• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Izzet Me; Izzet You? A Love Story

Status
Not open for further replies.
K

Kieli

Member
If someone multiblocks and I don't attack one of the blocking creatures, do I still get damage from that creature?
 
U

ultron87

Member
Kieli said:
If someone multiblocks and I don't attack one of the blocking creatures, do I still get damage from that creature?
Click to expand...

Not sure if this is what you're asking but if they block your attacking creature with two creatures they'll both damage your creature no matter how you decide to divide up the damage between them.
 
K

keeblerdrow

Member
ultron87 said:
Not sure if this is what you're asking but if they block your attacking creature with two creatures they'll both damage your creature no matter how you decide to divide up the damage between them.
Click to expand...

He's coming from YGO. And yeah, all creatures involved in combat deal damage and it all happens at once. You just get to order how the damage is distributed to the blockers, but they all get their shot in.
 
K

Kieli

Member
ultron87 said:
Not sure if this is what you're asking but if they block your attacking creature with two creatures they'll both damage your creature no matter how you decide to divide up the damage between them.
Click to expand...

Yep, thanks! Also, when I choose the order to attack multiple blockers, is the damage assigned one-by-one?

E.g. 8/8 vs. 3/4 (1), 3/2 (2), 2/2 (3).

If I choose to attack and the opponent blocks all 3, then there are essentially 3 combat phases.

Start combat (decide who blocks, who attacks, order of attack, partition damage from attacking creature):

The order I choose is 1 --> 3 --> 2. I choose to assign 3 dmg to (1), 3 dmg to (2), and 2 dmg to (2) before combat initiates (and commit to this).

So phase 1:
8/8 vs. 3/4 (1) --> 5/5, 3/4 (1) dies.

Phase 2:

5/5 vs. 3/2 (2) --> 2/3, 3/2 (2) dies.

Phase 3:

2/3 vs. 2/2 (3) --> 0/1, 2/2 (3) dies.

End combat:

My 8/8 will now be 0/1 until the end of my turn.

keeblerdrow said:
He's coming from YGO. And yeah, all creatures involved in combat deal damage and it all happens at once. You just get to order how the damage is distributed to the blockers, but they all get their shot in.
Click to expand...

Waaaat.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
You shouldn't view assigning/receiving damage as lowering power and toughness, and damage happens all at once, so there wouldn't be phases (except in the case of first/double strike).

In any case, you should stop worrying about multiblocking so much. It doesn't happen very often, and in most cases where it does, I would imagine intuition would suffice.

EDIT: To visualize combat happening all at once, imagine that each creature only gets to make a single attack in a turn. However, your 8/8 is so beefy that it can take out multiple creatures with one swing, like Sauron. At the same time, the creatures it's in combat with are getting their own shots in. It's like in anime when guys will punch each other in the face at the same time.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
Yeah, all the creatures hit each other at once. When you order blockers, you're just deciding which blockers are going to die and which ones are going to survive.

So for example, let's say I have a 5/5 and you block with a 3/4 and a 2/3. No matter how I stack the blocks, my 5/5 is taking 5 damage. I can choose to kill the 3/4 by ordering it first (it takes 4 damage and the other takes 1), or I can choose to kill the 2/3 by ordering it first (it takes 3 damage and the other takes 2). Either way, the leftover damage won't be enough to kill the other creature.

And Sigma is correct; damage does not reduce toughness. Damage just stays "marked" on the creature until the end of the turn. If a creature takes damage equal or greater than its toughness, the creature gets destroyed.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Kieli said:
Yep, thanks! Also, when I choose the order to attack multiple blockers, is the damage assigned one-by-one?

...
Click to expand...

You don't attack creatures. You attack players (or planeswalkers). Imagine it as a game of tower defense, in a way. You send things toward your opponent (or their planeswalker), and they can choose to put things in front of what you sent so they can't reach their tower.

It's Kieli vs Opponent

We are in Kieli's combat step

Kieli declares one 8/8 creature as an attacker, sent toward Opponent.

Opponent blocks with a 3/3, a 1/4 and a 3/2

There are no fast effects

Kieli decides how to distribute 8 points of damage among 9 points of toughness, while the 8/8 takes a total of 7 damage. It all happens at the same time. Kieli decides to deal 3 to the 3/3, 3 to the 3/2 and 2 to the 1/4. As there is only one creature from Kieli, it will take all 7 points.

