Sequence Six
Member
So long as sparks can be transferred and used like potions then they can justify whatever they want.
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Magic: the Gathering |OT4| Izzet Me; Izzet You? A Love Story
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
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charlequin
Banned
Oh, I know they're gonna start reprinting individual cards, I mean that so far they introduce one new PW character every block. I wouldn't be super surprised to see the reprinted PWs in expansions start as soon as BFZ.
They've got 26 total alive, active planeswalkers now. They could probably add two a year for the next decade and not actually run into a problem.
They're not going to "cull the cast" any more than Marvel kills off half the Avengers for good every few years. When someone dies they'll make a big deal of it (which, yes, means you're looking at maybe one pre-existing walker dying in a given year) because they're so heavily invested in marketing the characters.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";163882129]
Isn't the whole point of going to new worlds every year having an infinitely replenishable cast?[/QUOTE]
I mean, they don't want it to be infinitely replenishable cast, they've made it clear by this point that they're essentially borrowing a lot of super-hero story structures with a recurring cast. The problem is that they basically have A-tier and B-tier characters, in terms of importance. They can keep giving B tier characters one or two off cards and then letting them fade away (I'd be surprised if we saw another Vraska quite frankly) but the current A-tier cast is probably about as large as they can go
What I suspect we will see more of is stories that wrap up individual planeswalker's arcs, like what happened with Sarkhan. I will be shocked if we see another Sarkhan card in the next 5 years. Maybe Tears/Fears wrap up Ajani or Liliana's story for a nice long while.
Isn't the whole point of going to new worlds every year having an infinitely replenishable cast?[/QUOTE]
I mean, they don't want it to be infinitely replenishable cast, they've made it clear by this point that they're essentially borrowing a lot of super-hero story structures with a recurring cast. The problem is that they basically have A-tier and B-tier characters, in terms of importance. They can keep giving B tier characters one or two off cards and then letting them fade away (I'd be surprised if we saw another Vraska quite frankly) but the current A-tier cast is probably about as large as they can go
What I suspect we will see more of is stories that wrap up individual planeswalker's arcs, like what happened with Sarkhan. I will be shocked if we see another Sarkhan card in the next 5 years. Maybe Tears/Fears wrap up Ajani or Liliana's story for a nice long while.
"God's Beard!"
Member
His time-inconsistency will drive him mad and Narset puts him down like old yeller.
Narset: Why did you shoot fire at Taigam?
Sarkhan: He was sick.
Narset: Well, you were sick. How come we didn't shoot you?
Sarkhan: That was different.
I don't think they'll make him a villain. But his story is certainly done for a while.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I fucking hate Cryptic Command. I'm gonna replace them with a pair of Grim Lavamancers.
charlequin
Banned
Right, it seems like part of their new story-planning approach is to move away from peeking in on each character's story every three years, and towards small arcs that cut across adjacent blocks. That'd definitely let them play up a set of characters for 2-3 blocks and then pan away from them for a while.
That said, I'm not sure the "core cast" is really incapable of expanding. Right now I'd say it's Ajani, Jace, Liliana, Chandra, Garruk, Gideon, Elspeth, Tezzeret, Sarkhan, Nissa, Bolas, and Sorin. That's twelve characters when they're gonna use 3-4 of them every block. And certainly some of those they can rotate out of prominence for a while (as they've just done with both Elspeth and Sarkhan.)
"God's Beard!"
Member
There we go, made room.
Joe Molotov
Member
We need another Tibalt, just go all in and make him a 1-drop this time.
charlequin
Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";163895080]There we go, made room.[/QUOTE]
Don't step to the kitty.
Don't step to the kitty.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I'll be god damned if I let some fur-man walk free in my town.
Sequence Six
Member
Liliana and Sorin are really the only two walkers I've broadly liked across all incarnations. Considering how poor black legends have been over most of the history of the game I'm a little surprised to realize this.
Wat
Baron Sengir, Volrath, Crovax (okay not white Crovax), Greven il-Vec, Kaervek, Purraj. Black arguably has the best legendary cast pre-mending.
Sorin is like Alucard but instead of father issues he has bff issues. Liliana is trying to lift the Veil curse by killing demons. Ob Nixilis lost his spark, became a demon and is now lusting for revenge. All very interesting.
Sequence Six
Member
I'll give you Kaervek and the Baron; they were effective villains even if they were one note. I'd add Chainer because he's actually multifaceted. But that's about it for me. I feel that black easily has the weakest cast pre- or post-mending.
I like Sorin because he's one of the rare examples of a prominent black character that actually demonstrates a will to uphold good or at least non-awful things for the sake of his own interests. That's not a very high bar but seeing as how most black legends are cartoon villains bent on destruction and poisoning the water hole I take what I can get.
The average based on simulators and spreadsheets appears to be breaking even around $240. If you can buy in at $200-$220 would be the only way I'd recommend it, but mostly if you plan on drafting with friends too.
"God's Beard!"
Member
card sucks
"God's Beard!"
Member
Niv Mizzet looks more like a turtle whose head got stuck in a tulip than a dragon.
What I like about Sorin and Liliana over "traditional" black-aligned characters is exactly the same as you guys -- they have motivations beyond villainy for the sake of villainy.
