Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Izzet Me; Izzet You? A Love Story

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edit:
pseudo-graveyard decks in ORI are pretty fun:

sarkeezyklqvr.png


blindrocket said:
Here's what I need specifically for some decks I want to finish out:

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I've got a bunch of that stuff, but you need to update your list >:-|
 
kirblar said:
But that's to be expected when your leadership consists of ex-PT guys who got rejected by R&D and your economic team is led by a CS guy.
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(Ignoring the non sequitur about libertarianism) They're scared to death about running afoul of gambling laws, which is preventing them from using a number of "fixes." What I'm hoping, desperately hoping, is that these recent changes aren't last-ditch, desperate attempts to meet a year-over-year growth expectation. It seems that every year they make changes to squeeze more value out of the system, with no benefits added back in, and the cynic in me thinks that the changes are all based on trying to demonstrate growth without actually growing.

I'm still tooling around with different ideas. The problem is that every idea I can come up with that I think could work for both the players and Hasbro ends up putting the bot chains out of business. I have to wonder if they're concerned about some amount of legal blowback, no matter how much the TOS might technically protect them.
 
divisionbyzorro said:
(Ignoring the non sequitur about libertarianism) They're scared to death about running afoul of gambling laws, which is preventing them from using a number of "fixes." What I'm hoping, desperately hoping, is that these recent changes aren't last-ditch, desperate attempts to meet a year-over-year growth expectation. It seems that every year they make changes to squeeze more value out of the system, with no benefits added back in, and the cynic in me thinks that the changes are all based on trying to demonstrate growth without actually growing.

I'm still tooling around with different ideas. The problem is that every idea I can come up with that I think could work for both the players and Hasbro ends up putting the bot chains out of business. I have to wonder if they're concerned about some amount of legal blowback, no matter how much the TOS might technically protect them.
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Sounds like Games Workshop.
 
All of this makes me glad I never bought in on MTGO. I was going to during Vintage Masters, and I probably did spend like $100-$200 on drafting that set. It was a lot of fun. But watching it crumble the way it is... man, how disappointing.
 
I drafted TTT, BTT, and JBT multiple times per week. I even drafted KTKx3 about once a week. I haven't drafted on MTGO other than Cube since January except once or twice; the value just isn't there. In some ways, it's nice that I can draft while only paying $8 or something like that, since packs are stupidly cheap, but at the same time there just isn't a prize worth playing for and being tied to a computer for three hours.
 
I used to practice for an upcoming tournament, but now, not so much. It's still fun to draft with friends though, especially when drunk. The discussions of what's the best play... priceless. And I don't have to waste petrol and a parking fee to go to a store.

MTGO is still a terrible moneysink though.
 
they should drop MTGO and Magic Duelstone or whatever it's called and make a mutiplayer cube only Magic game. Make your own cube and play it.
 
divisionbyzorro said:
I drafted TTT, BTT, and JBT multiple times per week. I even drafted KTKx3 about once a week. I haven't drafted on MTGO other than Cube since January except once or twice; the value just isn't there. In some ways, it's nice that I can draft while only paying $8 or something like that, since packs are stupidly cheap, but at the same time there just isn't a prize worth playing for and being tied to a computer for three hours.
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There was a time when I played 4-3-2-2's only because I knew that win or loose, I would not play past the first round. I just wanted to draft and move on with my day
 
bigkrev said:
There was a time when I played 4-3-2-2's only because I knew that win or loose, I would not play past the first round. I just wanted to draft and move on with my day
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That's somewhat crazy, yet I completely understand. I love to draft, but it's just not practical for most of us to sit behind a computer for three straight hours to do it. If I have some friends over, I'll draft from dusk 'til dawn, but doing it alone at my desk just doesn't have the same appeal anymore.
 
I had a ridiculous number of drafts on mtgo until I realized I was passing money away because i really think the shuffle is broken, based on my experience with all of the shufflers magic has used in its products (dotp 12 - 15, mtgo)

For example I could predict with frightening accuracy what would happen if I mulled to 6 based on what my first 7 were.

Funny thing is I get called crazy for saying the shufflers is broken. Yet people I know in real life that play magic with me have had the same complaints.