The 1/4 survives with 2 damage on it until the end of the turn, but still has 4 toughness. It will die if it takes 2 or more damage. The 8/8 survives with 7 damage on it, but still has 8 toughness. It will die if it takes 1 or more damage.​
 
K

kirblar

Member
Damage is different now since M10 - it's set up like trample. You pick the order in which the extra damage cascades by ordering which blocker gets damage first/second/third- you no longer get to do 1-1-1-1-1 pokes to set up for a sweeper.

Lets you save the ones in the back by buffing the butt of the one in front.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Kieli said:
Yep, thanks! Also, when I choose the order to attack multiple blockers, is the damage assigned one-by-one?

E.g. 8/8 vs. 3/4 (1), 3/2 (2), 2/2 (3).

If I choose to attack and the opponent blocks all 3, then there are essentially 3 combat phases.

Start combat (decide who blocks, who attacks, order of attack, partition damage from attacking creature):

The order I choose is 1 --> 3 --> 2. I choose to assign 3 dmg to (1), 3 dmg to (2), and 2 dmg to (2) before combat initiates (and commit to this).

So phase 1:
8/8 vs. 3/4 (1) --> 5/5, 3/4 (1) dies.

Phase 2:

5/5 vs. 3/2 (2) --> 2/3, 3/2 (2) dies.

Phase 3:

2/3 vs. 2/2 (3) --> 0/1, 2/2 (3) dies.

End combat:

My 8/8 will now be 0/1 until the end of my turn.



Waaaat.
Click to expand...

OK, i'm going to clip from Reid Duke's beginner article on Combat

Beginning of Combat Phase

The active player has exited the main phase, so he or she cannot play lands or cast spells other than instants right now. This is the last chance to cast a spell like Crippling Chill if you wanted to tap a creature to stop it from attacking.

Declare Attackers Step

First, the active player chooses his or her attackers and taps them. At this point, there's no turning back. Abilities like raid abilities have been triggered even if the attacking creature(s) leave the battlefield. This is the point where the nonactive player might cast a flash creature to ambush the opponent, after attackers have been declared.

Declare Blockers Step

First, the nonactive player chooses his or her blockers. Once blockers are declared, the active player has priority, and this is where he or she might use a combat trick like Awaken the Bear. Once the active player has done everything he or she wants to do, the nonactive player will take actions such as using his or her own combat tricks or removal spells like Kill Shot. If the nonactive player takes one or more actions, the active player can then take more actions, until both players decide to do nothing.

Combat Damage Step

Combat damage is dealt. Life totals are adjusted and creatures that die are put in the graveyard. After that, any abilities that trigger upon damage being dealt or creatures dying will happen.

End of Combat Phase

One final chance to take actions before combat ends. In some rare cases, you might want to wait until the last possible moment to use your Kill Shot, even though it means allowing the creature to deal damage first.
Click to expand...

In regards to your example:
When a player chooses to block with multiple creatures, the attacking player chooses an order. The attacking creature must assign lethal damage to each creature before it can move on to the next. "Lethal Damage" means that over the course of the turn, it has accumulated damage equal to it's toughness. For example, lets say I have a 3/3. You would need to assign 3 points of damage to it for it to be lethal damage. However, lets say that this 3/3 took 2 damage earlier in the turn from a sorcery. Now, I would only have to assign a single point of damage to it for it to be "Lethal" damage. There are also creatures that have a keyword called "Deathtouch". This ability means that any amount of damage they deal is considered "Lethal" damage. In the case of our 3/3 blocker, a creature with Deathtouch would only have to assign a single point of damage to it.
 
K

Kieli

Member
bigkrev said:
OK, i'm going to clip from Reid Duke's beginner article on Combat



In regards to your example:
When a player chooses to block with multiple creatures, the attacking player chooses an order. The attacking creature must assign lethal damage to each creature before it can move on to the next. "Lethal Damage" means that over the course of the turn, it has accumulated damage equal to it's toughness. For example, lets say I have a 3/3. You would need to assign 3 points of damage to it for it to be lethal damage. However, lets say that this 3/3 took 2 damage earlier in the turn from a sorcery. Now, I would only have to assign a single point of damage to it for it to be "Lethal" damage. There are also creatures that have a keyword called "Deathtouch". This ability means that any amount of damage they deal is considered "Lethal" damage. In the case of our 3/3 blocker, a creature with Deathtouch would only have to assign a single point of damage to it.
Click to expand...

