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Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Izzet Me; Izzet You? A Love Story

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W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Don't we always complain about the dread spectre of mono-red at every new Standard? It's always going to be a thing because it's always going to be a decent deck. New Standard is always full of people trying new shit out, half of which is durdly crap and any deck with a consistent manabase (mono colored anything) that can get in quick (red, usually) is going to feast.
 
K

kirblar

Member
WanderingWind said:
Don't we always complain about the dread spectre of mono-red at every new Standard? It's always going to be a thing because it's always going to be a decent deck. New Standard is always full of people trying new shit out, half of which is durdly crap and any deck with a consistent manabase (mono colored anything) that can get in quick (red, usually) is going to feast.
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This "it's always a decent deck" thing is pretty new. It's been shit many, many times in the past.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The reason I think kirblar doesn't like mono red because every iteration of mono red in standard is identical, except instead of when the original Sligh deck came out and it was running hordes of comparatively shitty creatures, they actually just make better and better versions of cards for that deck. I mean, look at Zurgo - he is literally a red 2/2 for R with upside.

They just print the same cards over and over with minor variations on what the cards actually do, its just gotten really noticeable as of the last block or two, especially M15 through now.
 
Z

Zyphos

Neo Member
When would be the best time to jump in to Standard? I know there's a rotation coming up, and I'd rather not spend money building a decent deck that'll be obsolete soon.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Angry Grimace said:
The reason I think kirblar doesn't like mono red because every iteration of mono red in standard is identical, except instead of when the original Sligh deck came out and it was running hordes of comparatively shitty creatures, they actually just make better and better versions of cards for that deck. I mean, look at Zurgo - he is literally a red 2/2 for R with upside.

They just print the same cards over and over with minor variations on what the cards actually do, its just gotten really noticeable as of the last block or two, especially M15 through now.
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Well, for one kirblar doesn't like mono red because kirblar doesn't like anything Magic related.

Two, I'm just pointing out that Sligh started in 94, and there are articles pretty much every year that show that mono red has always been in the mix. I'm sure there may have been off cycles here and there, but it's never been for more than a year, tops.

Third, what you're talking about is across the board for creatures in Magic, not just red. Every color's creatures have been getting incrementally better the longer the game goes. If anything, red has been hit the hardest because of all the colors its the one that counts on spells more than any (blue too, but lol TC/DTT) and they keeping shittier versions of good spells.

Zyphos said:
When would be the best time to jump in to Standard? I know there's a rotation coming up, and I'd rather not spend money building a decent deck that'll be obsolete soon.
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Either right now or in September when Zendikar releases. It's worth pointing out that if that feels too soon for you to jump in, you may want to think about a more lasting format as Standard is only going to be rotating faster and faster from here on out.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
WanderingWind said:
Well, for one kirblar doesn't like mono red because kirblar doesn't like anything Magic related.

Two, I'm just pointing out that Sligh started in 94, and there are articles pretty much every year that show that mono red has always been in the mix. I'm sure there may have been off cycles here and there, but it's never been for more than a year, tops.

Third, what you're talking about is across the board for creatures in Magic, not just red. Every color's creatures have been getting incrementally better the longer the game goes. If anything, red has been hit the hardest because of all the colors its the one that counts on spells more than any (blue too, but lol TC/DTT) and they keeping shittier versions of good spells.
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I guess I think its just a little annoying when that deck that's always around is actually the best deck.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
WanderingWind said:
Well, for one kirblar doesn't like mono red because kirblar doesn't like anything Magic related.
Click to expand...

That's not true, he likes, um... okay I can't remember what he likes, but I'm sure I remember him saying positive things about something!

Angry Grimace said:
The reason I think kirblar doesn't like mono red because every iteration of mono red in standard is identical
Click to expand...

The problem with mono-red from a gameplay perspective is just the flipside of the issue from a design perspective -- the color is limited to super-linear early-game strats, so there's really kind of just one deck, while three other colors have a few different options for how to conceivably build them monocolor. (Mono-blue has the opposite problem, where it only has one deck because counters and draw are just better than all the other mechanics in the game.)
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
In G3 of an Esper Control matchup, I drew 4 Thoughtseizes and 3 Elspeth's. That works pretty well.

As much bitching as there was about Thoughtseize being in Standard again, I'm sure gonna miss that little guy and the way the card made people react when you put a swamp down on turn one.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Did people not see the match between Kentaro Yamamoto and Sam Black? Now that's how you squeak out wins against mono red. He did some brilliant plays that, if he didn't, he would have died the next turn or the turns after. Like being aggressive with his Courser even in the face of dash creatures and destroying a Swiftspear before blockers to deny Sam the ability to tap it to cast Stoke the Flames and not die to the incoming attack. Or the marvelous play of playing Satyr Wayfinder and regrowing Dromoka's Command to not die to the next burn spell. He knew Sam didn't have the finishing blow since he Duressed him and knew Sam had to rely on top decks. He managed to win both games the turn before he would die.

