard. It's possible that we get another RTR, but right now the options are uniquely terrible.
Remember, we're talking about Standard. Counterspell is stronger in a vacuum, but miscalculation into Courser of Kruphix would warp the format more than anything Counterspell could do.
Oh hell. The FNM Brain Maggot is even grosser.
BUG Control ended up being the best deck in Theros Block, no?
It just didn't look a thing like traditional control. People will always bitch about "control being bad" because they are bad players who need the overpowered cards since they can't win with marginal ones, because they're bad.
(They're right to can 4cc Wraths, btw.)
Wow.
Oh god why
oh jeez :s
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";126435737]I've been looking at Shards standard a bit since that's a pretty comparable mana base to what we'll be having after rotation. It doesn't seem like the 3-color decks are afraid to run the full playset of the tri-color taplands, but they also didn't have to rely on temples like we do.[/QUOTE]
I don't think we'll only have those tri-color taplands as fixing from Khans. They really recently said this regarding Standard mana bases:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/ld/developing-predators-2014-08-08
I don't think Painlands count as "more or less the power level of Shocklands".
I don't think we'll only have those tri-color taplands as fixing from Khans. They really recently said this regarding Standard mana bases:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/ld/developing-predators-2014-08-08
I don't think Painlands count as "more or less the power level of Shocklands".
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
That brain maggot is not that bad guys.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";126435737]
But this conversation is based around viability of control going into the next standard. It's possible that we get another RTR, but right now the options are uniquely terrible.[/QUOTE]
So thought experiment, what would an efficient counterspell that would make control viable without also being too powerful for tempo?
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";126435737]
But this conversation is based around viability of control going into the next standard. It's possible that we get another RTR, but right now the options are uniquely terrible.[/QUOTE]
So thought experiment, what would an efficient counterspell that would make control viable without also being too powerful for tempo?
Yeah, it's really not OK lol.
In the current standard (ie, no fetchlands, Farseek, Arbor Elf...), they are the same. Hell, Matt Sperling played 3 Foundries 4 Forges in his PT Deck, because he thought that the always untapped nature of Forge was better than Foundry.
Control's already going to be viable. BUG control is one of the top decks in block constructed, mostly because of Sylvan Caryatid and Courser of Kruphix. The removal we have isn't that bad, either -- it's just not enough to deal with every single threat the opponent plays, so control can't be entirely reactive anymore.
"God's Beard!"
Member
ThLunarian
Member
1U, counter target spell. Skip your next combat step. You can't cast spells until the end of your next turn.
"God's Beard!"
Member
UU
As an additional cost to cast XXXX, remove your hand from the game, then return all lands you control to your hand.
Choose two:
Counter target noncreature spell. Draw a card.
or
Target creature spell enters the battlefield under your control. Draw a card.
or
Tap target permanent. It doesn't untap during its owner's next untap step. Draw a card.
or
Target opponent loses the game. Draw a card.
As an additional cost to cast XXXX, remove your hand from the game, then return all lands you control to your hand.
Choose two:
Counter target noncreature spell. Draw a card.
or
Target creature spell enters the battlefield under your control. Draw a card.
or
Tap target permanent. It doesn't untap during its owner's next untap step. Draw a card.
or
Target opponent loses the game. Draw a card.
This is not a card they want to print.
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