I presume first-strike and deathtouch can stack?

Thank guys, it makes a lot more sense now. Someone answered my multi-blocker question before, but I didn't realize you get damage from every blocker (not just ones you choose to atk).
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Kieli said:
I presume first-strike and deathtouch can stack?

Thank guys, it makes a lot more sense now. Someone answered my multi-blocker question before, but I didn't realize you get damage from every blocker (not just ones you choose to atk).
Click to expand...

Yeah, first strike and deathtouch means that no creature can touch it in combat in most cases.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Kieli said:
I presume first-strike and deathtouch can stack?

Thank guys, it makes a lot more sense now. Someone answered my multi-blocker question before, but I didn't realize you get damage from every blocker (not just ones you choose to atk).
Click to expand...

Yep! There is a reason you don't see First Strike, Deathtouch creatures at lower rarity, because they are near impossible to deal with in Limited.

If I attack you with a 2/2 First Strike and Death Touch, and you block with a 3/3 and a 4/4, I get to assign 1 point to each of First Strike, and kill both before they do any damage to my creature.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Current Cockatrice playgroup:
  • Ultron87
  • WWind
  • HeebyGB
  • phazedplasma
  • G.ZZZ
  • Jhriad
  • Truman
  • Roy_Burns
  • Bandini
  • duxstar
  • SourShoes
  • Onpoint (Need to register)
  • Kirblar
  • sinuosity (manipulate, you got to register bro)
 
O

OnPoint

Member
WanderingWind said:
Current Cockatrice playgroup:
  • Ultron87
  • WWind
  • HeebyGB
  • phazedplasma
  • G.ZZZ
  • Jhriad
  • Truman
  • Roy_Burns
  • Bandini
  • duxstar
  • SourShoes
  • Onpoint (Need to register)
  • Kirblar
  • sinuosity (manipulate, you got to register bro)
Click to expand...

Register? Not sure what you mean. I'll have to come aboard later tonight and figure it out.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Kieli said:
I presume first-strike and deathtouch can stack?

Thank guys, it makes a lot more sense now. Someone answered my multi-blocker question before, but I didn't realize you get damage from every blocker (not just ones you choose to atk).
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that this isn't how it works. You attack the player. The defending player then decides which of their creatures, if any, go into combat, not you.
 
D

duxstar

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";171199889]GGs Dux, didn't get to show off my Sibsig Muckdraggers -> Burnt Offering troll combos lol[/QUOTE]

Haha thanks for dealing with me I really hate losing even when it's test decks lol, I'm wondering if I'm missing any creatures/cards that would help the deck.

I've noticed a trend that every deck I want to play wants to include archangel of tithes, card is just bonkers in alot of matchups and seems to be worth playing even in 2 color decks.

Later today I'll build a couple more decks, most will probably include green or white lol. I have no clue how to build control at all though.
 
EYEL1NER

EYEL1NER

Member
I really want to go to the prerelease this weekend but I am not so sure how comfortable I would be. I've never drafted but have read up on it and want to try it at some point. Sealed decks though? It's been over a year since I started playing MtG but have yet to build a single deck. I've read some deckbuilding tips and read the info for sealed buidling on the prerelease site but I don't know about it. It would be my first event ever and my first time dealing with a competitive enviroment. I'm sure that a lot of stores have friendly players and I've seen tons of people online say that newcomers are welcome at stores but it would definitely put me very far outside my comfort zone. Thing is, I still would like to at least try an organized event, and it seems like I could score some cool stuff.
I guess I've got a couple days to decide. I wanted to go to the Fate and DTK prerelease but didn't know about one until it was too late and was out-of-country when the other occurred.
If I go, I will have some hefty anxiety to deal with before and at the event. If I don't go, I'll regret it as soon as it has ended and I'll be kicking myself for not doing it.
 
Y

Yeef

Member
Pre-releases are the best place to get your feet wet in organized play. They typiclaly have the largest turnouts and have a much higher percentage of casual players than most limited events. Also, since the sets are knew, they're not 'solved' so everyone is on near equal footing when it comes to figuring out what to play.