I'm sure I'll hear the same argument here that I've heard 100 times though and yes I know computers can't be truly random and read all about the algorithm they use.

So maybe the shuffler isn't broken but it is so different from what u experience playing magic 3 - 4 nights a week that it has stopped me from ever supporting that side of the business again. Throw in terrible prize support, cards not holding value, people double queuing, and the ability to misclick
Costing you a game are all reasons to stay away from that program forever.
 
Back before the version update and before they increased redemption prices mtgo was actually pretty nice. After initial startup fees it was very easy to "go infinite" in dailies and usually have the option to cash out with the same or more money than total spent. Then 1.8-2 tix packs happened and you actually had to be good and could only play dailies if you didn't want to lose money. They really should be making changes that reward the people who pour money into their program, not punish them.
 
ironmang said:
Back before the version update and before they increased redemption prices mtgo was actually pretty nice. After initial startup fees it was very easy to "go infinite" in dailies and usually have the option to cash out with the same or more money than total spent. Then 1.8-2 tix packs happened and you actually had to be good and could only play dailies if you didn't want to lose money. They really should be making changes that reward the people who pour money into their program, not punish them.
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They're having to nickle/dime players because they're likely hemorrhaging players and can't get new ones to replace them. Since the ones actually playing are the hardest of the hardcore, they're squeezing em for all they got.
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";172628153]The 14 fliers with 2 Thunderclap Wyverns deck in ORI limited is pretty fun.[/QUOTE]

That's just gross. I lost to U/W Fliers at top 8. :(

Btw, the timer drafts in top 8 is so much pressure. I've made plenty of bad picks that I immediately regret due to the time constraints. Definitely need more practice with that because you know, I plan on getting top 8 all the time. *cough*

Irl drafts for life!
 
Well MTGO is the only way I can consistently play due to my work schedule, so I'm sort of hostage to it. I keep praying they give it the overhaul it needs but if they were, wouldn't they have done that by now? The damn thing has been around for 13 years, by this point it should be a behemoth. Discussion boards should be baked in, there should be a system to easily submit decks for feedback from the community, deck building tools should be much more expansive (as should deck/card/player stat tracking), the "classifieds" trade system should have been publicly executed and replaced by something not archaic, it should have a presence on mobile and the list goes on forever. Instead we can't even get a stable client that looks like it was designed within the last decade. I had hoped Hearthstone's success would make the higher-ups at Hasbro realize they were missing out on a giant pile of money but I guess their only response was to repackage Duels. It's a damn shame.
 
$123 on amazon for FTV: Angels. I don't understand why Wizards doesn't print more of these, the demand is obviously there. But no, let's just give a bunch of free money to resellers.
 
Bandini said:
$123 on amazon for FTV: Angels. I don't understand why Wizards doesn't print more of these, the demand is obviously there. But no, let's just give a bunch of free money to resellers.
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"But Bandini, it's not resellers. They're special bonuses to stores to markup as a 'thanks' from Wizards. Because as we all know, a one time 200-300 dollar influx every other year is a great thank you to stores. "
 
Bandini said:
$123 on amazon for FTV: Angels. I don't understand why Wizards doesn't print more of these, the demand is obviously there. But no, let's just give a bunch of free money to resellers.
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You're missing that that is the point of these- it's supposed to be a bonus to LGSes.

I wonder if a Linvala reprint is coming up in Zen II.
 
Bandini said:
$123 on amazon for FTV: Angels. I don't understand why Wizards doesn't print more of these, the demand is obviously there. But no, let's just give a bunch of free money to resellers.
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Well, they only sell them to Physical stores as a "reward" for running tournaments and selling sealed product (which tend to be money loosers for stores), and they fully expect stores to sell it at a mark-up. This isn't a product for tournament players (and considering the way the cards warp, i'd never want to play one of these cards in a tournament), it's for the people who are willing to spend money because they want a new art/foil for their Cube/EDH deck.
 
You know what stores would like better? More money. You know how you make more money? Print more of a product that people are dying to throw their money at you to get. This isn't 1999 still, no matter how much they wish it was. This is just another arm of them being a decade behind the curve.
 