If it was me, I'd have been long dead, along with many others. Kentaro is a boss. Get that platinum finish!
 
K

kirblar

Member
That's not true, he likes, um... okay I can't remember what he likes, but I'm sure I remember him saying positive things about something!
Click to expand...
I think Standard is in a very good spot right now with tons of interesting decks.

This is why I get mad when the most boring, obvious, lowest common denominator deck keeps being intentionally featured on camera.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Ari with the explanation of Mono-Red all over:
Ari Lax ‏@armlx 20m20 minutes ago

Contrary to what @Smdster says new mull rule is horrific. Maximizing nut curves in Constructed just makes games less diverse and interesting

This was one of the huge issues with WoWTCG's free mull. Aggro mirrors were usually curve out fests and someone always won the race.
Click to expand...

Sounds like it became like Hearthstone, where you're looking for the curve-out in your opener at all costs.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
kirblar said:
So they're not actually collecting data on the new mulligan rule. What a farce.
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The guys on "So Many Insane Plays" were pretty harsh on WotC for exactly the same reason a few weeks ago. It's clear WotC cares more about how mulligans "feel" than anything else. Without collecting data, you won't be able to assess the true impact of what the rule did.

Also, doing it at the same time a format rotates is dumb. You should test it against a known format.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
WotC doesn't actually want real data to exist for play/draw/mulligan/win. They don't want tournament aspirants to know how much of their success is out of their hands.
/tinfoilhat
 
S

shrapnelmagnet

Member
Watanabe's 4 Enthralling Victor + 3 Nantuko Husk draft deck should be fun to watch. If they'd fucking show some Magic. I can only stand so much Buehler / BDM / Hagon / Ads in one morning: And they're honestly testing me here.

kirblar said:
So they're not actually collecting data on the new mulligan rule. What a farce.
Click to expand...

Boggling...

EDIT: Holy fuck, it's starting
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
shrapnelmagnet said:
Watanabe's 4 Enthralling Victor + 3 Nantuko Husk draft deck should be fun to watch. If they'd fucking show some Magic. I can only stand so much Buehler / BDM / Hagon / Ads in one morning: And they're honestly testing me here.



Boggling...

EDIT: Holy fuck, it's starting
Click to expand...

Wait, that was his day one draft. Did they replay it? Or did he draft the same deck again?
 
K

kirblar

Member
Forsythe on Twitter:
@mtg_law_etc There isn't enough data at one event for something so "on the edges." Happy for feedback; real data will come from MTGO.
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Officially a charade, though they seem willing to go back if there's an issue.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Actually, the shuffling algorithm is not random. Or was. I'm not sure on the specifics since they're not willing to give them.

In other news, God Emperor Kentaro is alone on top of the mountain!
 
M

Matriox

Member
I considered going to regionals this year but this is a work weekend. At least I've got a PT to watch while I wait for my shift to end.
 
J

Jhriad

Member
Really like the Pact deck and the Sultai deck that they showed before. If I thought that I could get the cards in time I would put together one of those two for Origins Gameday next weekend.
 
K

kirblar

Member
darkside31337 said:
Cool to see Pact do well. I remember when folks said it was a junk mythic... still have no idea how it didn't beat Waste Not.
Click to expand...
60912791.jpg


They HATE downside cards/mechanics.

Pact deck is awesome.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Firemind said:
Actually, the shuffling algorithm is not random. Or was. I'm not sure on the specifics since they're not willing to give them.

In other news, God Emperor Kentaro is alone on top of the mountain!
Click to expand...
It is random.

The shuffler in the client is for generating sample hands. The actual shuffler is an entirely different algorithm on the server side.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Pact deck is indeed playing the full set of 4.

I completely missed that the drain is targeted until I saw it happen in match- holy shit that's so much better than I thought.
 
milkham

milkham

Member
Hello mtg players

I used to play way back in the 90s and have some cards I'd like to sell. what's the best place to look for guidance? It's mostly revised stuff with a few unlimited but I think honestly the only really potentially valuable cards I have are revised dual lands.
 
M

Matriox

Member
milkham said:
Hello mtg players

I used to play way back in the 90s and have some cards I'd like to sell. what's the best place to look for guidance? It's mostly revised stuff with a few unlimited but I think honestly the only really potentially valuable cards I have are revised dual lands.
Click to expand...

If you want to send me a PM about what you have and what you're looking for (edit: Cash wise, I'm aware you are looking to sell for money) I'd be interested. Otherwise I use eBay and sellers walls on Facebook local group to make sales, or if you're looking for a quick offload you can go to websites like Channel Fireball or Starcitygames to drop them into a buy list, they have the price they'll give you on their site.
 
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