Also, unlike most events, at prereleases, players are encouraged to help one another with deckbuilding. If you have any friends that play Magic, consider finding a Two-headed Giant prerelease and playing as a team.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Oh right, prerelease is this week. The Mothership articles used to mention this at the bottom, but they don't anymore, so I keep forgetting until later in the week.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Its really weird to me that the MTG panel at SDCC is on the same day as the prerelease.
 
Y

Yeef

Member
Angry Grimace said:
Its really weird to me that the MTG panel at SDCC is on the same day as the prerelease.
Click to expand...
It's really weird to me that we still don't have a date on Duels when the set is just around the corner. In the past the video games always came out before the prerelease; now we don't even have a date other than "July."
 
EYEL1NER

EYEL1NER

Member
Yeef said:
Pre-releases are the best place to get your feet wet in organized play. They typiclaly have the largest turnouts and have a much higher percentage of casual players than most limited events. Also, since the sets are knew, they're not 'solved' so everyone is on near equal footing when it comes to figuring out what to play.

Also, unlike most events, at prereleases, players are encouraged to help one another with deckbuilding. If you have any friends that play Magic, consider finding a Two-headed Giant prerelease and playing as a team.
Click to expand...
I wish I had been paying attention to spoilers and info leaks for this set like I did for Fate and Dragons so I could have had at least a small idea of what some of the cards were doing. I've been going through looking at the new cards all morning. The people I play MtG with are a couple thousand miles at the way, so no one to do 2HG with.
I'll keep reading on what cards are in the set and constructing 40 card decks and maybe end up going.
I haven't been to a single game night for anything at this store (have been reading the rulebook in my new copy of Star Wars Armada so I could try taking that in) but I have spoken to the owner at length about various things every time I go in and he is a friendly-enough dude. I'll go in tomorrow and ask what they are doing and how much and then take it from there. He posted on the store's FB page earlier that the first event will be midnight after FNM, which I don't know that I would participate in if I was doing the prerelease.
 
Joe Molotov

Joe Molotov

Member
Are the flipwalkers possible promo cards at the Prerelease? I was thinking about getting black to try to get a promo Lili, but I don't even know if that's possible.

Still, a Titan of Erebos or a Languish wouldn't be bad either, I'll probably take black anyway in at least one prerelease. I've signed up for two.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
They are possible promos.

Pretty much every promo ends up being a huge bomb unless its FRF and you get Rally the Ancestors.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Joe Molotov said:
Are the flipwalkers possible promo cards at the Prerelease? I was thinking about getting black to try to get a promo Lili, but I don't even know if that's possible.

Still, a Titan of Erebos or a Languish wouldn't be bad either, I'll probably take black anyway in at least one prerelease. I've signed up for two.
Click to expand...
Probably not, but it's possible.
 
Y

Yeef

Member
EYEL1NER said:
I wish I had been paying attention to spoilers and info leaks for this set like I did for Fate and Dragons so I could have had at least a small idea of what some of the cards were doing. I've been going through looking at the new cards all morning. The people I play MtG with are a couple thousand miles at the way, so no one to do 2HG with.
I'll keep reading on what cards are in the set and constructing 40 card decks and maybe end up going.
I haven't been to a single game night for anything at this store (have been reading the rulebook in my new copy of Star Wars Armada so I could try taking that in) but I have spoken to the owner at length about various things every time I go in and he is a friendly-enough dude. I'll go in tomorrow and ask what they are doing and how much and then take it from there. He posted on the store's FB page earlier that the first event will be midnight after FNM, which I don't know that I would participate in if I was doing the prerelease.
Click to expand...
You can see all the cards here: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/card-image-gallery/magicorigins

A couple of pointers:
  • Limited is all about creatures, most decks are going to want 14 or more creatures.
  • Try to stick to two colors if you can. Prereleases make this easier becaus eyou get a 'seeded' pack with only cards of the color you selected, so after that it's just a matter of choosing a second color.
  • Make sure you have a decent mana curve. Most of the cards in your deck should cost between 2 and 4 mana. For cards out of that range it's okay to run a few, but don't run too many. (The exception here is if a lot of your cheap cards ramp you into your more expensive cards; cards like Leaf Glider and Nissa's Pilgrimage
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Meh I got Blood-Chin Fanatic (which is a good card in a dedicated Warriors deck, which had no real support in DTK). Twice. In FRF I got Supplant Form and all 6 packs had Temur rares and I owned face. KTK I barely knew I how to do Sealed and got owned. Promo was Duneblast, but I sucked at deckbuilding in limited at that point.