I like that Liliana's lust for power backfired and she's working her ass off to try and get out from under it. It's 100% black in motivation and it avoids being a cliche.
Sorin has some depth to him, too. The way they're writing characters now is better than it used to be, like the "This is a green character. She lives in the woods and likes animals" way from back when was so bad (though I wouldn't change it).
It'll be interesting to see how they move forward with the storytelling. Obviously we're in for some changes, and hopefully they work in a positive way for the game.
I like that Liliana's lust for power backfired and she's working her ass off to try and get out from under it. It's 100% black in motivation and it avoids being a cliche.
Sorin has some depth to him, too. The way they're writing characters now is better than it used to be, like the "This is a green character. She lives in the woods and likes animals" way from back when was so bad (though I wouldn't change it).
It'll be interesting to see how they move forward with the storytelling. Obviously we're in for some changes, and hopefully they work in a positive way for the game.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Sorin's nowhere close to a villain. He's as neutral as it gets.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I don't really like the Commander set generals. Having these pre-made super powerful creatures explicitly for the format takes the fun out of the deckbuilding process.
Sequence Six
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";163920916]Sorin's nowhere close to a villain. He's as neutral as it gets.[/QUOTE]
That we can say that about him is what makes me happy. For all the diversification they've done of the other colors black too often still feels like it's Snidley Whiplash personified.
That we can say that about him is what makes me happy. For all the diversification they've done of the other colors black too often still feels like it's Snidley Whiplash personified.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";163923835]I don't really like the Commander set generals. Having these pre-made super powerful creatures explicitly for the format takes the fun out of the deckbuilding process.[/QUOTE]
I'm split on it. I feel like they went overboard on a few and made a few crappy ones, but I like that the set has its own stuff to build off. You don't need to. Besides, mono-red EDH decks had no real identity or chance until the recent Daretti deck. I love that they did that.
I'm split on it. I feel like they went overboard on a few and made a few crappy ones, but I like that the set has its own stuff to build off. You don't need to. Besides, mono-red EDH decks had no real identity or chance until the recent Daretti deck. I love that they did that.
But Crovax was one of the good guys before Sorin was.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I mean, its kind of hard? Selfishness is a bit harder to spin as a heroic trait from a human perspective. You can do it, as evidenced by the ways that they've done it, but its more difficult. You can basically do "I'm doing the right thing to save my own skin".
I'm totally open to hearing other ideas for how you do a mono-black hero though
Sequence Six
Member
But we didn't get a card of him until he was already crazy and ready to start munchin' on people. And back then crazy meant black.
Black's more than that. Emphasize the search for knowledge and improvement via self-sacrifice and pragmatism.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
That's Black/Blue then.
SigmasonicX
Member
I preferred this card when I thought Sorin was pinning some guy to the wall way high up, but no, it's just an odd perspective, since you can see Sorin's feet on the ground.
Sequence Six
Member
Seeking knowledge /= automatically blue. Seeking knowledge for innovation and discovery is probably automatically blue. Black is fully capable of diggin' through books if they give up something for it.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Black isn't about sacrifice any more than red is about flipping coins. Black's about selfishness and more precisely, introspection. Black knows what it wants and what it takes to get it quickly, and then does it. It doesn't care about the journey where blue does. If blue's pursuits lead to other discoveries, that's just as great. Black just wants the thing at the end.
Isn't he some sort of mediator on Ravnica, though? That's a hard sell for a push to black.
Isn't he some sort of mediator on Ravnica, though? That's a hard sell for a push to black.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Shut yo mouth!
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Well not just seeking knowledge but seeking self improvement. Seeking personal gain in general is black, seeking to improve oneself is blue
Still beats the other way of killing men. I mean what is he even wearing? A bullet proof vest?
"God's Beard!"
Member
Alternate color-scheme saiyan armor covered by Neo's trenchcoat.
I would so prefer they leave him mono blue rather than put in black. They'd have to do something storywise to splice in another color, and aside from a curse or him going bad -- which have been done -- I don't know how you do it uniquely.
I'd like more if they spliced in other colors lore regularly. Like a white character who is frustrated with a lack of progress and they give into reds impatience. Be creative with it.
Sequence Six
Member
Ah, you're right. I guess I just see that black can have diverse traits, by the designers' own statements, but they're rarely capitalized on. Chainer was fully black but he still had desires, hopes, actual friends, etc. I really do think it only seems difficult because the writers are still too tied to Bant's colors being more "heroic".
Joe Molotov
Member
We were just talking about Jace
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The problem as I see it is that it becomes difficult to do mono-anything color characters that don't feel shallow. Mono-white and mono-green tend to work okay, they're philosophies lend themselves to "all in" personalities, but mono-blue, black and red always end up feeling under-developed (seriously does anyone have any idea what Chandra's personality is beyond "hotheaded"?)
Liliana is honestly the best they've done with an interesting monoblack character in ages. Even Sorin ended up needing to splash for white
Sequence Six
Member
I won't deny that Liliana is more interesting. I just had hope in what they were doing with Sorin.
Chandra is Diet Jaya.
I thought the backstory and flavor of Feldon were awesome. And he's mono red
I wonder where this goes. Please, continue.
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