WanderingWind said:
You know what stores would like better? More money. You know how you make more money? Print more of a product that people are dying to throw their money at you to get. This isn't 1999 still, no matter how much they wish it was. This is just another arm of them being a decade behind the curve.
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Are they behind the curve because, like every company, they manufacture exclusive products for San Diego Comic Con that will sell out in seconds?
 
^^^ Exclusive con items =/= limited run sets that people would trip over each other to get in normal LGS ^^^

WanderingWind said:
You know what stores would like better? More money. You know how you make more money? Print more of a product that people are dying to throw their money at you to get. This isn't 1999 still, no matter how much they wish it was. This is just another arm of them being a decade behind the curve.
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Hear hear! This outdated thinking is starting to feel like it's limiting the game.
 
Elves top-eighted Gods of Japan. If I recall correctly, this is the same tournament Abzan Whip originated from back when Khans came out.

Elves list is super fucked, though. 1-of Sylvan Caryatid, Only 3 Dwynen's Elite, Read the Bones for God's sake.
 
bigkrev said:
Are they behind the curve because, like every company, they manufacture exclusive products for San Diego Comic Con that will sell out in seconds?
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Well, yes, actually. But in that regard they're falling victim to the same exact thought process that lead to DC getting mad when the Suicide Squad trailer leaked. Now that same trailer is sitting at a million more views than their actual tent pole franchise's trailer. Makes you wonder how much money they're throwing away by not setting up a paid stream or selling ads for a real time stream. In both cases, withholding product isn't a business model that predates nearly infinite entertainment options. Before, people would wait. Now, they move on.

We all understand this when it comes to things like Hearthstone vs. MTGO. People stopped waiting for MTGO to get better and they moved on. Hearthstone got to 30 million users before Magic did in a fraction of the time because they understand a modern fan-driven ecosystem.
 
The FTV things make me glad / hopeful because they can tank the price of a card like Rolling Earthquake from its ridiculous Portal heights. But the product itself kinda annoys me due to scarcity and the fact that it's foil-only :( They do warp.

PS: I asked earlier, but didn't get an answer (might've been missed). Have any of you ever just gone to a Pro Tour to spectate? If so, what's it like? The Vancouver one is a 20 minute walk from me and I'm curious... but if it's lame, I'm happy to just watch the stream.
 
WanderingWind said:
You know what stores would like better? More money. You know how you make more money? Print more of a product that people are dying to throw their money at you to get. This isn't 1999 still, no matter how much they wish it was. This is just another arm of them being a decade behind the curve.
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This business is never going to be a hyper-profitable one for local stores.

MTGO's same-as-retail pricing isn't the problem- it's their refusal to actually invest resources at all levels (software, management, etc.) that is.
 
Jace's lead-in to Battle for Zendikar. Summary is that Liliana goes to Jace for help with the Chain Veil, but because she's too proud to just ask him, she tries to manipulate him into helping her. But then Gideon just comes up to Jace and asks for his help, and Jace goes with him. Liliana goes tsundere in reaction.

I still think the Vryn origin for Jace is a misdirection. In truth, he's a high school nerd named Jason Bell who was bullied by football players Gary "Wild" and "Giddy" Gideon and had a crush on cheerleader Liliana.
 
Having 11 elves on turn 4 with 1 land is pretty sweet.


  1. Forest, Elvish Mystic
  2. Elvish Mystic, Elvish Mystic
  3. Dwynen's Elite, Dwynen's Elite
  4. Elvish Mystic, Dwynen's Elite, Chord of Calling -> Shaman of the Pack

And then still lost the aggro mirror ^_^
 
kirblar said:
This business is never going to be a hyper-profitable one for local stores.

MTGO's same-as-retail pricing isn't the problem- it's their refusal to actually invest resources at all levels (software, management, etc.) that is.
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Both ideals are born from a pre-Amazon/SCG and Heathstone/online gaming saturated world. Forcing an artificial layer of scarcity is wholly unnecessary, as we've seen with the successes of Modern Masters. The game is popular enough that adding faux scarcity through restricted printings isn't something that is a boon to stores, players or their bottom line. It benefits nobody, but since it's The Way Things Have Been Done, it'll continue to roll.