1 and 2 drops are always the most overrated cards in limited in my experience.
 
EYEL1NER

EYEL1NER

Member
Yeef said:
You can see all the cards here: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/card-image-gallery/magicorigins

A couple of pointers:
  • Limited is all about creatures, most decks are going to want 14 or more creatures.
  • Try to stick to two colors if you can. Prereleases make this easier becaus eyou get a 'seeded' pack with only cards of the color you selected, so after that it's just a matter of choosing a second color.
  • Make sure you have a decent mana curve. Most of the cards in your deck should cost between 2 and 4 mana. For cards out of that range it's okay to run a few, but don't run too many. (The exception here is if a lot of your cheap cards ramp you into your more expensive cards; cards like Leaf Glider and Nissa's Pilgrimage
Click to expand...
Thanks. Yeah, those two cards definitely look like green cards.
I was thinking of going Black/White or Black/Green. I don't really do too well with Black decks and really favor Green and Red mechanics (I like Green's beefy creatures and liked Red's mechanics in Tarkir), but I like the art on a lot of the Black cards (especially the Liliana art) and am a sucker for the Rule of Cool.
 
P

pelicansurf

Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
I think I'll go for black in pre-release for the best value rates (I'm a pro, duh) and try to pair it up with green or sumthing. Nissa being the most expensive card of the set is pretty sad compared to every other green rare/mythic being worth nothing.
 
P

platypotamus

Member
Yeef said:
It's really weird to me that we still don't have a date on Duels when the set is just around the corner. In the past the video games always came out before the prerelease; now we don't even have a date other than "July."
Click to expand...

I was actually coming here to ask about that. I'm ready to start dividing my digital CCG time between Hearthstone and Duels
 
I

inthrall

Member
What rogue legacy decks are out there that are comparable in cost to a modern deck? (up to $200 USD) Looking for something I can take to a tournament and not feel like eviscerating myself afterwards
 
Y

Yeef

Member
The Technomancer said:
Heroscape comparisons?

Now you have my attention

I somehow managed to not know anything about this game

EDIT: Can someone tell me how a spindown is any different from a regular d20 if you're rolling it properly?
Click to expand...
It's not; the issue is that it's fairly easy for someone to not roll 'properly' whether intentionally or not.
More importantly, I think Arena of the Planeswalkers might have spoiled some future card names and art. Lots of the cards in the game have the same names and respective artwork as in Magic proper, but some, like Despise, show unused artwork which probably hints at reprints coming soon. Other cards like "Dark Harvest" and "Paths Revealed" don't exist yet in Magic proper and might be from Battle for Zendikar.
 
F

Firemind

Member
inthrall said:
What rogue legacy decks are out there that are comparable in cost to a modern deck? (up to $200 USD) Looking for something I can take to a tournament and not feel like eviscerating myself afterwards
Click to expand...
if you already have a modern affinity shell, legacy affinity is a thing.

or if you happen to have force of wills and true-name nemises lying around...

also burn

sorry. those are the only decks i can think of that don't play duals, or a playset of wastelands, rishadan ports, gaea's cradles or city of traitors. legacy has a fun manabase...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

PlayStation Plus Game Catalog for December: Sonic Frontiers, Forspoken, Rabbids: Party of Legends, WRC Generations and more
News Platform 2
59
3K
Codes 208 replied
Coming to Game Pass: Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, Crash Team Racing Nitro-Fueled, and More
Platform
39
2K
Tarnpanzer replied
Witchfire - Coming to Steam Early Access 20 Sept 2024 (Dark Fantasy RPG Shooter)
2
58
4K
Assaulty replied
Dragon's Dogma II |🐉| You done fucked it up, Capcom
Opinion Analysis 2 3
110
10K
Chiggs replied
  • Locked
Metaphor: ReFantazio Details Story, World, Tribes, Characters, English Screenshots
Hype
2
1K
Fake replied
Top Bottom