They're not a bad company, but they're seemingly unable to handle their periods of success. Listen to MaRo and he talks about the cycles of Magic's popularity waxing and waning and the lifespan of players that come in and out of the game. He talks about these things like they're due to the moon's gravitational pull and just a part of the natural order of things.

They haven't really connected those cycles with their own practices. Stuff like the failing to meet basic expectations. Being too slow to adjust to secondary market pricing that allow external companies to exert pressure on their cultivated community. Not paying attention to MTGO's stagnation while saying things like "Hearthstone isn't our competition." And yes, forcing scarcity with their new products, forcing resellers like SCG to take advantage of what is ostensibly WotCs client is what drives people away.

The game brings them back. But imagine a world where they didn't leave in the first place. The money and goodwill they're almost literally throwing away is staggering.
 
I just want a blackborded alternate art foil zodiac dragon. Is that too much to ask?

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";172664750]Elves top-eighted Gods of Japan. If I recall correctly, this is the same tournament Abzan Whip originated from back when Khans came out.

Elves list is super fucked, though. 1-of Sylvan Caryatid, Only 3 Dwynen's Elite, Read the Bones for God's sake.[/QUOTE]
Where are your results then?  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 
 
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";172664750]Elves top-eighted Gods of Japan. If I recall correctly, this is the same tournament Abzan Whip originated from back when Khans came out.

Elves list is super fucked, though. 1-of Sylvan Caryatid, Only 3 Dwynen's Elite, Read the Bones for God's sake.[/QUOTE]

Any link to the lists? Can't seem to find it on google.
 
"I just wanted to say thanks to my playgroup, Face to Face Games for the sweet sleeves and oh yeah, Grimace can eat a dick. GB OUT."
 
WanderingWind said:
You know what stores would like better? More money. You know how you make more money? Print more of a product that people are dying to throw their money at you to get.
Click to expand...
The only reason FTV commands a high price point is because it's so limited. The MSRP (and wholesale prices) are relatively low, so with the huge markup comes huge margins. Selling 10 units at $100 margin is preferable to selling 100 units at a $10 margin, because if you don't manage to sell through it all, you make your money back with fewer unit sales at a higher margin.

From the Vault is specifically designed to be a collector's item. It's all foil reprints, some with new art, but primarily cards that are plenty available already. If FTV had new cards I think it'd be upsetting for it to be so limited, but since it doesn't (and I dislike foils) it doesn't bother me too much.
 
Thank God I paid a reasonable amount of money for FTV: Dragons. And I still felt ripped off because not even half of the cards included new artwork and the foiling process is ugly as sin.
 
Thought this was interesting.

Dave and Buster's VIP IAMA (from the Pokken one linked in Gaming)..

https://www.reddit.com/r/DaveAndBus..._senior_vice_president_of_entertainment_game/

On a related note, I am extremely interested in trying to build a market for collectible card games in the US. To date the only one that's been even remotely successful is DOC. I can't for the life of me figure out why, in a country that is obsessed with Magic: The Gathering and Pokemon and baseball cards we haven't seen coin-op CCG take off like it has in Japan. There, CCG games represent something like 2/3 of all arcade revenues. My only conclusion has been that the content is not relevant in the west. I can't see Animal Kaiser or Mushiking catching on in the U.S. On the other hand, I think a Marvel Universe or Star Wars CCG would be badass. Hopefully you'd give up your DOC addiction if something similar but better came along?
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SigmasonicX said:
Jace's lead-in to Battle for Zendikar. Summary is that Liliana goes to Jace for help with the Chain Veil, but because she's too proud to just ask him, she tries to manipulate him into helping her. But then Gideon just comes up to Jace and asks for his help, and Jace goes with him. Liliana goes tsundere in reaction.

I still think the Vryn origin for Jace is a misdirection. In truth, he's a high school nerd named Jason Bell who was bullied by football players Gary "Wild" and "Giddy" Gideon and had a crush on cheerleader Liliana.
Click to expand...

I like how they go out of their way to make sure you know just how beta Jace is.
 
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